☼ Petunia: recovering from 13 years of antidepressant use

[Petunia]

Thanks everyone, still not feeling well, not up to posting right now.  I've stopped the green smoothies and Black Cohosh, in case either of those is what's caused this.  A return to early withdrawal intensity, feelings of terror, losing touch with what's actually real.  Body vibrations and tinnitus have ramped up.

 

I'm scared about what this means.  Just a wave?  I'm not getting better? Something more serious?

 

My daughter is leaving for Japan soon, I will be by myself for 4 months, through winter.  I'm scared to be alone when I'm feeling like this.  But when I'm like this, being around other people seems to increase the anxiety, so it doesn't make any sense.  Nothing is making sense at the moment.

 

Still taking taurine and magnesium, they help.

[Altostrata]

Oh, hugs, Petu. I wish I could be there.

[Petunia]

Thank you Alto.

 

The wave continues.  Last night I didn't sleep.  I got an hour or two, but then woke up at 1:30.  After that, I was getting surges of adrenaline and heat every time I started to fall back to sleep, so I gave up trying to sleep and listened to sleep hypnosis audio the rest of the night, it kept me calm, sort of.

 

This is a huge step back for me, I haven't laid awake all night since the first half of 2012.  I'm scared that I'm not going to be able to sleep again.  There was one thing I did different yesterday, I had a small cup of decaffeinated chai tea in the evening, I've never drank it so late before.  Even though its decaff, I'm wondering if the spices in it had some effect on me.

 

I can feel myself getting depressed about my situation. I'm losing hope again.  Getting triggered more easily again, feeling like I've lost all the progress I've made over the last year.  I know I haven't, but because I'm feeling so bad, as bad as the early days, its triggering those memories and I seem to be reliving them, like a trauma flashback.  I went through some very stressful life events while being in acute withdrawal and now I'm getting flashbacks.

 

Its like I'm dealing with more than I can handle, I'm getting flashbacks to my trauma filled past, going through current physical symptoms and they trigger fear and worry about an uncertain future.  Its a cycle which keeps going around and around.

 

I'm like a deer caught in headlights, scared to move, scared that anything I do is going to make me even worse.  As much as I know about windows and waves, I still keep looking for pattens, trying to link my symptoms to something I have done or not done, trying to get a sense of control over this.

 

Yesterday I was thinking of this wave as a kind of punishment or warning because I had been feeling better and was starting to relax and believe I had a future.  I took steps to improve my diet with the smoothies and ordered puppy equipment so I would have what I needed and could get a dog.  Now its like I was poisoning myself with smoothies and if I get a puppy I wont be able to take care of it properly and it will get neglected or cause more stress.  So...... I just feel completely stuck.

 

I'm still going for short walks, but they have started to feel scary again, not as bad as it was at first, but its a step back.

 

I'm sorry I'm not posting on anyone else's thread at the moment, but its as much as I can do to hold onto my own sanity right now.  I'm really scared and feel like I need some help, sometimes I imagine going to the doctor (a new one), and telling her my symptoms and asking to be tested for various things.  Then I imagine various outcomes.  1. the tests all come back negative and I get offered anti-depressants or 2. my hormone levels are off or thyroid or cortisol, but the 'treatment' for that (drugs), doesn't help and causes me to feel even worse.

 

I took some Black Cohosh again a couple of hours ago, thinking that maybe they had been helping with the hot flashes.

[Meimeiquest]

No words, just hugs

[alex]

Dear Petu, I am so sorry that you are feeling so bad.

For my experience, 10 months off could be very bad.

I started to see improvement at 15 months aprox.

This is so gradual and painful...I am in a wave right now, and the first thing that comes to my mind is if I'm going to have the strength to endure this ordeal.

But we do, and when the windows come, hope is renewed.

 

What can I say...hang in there.

 

I am with you.

[bubble]

Dear Petu,

 

I'm thinking about you a lot and I'm so glad you posted. 

 

I'm also at a loss for words because you say it all. I also see myself in awful states trying to get a sense of control over things by desperately seeking out what might have triggered it. I think it is a healthy impulse: organising one's condition can sometimes be the only thing that helps managing it.

 

I also totally understand your need to visit a doctor of a sort. I do this once in a while myself. Hoping that if I find somebody new and tell them about my situation, they will at least come up with a fresh perspective on things. Once I ended up being advised to take a drug that will so nicely 'fix my frontal lobe'. In such situations I just thank politely and walk away. I don't even argue (and there is no coercion because I manage to hold out my front and remain in control). 

 

I think I survived such states allowing myself to consider absolutely everything that crossed my mind in the attempt of bringing me some relief. I didn't pursue most of the things but would end up with an occasional visit to a homeopath or o naturopath. It gave me hope and strength to endure. And that's all I needed. (wasted some money in the process, ocassionaly felt stupid but no other harm done: once I actually ended up telling a healer off for taking money of poor pensioners when I was 20. I came there all depressed and in a cramp of anxiety and walked out with a huge man telling me: this was brave, you are brave.)

 

Yes, when our ego is at our most vulnerable, all fears and hurts buried in the subconscious mind are only too happy to use the opportunity to make themselves present. I don't know what can help with those ;( Practicing acceptance? Trying to look them in the eye and not being frightened? But then again what would enable us not to be frightened of them? Maybe just awareness that they can't harm us for all their nastiness, awareness that by being brought to light they will actually lose some of their toxicity, even if we think they are stronger and will always be stronger than us?

 

You started by saying THE WAVE continues (but it's so horrible and long that it's hard to believe it but it is.) And their very nature is that they pass. Eventually. 

