☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[tezza]

Just dropped by to check on ya.

 

Just hang in there, Petu. I'm having a small wave with emotions and when I have a wave of this kind it is harder for me to participate.

 

It's like the emotions are intense and I remember seeing someone else that was describing emotions coming back like that. I can't remember who, if it was you, I apologize for not remembering all the details. It's hard to remember each one since we all share so many symptoms in common.

 

Hugs!!!

[alex]

thanks everyone, thanks for asking Nar,

I'm still here, not up to writing much at the moment though.  Maybe later

 

It is ok dear Petu;I know the feeling.

I just wanted you to know that I am with you in this difficult journey.

Just take care and be gentle to yourself.

 

Hugs,A.

[mattinsmom]

Keep breathing through those waves. 

 

I'm rooting for you!

[Petunia]

Just hang in there, Petu. I'm having a small wave with emotions and when I have a wave of this kind it is harder for me to participate.

 

It's like the emotions are intense and I remember seeing someone else that was describing emotions coming back like that.

 

 

I almost came back here and wrote more yesterday, but was feeling very vulnerable and scared I would trigger my own emotions by focusing on them (again).

 

For a while, I was instinctively feeling that I was needing to 'allow' old emotions and memories (repressed stuff), to come up and be experienced and be released.  There has been a lot of it.  But it seems to be slowing down now, I feel very weak and 'washed out' from having gone through it though.

 

I'm still feeling like I have lost my 'self', there is nothing left of me, or very little of me that I can identify as being 'who I am'.  The only part of the old me which still seems to be hanging around is the fear, but I'm finding that even that isn't real when I stop focusing on it.

 

I'm talking about the psychological fear, not the physical response, that's still very much in effect.

 

I honestly don't know if this is a 'normal' part of withdrawal or if its something which has been triggered by withdrawal or something completely separate.  I could call it DP/DR and make it a psychopathology or I could look at it as an evolutionary/spiritual transformation, and see it as a positive thing.

 

Which ever way I look at it, I don't think my 'old' self is coming back.  There is obviously something left of the old me, because when I manage to get past the fear, I can still walk around in the world and do most things I used to do, well, all the basic things anyway.  I seem to be slowly getting used to being back out there participating in the world again..... without my 'self' to make decisions and guide me in how to 'act'.

 

For a long time, a very nasty feeling was being triggered a lot, it slowed down and now I'm fairly confident that its finished.  While it was happening I wasn't able to really put into words what it was like, its only in hindsight I can see clearly what was going on.

 

Its still difficult to transfer into words, but I was getting surges of disgust and revulsion at the physicality of everything around me.  This sounds strange to be writing this now, but I was in a state of resistance to there having to be a physical nature to life.  I'm still not completely comfortable with it again, but the waves of intense feelings about it have stopped.  I can go out and look at trees and birds and ants and not be overwhelmed with a nauseating urge to ..... what?  I don't know what I wanted to do, there was never anything I could do, I just wanted to escape from the overwhelming, heavy, low, dense, ugly, painful reality of the nature of physical existence.

 

I did something yesterday I had been putting off because I was scared I wouldn't be able to handle doing it.  I checked the air in the tires on the car.  They were fine, but I hadn't done it in a very long time. There were actually two things going on, preventing me from doing it.  One was the fear about my ability to do it and the other was a general resistance to life, I don't want to be here, in this body, living this life here on this awful planet..... but I am, I don't know why and I'm not sure there is an alternative at the moment.

 

A couple of days ago my parents came over, together.  Since being in withdrawal I've become very sensitive to the energy between people and coming from people and so being with my parents together has been difficult because its like I've been exposed to their dysfunction without any buffer.  I'm not sure what's changed really, because I used to be ok before I started on medication, I used to find it annoying at times, but mostly managed to block it out.

 

At the moment, their ongoing feud is playing out through the medium of rice.  It had been going on for 3 days at the time and I had been surprised that it got brought up yet again during their visit.  Of course its not about rice at all, but about power and control and dependency and unmet needs.  Thinking about it now, remembering it, the anxiety is rising, but at the time it was ok, I was able to watch it and feel it an let the feelings flow through me and let them go.  But now, thinking about it, arouses some anxiety because I don't know how I survived being raised by those two people and I'm realizing just how much re-parenting I need in order to be functional.  I don't know, maybe the fact that I can see it all, means I don't need 'fixing', but I certainly don't feel functional or centered in truth..... whatever that's supposed to feel like.  Its all just so hard.  But anyway, I survived their visit, managed to let the emotions wash over me and not stick.  They have been doing their dysfunctional dance for 60+ years, they're not likely to change now.

