☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[Petunia]

If I was your therapist I would now tell you you have taken a very significant step towards your emotional growth by finding enough courage to expose your vulnerability.

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply with such care and sensitivity.  You have helped just as much, maybe more than any real therapist I've had.  Like you wrote, this whole site is turning out to be so much more than just withdrawal advice.

 

I think I could probably handle a 'healthy' relationship now, if I had one.  But I've got some more 'me' work to do first.

 

((hugs))

[Nikki]

ts scary for me to be this open because I've learned to reject all the less than perfect parts of myself. By admitting my uncomfortable feelings, my inability to 'be strong', and my complete hopelessness in the face of this overwhelming situation, I'm sort of reliving my childhood vulnerability.

 

Petu believe me you are not alone.....so many people upon opening up will admit to this too. What I've heard in 12 step programs is that this thinking/feelings don't really every go away, they go underground and when anxiety - situational things crop up - stress - WD and a lot of other things can bring this all up again.

 

After admitting this, maybe you can take it a step further and journal about it. And then then ~ talk to yourself in a compassionate manner. The same way you talk to us to help us get thru a difficult spell.

 

Sometimes we need to give ourselves 'tough love'....right now seems like you need to soothe yourself with love, and acceptance and know that everyone on this planet has part of ourselves we want to change from feeling imperfect.

 

Hugs

[Barbarannamated]

Petu,

 

Another brilliant post that resonated with me on so many levels.

 

This part, in particular:

 

"Its like my brain has to constantly keep moving, going in search of something new to distract it or stimulate it.

 

But I can't find anything new.  With this unlimited internet thing right in front of me, I can't find anything new and interesting to distract me, well nothing which doesn't create surges of anxiety anyway.  But right now, right this second, I'm ok."

 

I wonder if this is what Dr. (from Pasadena?) called "mental akathisia"..? It reminds me of an old commercial in which computer says to person "you have reached the end of the internet". I've lost my natural curiosity which kept me going for 10+ years without a job, few friends, no family. I am unable to grasp any ideas or storylines for more than a few minutes. I hope someone will comment who has survived this while unemployed for years.

 

Thank you for your priceless contributions, Petu.

[mammaP]

I typed out a long post with my 2 fingers and lost it so here are 3 extra squishy Mamma hugs for 

you Nicki and Barb. You are all amazing the way you deal with the situation you find yourselves in.

 

One day at a time 

[Petunia]

I wonder if this is what Dr. (from Pasadena?) called "mental akathisia"..? It reminds me of an old commercial in which computer says to person "you have reached the end of the internet".

 

  That's exactly what it feels like.  I'm sorry you are going through this too Barb, but its comforting to know someone else has experienced this particular symptom.  When I experience something which I haven't seen anyone mention before, I start to wonder if something else is going on besides withdrawal.

 

From memory, I think I've read that you were on stimulant meds for a while? Like me.  I'm wondering if this is somehow related, like a kind of delayed withdrawal response from a drug which forces an almost obsessive focus on mundane details.  This feels like I've swung to its opposite.

 

I honestly do get a panicky feeling that 'I've reached the end of the internet'.

 

Thanks Nikki for your kind words and MammaP.... don't you hate it when that happens but the hugs helped.

[alex]

 

"Its like my brain has to constantly keep moving, going in search of something new to distract it or stimulate it.

 

 

It used to be like that for me just a few months ago.

Now has gotten very very weak.

I have moments or entire days of very acceptable feeling of peace.

It WILL GET BETTER.

 

Hang in there.

[Barbarannamated]

 

 

I wonder if this is what Dr. (from Pasadena?) called "mental akathisia"..? It reminds me of an old commercial in which computer says to person "you have reached the end of the internet".

That's exactly what it feels like. I'm sorry you are going through this too Barb, but its comforting to know someone else has experienced this particular symptom. When I experience something which I haven't seen anyone mention before, I start to wonder if something else is going on besides withdrawal.

 

From memory, I think I've read that you were on stimulant meds for a while? Like me. I'm wondering if this is somehow related, like a kind of delayed withdrawal response from a drug which forces an almost obsessive focus on mundane details. This feels like I've swung to its opposite.

 

I honestly do get a panicky feeling that 'I've reached the end of the internet'.

Petu,

 

I have also thought that the "mental akathisia"/inability to stay with a subject or distraction might be related to stimulant withdrawal. It's somehow different than emotional anesthesia or anhedonia -- very distressing and anxiety-provoking.

 

My daily pattern has also changed similar to yours. Mornings are still the worst with feelings of dread, but they're not letting up as much as they used to in the evening. When I had anxiety in the morning, it eased up in the afternoon and I felt near normal in the evenings. I was able to watch a few hours of TV in some peace. That is gone now and my sleep is much more fractured with extreme depression. That said, I do have significant life events going on (toxic family, death of mother and mother-in-law since being in withdrawal).

 

B

[EternalOptimist]

Mental " akathesia" huh? Good description. Given I was too ill in benzo w/d, I colored adult coloring books for a year. Learned I have a

Knack for colors! This may not appeal to you, especially since you're further along, but thought I'd share anyway.

Good luck Petu. Another Sx to put behind you one day.

