MaryKA Withdrawal without tapering scary and unsuccessful

[MaryKA]

PS Of course, burette in the above should be pipette

[MaryKA]

I wouldn't trust the dropper, either. Good for you, for negotiating all of this.

 

It was quite strange to discuss the dropper thing, not with the GP who I think had no choice but with the pharmacist. Who suggested that I just had whole drop reductions (i.e. 2 mg/day reduction) or half drop reductions by dropping the last drop into water and then drinking half . I just nodded..., I think we each have to have a personal battle with those who would say they know better. I may yet tell the pharmacist how much less prone to error is using a dilution to a more countable measure.

[MaryKA]

It may be you're not quite ready to taper. You may wish to hold for a bit, again.

 

Caramba! Thanks for the reminder Alto!! I'm deffo gonna wait a month!!!

[MaryKA]

PS More on how I'm diluting the liquid prep:

I've popped off the plastic dropper thing off the top of the bottle so I can get a syringe without needle into the bottle.

I'm using a 1 ml syringe given by the GP to measure the liquid prep.

I'm using a balance to measure the water into which I'm putting the liquid prep.

For example, I always make a 1 mg/ml dilution, so for my liquid prep of 40 mg/ml, I take 1 ml liquid prep and put it into 39 ml water.

Then I use a 10 ml syringe given by the GP to measure my dose: for example my current dose is 9 mg, so 9 ml of my dilution.

[mammaP]

Well done getting what you wanted Katie, and for working it out, my brain was frazzled trying to get the numbers right, lol.

Glad you had a good holiday with the boys and relaxed a bit, you deserve it. 

[lexicon]

Katie, it is good to see that you are doing great ..

Good Katie ..

I think of you, and have been meaning to write, but get involved with my issues,

and another day goes by.

So, just to tell you that I am delighted with your progress ..

Sending you love, Lexi

[Rhiannon]

Way to go Katie, good to hear you're plugging along and things are going well!

 

I agree with Alto, if you are still having autonomic symptoms it may not be time to taper yet.  I definitely understand the feeling of wanting to get off these drugs right now immediately, but it's important to balance that with going slowly enough to have some quality of life, and also making sure you give your nervous system and your body the time it needs to heal as you go.

[MaryKA]

I agree with Alto, if you are still having autonomic symptoms it may not be time to taper yet.

 

It may be you're not quite ready to taper. You may wish to hold for a bit, again.

 

Crumbs, what to say? Today I really feel like I have flu -- aches all over, little temperature control, tiredness, muscular twinges. Maybe I'm naive to say that I am quite surprised. But also there is my ovulation happening. I'm going to keep on with the 5% taper until at least my hormones have settled down. Ibuprofen helps with the flu-like symptoms.

 

I'll post again tomorrow ... Thank you to everyone keeping in touch with me.

[MaryKA]

I've been too ill all week to post. What was 'flu-like symptoms' on Monday 19 turned out on Wednesday to be a bacterial infection at danger of going systemic. The antibiotics are working.

 

So about the effects of my last taper? I can't report any symptoms since Sunday, the effects of infection have taken over everything. So I guess I've been feeling OK.

[Rhiannon]

Oh wow, sorry you are sick, but glad you're getting treatment now! And glad you're not dealing with intense withdrawal symptoms on top of it.

[mammaP]

Glad the anti biotics are working and you are getting better Katie  .

[MaryKA]

TQ mammaP and Rhi, glad to have your good messages.

 

I wonder why I've had this infection: it was a low-grade chronic thing that just flared up unexpectedly. Does tapering compromise one's immune system?

 

As for the tapering itself: 1 week in and going fine

[MaryKA]

After the initial day-3 symptoms, none other still after over 2 weeks on a 5% taper.

[MaryKA]

Here I am, 3 weeks after my last post.    I suppose at first it's because work went nuts , but the last 10 days of so it's because home life has been really difficult and I've not been in the mood to post.

 

Basically, while I was ill a month ago and running temperatures up to 40 degrees C, husband was still not there for me, going on at me, arguing with me, and it has been thus for a long long time, him not there for me, and so for the second (and final) time this year, I decided I could not stay married to him.

 

So since then, I have not talked to him and kept interaction to a minimum. We live in a long thin house, so we each have one end, I have my own kitchen in the living room, and our paths cross for him to go to the bathroom and for me to wash up in the kitchen. Which means our paths don't cross much. And that was the status quo. He didn't want to do anything, like sort out joint bank accounts so we have financial independence and privacy, because he needed to sort out his emotions first, so I've been waiting to start sorting out teasing apart our lives . Of course, he's been feeling rather vulnerable as I am the wage earner, but I had made it clear, even when we split up at the end of May, that I'd carry on paying the mortgage and bills while we got our lives fully separated....