 

In general, my physical symptoms have been subsiding a little earlier in the day.  For a few days I was waking up between 3 and 4:30 and not being able to go back to sleep, that's improving again, 5:30 yesterday, 5:45 today and the waves of nausea and dread, memories and images are continuing to decrease in intensity and length of time they last.

 

I've been listening to a lot of Mooji at night.  He's been doing open satsangs in India for the last two weeks and someone has been uploading them to youtube I don't manage to listen to much because I fall asleep, then wake up about an hour later and have to replay it.  I find his voice has a calming quality to it and the subject matter is interesting, but not emotionally arousing, so for me, its like the perfect bedtime story.

 

Quick symptoms check:

 

• Tinnitus - ongoing, but I don't notice it a lot of the time now.
• Temperature fluctuations, hot/cold flashes with sweating - during the night and part of the morning, worse some days than others.
• Nausea - comes and goes
• Inner shaking/vibrations - rarely lasts past midday now, most intense 7am - 10am
• Obsessive, spiraling negative thoughts- they still try to start, but since taking Taurine, they only last for a few seconds now.
• Low energy/fatigue - still have very little energy, not as bad as last week, very little emotional energy.
• Short term memory loss - this has improved by about 50%, it fluctuates though.
• Concentration/focus - this has also improved, I'm finding I'm able to read books again for short periods, I'm up to being able to focus for about half an hour.
• Dizziness -decreased and when it happens, doesn't last as long
• Body pressure - decreased intensity and it doesn't last as long
• Muscle twitches - rarely occur now, maybe one or two as I'm falling asleep
• Sound/light/smell sensitivity - this still comes and goes, but its not as bad, worse in the mornings.
• TV - sensitivity to emotionally arousing aspects have diminished to about 50%, but I still don't like watching it.
• Agoraphobia - has improved, most of the remaining part now is from habit, post trauma (from it) and genuine reluctance to go out when I'm not feeling physically well.
• I still don't have much confidence
• I'm beginning to get back some interest in doing things, this comes and goes
• Feelings of pleasure are just starting to come back at times too
• I'm only feeling loss of hope now when I'm in a bad wave, generally these days I'm feeling fairly hopeful most evenings.
• Unfortunately, when a wave hits, all of this progress seems lost, but its a temporary loss

[mattinsmom]

Might I suggest that you look into Maladoma Some and the Dagara traditions? Your feelings of not waniting the connection to your body, nature, etc is something well understood from shamanic traditions.

 

I might be way off base so use what you can and disregard the rest.

[Petunia]

Might I suggest that you look into Maladoma Some and the Dagara traditions? Your feelings of not waniting the connection to your body, nature, etc is something well understood from shamanic traditions.

 

I might be way off base so use what you can and disregard the rest.

 

  Thank you MM, I haven't heard either of those 'terms', I will have a look.  If you have any relevant links on hand, please feel free to post them on my thread.

[Rhiannon]

Hi Petu--nothing special to offer, just a hello. I'm about to go into a busy period in this upcoming week and won't be on the forum as much as I have been this past few days, so I wanted to check in while I can. Thinking of you. You're always such a voice of reason and so compassionate and gentle, it's easy to forget how much you are suffering yourself. Thank you for being you.

[tezza]

Petu, my heart broke for you as I read your feelings, you seem to transfer your thoughts into words very well. Actually, what you wrote are things I've felt but haven't been able to find the words to say it in a manner I thought anyone could understand. Usually my posts aren't very long because my mind isn't clear enough to form words to convey my feelings and so many times, I want to post replies to others and just can't find the words that feel right.

 

This bothers me a great deal because vocabulary has always been a 'natural' for me and it's no where near before. Even though I see some of my old self returning, I worry that in this particular area (which was a big part of who I was, naturally) will never completely recover full-time.