[Petunia]

I can hardly contain my happiness and gratitude, I've just lived through the most tolerable 3.5 hours of the last 27 months.... during the day.
 
copied from the symptoms and self care section: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5759-taurine-for-heart-arrhythmia/?p=77436
 

My Taurine arrived this morning    So far so good.  It was about 10am, so I was still under the spell of the cortisol fairy, good time to try it out.  I had bought the Now brand, 500mg capsules.  I resisted the urge to swallow down a whole capsule and instead opened one up and shook out half of the powder.  I fumbled around trying to put the capsule back together in my half dark kitchen, for some reason, I had forgotten electricity and lights had been invented.  Then my frustration got the better or me and I just poured the remaining power into my mouth and went in search of my half finished mug of warm milk to wash it down with.
 
After about half an hour, I thought I noticed a slight physical easing of body tension.  Then after about an hour I suddenly felt very tired and attempted to go to sleep, so far something which has been impossible at that time of day due to high cortisol.  I actually dozed off for a few minutes but was woken by the usual surge of adrenaline, but it was only at about 50% strength and disappeared within seconds, usually those things last a couple of minutes and are followed by surges of heat and sweating.
 
After 2 hours my body was feeling as calm and relaxed as it usually does around 9pm when I'm able to lay on my bed calmly listening to all the noises which feel like torture during the day.  So I just laid there, wondering if I was imagining it.  Wondering if this was a placebo effect, wondering if at any second I would pop back into my usual awful reality, so I just laid there savoring the moment.  Then I realized I was bored, very strange, to be relaxed enough during the day to be bored.  So I got up and started on the kitchen and it was true, there were no surges of fear and dread with almost everything my eyes encountered.
 
Its been 4 hours now and its so nice to be feeling so........dare I say 'normal' at this time of day.  The last two things I tried Relora and Seriphos, certainly had effects, the Relora put me into a kind of drugged, depressed sleep and the Seriphos did something, but it went paradoxical very fast.  I suppose this could too, but so far so good.
 
So far, I'm feeling physically relaxed and mentally alert.  I think I will go buy some milk, see how that feels.
 
edited to add: my appetite arrived early at 11am, rather than the middle of the afternoon like it usually does, I can rarely eat solid food before 2pm.

 
... and it continues. 
 
I went and bought some milk, honey and some vegetables and it was like the easiest thing I've ever done.  The store still looked ugly and cold, bathed in its florescent lighting, but it wasn't effecting my body and my thinking, I was processing everything properly again.  Its coming up to 2 years since we moved into this house and I was noticing things for the first time as I drove back home.
 
Of course this may just be a window that happened to have opened up an hour after I took the taurine.  It may be completely my imagination or a strong placebo effect.  I don't know, right now I don't care, I feel better than I have in a long time and I'm believing that I have a future worth living.  If something can make me feel 'normal' during daylight hours, even for one day, then its got to be possible again.
 
My amazon book order arrived today too, that was unexpected, I thought it was going to take another week, so now I have my copy of AOAE,  I can read the book I've been recommending to others.
 
 

My daily pattern has also changed similar to yours. Mornings are still the worst with feelings of dread, but they're not letting up as much as they used to in the evening. When I had anxiety in the morning, it eased up in the afternoon and I felt near normal in the evenings. I was able to watch a few hours of TV in some peace. That is gone now and my sleep is much more fractured with extreme depression. That said, I do have significant life events going on (toxic family, death of mother and mother-in-law since being in withdrawal).

B

 
I've also had some stressful events to deal with while being in withdrawal and honestly don't know how I coped, perhaps it helped because at the time of most of them, I didn't know what was wrong with me and just expected to instantly 'recover' any day.  I've never really been able to watch TV since all this started, not even in the evening.  A few times I've managed to watch a show or movie, but I've had to be so careful not to expose myself to news updates or some commercials or previews of upcoming events, its been so difficult I don't even try to watch TV now.  I don't know how I would have survived so long without youtube.
 
After today's experience, its made it even more clear that whatever is going on with us is physical, stressful events obviously have an impact, but only so far as that while we are in such a weakened and vulnerable state, they feel so much worse than they actually are.
 
I'm starting to think that perhaps reducing/increasing stress has no bearing on the course or outcome of this recovery process.  Stressful events feel worse and are impossible to tolerate, and reduce our emotional strength and will to live.  But short of finding that elusive, individual 'thing' which seems to open a window, I think the key to getting through this is to do whatever it takes to stay alive long enough for our particular nervous system to do what it needs to do to work its way back to health.
 
Right from the start of this, from when I 'crashed' in Nov 2011, I've always managed to have an hour or two of feeling ok, even in the beginning when I wasn't sleeping and was living like I was in a constant state of shock, I somehow managed to relax for an hour here or there through the night, calm myself down enough to build up some hope that whatever was going on was going to end, this was before I really knew what was happening and believed that maybe I would be ok the next day or that there was just some pill I could take or food I needed to eliminate.
 
I think we are about the same age Barb, we have both lost huge chunks of life as we knew it and can't see anything in the future worth living for.  If every single potential future event, which is supposed to bring pleasure, instead brings with the thought of it a feeling of anxiety or dread, then what could possibly be the point in wanting to keep going.  But today's window has shown me that for whatever reason, maybe temporary, the way I have been feeling hasn't been a true representation of the future.  Today, and even now, I have been able to imagine future events and not be overwhelmed with negative emotions, I've even felt the beginnings of excitement and anticipation associated with future possibilities.  For the longest time I've known that getting a dog would be good for me, but when thinking about it, I've been overwhelmed with anxiety.  Today, I thought about it and I felt excitement and joy, it wasn't overshadowed with fear.  Once the 'neuro-emotions' stop being triggered, normal emotional reactions are right there, right where we left them.
 