 

And then, nearly 2 weeks ago, he got a job. And the ensuing changes within him were shockingly profound. It started off with withdrawing IT support for my home business, and went through (in this order, one a day) challenging me with (what he thinks were) my friends' unfriendly comments about me, telling me bluntly he'd got a job and that he'd decided what he was going to do and that was live here and that I was moving, then two days with an event each that I can't remember right now, then telling me that I should have started to look for a place already (although I had already written an email explaining that my work was full on for another two weeks and could not possibly do anything until October) and finally telling me he'd switched off my web and mail server "in retribution". To cut out much details, t'was a full seven days of unremitting stress.

 

The last day was last Sunday. It took me until yesterday to not feel shocked . I was more or less shivering continuously, twitching at times, sharp intakes of breath, which gradually eased, but even on Wednesday I found myself crying to my swimming teacher of 5 weeks ... it hadn't helped that I had not done either of my swimming practices since my last lesson, one cos my car was in the garage and one cos I was deeply in shock on Monday ... but I couldn't hide my upset, with all my husband's sudden confidence and nastiness along with having to move out.

 

Part of my feeling shocked is due to the way I reacted to husband's hostility and aggression. He has been touching two nerves: one which was sensitized from my first divorce, where husband was hostile and aggressive to me directly and through my young children, which kept me on my toes; and the second from this marriage, where I am weary of being asked my opinion, being challenged on my opinion, being talked to without being asked about my opinion, being shouted at, occasionally having drinks thrown at me, endless into the night unless I manage to escape to another bed, lots of chaos because of husband's 'panic' and all on top of being let down again and again.

 

So thank goodness I've realised that those two nerves have been sparking off each other big time. I think I've insulated them with mindfulness, which was tested even today and came up trumps

[MaryKA]

To finish off the story as to when I have to move: I don't have to yet!! Husband came home early from his fifth day at work: he's lost his job, I don't know why. Strangely, he started immediately sorting out my stuff into my end, at which time I broached what I'd found out earlier this week, that it would be to be a disadvantage to me to move until we have signed our "separation agreement", which would be clearly some months while he sorted out a mortgage for himself, whereupon he admitted he'd lost his job...

 

So back to me paying the mortgage and the bills to give him time to get himself together. The thing is, he could take a very long time, so however long I give him, it's not gonna be enough.

 

And me and my physical reaction and my tapering? All these last week's happenings have been during my PMT time (tho I didn't know it ), and I've never had PMT as bad as I have had since reducing my SSRI. So I wanna get the timing of my next 5% taper spot on. And so that's about 3 weeks away (getting the calendar out ... ), but then my teenage boys come in 5 weeks so it may be till November before I next taper.

 

About the taper itself, I think I would be ready now if it hadn't been for all this upset. I did seem to have an immune system failure (the aforementioned bacterial infection leading to high temperatures and a need for antibiotics) a week after my first 5% taper, but that was the worst of it. But certainly I'm gonna have to take it very mindfully while I live in this stressful household for the foreseeable future

 

Thanks for listening. I'm gonna try to catch up on some threads now. Hope you are all getting on.

[mammaP]

Oh Katie I am so sorry you are going through all this, you certainly don't need it while going through withdrawing.

I hope you can find a way to get some peace of mind. It's so sad that relationships break down and come to this. 

[MaryKA]

Thank you mammaP,. It is sad, I do look at photographs cos I know if I don't face them now, they'll be back to haunt me.

 

But I know I'm right to end the marriage. This weekend I've been sorting and moving my emails and files to where he cannot get at them, then changing passwords, and one thing was to look at the phone bill online, which I couldn't so I had to phone and get the log in sorted out. And when I had, he came storming into my room asking why I had done changed it (it's in my name only). How he knew I don't know, had he been eavesdropping? But then he grabbed hold of me and licked my face and glasses. I escaped into the street. What makes a man stick his tongue out and do that?

 

Kept strong with this. But I'm wondering if I should pop into the police station tomorrow and talk it over :/

[Rhiannon]

Mary, definitely this would not be a good time to make further cuts! I will PM you about my thoughts about your situation with your husband.