 

Your symptom update could almost be mine, except for the sound/smell......, and the tv part. I have the tv on most of the time but don't hear very much of it at all. Sleep is exactly the same for me as you described, today I've been up since 2:30 or 3am. I wouldn't look at the time for a while but I had to start back because I'd wake at 11:30 PM and think it was morning, asleep only an hour. Up anywhere from 2:30 on, with a very occasional 6:30am (broken, of course).

 

Petu, we have seen improvement and must hold on to that thought because that means we are healing. I don't think I will ever be who I was before but I don't think I would still be who I was before even without the med situation. Time and circumstances would have changed me anyway.

 

We must believe and not lose hope!

[Petunia]

Hi Rhi, thank you for your kind words and for taking the time to post on my thread.
________________________________________
 

I want to post replies to others and just can't find the words that feel right.


This bothers me a great deal because vocabulary has always been a 'natural' for me and it's no where near before. Even though I see some of my old self returning, I worry that in this particular area (which was a big part of who I was, naturally) will never completely recover full-time.

Hi tezza, I'm not sure if its a good thing or not that my words described your feelings, I'm hoping that its good and that you feel less alone in dealing with some of the subtle states of awfulness which we all seem to endure.

 

It might not seem like it, but I also struggle trying to find the 'right' words when replying and posting. A lot of times I will read a post in an introduction thread and want to reply, to offer support, but I just can't do it, sometimes I push myself, other times there's just nothing there.  But what I've found, and like you, writing has always been easy for me, is that over time its slowly coming back.  My word recall is bad too and I find it very frustrating. But I have faith that if I work at it, it will eventually all come back.

 

What's more relevant, for me anyway is that while I was medicated, I could write well, and fairly effortlessly, but I was never satisfied that I had managed to write as creatively or with the depth with which I knew I was capable of because I was emotionally quite numb.  Being off meds has enabled me to reconnect with depths of feeling and experience which has been blocked off (drugged) for years.  Unfortunately, at the moment, the kinds of feelings I'm having are very uncomfortable ones, but I'm feeling again.

 

There's another 'lesson' I seem to be having to learn from all this too. Being able to 'write well' was also part of my identity, one of my goals, from a very early age was to write a book and have it published, not for the right reasons though.  I wanted to be something... a writer or an author.  Now I don't want to be anything, I just want my brain function back so I can figure out what is the next best thing to do with the rest of my life.....maybe this is it, there's nothing to figure out, this is life and I'm doing the best I can with what I have, right now.  Perhaps this was where it was headed all along.

 

I just spent the last 15 minutes sitting here, staring at the top of the wall trying to decide if I wanted to update my thread or read some more of my book.  Since going into withdrawal I've struggled terribly with reading books, I used to be able to sit for hours and hours, reading an interesting book from cover to cover, often at one sitting.  But since starting on meds, and then even worse during withdrawal, my focus had disintegrated.  But now, finally I have a book which I can't seem to put down and I think I'm going to read the whole thing.  I can't say that about a book I've picked up in a long time.  I'm even stuck half way through 'Anatomy of an Epidemic', but that's because its making me angry, and I don't need the stimulation.

 

Anyway, it seems like I'm updating my thread and this is what I wanted to document.  I've had a strange collection of pain symptoms in my right foot and I'm fairly certain they are withdrawal/NS recovery related.

 

For about 3 days I've had mild pain in my right heel whenever I've flexed my foot.  It started suddenly with no injury.  Yesterday, while walking I got a sudden sharp pain in my right big toe, it was bad and I looked down fully expecting to see a piece of glass stuck in it or a big spider biting it, but there was nothing there.  I wriggled it and the pain came again, then it stopped.  It had been a bit scary because the pain was quite intense, gave me palpitations and sweats for a few minutes.  Later in the day, while walking into the kitchen, a moderate pain developed, running down the right side of my right foot, that lasted the rest of the night.  Now I'm just left with the heel pain, but its not as bad, I expect it will be completely gone in about 2 days.

 

I used to get random pain symptoms on the left side of my body, at the moment they are appearing on the right side.  I also had a weird feeling on the right side of my ribs last night for about an hour.  I wouldn't actually call it pain, just a sensation, a bit like when you stretch a sore muscle.

 

As I've mentioned before, mild to moderate pain symptoms don't worry me, I'm used to them now, they rarely last long in one place.

 

Guess I'll get back to my book now.