I don't know if I will remember this tomorrow, but for now, this is the clearest window I've had and I'm looking through it at the truth, so I want to share it with anyone who needs a window right now.
 
Hang in there Barb, we will get through this.  Whenever I bump into your old posts or read something you have written recently I imagine you with your horses and dogs and hope that one day you will be back out there doing what you love.
 

I colored adult coloring books for a year. Learned I have a
Knack for colors!

I've heard of adult coloring books, but never seen any, I've visited my local craft store several times looking for 'something' to keep me occupied.  My last attempt had me bringing home paints, brushes and some canvasses.  I had got inspired by watching videos of abstract painting.  I used to paint, but not abstracts.

 

I managed to produce a few 'things', but it didn't stick, a bit like the crocheting I tried during the middle of last year.  I don't think I was ready.  I'm still in the purely survival mode of this process, all my energy has been going towards just keeping myself alive one day at a time, there hasn't really been enough energy for creativity.  Being in a cortisol fueled fight or flight state for a major part of the day seems to kill off those creative parts of the brain, when it does subside, I'm usually feeling exhausted and just want to eat something and go to sleep.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Today has been a strange and unexpected kind of day, I'm glad I wrote about it because I have no idea what tomorrow is going to bring.  I will take another dose of tourine tonight and see what happens.
 

[bubble]

I can only say 'wow' and thank you so much for the great account!

[mammaP]

What a brilliant post Petu, I am grinning from ear to ear and so happy for you. 

 

I'm so glad you are feeling better, and hope it continues for a good while for you.

You deserve a break 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I am always amazed by the care and thought you put into your posts, petu, and am thrilled tou found something that has worked for you. mammaP is right, you deserve this break no matter how long it lasts because if it came, there will be others. You are such a hero to me!

[EternalOptimist]

I managed to produce a few 'things', but it didn't stick, a bit like the crocheting I tried during the middle of last year.  I don't think I was ready.  I'm still in the purely survival mode of this process, all my energy has been going towards just keeping myself alive one day at a time, there hasn't really been enough energy for creativity.  Being in a cortisol fueled fight or flight state for a major part of the day seems to kill off those creative parts of the brain, when it does subside, I'm usually feeling exhausted and just want to eat something and go to sleep.

 

--—

I so get survival mode then exhaustion. Not fun and I'm sorry. So much time lost but, here we are. Nice to know we are not alone tho

Sad so many of us out here struggling to get our lives back. Something's wrong with the bigger picture.

That's Another story.

Creativity, for me, seems almost like a luxury. .

I, too, am happy for your break. Hope it lingers long.

EO

[Petunia]

Thanks everyone for your comments, support and good wishes

 

I don't know if this post is going to be a long, rambling one, or just a few points to update.  I'm feeling like I've suddenly stumbled into new territory and I don't know how things work now.

 

I'm fairly certain this isn't a random window, the taurine has 'done something'.  Hopefully I can remember the details of the last 18 hours, so I can document the changes.

 

I had taken 250mg as powder (out of the capsule) at 10am and its 'effect' lasted all day.  I felt calmer than usual in the evening.  I made dinner for daughter and me in a relaxed kind of way that is unknown to me.  It was even easier and more natural than I've felt even before I ever took drugs.  My whole life, when I've been engaged in something which requires periods of activity and periods of waiting - as in cooking, I've always felt particularly agitated in the waiting periods.  I would usually be doing several things at once, even if I didn't need to, so that I could avoid those tortuous long moments of inactivity.  This would often lead to more stress and less than perfectly cooked meals.  But not last night.

 

I spent a lot of time yesterday afternoon trying to find out exactly what taurine does in the body.  It was easy to find things related to cats, body building and heart conditions.  Lots of pages designed for selling it as a supplement, but very few quality articles about what it actually does.  But I found some studies which gave me some clues, I still have a few more I found and haven't read yet.  I learned the difference between an agonist and an antagonist

 

There seems to be a connection between taurine and gaba, or rather the gaba receptors.  Those are the ones targeted by benzos.  There was a study done with two kinds of mice, quite nasty really, they cut off their heads while they were asleep , but they did and learned some things which I really couldn't make much sense out of.  But through it I learned of the taurine/gaba connection.  Maybe someone else can understand it:

 

http://jp.physoc.org/content/585/2/539.full.pdf

 

I've got a few more studies open in tabs now, which I'm looking forward to reading, once my brain wakes up a bit more.  I vaguely remember reading something yesterday about taurine effecting another bit of the brain which sounded relevant to withdrawal, hopefully that's in one of the tabs I have open.

 

So anyway, last night was good, better than the usual kind of good. I was tired, but not my usual exhausted tired.  I wasn't falling asleep by 8pm, then waking up an hour later.  I think I may have been getting sick unrelated to withdrawal because I'd had a slight sore throat and ear ache, which started before taking the taurine, but it never amounted to much and has gone now.

 

I took a full capsule at 10pm and fell asleep about an hour later.  I woke up several times through the night, but that's not unusual, it was pretty warm and when I woke up, it seemed to be related to waves of heat, but each time I fell straight back to sleep and there were no surges of anxiety or dread.

 

There were only minor improvements between my normal night time experience and the taurine effected one.