 

Thinking it's a punishment just shows you have a Christian background (and in such states we don't remember the other part of Christianity:  “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. or all those beautiful psalms about suffering...

 

Don't worry about not posting, be gentle with yourself about everything, treat yourself like a little baby crying in distress. 

 

You are such a beautiful person and we love you very much.

 

Psalm 102[a]

A prayer of an afflicted person who has grown weak and pours out a lament before the Lord.

1 Hear my prayer, Lord;
    let my cry for help come to you.
2 Do not hide your face from me
    when I am in distress.
Turn your ear to me;
    when I call, answer me quickly.

3 For my days vanish like smoke;
    my bones burn like glowing embers.
4 My heart is blighted and withered like grass;
    I forget to eat my food.
5 In my distress I groan aloud
    and am reduced to skin and bones.
6 I am like a desert owl,
    like an owl among the ruins.
7 I lie awake; I have become
    like a bird alone on a roof.
8 All day long my enemies taunt me;
    those who rail against me use my name as a curse.
9 For I eat ashes as my food
    and mingle my drink with tears
10 because of your great wrath,
    for you have taken me up and thrown me aside.
11 My days are like the evening shadow;
    I wither away like grass.

12 But you, Lord, sit enthroned forever;
    your renown endures through all generations.
13 You will arise and have compassion on Zion,
    for it is time to show favor to her;
    the appointed time has come.
14 For her stones are dear to your servants;
    her very dust moves them to pity.
15 The nations will fear the name of the Lord,
    all the kings of the earth will revere your glory.
16 For the Lord will rebuild Zion
    and appear in his glory.
17 He will respond to the prayer of the destitute;
    he will not despise their plea.

[mammaP]

Popping in to give you a big hug Petu. Remember that throughout this wave we

are here mentally holding your hand and leading you through it. It will pass and 

when it does you will be stronger than you were before it hit.  

I think you should go ahead and get the puppy. You have kept going for your

daughter while you've been going through withdrawal and when she leaves for Japan 

you will have little reason to get out of bed on bad days. My little dog Lady kept me

going for 4 years when I could barely function.  You WILL take care of it and love it,

and will get that love back 100 fold. 

 

A hug from all of us here at SA, 

 

[Nikki]

Petu....

 

Every single thought and feeling is something we have all been thru.  This morning the word desperation came to mind.  I see it in your post.  I understand everything you described.  What you are experiencing is the tragedy behind all of these drugs. 
They brings us to this state of mind.

 

When I am feeling poorly and I think of my daughter moving I become filled with panic, and then when I am okay I think of how nice it would be to live alone.  It's fear.  I know for myself I get so scared by all of this and I suppose  that is anxiety at it's highest.

 

In these states all of the negatives and fear escalate and then when it subsides it is such a relief and we know we can go on.

 

Alex said he had it bad at 10 months off and then at 15 he started to feel much better.  Maybe it would be good for you to PM or post to those who have been where you are at now and doing well.  Meimquest, MamaP, Alex, Bubble.

 

You have always been there for me and I would like to extend that kindness.  You can talk to me at any time.

 

I have a good feeling that this is going to pass.   Puppies are sheer joy   It may help you distract yourself from this phase and help you when you daughter moves. 

 

Hugs

[lexicon]

My dear Petu,

 

I am deeply saddened that you are not feeling well You are beloved to me, as you are to many ..We want you well, healthy, and strong ..

 

My arms cannot reach to hold you, and so I hold you in thought, and prayer ..

 

May you feel better soon, may you emerge from this terrible wave with energy and vigor, with wellness, and healing.

 

Please remember to keep "walking" .. Soon you will reach the end of the tunnel ..And this nightmare will be over ..

 

((( hugs )))

 

Lexi

[JanCarol]

Oh Petu!  Seems trite, but "This Too Shall Pass."

 

I've read your whole thread, it took a month to do it!  And what I see here most is how much people are helped by you, even when you are in your deepest pains.  It is amazing how your descriptions of your depths and suffering rallies people around you to say, "Me too! You said that like I could never!" and then how much caring you have shared on other people's threads, including mine.

 

Take the rest you need, keep things simple and know that you have a whole, virtual community here supporting you, riding along with you - and no matter the hour, day or night, someone is on here, listening.

 

As for the puppy dilemma.  I'll tell a little story.  I loved my dogs.  I raised 3 dobermans, and one mixed breed border collie / golden retriever cross.  I loved running them and running with them, I loved giving them "things to do" and purpose - things that doggies love.  I loved cuddling them and including them in all aspects of my life.  The little border/golden dog had fans at the fast food drive through who would give her free french fries!  They were fit and free and maybe I wasn't the most responsible owner (dobermans in a 1 bedroom apartment?  Yes, I did that), but we had great times together.

 

After the first marriage, the antidepressant "trials" had begun, and the ex- got custody of the little border/golden dog (she was the best!).  I had always had cats, I had 3 at the time.  Then one died, one went to live at a farm, and I was left with the one cat who had been with me through all of this.

 

And every time I think:  a dachshund!  Maybe a little foxy terrier! Oh, aren't those little fluffy lhasa apso dogs adorable!  Just a *little* dog - maybe?  The dobermans were large, and the border/golden girl was about 35 pounds - and yes, they were a lot of work.  I believe that a dog should run a mile every day for every 10 pounds of weight.  So the Dobers needed 5 miles a day, the border/golden 3.5.  Well, a little 4 pound dog could get by on a kilometer a day!  Maybe ? 

 

But I realize:  there are times when my cat is begging for attention and I'm not willing or able to give it - and a doggie is 100% ON, waiting for the "puppy part."  They will "go lie down" but they are still waiting for the Puppy Part.  Cats, when ignored, just say, "Meh.  See you later."  