[Nikki]

Hi tezza an petu.....

 

Trying to catch up...briefly on writing.  Both of you have a way with words.  You have both written to me in a way that helped me so many times.  You are both intuitive and it comes across in  your posts even though you may not realize it.

 

I have to go now but I would love to speak with you both.....maybe Iwlll PM

[Petunia]

To document:

 

Started taking Black Cohosh today.  Half a 40mg tab.  Recommended dose is one 40mg tab twice a day.

 

I'm wondering if the hot flashes and sweating may be caused or partially caused by hormonal fluctuations of menopause, so I'm testing it out.

 

If I have no bad reaction to the half tab, I will increase dose and try them for a week or 2.

 

Another positive note - A little while ago I found the emotional strength and courage to attempt making contact with a plumber, in order to get my blocked drains fixed.  My first attempt failed, first call to a number I got off the side of a plumbing truck didn't do residential.  I temporarily felt defeated, but took a few deep breaths and went and found a local paper, got some numbers from the classified section and called a local plumbing service.  First number I tried had a female receptionist who actually answered the phone, it was a relief and now I have a plumber booked for Wednesday afternoon, and apparently, he is going to call me 30 minutes before he arrives, which will be so nice.

[mattinsmom]

Hi Petu

 

These are just a couple of links, tidbits of information here and there. I've heard you talk of spirituality and your connections (and lack of connections) with the world as a whole. The Dagara culture is based in connections. There is so much more I could tell you but I'm not flowing tonight. Questions I could answer but no original thoughts to be found You know how it is.

 

Here are a couple of sites. I couldn't get them to come in as links. The last one has a really magnificent description of the fundamentals of Dagara philosophy. Malidoma is a wonderful man, I've been privileged to participate in ritual/ceremony with him.

 

I am a shamanic practitioner in the traditions of the Dagara culture so I'm biased. Its not for everyone. If any of it feels good for you, great. If not, please disregard.  

 

 

http://malidoma.com/main/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malidoma_Patrice_Some

 

http://www.sobonfu.com

 

http://www.schoolofwisdom.com/african_philosophy

 

And congrats on your perseverance with the plumber. I understand how big of a deal things like making that phone call can be.  

[Petunia]

Thank you Amy,  I will check out the links.  I did find some information and watched a series of interviews on youtube.  I was very impressed, he sounds wise, genuine and I relate to his views of the the world and various cultures.  I was hoping to find mention somewhere of what you commented on, my resistance to being in the body and feeling repelled by the physical nature of life.   But maybe I have to read one of his books to learn about that?

 

Thankfully, that seems to have past now, its fading into not much more than an unpleasant memory.

 

I wish there were some genuine spiritual teachers and authentic spiritual communities close to where I live.  When I recover more, and feel able to travel further from home, I might go in search of a new community.

[lobster]

Just saying im thinking of you and hope your getting a long ok.Im glad you feel like reading again and can keep focused :-)

[Petunia]

I've been trying to update my own thread, but keep getting distracted by other posts.  But I'm here now.  Unfortunately I have no idea what to write.  The last 2 - 3 days have been quite different, probably coinciding with when I started taking Black Cohosh, but even that could just be a coincidence.

 

The symptom I was expecting (hoping) it would help with was the hot flashes and sweating.  They have decreased, probably by about 50% and for the last two nights, I wasn't woken up by them.  I'm still getting them mildly through the day, but not as intense.  I'm now taking the full recommended dose of the Black Cohosh.  But something else seems to be different, my confidence is starting to come back.  Its still fairly bad between when I wake up (still too early) and about 11am, but after that, I'm getting my old adventurous spirit back.

 

I dealt with the plumber yesterday, it was very hot outside, while he was here, but apart from that, it was easy.  I've been walking every day, I caught up on car maintenance (fluid checks), which I had been putting off.  But what really surprised me was that I learned how to clean corrosion off battery terminals..... and went ahead and did it.

 

I'm starting to look for things to do because my boredom is beginning to overtake the panic/overwhelm.... well that's how its been the last few days.  I'm realizing just how much my life has shrunk down to nothing and I'm very slowly, carefully considering the best ways to start expanding.  I don't want to take on too much too soon and increase stress.