 

But this morning has been significantly different from my usual morning experience.  I woke up about 5am (I think), which is within my normal range of wake times, but there were no racing thoughts, no dread, no waves of nausea.  My body still felt somewhat stressed, like, I was getting some chills and then waves of heat and some sweating, there was also a little inner trembling, but it was all completely physical, it wasn't triggering waves of negative emotions and thoughts.

 

I got up and refilled my water glass and immediately noticed the difference.  I was getting chills and was shaky, but I didn't really care and I didn't have that ominous sense that something terrible was about to happen any second.  It felt like I had taken a xanax, but I hadn't, I took an amino acid like substance 7 hours ago and it was still 'helping'.

 

At 6am I took another 500mg capsule and thought to myself 'now what'?  What do I do now that I'm awake and not in a state of terror like I have been every day for the last 2.5 years.  There seemed to be some significance to the fact that its my birthday today, but only slightly.

 

At 7am I realized that I was hungry.  That's unheard of.  I can't remember the last time I've actually felt hunger before midday and to actually feel like eating or be able to even think about food without feeling nauseous??  I was wanting eggs and toast and tea at 7am, it was so nice to experience something so normal.  So at 7am I made eggs, toast and decaff tea, ate and drank it and felt perfectly fine, I actually enjoyed it.  How can this be?  I've fallen into a parallel universe where my life is ok.

 

I cleaned up the kitchen and loaded the dishwasher at 7:30, it was easy, I usually can't face it until much later.

 

Then I turned on my computer and still felt fine, usually I don't.  Usually when I look at all my tabs from the day before I get overwhelmed with waves of negative emotions and have to fight through them to find the least arousing tab to focus on to get me through the next hour.

 

So here I am, 9:30 in the morning.  Not feeling perfect, by any means.  My temperature thingy is still off, there is the occasional wave of slight dizzyness, my thinking is a bit fuzzy and I guess I'm not feeling particularly energetic, but I'm calm, content and not reeling with waves of awful emotions and dreadful thoughts.

 

I have no idea what I'm going to do for the rest of the day, but I don't care.  The crows are squawking outside my window and I don't care.  The guy across the street is bashing something and I don't care.  I feel like having another cup of tea, this is so nice to actually be wanting something, desiring something, anticipating getting some pleasure from something.

 

The taurine seems to be 'curing' or suppressing the psychological anxiety, the anhedonia, the depression, the surges of adreneline.  From experience or conditioning, at regular intervals, there is a kind of expectation of a surge of dread, but it goes nowhere, its been chopped of at its roots.

 

So far, no significant negative effects.

 

I still don't know what I'm going to do, I'm without a car most of the day, guess I will go make that tea and see what happens next

 

 

[Barbarannamated]

Great news, Petu! Thank you for sharing.

[mammaP]

That is amazing Petu, I'm so glad t's working for you and hope it continues. I ordered 

taurine myself after reading your experience yesterday and it arrived this morning,

can't believe it was so quick but here it is. I kept looking at the bottle and remembering the

niacin, and was a bit scared to even open it!! 

 

I hope your day stays a good one with many more to follow. 

[Petunia]

 I ordered taurine myself after reading your experience yesterday and it arrived this morning,

can't believe it was so quick but here it is. I kept looking at the bottle and remembering the

niacin, and was a bit scared to even open it!! 

 

 

 

So did you open it?  It may help with your sleeping problems.  So far, the only negative from it is that I'm a bit foggy with my thinking, its very much like taking a benzo, without the rebound.  It doesn't help with the physical symptoms, just seems to cut anxious thoughts and feelings off at their knees.

 

I've found that 250mg works just as well as 500mg, but its difficult opening the capsule and dividing the powder.  If this keeps working, I'm going to order some tablets which are easier to divide.  One dose for me lasts about 6 hours.  But even after 6 hours theres some residual effect, my horrendous cortisol mornings have been diminished down to about 25% and then about an hour after taking another taurine its pretty much gone.  But I'm still left with some shaking, inner trembling, chills, hot flashes, but without the associated fear and dread, they are just reduced to being uncomfortable physical sensations, which then slowly reduce as the day progresses.

 

I hope they help MammaP, try just taking 250mg or even less.

[alex]

, my horrendous cortisol mornings have been diminished down to about 25% and then about an hour after taking another taurine its pretty much gone.  But I'm still left with some shaking, inner trembling, chills, hot flashes, but without the associated fear and dread, they are just reduced to being uncomfortable physical sensations, which then slowly reduce as the day progresses.

 

 

 

That is good news Petu!!

It will be getting better;slowly but surely.

You have given the good fight, keep on going.

 

Hugs,A.

[PoisonPills]

I love reading your posts Petu; theyre wonderful and real and raw and inspiring. Youre a gifted and soulful writer. Oftentimes your posts speak to me in a profound way, offering lightbulb moments of insight and hope (and ideas!!). The paralells of our experiences kinda gobsmack me really. So thrilled to read the Taurine is bringing such relief for you. What an awesome birthday present

[Petunia]

Another taurine related update:

 

First the bad news, I've got terrible cog fog and I'm not sure if its related to too much taurine or just a symptom wave.  I've been taking it in doses of 250 and 500.  Anyway, I've got myself better organized now and have emptied out some capsules so I have some that are about 250mg, will stick with those for a couple of days see how I do.  Also, I've had physical symptoms quite badly this morning, which was disappointing after such a good day yesterday, was hoping this was going to be something of a turning point. Flat, miserable kind of mood.