 

Plus, "doggy etiquette" in the parks is different.  I have to carry bags and pick up hot steaming poo - I didn't have to do that in the 80's.  Maybe I was being rude, but it wasn't in the code back then.  Can I face that?  I'm less sure. 

 

Therefore, I am no longer a doggie mom.  I am a kitty mom - not because I don't love dogs, but because I love dogs so much that I feel I cannot do them justice, give them the commitment and attention they require.  Consider a kitty?  So that you can be responsible for another life, and enjoy the comfort of a companion without the commitment of a doggy?  (god knows I wish my neighbors were more committed to their doggies, we've got rampant yards with barking dogs nearly 24/7, feels like Duck Dynasty around here).  The flip side of kitties is, however, that when you are down in the dumps and want to have a cry, they may or may not be available to you (depending on temperament) but the doggie always is.

 

You are special, intelligent, amazing, compassionate, empathic, intuitive and did I say amazing?  Believe it, even if you can only do one word at a time!  I know I'm not the only one to think so!  Thank you for sharing your journey thus far.  <3

[lobster]

Im very sorry you aren't feeling well. I just want you to know im thinking of you and hoping this wave ends for you soon :-)

[Petunia]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful and supportive posts.  I wish I had it in me to comment on sections of all of them, I want to, but just can't do it.  The comments, advice and stories about pets have been helpful, but I'm still very confused about what to do.  I'm almost certain I have more going on 'here' than withdrawal.  I've had patterns running through my whole life and I'm seeing them clearer now than ever before.

 

I'm managing to trace things back to their roots in my childhood and see that many of my choices and decisions in life have come from my dysfunctional upbringing.  There's nothing wrong with getting a pet, but if my motivation is coming from somewhere unhealthy, then I'm not doing myself any good by just going with the impulse.

 

I've had some fairly deep insights about myself over the last few days and in the long run, its probably a good thing, but at the moment, I'm feeling very unbalanced and not knowing how to move through this.  I've got some serious abandonment issues through being emotionally neglected (abused).  I've known it for quite a long time, didn't think it was such a big deal really because many people don't get the kind of parenting they really need in order to be the best they can be.  But I've just started to really get it at a deeper level, emotionally and make the connections and see myself at various stages of life and how this early wound has played out over my whole life and just how much damage its done to my whole life and how much ongoing pain its caused and how there is nothing I can do to get back the lost years.

 

I'm seeing this great big clear picture with lots of connections and its not nice. 

 

Getting a puppy fits in with my ongoing patterns of dysfunction.  I've always 'needed' helpless, dependent creatures, things to take care of in order to feel there was meaning to my own existence.  I've never been able to just take care of me and have it be enough.  I don't have my own core of value.  This probably isn't very unusual, I'm sure lots of people were raised in a similar way as I was.  But I'm seeing it in myself, the pattern, passed from my parents, down to me and then in my own behavior.

 

Yesterday, after I dropped my daughter off at work, I realized I was going to be by myself for the rest of the weekend.  The surge of panic I felt was as if I was a baby, being abandoned by its parents.  This isn't about loneliness or wanting social activity.  I went to a gym and found out about memberships, went and bought some food for dinner later and thought about all the ways I could meet people, but it wasn't helping, its something deeper.

 

Whatever is going on for me isn't anything I can fix by changing anything outside of myself.  Later in the day I walked to the park, sat down on a bench and watched people.  There were a lot of people around, couples and single people, but what was different was that almost everyone I saw had a dog.  It was very strange, usually, the occasional person has a dog, but yesterday, everyone did.  I was trying to pay attention to how things were making me feel and what my thoughts were saying.  Yesterday, there was nothing I thought about which seemed to provide a possible solution.  I could clearly see that dogs and relationships were just another layer of denial over something deeper which I needed to deal with.

 

I need to learn how to take care of myself.  But more than that, I need to find that place where I'm enough, just the way I am, to deserve being taken care of.  I'm not certain about this, but I think I'm at a place in my life where I have an opportunity to do something about a very deep, core wound.  I'm struggling to take care of myself, not only because of withdrawal issues, but because under even those is a belief that I don't deserve to be taken care of unless I'm fulfilling a need for someone else.  So going and getting a puppy is just more of my old pattern.  Get something else to take care of, rather than learn how to take care of myself.  Make someone else happy, rather than figure out how to make myself happy.  Devote my life to fixing other people's lives, rather than fixing my own.  Design a perfect balanced diet and lifestyle for my pets, and ignore my own needs.

 

I really don't know how to start with fixing up my own life, because at my core, there is a belief that I don't even deserve to have a life, so that's where I need to start, but I don't think getting something outside of myself to take care of is really what I need to do.  Its an impulse, a quick fix kind of response to feeling scared and alone and maybe I do need some kind of pet, but I just don't know if it would be part of my problem or part of a solution.

 

If I continue this pattern of other people and animals being the reason for my existence, then I'm never going to develop a core sense of value and any relationship I have is going to be coming from a place of weakness and vulnerability.

 

My daughter is only going to Japan for 4 months, she is doing a semester of study there, but it feels so final to me.  I'm not sure why.  I'm terrified in one way, but I also see it as an opportunity to stand face to face with myself and find out who I really am underneath all the masks and roles which I have used to define and justify my existence.