[MaryKA]

Hi Rhi, no way am I making cuts until I feel safe. Frustrating. And all the more so that I would not have even been on my SSRI without his stressing ... I have seen on this forum some pondering why someone is on the same meds as the other person in their life, which is my case is firmly husband's little sister who's been on SSRI for over 20 years. If I'd known then what I know now ... but too late :/

[MaryKA]

Since his experience with the police, husband has been very quiet, It was alarming on Wednesday when he came into my office twice to get some things), :/ but he must have taken the things he needed and has not needed to come back again. I'm still jumpy at any sudden noises, but I guess that's par for the course, and also I live in a very quiet village.

 

This last week has been Security Week. I've been practising working with my new email and web hosting package and getting used to backing up my files differently. Also this week I have secured my finances, like I closed the joint account where all our bills and mortgage are paid from and transferred those all to my sole account, so he is not dependent on me for anything other than the costs of maintaining the house and I have my privacy in what I buy. This have given me some real comfort and security. 8)

 

Also some old friends have been coming online and are actively supporting me now that they've realised that it's tough and I do need them to tell me that they are there with me. This is very important to me as one of the things that has been difficult for me to cope with is that particular 'other friends' of mine would support my husband also. This is not good considering how my husband refers so much to others for his opinions and, having rejected mine, would throw at me whatever his reports of my friends' opinions he interprets and chooses. After not much pondering, I've decided that I will/should/can not view the support of my husband by these 'other friends' as OK.... So now I have to challenge the 'other friends' and be ready to walk away if needs be.   Actually I feel OK with that: I've been very upset by my husband being supported by the 'other friends' and, although I'd much rather keep the new friends as well as the old, my old friends are beating these particular 'other friends' hands down. 8)

 

So all good, she said, maintaining a cheesy grin ... (no appropriate smiley)

[MaryKA]

Husband was so alarming I rang 999 for the first time in my life. Husband now in for questioning.

[mammaP]

Oh no..... hope you are ok Katie. x

[MaryKA]

Thanks mammaP, I am OK, Husband came back after midnight, not enough evidence to charge him. He's stayed quiet while he's been in but has been out for most of today.

 

But I am exhausted and feeling the shock again.

 

Next thing is for me to list our assets as far as I know on the date of separation and send it to my solicitor. I've been planning this for a week but one thing and another has had my attention instead. And I'm not doing it tonight, having worked until 8 o'clock... I wonder if he is going to be so proactive as to do it before me. After all, he doesn't work all day...

[MaryKA]

September was an awful month, full on stress with work from the end of August, and then from the 6th lots of stress from in my personal life. So I was hoping October would be better -- couldn't be worse, could it?

 

How wrong I was. A pair of my friends (married) sent an email to both me and my husband which I think is just appalling and particularly insulting to me. In fact, the subject was Re: xxx, but the content of the previous email was trimmed, so I guess (rather educatedly) that my husband had written to them. And now I'm tarred with the same brush. I am very upset, I managed to get out this afternoon to meet someone for the first time and held it together and I thought I would be OK, but now I'm back home and I've read the email again (and again) rather than skimming it for tone as before, I am more appalled and shocked and hurt and I feel helpless to explain to them why, because I've been cast in a certain light. It's like The Crucible all over again, and actually I do not want to explain to them (there's their crux) I am not interested in people who give me a hard time right now. They gave me facts about myself that come from husband and they treated it as true without asking me. They have forgotten that I've told them I have been in shock, that I'm worn out, cos there's no sympathy (could/should/would there be in such an email that also goes to my estranged husband?). They have certainly forgotten that I'd had a hard time with cold-turkey Citalopram (and one of them has been on it and had a hard time coming off it slowly with the 'GP method'). They ignored my request not to let my husband know anything about me or what's going on for me but broken my privacy with this email to both of us. It has not counted that I've been proactive in trying to sort things out in a calm way; it hasn't counted that he has come out of his part of the house and come at me whenever he can't control himself. My getting upset then is seen as 'not on' by them. They gave blanket statements telling me I'm going to 'end up lonely and unsupported'. Hah, they write like they are the only friends I have ... I am still upset, for lots of reasons, and furious too because they have listened to him and are treating what he says like it's true; also that these were my friends originally and they have been helping my husband to the point of their literal exhaustion, and so I get the short thrift. And if they are exhausted, it is not much to do with me, how can it be? I don't harass with constant ringing (as husband has) or linger if they are busy (I get off the phone straightaway). My husband can be very tiring because of the length of time he can demand from someone. So he's used them up and whatever I might have to say is not considered at all. I know that a friend cannot be good for everything; every friend is good for something but not for every situation. But they seemed to have thought that I expected the lot: no, I just wanted to be listened to.