 

Now the good news,  I went out to the store at 9am and shopped and managed to get my brain to cooperate well enough so that I could make some decisions about what to buy.  I felt like I was staggering around in a thick fog, but there was no anxiety.  No clarity or enjoyment or sense of fulfillment or anything like that, but now I have a slight sense of relief that I've managed to do what I needed to do.  I've got no car again for the rest of the day, so if I didn't get out early, I wouldn't have been able to get what I needed....and I ate something.

 

Today I have sinus congestion, right side of jaw aching, ear ache is back, tinnitus (that never goes), metallic taste in my mouth, aching/tension in neck and shoulders.  The shaking and chills have stopped now, still getting hot flushes though.

 

[mammaP]

That is such a shame Petu that it isn't still having the same effect for you. 

Maybe it is something that you would be able to use when you need to get

something special done, or when you have to go out for something important.

 

I did open them and took half a capsule, about 250mg about lunchtime but

I don't think it had any positive effect. I went to the shop under sufference  and

then went back to bed for the 3rd time yesterday! I took another 250 before bed

and didn't notice any difference, was wide awake when I went to bed and could have 

started doing things at 2.30am but wasn't sleepy. I didn't sleep during the day, my

body was aching badly and just had to lie down, get under the covers and hide. 

 

Didn't sleep very much at all, maybe an hour or so, and feel hot, headachey 

and very tired, flat and bleurgh! 

 

I discovered that my capsules are made up of one large part and one smaller that is 

exactly half the size of the whole capsule. I opened it up and filled the small half with

powder then just swallowed that powder with water.  Then put the 2 halves back together

for the next dose, if you get what I mean. 

 

I will try it again  but not today, I don't feel well and not sure if it is physical so will just stick with

what I'm used to for now.  I hope your window opens again Petu, it was really good to see you

feeling better.  At any rate it was a taster of what is in store for you and something to look forward to.

[Petunia]

Thanks everyone for your comments and support.

 

MammaP - I'm so sorry the taurine hasn't helped.  As I discovered yesterday, they don't help with physical symptoms or anything not related to thinking and emotions (if you know what I mean)  Although I did notice that my eye sight wasn't so blurry this morning.  I've read that taurine is good for some part of the eye.

 

Another taurine related update:

 

Yesterday was a bad day and it confused 'things'.  After 2 much improved days, which I was relating to the taurine, yesterday confused and disappointed me.  But I was certain that the taurine was helping with something, and it still is.

 

Yesterday I had a lot of horrible physical symptoms and I'm not sure how much of it was related to withdrawal.  I felt sore and achy all over, there was a lot of pain in the right side of my head, blocked sinuses, clouded thinking, headache.  I had gone for a long walk the day before, which I had enjoyed, but perhaps I overdid it?  Because it seemed like my one day of 'relief' was over, and that was all I was going to get, I was miserable again and depressed and feeling like all my hopes had been crushed.

 

But underneath all of that, I was still free from surges of anxious dreadful thoughts and feelings, which usually dominate my entire mornings and flare up in the afternoons and evenings in response to emotional triggers.  Physically, I was feeling awful, but I was still free from that one particular symptom.

 

Since I started taking them, I'm now waking up 'normally'.  Previously I would wake suddenly with my mind instantly slammed into top gear. Every morning for the last 2 - 3 years, this is what its been like, being peacefully asleep and then shocked into a horrible waking state, not much different than what it would be like to be woken by a loud siren, a bright light and a stream of freezing water at 5am, that's what its felt like anyway.  But that's over now. And I don't need to use ear plugs and an eye mask any more.  It seems to be dependent on taking taurine though.

 

Today is day 4.  I'm taking 250mg now, 6am, about lunch time and then 11pm.  I notice when it wears off, but even when it does, I don't go back to the extreme state of terror like I was in before.  There were a few very mild surges this morning, after I had woken up, but now, its completely gone and at 7:30 in the morning, for me, this is a miracle.  I can feel the effects of all this ongoing trauma starting to lift from my body.  Still a bit shaky, still getting a few chills, right side of jaw still aches, but I'm not filled with dread, expecting that some unnamed horror is about to occur.  I needed a break from this, whatever it was, it had become like a kind of self-fuelling entity.  The fear of it was adding more stress, which in turn was adding more fear.  The relief I got at night helped, as long as I did nothing which triggered the fear response and because I was/am so sensitive, that meant there really wasn't much that I was capable of doing.  Next morning the whole cycle would start over again, undoing any progress I may have made the night before.

 

So in some ways, I have a feeling that my 'real' recovery can begin now.  It seems that for me, taurine is 'fixing' that one particular withdrawal symptom which was causing ongoing damage to my nervous system.  Maybe I'm taurine deficient. Maybe my body doesn't make it the way its supposed to.  Perhaps all those years on drugs ruined my brain's little taurine making system.

 

I don't know, but I'm feeling a bit better again today and can see a light at the end of the tunnel again and usually I don't see that light until it starts to get dark at night, but its 8am, so this feels like real progress.

[Petunia]

Very quick little update:

 

I've been taking taurine for 4 days now, have settled on 250mg 3 times a day.  I just got back from the mall and this is the first time in ages that I've been there and everything hasn't looked all weird and distorted, I've still got some fairly intense physical symptoms going on, but they are easy to deal with now that I'm not overwhelmed with fear and dread all the time.