 

I could run around in a panic and create a whole lot of new roles to hide in, or I could continue to sit still and go inside to see what's actually there.  Something someone wrote has been in my mind.  I think it may have been MammaP, when she wrote about a dog giving her a reason to get out of bed.  Reading that caused a surge of panic.  I was thinking, OMG, I better hurry and get a dog or I will stay in bed and spiral down into an even worse state of chronic depression and die and be found days later and ...... well, horrible, nameless, painful (for other people) situation.  I have to get a dog to protect other people from the pain they would experience from my getting sicker and possibly dying..... you see, its my pattern, my thoughts always go to other people, not myself.

 

What about if I wanted to just lay in bed day after day?  Maybe I need to get to a point where the only person I have to get out of bed for is myself, then I will find out if I'm worth getting out of bed for.  This is very frightening to think about because I'm not sure about what I will find.  Maybe it will come down the the fact that I'm not worth it.... that there really is no value in me apart from my value to something outside of myself..... and I include in that God..... an image or idea of an external God who I need to be pleasing to in order to be loved.  I've always found it oddly interesting that 'dog' is 'god' spelled backwards.

 

This time last year, when my physical symptoms were more intense on a regular basis and lasted much longer through the day, it was more of a physical struggle to take care of myself, so it was like I was fighting with a more familiar enemy.  Now I'm fighting with shadow elements of myself I've never met before.... I don't recognize anything about the situation or know how to proceed, or even if this really is true.

 

Something is telling me to keep still, not do anything, just wait.  I've never had an extended period of my life without a significant relationship, pets, dependent child.  Now I have an opportunity to find out what that's like.  Can I just be, for myself alone?  Am I enough?  I have a suspicion that if I don't get this sorted out, then an unconscious fear of abandonment is going to haunt me for the rest of my life.  I need to figure out how to give myself a core value, an inner sense of my own goodness.  I'm not sure if its possible, but I think I have to try.

 

I remember one particular day about 15 years ago.  My (then) husband was at work and my daughter was at school and I was alone that day with nothing to do.  I tried to do something just for me, something I would enjoy.  I took my old kite that I had been given as a gift out of storage and took it to the park to fly.  But I was just going through the motions, inside was a deep feeling of emptiness and meaninglessness, I wasn't capable of being in that moment and getting pleasure out of what I was doing because I couldn't seem to connect with my own experience, it was as if I needed someone else to be having fun, so that I could see it mirrored back to me.  I think I had recently started taking Zoloft and it had put me into a kind of depression..... maybe this is all just withdrawal playing tricks on me, making me think its more.  I'm bouncing back and forth between anxiety and depression without much of anything in between now.  Physical symptoms have reduced again, as long as I don't change anything, or encounter any stress or exercise more than a short gentle walk.

 

Thank you for being here and for ongoing support, I've been trying to keep up with everyone by reading posts, but I'm finding that much of what I'm reading is triggering me, or bringing up my own shadow material, which isn't helpful for anyone else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[areyouthere]

Follow your gut. Find that person that just needs to be recognized and just sit with her. She's been waiting for you and maybe it's the right time for you to get acquainted!!!

 

RU

[alex]

One piece of advise Petu: try to keep it simple...focus on coping.

Be gentle and compassionate to yourself.

Please.

 

Hugs,A.

[Petunia]

Follow your gut. Find that person that just needs to be recognized and just sit with her. She's been waiting for you and maybe it's the right time for you to get acquainted!!!

 

RU

 

Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say,  I'm still not sure about what to do, but having someone else understand 'where I'm coming from' feels very good.

[Petunia]

One piece of advise Petu: try to keep it simple...focus on coping.

 

lol if I wasn't feeling so depressed right now, this would make me laugh rather than just smile.  I know you are completely right, life at its core is simple.  Unfortunately, I'm not, never was, that's been a big part of my problem..... much too complicated, way too much in my own head, always thinking.  Drugs blocked much of it out, I guess its back now, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing... a return of something from before, means healing, but what if its a return of something dysfunctional.  You see Alex, I can't keep it simple even when I try

[EternalOptimist]

Hi Petu:

I know staying up in the head can feel safer and trying to find balance between that and "feeling" is a feat but one worth pursuing in my experience. . My moto is "keep it simple" but I know that is not always easy for some. I've several friends who struggle w/ that so can validate you. Best

[bubble]

 

One piece of advise Petu: try to keep it simple...focus on coping.

 

lol if I wasn't feeling so depressed right now, this would make me laugh rather than just smile.  I know you are completely right, life at its core is simple.  Unfortunately, I'm not, never was, that's been a big part of my problem..... much too complicated, way too much in my own head, always thinking.  Drugs blocked much of it out, I guess its back now, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing... a return of something from before, means healing, but what if its a return of something dysfunctional.  You see Alex, I can't keep it simple even when I try

 

 

This rings so many bells!!! (and what you wrote in your previous update). I wish I had more time to write because it made me very inspired.

 

Briefly, on the way home from the supermarket, I had this realisation: (as you might have noticed I started sounding quite religous lately:) : who am I to doubt the God' s wisdom (to paraphrase the Pope) in creating somebody like me - so painfully complex, with a kind of x-ray vision, seeing so many different shades where others see only one or 2 and act on this while I stay paralised. 

 

We have to celebrate ourselves the way we are (as W. Whitman realised). I'm everything and nothing and that is so hard to be (a dangerous gift as our friends in the Icarus Project say for their even more complex and painful experiences of hearing voices, etc.)

[lobster]

Stopping by to say good morning :-) hoping you are feeling a little better and to keep your chin up.