 

I went ahead and ordered a few puppy accessories because I'm getting close to feeling like I can handle the responsibility of a puppy.  When I was walking today I was wishing I had a dog with me.

 

I'm still not enjoying things or getting any pleasure, but I don't seem to be overwhelmed with panic and anxiety by the thought of doing things now.  DP/DR has decreased too.

 

This may be a window, or it could be a combination of taurine and Black Cohosh helping with symptoms..... I don't know, I guess I will find out in time.

[lobster]

Hi petu it sounds like some of the wheels in your brain might be starting to turn :-) im happy for you. Maybe the more you do out of boredom the more you will want to do in return. As the adventure returns so might the spark of life.The fact that you are thinking positive about the future is a good thing. Im hoping you get that puppy.Take care

[bubble]

regardless of what it is, it sounds amazing! wow, the thought of a puppy, that would be great!

 

I can only say it's wonderful to read of all these small steps which are actually giant leaps

 

I don't even know what battery terminals are, lol

[Nikki]

Petu I totally relate as to how life can shrink due to all of this.  The good news is that you did quite a number of things which is so good.

 

A puppy can change things in such a beautiful way....I say go for it.

[alex]

Dear Petu, it seems that you are having undeniable hints of recovery.I know because I've been there.

I am happy for you;keep on with the good work you have been doing.

You are a good brave person.

Good for the puppy!!

[Petunia]

Thank you all, for the puppy related encouragement, but this morning I was so happy I don't have a puppy yet.  After several quite good days, I woke up with a return of fairly severe symptoms and would have found it almost impossible to deal with the needs of a young puppy.  I've raised lots of dogs from puppies throughout my life without much concern, just being swept up in the excitement of it, so this feeling of being overwhelmed with the responsibility of it is very new to me.

 

Eventually my symptoms settled down, around the middle of the afternoon.  Inspired by something Alto wrote in Jason's thread, I went out and bought some organic apples and greens and came home and got my blender out from where its been hibernating for the last 2 years.  I made a green smoothie, it was surprisingly delicious. I left the blender out on my bench top, its going to become a daily routine.

 

While I was out, I looked in the pet store, thankfully, there were no cute puppies for sale today, but I was looking at the dog toys, there were so many varieties, I got overwhelmed.... it was too much.  I was watching a video last night about how to raise a puppy and it said that a puppy needs at least 5 different kinds of toys and they have to be rotated daily, I don't remember it being this complicated

 

Anyway, at least I'm able to get out and do some things now, a few months ago it took me 3 days to build up the courage to drive 2 mins to buy some milk.

[alex]

Hello Petu;I know exactly the feeling about been overwhelmed by responibility.

You don`t have to push yourself too much right now.

Just take care,be gentle and compassionate to yourself, and in the meantime, do what you FEEL you can do, nothing else.

I am healing Petu, and very fast now, you will too;everybody does.

 

Hugs, A.

[Rhiannon]

Hello Petu, just stopping by to say hi--nothing in particular, just thinking of you.

[DrugSlave]

Petu, your posts are interesting and thoughtful. I hope you feel better soon. 

[Petunia]

I seem to be in another wave.  Can't deny it any longer, feeling miserable.  For some reason I can't keep remembering that this process isn't linear, so when I feel better for a few days, I keep expecting the improvement to continue, then when it doesn't, every time I seem to go through some kind of grief process, first denial and shock, then anger, then some depression mixed with bargaining (mostly with myself), then finally acceptance again.

 

And here I am, back into acceptance again.  I'm not soon going to be feeling well and healthy, even though getting a dog was a reality for a few days and I've been walking regularly and I drank green smoothies.  Just because a couple of my symptoms have decreased in response to some supplements, it doesn't mean anything, I'm still on this long, slow, difficult path to recovery, wishing I hadn't been so hopeful and positive because of a few temporary improvements.

 

Doubts have crept back in, I'm not going to recover, this is as good as its ever going to get.  Life is once again racing along all around me and I've stumbled, falling back.  I'm never going to catch up.  Fears, doubts, insecurities are back. Physical symptoms have reduced so now the psychological ones have space to grow.  I'm taking everything around me too personally, I can see it, but can't seem to get out of my own head.