 

I wandered around, in pain, but feeling like I didn't have a care in the world, nothing aroused any bad feelings and driving is easy again, even though it was VERY hot and my car didn't cool down.

 

Taurine seems to have cured my daytime agoraphobia

[mammaP]

That is brilliant Petu! Who would have thought it!! 

[alex]

GOOD!!!

I am so glad for you dear Petu.

You are on your way to recovery, no doubt about it.

 

Hugs,A.

[Wolfhound]

Petu,

you are a sweetheart and you deserve immensely to feel better.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I started the taurine because you had such a good benefit from it. Mine was not as dramatic but I am starting out much slower than you. I won't be able to tell yet but it might be having some dampening effect in my morning anger over sleeplessness. I hope it keeps having a good effect on you, I had no idea your suffering has been so intense for so long. I feel for you, you have no idea. That you can write so well in the midst of your struggle is amazing.

[bubble]

I wonder what happens when Petu takes a break from the forum. Hope it means there is more energy to engage in life outside...

 

just wanted to say hi  

[Petunia]

Hi Bubble,

Thanks for wondering about me.

 

No, I haven't had more energy for other things, in fact its the opposite.  There are two major changes for me, one is related to taking taurine and the other one, I'm not sure, but I don't think so.

 

The constant fight or flight reaction which I was experiencing throughout the day, for about 27 months has now stopped, which is a good thing, but it seems to have been replaced with exhaustion.  Not that I wasn't exhausted a lot before, but I had energy from the fear response, which I learned how to direct into various things, not now.  I'm still reading here on the site, a bit, but I have zero emotional energy.  I keep falling asleep, I can read for an hour or two, then I fall asleep.  This is wonderful for me because I haven't been able to fall asleep during the day, even though I've been exhausted, the 'fear' would keep waking me up with surges of panic.

 

I'm worried about 'what's happening to me now'.  This is different.  The constant fear response cycle seems to have broken, but my life hasn't suddenly improved, its like I now have even 'less' control.  I don't recognize myself again.

 

I went with mum and daughter to a 'psychic fair' yesterday afternoon.  I had no interest in it really, I went because they wanted to go.  I felt very strange, there was no fear or anxiety.... I don't know, I can't describe it.  I was there, my body was there, I was obviously alive and walking around and talking to various people, but something huge was missing and its making me feel quite nauseous just thinking about it.  The vendors were doing their best to convince me to buy things and to believe in the stories about their products and I was remembering back to a time when I would have believed what they were saying and probably bought something.  Their was a tiny, little urge to challenge what they were saying, but no energy and more of a sense that their beliefs were working for them and other people and to leave it alone.  It was mostly annoying, I just wanted to browse through the various 'things' just looking, letting my senses enjoy the experience, but these people wanted to engage me in their stories, maybe wanting to 'help', maybe wanting to sell me something, I don't know.  It was difficult but easy at the same time. 

 

Mum and daughter seemed to have a good time, not great, but a pleasant activity for an afternoon, we went and got a coffee after and daughter told us the details of the 'reading' she got.  She wasn't particularly impressed and realized that it had been fake, but had found it an interesting experience.  I never would have spent that much money of a fake reading for myself, but I did for her because she wanted the 'experience'.  The guy who did her reading to me seemed arrogant with a big ego, very pushy, but she 'liked' him, that was until she had got the reading.  'A fool and their money are soon parted', so I felt a bit foolish, but it was for a good cause, my daughter had something interesting to put up on facebook.

 

The other thing is that I've been in a lot of pain since last Monday.  I'm not sure if its withdrawal related or not.  It was along the right side of my head, down into my neck and shoulder, but now its just located in my lower right jaw.  It comes and goes, sometimes is really bad, can't eat properly.  At other times, I can't feel it.

 

Bubble, I don't know what's happening.  I'm obviously still alive, but its like that fear/dread/panic was the last thing holding me together,  it was killing me, but it was something which gave me substance, if that makes any sense, that fear/panic was like the core of my identity, everything else which was 'me' was gone, that was all that was left.  Now that's gone and all I have left of 'me' is an intermittent agonizing pain in the right side of my head.

 

I was reading some blogs yesterday, written by people with various chronic illness - CFS and dysautonamia, one by a woman with extreme chemical sensitivites.  The difference between them and me is that even though their illness has stripped away huge parts of their lives and identities, they still retain a core identity, which is the fuel which drives their remaining life.

 

There is nothing left of me here that I recognize..... and yet, something types.  I don't know what this is that's animating this body, I certainly don't trust it.

 

I cut the taurine down to twice a day, 250mg twice a day, which is a very low dose, but even when I've been without it for over 10 hours, the fear doesn't return.  There is still some inner shaking, vibrations, hot flashes and sweating, but the psychological dread/terror is gone..... and I'm feeling like I have no anchor, no point of reference to turn to for who I am.

 

Anyway, I'm going to stop rambling because I don't think this is making much sense..... so yes, to answer your 'question' Bubble, I'm still here, but I don't know who I am and I keep falling asleep. 

 

After having read what I just wrote, looking at it from a withdrawal perspective, I think I'm experiencing extreme DP/DR, I hope it settles down soon so I can continue recovering.

 

[Narcissus]

Petu, my friend!  I'm sure it's not much of a comfort to you, but you really are so eloquent!  It's a pleasure to read your ruminations on whatever's happening to you, even if what you're describing is mostly pain.  