[trouper]

hi petu,

i was reading a previous post of yours about dealing with depression when your daughter is gone and it reminded me of this article:

http://www.mindbodygreen.com/0-13042/6-tips-to-get-motivated-when-youre-feeling-depressed.html

 

one thing they said which i realize i sometimes do is set things up ahead of time so its easier just to get up and do them. what i try to do in the afternoon/evenings when i'm feeling better is look at my calendar for the next few days or the week and schedule a yoga class or acupuncture or such. sometimes i will even schedule little things like "8:00am - go for a walk. 9:00am - read". i try to schedule things earlier in the day to get me up and out of the house. even getting dressed and going to starbucks to get oatmeal seems to help. although i'm still trying to figure out why it seems easier to get in my car and drive to get oatmeal rather than make something at home

 

hope this helps.

[Petunia]

Thanks Lobster and also Trouper for posting the link, it has some good ideas and I completely agree and when my daughter does leave, and I have my car back, I don't see myself as having any alternative but to put some of those techniques into practice.

 

If my problem was only depression, it would be relatively easy.  But my mornings can be more of a combination of panic/terror, the physical kind that I can't behave or think myself out of.  Over the weekend, I got the membership details of another gym, so I just need to decide which one to join.  I just wish there was something I could do to stop these cortisol mornings, nothing stops the symptoms of them apart from time and my body is so hyper-sensitive, until it stops for the day, that almost everything I try and do, is overwhelming.  Its really hard to explain what this is like to someone who hasn't experienced it, I never would have believed it myself.

 

I think to start with, I'm going to have to schedule my first goals for late morning, that way, hopefully, the cortisol will be lowered somewhat, but I wont be completely exhausted yet.  At the moment I'm managing to walk every day, usually sometime between 11am and 4pm, but I never plan to walk, it just happens.

 

4. Envision how you'll feel after the task.

Getting in the shower, going for a walk, preparing a meal, or hanging out with a friend seems like a very ominous task if you focus on the effort involved. People who are depressed generally have low self-efficacy, which means they have low confidence in their ability to perform tasks. As such, they tend to feel overwhelmed and avoid such tasks. Lower expectations for yourself within the task, and envision how you (might) feel after the task rather than during.

 

This point resonates with me, as soon as I start thinking about doing something, I immediately feel much worse, I manage much better when things happen spontaneously.  For example, for several days, I've wanted to go outside and sweep up these things which keep falling from a tree every time it gets a bit windy.  Every time I thought about doing it, or even put a little pressure on myself, saying to myself that I 'need' to do it, I would feel overwhelmed and completely incapable.  But today, this afternoon, I suddenly found myself out there doing it, no plan, no thoughts, just a sudden impulse to do it, so I did and it was easy.  This really is the only way I've been able to get anything accomplished over the last couple of years, by not forcing myself to do anything at any particular time, but allowing myself to be spontaneous.

 

Here's another weird example.  One morning recently I had to drive my daughter to work, it was early and I felt awful, but I needed to do it.  I planned to take her and come straight home, but as I started driving back home, I found myself driving into the parking lot behind the gym, it had been in my mind for weeks to check it out, and here I was doing it.  After that, I thought I was going home, but then I found myself parking at the mall, I went and bought some food to heat up later for dinner.  If I had planned to do these things, I don't think I would have been able to do them.  This is very confusing to me, I used to be able to live my life by a schedule, but now my brain seems to function more like that of an animal, wanting to live only in the present moment and doing things because they seem like a good idea right now.  So far, everything I've needed to do, has got done, eventually.

 

I had a very scary morning, I can't remember anything about it now, I just know that my brain was in a bad way and I was hanging onto my sense of reality by a thread.  I'm fine now, of course, its 6:30 at night, almost feel content, peaceful, nothing planned, quite happy sitting here looking at this flashing cursor, wondering what I'm going to type next.....

 

 

[Petunia]

This rings so many bells!!! (and what you wrote in your previous update). I wish I had more time to write because it made me very inspired.

 

Briefly, on the way home from the supermarket, I had this realisation: (as you might have noticed I started sounding quite religous lately:) : who am I to doubt the God' s wisdom (to paraphrase the Pope) in creating somebody like me - so painfully complex, with a kind of x-ray vision, seeing so many different shades where others see only one or 2 and act on this while I stay paralised. 

 

We have to celebrate ourselves the way we are (as W. Whitman realised). I'm everything and nothing and that is so hard to be (a dangerous gift as our friends in the Icarus Project say for their even more complex and painful experiences of hearing voices, etc.)

 

 

Bubble, if you feel so inspired again and have the time, please write more about this, I would love to know your thoughts.  My whole life I've felt torn between trying to honor my natural self and trying to fit into an external world which often feels like an alien planet on which I don't belong.  I"m not sure if it has anything to do with being able to see myself as both everything and nothing at the same time, but neither of those extremes fits in with the way most people operate.  I'm leaning more towards 'nothing' these days, I'm hoping that once I get there, completely and can sit there quietly, then eventually, a more balanced kind of 'everything' will emerge from the nothing... if that makes any sense.... 

[bubble]

 

I had a very scary morning, I can't remember anything about it now, I just know that my brain was in a bad way and I was hanging onto my sense of reality by a thread.  I'm fine now, of course, its 6:30 at night, almost feel content, peaceful, nothing planned, quite happy sitting here looking at this flashing cursor, wondering what I'm going to type next.....

 

What an author you are! such a brilliant ending

 

I have the same problems with actvities. What I do is combine both approaches: I plan but am very flexible about giving up the plans and go with the flow . I used to be a person of schedules but I also found it that for many years I can function only in this very unstructured way (which my environment finds very frustrating. So when I feel unwell I don't take part in social undertakings and if I feel better I try to stick strictly with the programme to make up for it...)

 

oh, the art of living...

[bubble]

 

This rings so many bells!!! (and what you wrote in your previous update). I wish I had more time to write because it made me very inspired.