 

Yesterday I realized that huge chunks of my memory are now missing.  I used to have an amazing long term memory filled with detail, now much of it is gone and its scary because I'm wondering if this is the reason why I'm feeling so incapable and lacking in confidence because I really can't remember the details of how I've lived much of my life.  I know I've done lots of things, but when it comes to remembering the details, there's nothing there.  Its not that  I even want to remember most of it, but I need to remember how to do things.  Or it would be nice to be able to reconnect with that old sense of being a capable person, based on something which feels real.  Something is very different about the way my brain is processing memory and learning,  nothing sticks, my sense of myself keeps disintegrating as fast as I keep trying to patch it back together.  I don't know how to live like this, it feels very frightening.

 

I'm supposed to be going somewhere, doing things, making my life into 'something', learning, growing, building, expanding, exploring, gaining, progressing, acquiring.  For a few hours, or even a few days, I can start to move in that direction (again).  But then it falls apart.  Its always fallen apart eventually, if I'm honest.  Plans that seemed like a good idea to begin with, rarely turn out as expected and the nature of things in reality are often nothing like I imagine them to be.  And yet everyone around me says "keep going, keep doing, don't stop"  I can detect their own blind terror in the encouragements as if stopping, keeping still and being silent is inviting the worst of life's horrors to engulf us.

 

But that seems to be all I'm regularly capable of doing these days.....nothing.... yet the terror of the nature of my existence is constantly following me like a starving predator, warning me to keep moving, keep running, but I'm tired, I want to rest.  But there can be no peace when fear is attached like a shadow.  Its 'wrong' to do things out of fear.   I know this, but I still can't seem to shake off this bad habit.

 

Fear has been snapping at my heels my whole life.  Even during the times I was so caught up in my life I wasn't aware of it, it was still there, the silent fuel behind every action.  The drugged years must have tamed it to an extent, or at least kept it muzzled.  Now its free again, making up for lost time in expressing its aggression, years of pent up energy spewing out like lava from an active volcano. 

 

Is this neuro-fear? 

 

....meaning fear that's not real.  It feels real, more real than any fear I ever experienced before.  That's not entirely true, I have felt fear this intense before, but nothing which has gone on for such a long time.  Maybe the part which isn't real is the fact that its not being caused by anything apart from my own malfunctioning nervous system.

 

I've got more questions than answers and I don't think anyone else has answers either.  I'm on the second last chapter of the book I'm managing to read, but I've stopped reading it.  It seemed promising at first, but the further along I got, the realization was growing, this guy doesn't know 'the truth' either, he's just guessing like everyone else.  I should have know better, with the word 'theory' in the title it should have been obvious, but I couldn't help hoping for something tangible to hold onto for a sense of security.  The book is about human development from a transpersonal perspective, nothing about psyche drug withdrawal.

 

Anyway, I'm going to go and make another green smoothie now, maybe that will make me feel better

[bubble]

Dearest Petu,

 

amidst all the difficulty you wrote yet another amazing post which will help so many of us. I'd like to pin it down somewhere. It's also so artistically poetic and you have sublimed your anguished into art. Like all great artist do...

 

I'm actually in a hurry to go and enjoy another splendid day. Spent another 6 hours outdoors yesterday and after that felt good as in all anxiety gone, the calm I felt was almost physically warm and blissful, I was present in the moment, looking at things around me in wonder, like I didn't see them for ages (and I didn't) or to paraphrase L. Cohen: I haven't been that blissful since the end of the WW2, I was looking forward to and enjoying very simple pleasures of watching a TV show with singing and planning for tomorrow..  And only a day or two earlier I was raging. But while being in the blissful state, I also knew that too would pass. Such is the nature of the beast. (I've heard Cohen has also been struggling with depression all his life. I saw him saying in an interview it abated as he grew older, he made peace with it I think he said).

 

I read your post when I woke up this morning and was thinking about it for a while meaning to remind you that the process is not linear but when I re-read it again now I saw that you of course remembered that. And that you didn't find this fact too comforting. Because it is exactly what is the worst thing about this experience we are going through: if you are healing from a physical wound no matter how long and slow it is taking, there is no going back but here we feel like we are constantly being jerked back to square one. 