 

 

 

The constant fight or flight reaction which I was experiencing throughout the day, for about 27 months has now stopped, which is a good thing, but it seems to have been replaced with exhaustion.

This seems like a common pattern.  27 months, that must have been hell.  How long has the exhaustion been effect?  Does it let up occasionally?

 

 

 

I was there, my body was there, I was obviously alive and walking around and talking to various people, but something huge was missing and its making me feel quite nauseous just thinking about it. 

 

I know EXACTLY what you mean, and as always, it's eerie.  Wouldn't it be nice if we could all identify with each other through all the nice things we experienced?  Here it's always, "Aha!  I recognize that horrific indescribable psycho-physical situation exactly!"  Sigh.

 

I think I know what you mean about the psychic people...I feel very, very suspicious of people who are trying to help me in some impersonal way, doctors, counselors etc...suspicion isn't quite the right word.  It's not as if I really think about it, it's as if the resistance is built right into my body...and when it manifests itself it becomes an urge to challenge them.  I wonder if you're experiencing something similar.  It's so weird because I was never like this in the past.  Doesn't sound like you were either.
 

 

 

it was killing me, but it was something which gave me substance, if that makes any sense, that fear/panic was like the core of my identity, everything else which was 'me' was gone, that was all that was left.  

 

The feeling of disentegration you keep describing sounds a lot like passages in the Buddhist works I've been reading.  I'm wondering if it isn't entirely a bad thing.  Goethe says we have to die to ourselves in order to live, and as people have posted here, the great myths always make their heroes undergo some sort of descent/disintegration.  You may be more 'on track' than you think.  Did you look at the thread here, I think it's called "The Descent Experience"?  

[bubble]

Oh my, Petu.

 

I was in a way 'on call' this weekend and noticed something was unusual: not only were you not posting in your own thread but you were not posting for others as you usually do.

 

Your as always accurate, articulate and lucid account is extremely interesting. As Narcissus said, we absolutely don't feel you are no longer there or that your core identity has been changed or that it has gone. I very much feel you still there and emanating the essence of Petu, if I can say that. The only thing that I notice to be different is your town which comesa cross as more subdued than usually (and in quite contrast to your recent post after you started taking Taurine which were more upbeat than your regular ones).

 

I had one very strong impression aftre reading your first account about the Taurine experience. It was something like: OMG, this is so very strange, somehow unnatural, something similar to how drugs manipulate the way we feel and consequently who we come across as being. Yes, anxiety-free state is something we are all striving for but I was thinking that I would feel utterly naked shoudl I be stripped of my anxiety at once. Over the past few years I've known long periods without anxiety. Even some miraculous morning waking up with a smile on my face and feeling excited about the day ahead. But this always came impercetibly, like it sneaked out on me so gradual it was. That's why I felt kind of scared about the Taurine effect you have been describing. 

 

The second thing I find very interesting is the exchange of anxious, fight or flight mechanism with the one characterized by lack of emotional and physical energy, general fatigue, sleepiness and emotional detachment (which you call DP/DR). This is actually what happens to me on a regular basis: I have periods of anxiety replaced by periods of lethargy frequently, sometimes even on a daily basis. Actually, these two systems are definitely connected and inter-dependant. My first ‘diagnosis’ (which was actually a description of my state) was anxiety-depressive disorder. I began to see it as a natural response of a malfunctioning system: after all the mobilization of physical and mental energy that anxiety induces, our body and mind protect themselves by switching off to allow for a period of recharging when we just sleep or accumulate energy in some other ways. I can’t explain this better but I hope you understand what I mean.

 

I’ve been operating like this for almost half of my life: 18 years and was the same as you, grateful for periods when I could sleep even at the expense of lack of energy, loss of my creativity and all other higher forms of cognitive functioning. Now almost everybody knows me as somebody who is extremely tired, just looks for an opportunity to lay her head down and is in general awfully sluggish. Nobody remembers that lively and energetic person I once was. (Actually I do have periods when I get hypomanic: the energy I feel tan is so unpleasant and hard to control so people find me strange). I never explored CFS because I just accepted that this was a part of my ‘condition’ (didn’t even think of blaming it on the meds) and thought it a minor complaint compared to dreadful anxiety or anhedonia on the other side.

 

I recognize the feelings you are describing at the fair as very familiar too. I would see them as a form of extreme emotional detachment and yes, as a loss of my core identity that had an opinion on things, was active and engaged. I would also connect it with anhedonia: I don’t care about what other people are doing, I have lost that self that feels the reality and responds to it, I don’t feel myself so everything that other people do doesn’t make sense either. How can somebody be a ballet dancer? Where do they find the energy for that? What’s the point of all that??? (I would somehow understand better concrete forms of human activity (agriculture or money making) and was especially estranged from more ephemeral ones- so out of character for somebody who chose to study literature).

 

This is rambling indeed but I’m really fascinated by what is going on with you. (Sorry for the use of this word when you are in distress ;(

I believe that if you stop taking Taurine, after a while your familiar 27 month of painful existence will be restored. It’s just my gut feeling. As I said, my experience has been that you either have one system on or the other, anxiety pole or depression pole (for lack of better word). For instance, after my tremendous emotional upheaval of the previous week, I spent the whole weekend sleeping but I had emotional energy flowing (and was catching up with people on the forum). So in my case I think it was a healthy reaction although I had to cancel my social arrangements and felt isolated at times. It’s strange how we seem to have to choose between feeling anxious and feeling lifeless. Maybe I’m wrong but that’s how I feel it.