 

Briefly, on the way home from the supermarket, I had this realisation: (as you might have noticed I started sounding quite religous lately:) : who am I to doubt the God' s wisdom (to paraphrase the Pope) in creating somebody like me - so painfully complex, with a kind of x-ray vision, seeing so many different shades where others see only one or 2 and act on this while I stay paralised. 

 

We have to celebrate ourselves the way we are (as W. Whitman realised). I'm everything and nothing and that is so hard to be (a dangerous gift as our friends in the Icarus Project say for their even more complex and painful experiences of hearing voices, etc.)

 

 

Bubble, if you feel so inspired again and have the time, please write more about this, I would love to know your thoughts.  My whole life I've felt torn between trying to honor my natural self and trying to fit into an external world which often feels like an alien planet on which I don't belong.  I"m not sure if it has anything to do with being able to see myself as both everything and nothing at the same time, but neither of those extremes fits in with the way most people operate.  I'm leaning more towards 'nothing' these days, I'm hoping that once I get there, completely and can sit there quietly, then eventually, a more balanced kind of 'everything' will emerge from the nothing... if that makes any sense.... 

 

 

it makes perfect sense... There is one post of yours I have to find where you wrote about the way you felt at school and elsewhere in your life becasue you were different, had a different way of learning, looking at the world and been forced to comply with the majority.

 

Something struck me when you wrote about the way you functioned at school I think.

 

I will just take note of some thoughts: doing things 'my way' takes a lot of courage and if you suffer from lack of self-confidence, the very fact that you are different will come out as being a failure. In the attempt to become more like the general norm, you give up on who you are and that makes you very sad (not to say depressed). Conforming and fitting a pattern is very dangerous because in that process we lose touch with who we are, our core and in that way become cut off from our life's source and energy it carries, which is a definition of depression (no life's energy).

 

Denying oneself and going against onself for whatever reason is very dangerous. Now I remembered a seminar paper I wrote at university about The Awakening by Kate Chopin where I wrote about what psychoanalistic theory calls repression. The novel is about repression of sexuality but any kind of denial of who we are lies at the root of depression.

 

Highly intelligent people are usually misfits, school drop outs but those misfits that we now know as geniuses are the ones that had the courage to be who they were regardless of the cost they had to pay: often rejection, poverty..they were before their time, nobody understood them or appreciated them. But if you live in accordance with yourself, especially after having experienced the suffering which resulted from dissociation, this brings such joy. That's why many people say they feel a lot happier as they grow older and have the liberty to be more of who they are and don't have to pay attention to what others think, do or say.

 

When you conform for a long time, when those who take part in your upbringing don't accept you the way you are but would like you to be as a neighbour's kid, you lose touch with who you really are. Later on, it takes a lot of effort to hear your inner impulses, to undig them, a lot of careful conscious listening. 

 

It might also be accompanied by very unpleasant emotions, like walking on the moon, feeling strange, insecure. And our environment will not like it for sure. Instead of a compliant member who listens and obeys, nods to her mother, and wants to please her, one gets a rebelious creature who speaks her mind.

 

I remember when my aunt told me: I never believed you you were ill but now I see that you are really not well. (it was said in the moment when I finally started displaying healthy impulses. One of them was to do what I wanted to do and not what she commanded me to do against my wishes, mocking them and considering them of no importance). It was actually funny that probably for the first time in my life when I displayed healthy psychological functioning, I was pronounced "mentally ill". (And I was so upset as if I had killed someone. All I said was: I will go to visit the village where my grandmother lived although you think it is stupid and it would be better for me to stay with you. Since she was mocking my intention further, I snapped and left the house as the table was served for lunch in an act of inexplicable aggression). 

 

I don't know if I missed the topic

[trouper]

petu,

i feel the same way as you with spontaneous vs. planning! i have a friend who is asking if i want to get together for lunch or dinner this week. its so hard for me to make the decision and plan ahead. i get a weird wave of dread/anxiety when i think about it. at least she knows what I'm going through and i know i can flake out if i have to. i guess thats why its good i keep things in the calendar and plan in the evenings when it sounds a bit better. when the event comes i can either go if I'm feeling okay, or pass if i don't. having these yoga classes in my calendar also gives me something to look forward to during the day - a bit of an obligation like with you taking your daughter to work. that seems like its something you manage to do regardless of how you feel.

my anxiety/panic mornings have decreased somewhat for now but i definitely have my share of those mornings. i still feel i have the higher anxiety/cortisol in the mornings but lately i mostly wake up feeling physically crappy (tinnitus, anxious, foggy head, ickiness) and mentally with dread, depression and anxious thoughts. it seems the days i don't feel too horrible from withdrawals my underlying anxiety disorder likes to surface and I'm dealing with trying to calm that down.

maybe checking out the classes and times each of the gyms offer may be a helpful way to decide which may be better for you unless you aren't a classes people and just want to go to work out on your own. 

 

for the high cortisol mornings i've been using things i've learned from here which seem to help a bit. when its 4am or so and i don't want to get up yet, i take some vitamin c, some of a tincture my naturopath made (i also have one my acupuncturist gave me called relax-tone), and i have some lavender spray. if its after 6am or so, i make a hot cup of tulsi tea (holy basil) and i try to eat something. a therapist once told me to have some orange juice to make the blood sugar go back up. i haven't noticed walking to help lower cortisol much but its a good distraction. i need to wait for the sun to come up to do that one though.

[Rhiannon]

Thanks for your thoughts about the planning versus just doing. I have a lot of trouble with that when I look around or think about all the things that need doing--I just shut down and hide (usually on the computer). It just feels too big, scary, overwhelming. There is always so much that needs to be done.