 

I find it so hard to express myself (which ties in nicely with your paragraph on loss of cognitive abilities). I'm so very familiar with what you so beautifully describe. I have frequent moments when I feel my IQ dropped dramatically, when it seems all I knew got  permanently erased as well as my creativity. It's not that I feel dumb, I am dumb. And this is so painful for somebody who used to be one of the best pupils in class, etc. It's not me. This happened to me for the first time in my early twenties when everybody was learning, growing, developing and I was brain dead. But here I can tell to both myself and you that my cognitive faculties (even the knowledge and information I had) turned out not to be erased but the passage to them was blocked. When the brain fog lifts, I find to my amazement that all I ever knew is still there, that I am able to be as creative as ever (still can't write poems as I did before but hope it might come one day again).

 

As you say, I've now learnt to just accept that I'm dumb when I feel like that and not to project it into the future (this is it, from now on I'm a dumb person) but instead I think to myself: I will be intelligent again It's not that I think not being intelligent is something bad. It's just that this is not me. It constitutes the loss of my identity.

 

Needless to say, what we see from you here is just sheer brilliance, there is no evidence that you can't access vast spaces of you but I fully believe you. (I'm also lucky that people mostly don't notice I'm not all there which makes it possible for me to survive professionally. Even when I'm not all there I manage to do a passable and at least average work. I find this expression "not all there" very useful because it somehow implies that some parts of us are otherwise engaged rather than having gone for good).

 

Speaking of fear... yes, it seems to be a driving force of all human endeavor. There is so much of our cultural and all other kind of social condition in it, especially in the West that stopping (to admire woods on a snowy evening) will be the end of us, that we simply have to move and do things. Anything else is not only plain sinful but will ruin us. That's why Western civilization got so drawn to the Eastern practices. For people like us it's not some spiritual fad but a bare necessity that is literally saving us by telling us it's ok to step out of the river, sit on its banks and watch it flow, without guilt. Sitting peacefully under the tree is not sinful, it's beneficial. That's the shift in the paradigm that is saving our battered brains even without its spiritual dimension. I liked reading the Power of Now because Tolle notices that Jesus was speaking about the same thing (it's just that his words got used in another contexts).

 

I don't want to give you any advice. You know it all. We simply have to trudge on, even when it makes no sense, even when all we feel is pain because along the way, unexpectedly we will find ourselves again. We know that, it has happened many times for us. Picking up our crosses and carrying them knowing there is resurrection at the end (or at least a window

 

Robert Frost was coming to my mind frequently when writing this (being deemed trivial for the simplicity of his profoundness). but in this outlook I can't post Stopping by woods on a snowy evening...even the horse things that stopping is a mistake. But we know it's not

 

big hug

 

bubble

[Nikki]

Hi....

 

Petu I get the whole responsibility thing...I am overly responsible - so much so that I overwhelm myself.  Not good.

 

Bubbles how wonderful that you are enjoying the outdoors.  It helps.  Sunshine and fresh air help....so do the green smoothies.

 

Petu I took my juicer out the other day too.

 

Someone on another site told me to stay optimistic because there is recovery....

 

Hugs

[Petunia]

Thank you Bubble and Nikki,  I'm not able to write much, this wave seems to be building in intensity and this morning, its reaching panic proportions.  Its been quite a while since I've felt this bad.  I'm chaotically trying to remember everything I've done, eaten or drank over the last few days, wondering if I've caused this. Are the green smoothies causing me to go into a detox?  Was it the single, bite sized piece of chocolate I ate 2 days ago?  The chicken korma or have some of my supplements turned paradoxical?  Is it just a  wave? I'm trying really hard to accept it and figure out how to get through the time until it passes.  This one feels like its been 2 steps forward and 4 steps back.

 

I need calming distraction, but traumatic memories from my childhood keep coming up.  I faced one of them, let it fill me and was bathed in the fear, anger and then sadness from it.  It eventually passed, but I realized that something from that experience had lingered on some level my whole life and had been effecting me, like a heavy weight.  It really was quite a small thing and nothing which would bother me these days, but to a 5 year old child, it was as frightening as a death sentence.