 

In conclusion, wherever this peculiar metamorphosis takes you, we very much feel your core identity. Plus you are describing things I was never able to or would never see them in that light so I find it extremely valuable. I just wonder what gave that Taurine the power to shift things from the anxiety to the depressive pole… I’d like to understand the mechanism although for me the idea that our body wants to restore itself is almost enough of an explanation.

 

I’m again acutely aware of how grateful I am to be a part of this community. Without it, we would be totally isolated in times of encountering some of the most painful and scariest of human experiences that strike at the very core of what being human is.

 

I’m glad we are here for each other and whatever happens next, you know you won’t be alone…

 

Big hug,

bubble

[JanCarol]

 

Thinking about it now, the last few times I've taken a shower, I haven't felt that feeling of dread and vulnerability which has been a constant, that sense that something very bad is about to happen and its too much of a risk to get naked and into the shower, I need to be prepared and alert, can't let my guard down for a moment...... yes, that's what its been like.  Not worth the risk.  Four years ago I would have been perfectly at home on one of those 'clothing optional' beaches, taking full advantage of the choice, but now..... its beyond weird, who am I?   (26 October 2013)

Oh Petu!

 

I thought I was the only person in the world who hates the shower!  The shock of the water pelting down on you, the confinement of the glass cage.  Blech!  I love to be clean, but the shower is not my first choice!

 

I know, I'm only halfway through reading your story (I can never seem to catch things in a timely manner, but it doesn't mean I care any less!), and I really relate to the "global vision crisis" or whatever you called it.  Mine started at 9/11, in America.  As I watched the world that I knew come undone - and yet - those in power behaving as they always did, making wars, making money, instilling fear, etc. etc.  I'm not sure how you reconcile these things with day to day living.  Most of my friends (including hubby) are just like, "Oh, there she goes again. . . "

 

What touches me the most is how you, during all this time, go round visiting threads, offering kind words of support, while you yourself have been going through hell.  You are an amazing, courageous, compassionate, gifted woman, Petu!

 

I'll try to shut up until I've read it all.  I just couldn't believe that someone else hates showers, too - people look at me strange when I say I don't like them!  

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Oh dear, Petu! I hope whatever is going on with you settles soon, I had no idea how bad things were for you. I would guess it is good that the constant fear and dread has been replaced by sleepiness, that surely has to be very healing. And I have to say I am jealous. My somewhat constant alertness in the wee hours of the morning is preventing any kind of deep sleep. I have to admit I am jealous of those who can sleep during the day.

[Altostrata]

So good to hear you've found a bit of relief, dear Petu.

 

As for the shower -- after I saw Psycho in college, I've had clear plastic shower curtains ever since. I can't bear to be closed in and not being able to see out in the shower.

[Petunia]

Thank you Narc, Bubble, JC and CW for your posts.  I really, really want to write heaps in response to what you have all written, so much of it is accurate and so thought provoking, but I have this incredible conflict going on inside me now.  On one side, there is the urge to just be still and watch everything.  But then there is something left of the old, familiar me that wants to get back in there and engage, but I'm afraid its going to ....... what?  I'm not sure, but physically, I'm feeling extremely fragile and vulnerable, this is so hard to put into words but I have a sense, (not thought or belief), that my body is under incredible stress right now and I'm not sure what I should or shouldn't do.

 

The fearful thoughts are gone, but in their place are waves of heat, sweating and dizziness. Maybe I just need to try and relax and trust that everything is ok.  What Narcissus wrote about 'dissolution' and being on track might actually be true, if it is, the reality of it is nothing like what I expected.

 

Hopefully, later today I will be able to write more, I just woke up and I'm feeling more disoriented than normal.  But one thing I've noticed about myself since starting on tourine and losing the psychological fear, which was a big part of 'me', is that I've been clinging onto the medical/sickness perspective of this process like as if my life depended on it.  Previously, I've seen it also as as spiritual, evolutionary, kind of process as in shamanic journey, kundalini, ascension and awakening to reality..... that kind of thing.  

 

...... I'm too confused to write any more, maybe Bubble is right about tourine working too much like a drug and its basically suppressed too much of  a part of me that I still need to be working through naturally.  That's making sense because since taking it, my physical symptoms have become worse, its like something is trying to work itself out through me and if it can't do it one way, its going to do it another way.... does that make any sense?  Nothing is making sense to me at the moment.

 

How can I be writing in any one else's thread, trying to help them when I'm in this much mess myself, I have no idea if what I'm writing is sounding like psychotic babbling or new age woo woo nonsense or if it actually makes sense.

 

I don't like this feeling of having lost my core self, but I'm scared to stop taking the tourine because there would be nothing worse than have that psychological  fear/dread/panic come back, this physical kind is bad, but nothing is as torturous as that.

 

I will write more later...

[Barbarannamated]

Petu,

 

You may feel disoriented, but you are making perfect sense, so please don't concern yourself with that.

 

I believe I've had episodes of what you're experiencing now. I called it a "deadness of being". It is a horrid feeling and so polar opposite of anxiety. Anxiety, as awful as it can be, is a type of energy or life force, in my experience. When that disappeared, it was like the world stopped and I was left completely ungrounded, in freefall.

 

I hope you feel a bit better soon.