 

I have unfriended this couple from FaceBook. It is a real shame, I've known her for nearly 18 years, we met in the doctor's while I was waiting to take my eldest for her 6-week checkup and she was there to register. She asked me how the birth at the hospital went and I couldn't tell her as I'd had a home birth. She'd already had a child in a private 'natural birth' clinic with her previous (wealthy) husband, so she was already thinking of a home birth. And so it went from there. But I have for a long time wondered whether our relationship was really healthy (I could say more but I'm trying to keep the story short). The man of this couple, we've gradually got to know each other, with talk and business and compassion, and when my brother really let me down and I gave up on him, he stepped in and said he'd be my brother. So this is not an easy thing for me to do. But, I won't take bad behaviour from anyone except my kids. Silence or nothing OK; inappropriate action not OK.

 

 

What also upsets me is that I saw this coming, I saw my husband continuing to be obsessed and arguing the toss and constantly talking, and as I wasn't gonna talk to him, that would be with my friends, for him to understand me rather than understand it was over. I saw that he'd be plausible and some may get drawn in. Also that he would take the wrong message: I've had from him that 'your friends say that you're bipolar', 'your friends say you are cold', he's hopelessly stuck. And I saw that some would try to do the best by both of us rather than stick to one of us. So that's three friends I've lost, and I'm watching two others carefully. There's a saying that goes something like 'It's at times like these you find out who are your friends'. I think this is it. I have always had two never-will-leave-me friends, and there are two others now.

[MaryKA]

Just had a call from one of the suspect friends. She said she didn't know who she was calling.... She should know from Facebook and my last 5 min call over a week ago I have been and am upset. But hey, she has no priority ... I'd say this was 'Unbelievable' if I wasn't realistic.

[MaryKA]

To anyone who's read my recent posts with concern, I decided this week to get out of the house asap. Tonight is my first night away from my estranged husband, I'm packing to put my stuff in store on Monday and going to stay with a friend until the council decides whether and how they are going to house me. I'm officially homeless

 

But of immediate relevance to this forum, I have packed my meds, but on unpacking this evening the suitcase I brought to the B&B, I've only got the liquid prep. I am taking 19 mg in the morning, 10 mg tablet plus 9 mg in liquid form. I guess (I hope correctly) that the tablets are in one of the other cases that I've got in the car outside the house (i.e. not the B&B, but 5 min walk away). Should I take 19 mg in liquid form in tomorrow morning and get on with the day, or should I root to try to find the tablets before I drive with my stuff to my friend's 45 mins away, or should I just get to my friends and have a less public hunt for the tablets at her place (which would be about 3 hours later than when I usually take my med)?

 

I ask this because I don't know if the liquid prep is absorbed much quicker than the tablets and may cause me difficulties in this stressful time... I don't think I've had any adverse effects to the liquid preparation itself.

 

Having written all this, if I've survived the last four weeks, I can probably survive even until Monday when the pharmacist/doctor could sort out a prescription to replace what I have mislaid... But any thoughts will be welcome.

[areyouthere]

Take care of yourself and don't place your worth in the hands of others. Just remember ; you are your own best friend.

 

Wishing you much luck during this difficult time. Again... please take care of YOURSELF first!!

 

RU

[MaryKA]

Sound words here, areyouthere, thank you. I have had people landing on both sides of the fence with this episode of my life and I take the good things said or done to me and let the others pass by, and I won't forget who has or has not done what for me. So spot on

[mammaP]

Stay strong and takecare, this is a really stressful time and the last thing you need is worsening withdrawal.

I hope you managed to get hold of the pills so you can keep as stable as possible with meds you are used to. 

Hopefully the council will find you somewhere safe to stay while you are sorting out what's next. You've been

so brave and it will get better once you have a place to  feel safe and without fear.  xx

[Nikki]

Like Rhi said....stay put with meds.  This is stressful and is going to be going on for awhile.  Can you work out an arrangement with your spouse about staying in the house until things are sorted?  Or with your friend. 

 

I am so sorry you are experiencing this.  Will send prayers your way.  Keep taking deep breaths to calm yourself.  Write out your thoughts and plans to stay sorted.

 

Someone is usually here to talk too.

 

Lot and lots of hugs at this time

[MaryKA]

First, I should say that I decided to take my usual dose at the usual time in wholly liquid form. It worked fine. No change in upset (like I was going to be upset anyway...)

[MaryKA]

Umm, and now I report a complete reversal in the fortune of my marriage... (long and complete story here all in one go, sorry for the long post, but I want to be honest)

 

I slept for only 3 hours last night. Something didn't feel right, but couldn't pinpoint it and cogitate on it.