 

Last week I was starting to handle life again, but now I'm back to trembling and watching my breath in order to stop myself spiraling into panic.  These constant changes are too much, not being able to predict how I experience life from one day to the next adds to the stress and insecurity.  I'm so sick of myself, sick and sick of myself for being like this, for not being strong enough to pull myself out of it and get on with life, like everyone else.  Shame and self disgust are rising again, I know they are not justified, on a mental level, I know this, and yet, here they are, remnants from a childhood of being shamed into behaving 'properly'.  Once again I'm not behaving properly, so the old programming kicks in. I'm a bad girl, I'm broken, there is something wrong with me and I had better start acting differently, no matter how I feel because I'm not going to get my survival needs met if other people are upset.  I will die a miserable death alone in my room and no one will care, because I'm a bad person and I don't deserve to live.     Not quite sure where that came from, but there it is.

 

Why did they do that to me?  Because that is what was done to them and they didn't know any different. But they turned out ok, or so they have always claimed and according to cultural standards, they sort of have.  Both my parents have fairly robotically lived their lives according to externally set patterns of role behavior, conforming to what they believed was expected of them at the time.  I couldn't do it, my 'feelings' refused to stay buried, they seemed to have something important to say, unfortunately, I was the only person who thought that.

 

Right now, right in this moment, I don't know anything.  I'm overwhelmed with feelings, triggered by current bodily sensations, but dragged with them are old, ancient wounds, reopened to let their infections see some light and have a chance to heal properly..... I hope this is what's happening, because its exhausting and I don't want to be going through this for nothing.

 

There seems to be nothing else to write now, so I guess I will stop.

[mammaP]

Petu I am so sorry that you are feeling so bad. Hopefully this is a wave that will soon pass.

Take care of yourself and  do whatever it takes to feel some peace and relax a little. 

Fresh air, a warm bath, chick flicks, sleep and a huge squishy Mamma hug. xx

[Wolfhound]

Petu, I appreciate your writing so much. It resonates with me. Thank you for writing and for being with us here. You are an admirable person. W

[bubble]

Dear Petu,

 

finally forced to become more productive since the deadline is fast approaching so no more foruming for me except this quick one for you: yes, I think this is exactly what is happening: old, ancient wounds,reopened to let their infections see some light and have a chance to heal properly.

 

it is not for nothing!

 

just keep your head above the water and we are here to help you!

 

big hug,

 

bubble

[alex]

 

 

just keep your head above the water and we are here to help you!

 

 

 

 

 

Keep on walking dear Petu;SURVIVAL mode.

Don`t listen to the negative thoughts;it's all part of the horrible condition.

You are a wonderful, brave woman, and you, like many others,WILL make it.It is just a matter of time.

 

Hugs, A.

[Rhiannon]

Petu, I think probably this is just a wave which happens the way they do, but I did want to say that I myself sometimes find green smoothies too stimulating. I have to pace myself with those. That was actually the first thing that popped into my head when I saw you were feeling worse.

 

I don't know if it's detox or all the enzymes or all the vitamins or what, or if it's an intestinal effect (I find that what happens in my intestines has a strong effect on how I feel, long story but I think there are some threads somewhere about the enteric nervous system and intestinal flora and the vagus nerve). So you might try cutting those out for a while and stick with more soothing and easily digestible foods for a while.

 

As always, you and Bubble write beautiful, insightful, moving pieces even though you're feeling like you're not all there and not cognitively at your best. I don't mean this as denial of what you are experiencing about yourself, but just to say that some of what you're feeling might be partly the neuro-fear, neuro-emotion, neuro-thinking--you may be functioning cognitively in at least some ways better than you realize.

 

The kinds of fears and emotions you describe are so familiar to me. Both from my own experiences and from what I hear other people saying all the time. For something so chaotic, it's strange how much similar themes emerge in withdrawal and waves. 

 

I also have had old trauma memories and feelings come back during withdrawal. It can feel really intense and overwhelming, but I like the way you're approaching it, as an opening up of something that was buried and needed to be opened up to heal.

 

Sending you hope and soothing energy...

 

--Rhi

[Meimeiquest]

Petu, This sounds like very worthwhile suffering. This probably isn't it, but I about did myself in with the supplement version of green smoothies. SLOW-RELEASE Niacin, about 100mg, pulled me out....if you try it, you will know it is working within an hour. I still take it sometimes with juicing. But I am not at all sure it is what you need. Hope you feel better soon!

[mattinsmom]

Stopping in to say I'm thinking of you. 

[bubble]

thinking about you too...

[mammaP]

MammaP too..... with a squishy hug.