 

I'm going to play with the idea of just letting it be and trusting that in the flow of things it will get done, rather than planning and pushing. It feels like if I push, the anxiety/fear/something???/whatever-it-is just pushes back. So maybe if I practice letting it go, that will help. Thanks for this insight!

 

I have had the same frustration with not understanding why I can't just make a plan and do things. Although I've always been happier with a more flexible schedule, I was always able to make a plan and follow through without discomfort or disability, before the meds.

 

It's comforting to hear that somebody else has the same problem. Once again, maybe I'm not broken or inherently flawed, maybe this is another aspect of the dysfunction caused by the drugs and withdrawal, which means there's hope that it will pass eventually.

 

Thanks for your eloquent sharing.

[Rhiannon]

Oh and I really relate to your struggles with cortisol. Mine seems to be a bit mellower this morning, but it comes and goes. I'm holding my taper now so hopefully over the weeks to come it will settle down.

 

It's so strange to feel relaxed and good in the evening, knowing I'll be a bundle of nerves again come morning. Sometimes I just don't want to go to bed, I wish I could just put the day on "pause" forever.

[bubble]

greetings to our Petu Down Under.

 

thinking about you and don't know why I thought it was a lot more than a day since we've heard from you  

[Nikki]

Petu I just finished reading a book by Dr. Richard Carlson.  I was reading it while depressed and anxious and was glad I did.

 

He talks about low moods vs. high moods ( or a better mood).  When we are in a low mood, out thoughts which elicit feelings are generally negative, self doubting, self critical and hopeless.  This can morph together into tremendous mental static.  Round and round it  goes physically, emotionally and mentally exhausting ourselves.

 

This is exactly what happens to me.....you must have seen this a million times in my posts.

 

When our mood shifts into a higher gear the mental static basically ends and so does the obsessive thinking... (I am an obsessive thinker).

 

Reading this book helped me out while I was depressed.  I tried to tell myself.....okay you are in a low mood and here comes the mental static.  It helped.  But when my static is drug induced it is very difficult to stop.  Nearly impossible.

 

The beauty of this site is that we "all get it" and help each other walk thru it.

 

Getting a puppy is giving unconditional love to an animal.  There is nothing wrong with you for wanting a dog.  They are God's gift to people.  You have alot of love to give that is an admirable quality.  It's healthy......

 

Your daughter going to Japan and missing her and those feelings of panic is something I experience when my daughter talks about getting her own place.  IF I am in a bad spell of anxiety I get very panicky.  When I am at ease, I look forward to living alone (for once in my life )  In a low mood it will trigger a panic reaction.  Petu we raised out daughters and are attached to them. Seeing them leave is very bittersweet.

 

The bottom line is that you are very, very normal and that  is all there is too it

[Jemima]

 

One piece of advise Petu: try to keep it simple...focus on coping.

 

lol if I wasn't feeling so depressed right now, this would make me laugh rather than just smile.  I know you are completely right, life at its core is simple.  Unfortunately, I'm not, never was, that's been a big part of my problem..... much too complicated, way too much in my own head, always thinking.  Drugs blocked much of it out, I guess its back now, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing... a return of something from before, means healing, but what if its a return of something dysfunctional.  You see Alex, I can't keep it simple even when I try

 

 

Alex said, "Try to keep it simple", not that LIFE is simple. Far from it! We live in a highly imperfect world full of flawed people and the result is that things often don't work very well and we end up coping with problems--self or other-inflicted--a lot of the time.  I don't think many people experience happiness often, they just keep up a good front out of pride or who-knows-what. You may think you're worse off or a worse person than many others, but believe me, when you get a peek behind the facade, the private side of their lives is nowhere nearly as good as what you imagine. Take it from someone who worked as a psychotherapist for fourteen years (that would be me).

[Petunia]

 

thinking about you and don't know why I thought it was a lot more than a day since we've heard from you

 

I'm still here Bubble, not writing much but doing the best I can, when I can.  Thank you for elaborating on your previous post. I wish I could comment more, but my brain isn't cooperating.  Also, the part about where your 'illness' was finally recognized, but only as an attempt to manipulate when you were actually acting in a healthy way.  This sent a kind of shiver down my spine, it felt familiar.  There are a lot of subtle, unconscious methods that dysfunctional families use in order to keep all members of the family participating in the dysfunctional pattern.

[Petunia]

 it seems the days i don't feel too horrible from withdrawals my underlying anxiety disorder likes to surface and I'm dealing with trying to calm that down.

 

This is interesting and I'm wondering how you tell the difference between withdrawal and your 'anxiety disorder'.   I have a whole bunch of dxs and I'm not sure I believe any of them.  To me, anxiety seems like a symptom of something else, not an illness all by itself.  In my case, looking back, I began having problems at a very early age.  I would become extremely anxious in certain situations, usually involving lots of loud noise, bright lights, loud, very active people, crowds, so I think that my problem stems being born more sensitive to stimulation than the average person and finding 'normal' life, in our society very stressful at times because I get overwhelmed easily.  That was just the start though, growing up, not having this recognized or supported and in fact having my personal experience of life completely invalidated over and over again, and told that I was imagining everything, this is probably what has caused the most damage.

[Petunia]

 

It's so strange to feel relaxed and good in the evening, knowing I'll be a bundle of nerves again come morning. Sometimes I just don't want to go to bed, I wish I could just put the day on "pause" forever.

 

I also find this constant switching very hard to deal with.  On some level I can't seem to accept that I can't control my mood and emotions and make myself feel in the morning, the same way I do at night.  I guess I've been brainwashed by all the CBT I've done over the years, telling me that my emotions are caused by my thoughts and behaviors. I think that sometimes they are, but this is completely out of my control.  The only thing I can control about it is how I deal with it, there's nothing I can do to make it go away, not getting dressed, having a shower, going for a walk, meditating, talking to someone.......