 

This morning, I went drove to Friend that I'll be staying with, with enough stuff to live as normal a life as possible for a month if needs be, and burst into tears and said I was feeling wobbly and I was wondering if I was doing the right thing. To which she said, well, carry on with the move and go from there. Thank you Friend.

 

And then I had to get busy with moving my clothes, shoes, computer, screen, personal and business papers, and lastly house plants (I have a stonking spider plant with 3 foot leaves at the mo, amazing!)

 

And together with Friend, I could affirm that it was right that Husband and I each had our own space, more than a half house each, but each a place to be without being attentive to the other. And so I could affirm to myself the move.

 

And then it was time for me to get back to the packing. But Father-in-law was there helping Husband get stuff out of the loft and Husband told me to 'be careful' cos if I'd come home FIL have told me some hard truths, which could have been a threat or a helpful warning, didn't know which, but I suspected the latter (which I've found out later it was ) But I had to be a big girl and get back to my packing whoever was with Husband. So I did.

 

Father-in-law was gone by the time I arrived. But I walked in the house and just sobbed. And Husband had helpful stuff to say, like what had been done, and I said 'yes, OK' and sobbed. And sobbed. And he challenged me, 'why are you crying; this is what you wanted' and I sobbed. And then we started talking. First in a challenging way, 'I was hurt when', 'I meant this', both of us. But we each left chinks in our armour that the other explored and so we opened up over 3 hours and found a much more positive way forward.

 

And so, I continue with the move: it is good for both of us. But we will continue to know each other and work as hard as we can with a counsellor so that we avoid the bad situations we'd had for ... how long? And we take care with each other. And take things 'easy'. And if it means that we decide that we part, then we have decided and agreed together. And if we stay together, then it will be healthy.

 

And then it was 4 o'clock and no packing had been done, so he helped me, and we could say to each other 'what about this?' and 'oh that happened' and 'tomorrow I/we need to'. Which was good.

 

And that was today. The best day for a long time in ages.

[MaryKA]

One change I noticed this week: I have lost most of my 'keening'. I've had it since I first dropped my dose (to zero and then reinstated half), and I think I've lost it because I have not yet lost my husband. Most noticable was getting ready for my swimming lesson, which I started having after my second split from husband, like I would be getting ready for it and sobbing inside until I got in the pool, and then immediately keening inside afterwards. I didn't have that with this week's lesson. Although I've moved out of the marital home to a friend's, my husband and I have started talking and this is probably why I have much less distress than during the last 3 months or so. So not all for me is cos of the drugs, or lack of them ... :/

[Meimeiquest]

I wish you the best as you work together. It is impossible clear across the ocean to have any idea whether you are right together or not, but I was thinking today of the time my husband and I went to see my pdoc together in Dec. as I was so full of rage. He said it was the unmasking of all the issues I had with my husband that had been suppressed by the antipsychotic I was tapering. What a pile of c... We do have issues, especially because my first round of Prozac smoothed over everything that we should have been struggling with during our engagement, but nothing like that. I don't know what I would do without him. I just think it's generally good to avoid huge decisions when we are FREAKING CRAZY (thinking of me, not you) in WD.

[MaryKA]

Meimeiquest, it makes sense to me that we have our own space. We can both calm down and assert ourselves: not  a problem for me to do that for myself but for him to see that I do and also that he doesn't, and it means that I don't have to (try to) be non-assertive. (I can envisage a 2 by 2 table of his two switches and my two switches, and when we're both sparking off in the negative it ain't good.) I certainly started started taking my SSRI cos problems with him were compounding other problems in my life. The more I think about it, Ii was/am having a mid-life crisis, and I said that to him but it didn't fit his perceived criteria of a mid-life crisis... So I have moved out cos it had to be better (and is better). No other major decisions to be made for the next 12 months, which is when the fixed term of my tenancy (will be monthly after that).

 

And yes, I have been fighting the story of 'the drugs are doing this, you're different now', even tho for the previous year I'd been struggling with alarm bells ( the drug smoothed over some stuff in the beginning but after 5-7 months I felt some lightening motivation (just after the winter solstice, when the daylight change is not so much even at this latitude that it makes a big difference; daylight changes quickly around the equinoxes) and this is where the New Story originates.

 

Either he will get it or not. But I will have my own home and my own time and my own money to decide how I will spend it What I won't have is ..., ..., ....

[MaryKA]

Still have no more keening, so clearly that was certainly latterly emotional, tho it was a WD symptom in the first 3--4 weeks of my first and big drop in dose.

 

So I think I will be ready to take another 5% drop soon and I am deliberately planning it for some time in November, after my teenage boys have visited at the end of October.