 

It lasted a long time yesterday, I didn't start feeling better until about 4:30.  I had to go out and do a few chores, so I went out and did what I needed to do anyway, but it was very stressful to be out in the world in that state.  Everything was looking distorted again, my brain wasn't working properly, my short term memory was gone, I was really having to focus hard to remember how to do everything, how to behave, how to talk, what to say, where places are.  Yesterday, it was a relief to get home again and I have a feeling I've just added another little bit of trauma to my back log which is going to make it more difficult the next time I have to go out.

 

I felt my body start to settle down right in the middle of my Mum's routine Wednesday afternoon visit.  Because of how bad I was feeling, I was dreading her visit, not knowing what she was going to talk about, knowing I couldn't deal with any more stress.  I just wanted to be alone so I could control what I was exposed to and protect my nervous system from more 'damage', well, that's what it felt like.  But then suddenly, the cortisol switch happened and I was ok.... this is so bizarre, once the switch happened to me while I was in line at a grocery checkout. I had been planning on grabbing my few items and rushing home, but instead I completely changed my plans and stayed out and did a whole lot of other things like I was a completely different person from the one I had been minutes before.

 

I just realized what this is like.  I've played video games where you are a character on a mission and as part of the game play, the environment will suddenly change from being pleasant and safe to being dark and threatening, usually something in the game triggers the change, but you don't know what it is or when its going to happen.... that's what this is like.  I don't want to be playing this game any more.  But I think the only way out of this game is to keep playing it to the end.

[Petunia]

Getting a puppy is giving unconditional love to an animal.  There is nothing wrong with you for wanting a dog.  They are God's gift to people.  You have alot of love to give that is an admirable quality.  It's healthy......

 

........Your daughter going to Japan and missing her and those feelings of panic is something I experience when my daughter talks about getting her own place.  IF I am in a bad spell of anxiety I get very panicky.  When I am at ease, I look forward to living alone (for once in my life )  In a low mood it will trigger a panic reaction.  Petu we raised out daughters and are attached to them. Seeing them leave is very bittersweet.

 

 

 

About the puppy,  that's exactly what I'm most worried about, I'm burned out, my nervous system is fried.  I don't have any more unconditional love left to give, the few dregs that I have left, or those which seem to resurrect themselves at times, I think I need for myself, but I seem programmed to focus on others rather than myself and this isn't good for my long term health.  If I'm going to survive, I have to learn to put myself first.  Like when a plane decompresses and the oxygen masks fall, we all have to put our own on first before we attend to anyone else.

 

I'm exactly the same Nikki, when I'm stressed and anxious...... all morning, the thought of my daughter going causes panic.  But when I've calmed down... in the evening, it seems like it will be a relief to live alone and only have to take care of myself.  But then the morning comes around, along with the panic and loss of confidence and I'm terrified I'm not going to be able to cope living alone.... and the truth is, in the mornings, I really don't function properly, emotionally, I'm not capable of handling much at all, so until I start recovering more..... faster..... I don't know, I think I'm just scared I'm going to get worse and not be able to take care of myself.

 

There seems to be something else going on here though, when I can step back and look from a distance. I've always been very involved in my daughter's life, not in a controlling way, but connected, so that I've known what's going on and I've always been available physically and emotionally to help if I was needed, but at the same time, I've encouraged her to be independent and gently pushed her out into the world.  Its been like a balancing act which I tried to do very consciously.  But this last act of letting go completely has been taken out of my hands.  I'm not capable of giving her the emotional and physical support she once got from me, she is having to find it in other places, from other people.  Of course, this is good for her, I think it is, anyway.  But its excruciating for me to watch, helplessly and not be able to help in the way I once did.  The last major thing I managed to do for her was help her learn how to drive and support her in getting her license..... all while I was going through the worst of withdrawal, I honestly don't know how I managed it, the stress was unbearable at times.....

 

perhaps 4 months by myself is just the rest my NS needs in order to start healing properly.

[Petunia]

 

Alex said, "Try to keep it simple", not that LIFE is simple. Far from it! We live in a highly imperfect world full of flawed people and the result is that things often don't work very well and we end up coping with problems--self or other-inflicted--a lot of the time.  I don't think many people experience happiness often, they just keep up a good front out of pride or who-knows-what. You may think you're worse off or a worse person than many others, but believe me, when you get a peek behind the facade, the private side of their lives is nowhere nearly as good as what you imagine. Take it from someone who worked as a psychotherapist for fourteen years (that would be me).

 

 

Thanks for writing this Jemima, it helps. As a psychotherapist, why do you think people spend so much of their time and energy, pretending to be happier and more accomplished than they really are? Life would be so much easier, for everyone, if we could all be more honest about ourselves and our lives.  For some reason, I've never felt comfortable pretending to be something I'm not, its difficult for me to imagine how other people find it so easy, or where the energy comes from.

[mattinsmom]

I am just now making my rounds. I am sorry to see that you are still struggling so much. I understand the feelings of wanting/needing to do activities with another person in order to know if you're having fun. I understand the drive for a pet, for something to think about other than yourself. Remember that it is easier to care for others for many reasons, one being because it allows us to push our feelings/needs aside. I think that we have all become so used to being put aside and to having our needs unmet that it feels unnatural when the moments come for our own care. Sometimes when I am alone I feel like I am sitting with a complete stranger.  

 

As for your spontaneous trips, honor those. Most of life is just a matter of showing up.  I wish you peace.