☼ Wolfhound desperate on Mirtazapine

[mattinsmom]

Checking in.

 

Glad you are still here.

 

EMDR is awesome. Its a therapeutic technique that uses eye movement to re-process thoughts/emotions/trauma. You should be able to google it and get information/ It is a great suggestion from Nikki. Worth looking into.

 

Keep hanging on. So many of us have the suicidal thoughts and desires. Remind yourself that you have made it this far. You are doing it. You are making it even though it is so very hard. You can do this! I have faith in you even when you don't have faith in yourself. 

 

xo Amy

[Wolfhound]

Mattinsmom, i have never had suicidal desires. So for me, its something completely new. I dont have a therapeut. I dont want to destroy my childrens life. I still cannot believe whats happened to me. I was an ordinary mum and now i am struggling with mental health....and it can take years, i dont know if i can make it, ic i can live with su h feelings....

[btdt]

I never had them either before prozac it was all new to me.  

Thankfully I only took it two wks still the fallout was brutal.  The suicidal issues came and went after they started and brought an entire new set of experiences beyond the suicidal issues.  Has it let up or changed at all since you quit?  Any change at all?

[Rhiannon]

Wolfhound are you still taking some medications now? I am a little unclear on that.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. I have been there too and I know what intense misery it is.

 

Just last night I was talking to a friend about how strange it is that I am not suicidal now, when I think about death I actually think of it as something I would like to avoid for a long time--what a change for me!

 

Please hang in there. You will get past this and you will be so glad you did.

[Wolfhound]

Rhi,

thanks. I dont know whether I will have enough force to live. I really do not know, I am trying. It´s been 6 months living with suicidal and homicidal urges, 3 months without medication. If I continue to be suicidal months and months....I dont know. how long can it take??Years? I am not sure that I am strong enough to live years and years with such terrible feelings....

[btdt]

I use to think I could not live like that either but I adapted things improved some changed went bad again... I think if there is any fluctuation any at all your healing the rubik affect... is in play. 

I think in the beginning it happens to but early on the first 3 - 6 months we can't see it as the effects are slight. 

This is what is known as the windows and wave effect and once you start seeing them it will encourage you to hang in there.  There is something about knowing your on the same path as others who have healed that is inspiring.  The windows tend to give people hope when they come.  I hope your start soon.  

For myself if there were windows I did not see them... I did see changes in symptoms.  I had vomiting for 3 months and could not keep food down that lasted a long long time but after the initial 3 months it fluctuated. It is easier to see when the symptoms are physical not so easy to notice when they are in your head... also others don't see it when it is in you head so there is no validation till you find a site like this. 

Again I hope you see a window soon.

peace

[Wolfhound]

Btdt, thank you.

It´s been 3 months without pills. Only 3 months, and I know it can take years....

You had a first window after 3 months?

[btdt]

I had a change in symptoms after 3 months I could keep some foods down. I had the flu serious and violent sort for 3 months.  A good part of this time it felt like I was having a gallbladder attack but I had no gallbladder I was vomiting bile.  I was in bed 3 months getting up when I was well enough and pay huge amounts of cab fair to visit hosp emergency rooms in different cities I was sure I was dying.  I wasn't obviously.  I am here. 

I found a couple of things I could eat boiled carrots were ok and chicken broth.  I lost a ton of weight during that time.  I few drugs were tried most made me immediately worse.  After being at my own cities emerg 3 days in a row... they gave me a shot of something when my back was turned I did not get the name of it and he never did tell me that I can recall and some pills sounding like brom.... something or other. Domparidon was given in the next 3 months cycle that almost did me in by my own hand the reaction was so severe... to anyone in that place I would say don't take it. Don't even try it.

 

After 3 months like this Improved to being out of bed some of the time I was getting better.  Symptoms shifted and I had other issues the next three months but I was out of bed at least. 

 

This cycle of repair shifts all the time... the next stage may not be any more fun than this one but it will be different... and maybe less damaging to your life. I think the shifting is an important change too as you get a break even if it is to bring something new to the for front.  

 

The digestive issues were severe for me for 6 months they got better.  Other things came once you notice this you will feel better especially once you see your following the normal rubic healing pattern.  

It does improve.  I think some signs - changes should come in the next 6 months. 

[Wolfhound]

Well, lets hope I get better. I dont believe it much, but i would like to. 3 months has passed....I would be grateful to have better days next 6 months but I am not sure...

[alex]

Rhi,

thanks. I dont know whether I will have enough force to live. I really do not know, I am trying. It´s been 6 months living with suicidal and homicidal urges, 3 months without medication. If I continue to be suicidal months and months....I dont know. how long can it take??Years? I am not sure that I am strong enough to live years and years with such terrible feelings....

 Hi Wolfhound; I know the feeling.

I've had suicidal and horrible intrusive thoughts for a long time, after a too fast taper from 150 of Effexor.

After 19 months of struggle, things have gotten better, and some days, A LOT better.

You are early in w/d.Hang in there.You "will" feel better.

When you feel bad, try to think it is not you but the chemical caos.

Take care of yourself, be compassionate to yourself, be patient.

 

Sending healing vibes to you.

[Wolfhound]

Alex, thank you.

I do hope I will have some better days since I have three small children I really need to feel better.

[Rhiannon]

Wolfhound, this is not going to last forever. It is going to pass. It will take some time, but it will pass. Hang in there. This is the hardest time, but you will get through this and you will love life again.

[Wolfhound]

Wolfhound, this is not going to last forever. It is going to pass. It will take some time, but it will pass. Hang in there. This is the hardest time, but you will get through this and you will love life again.

HOPE SO RHI! If only I knew how long it will take....

[btdt]

Well, lets hope I get better. I dont believe it much, but i would like to. 3 months has passed....I would be grateful to have better days next 6 months but I am not sure...

It is ok not to be sure now but if I had to bet I would bet within the next 3 months you will see a change.  Try the relaxation suggested.  My instincts say that there is something that deep relaxation does to improve the situation I have no idea what it is but from experience something shifts if you get enough of it.  I found getting to that place by trial and error I tried everything I seen baths in epson salts and head phones with oceans sounds while have heat on my spine were the first two things that helped. 

It will come.  

[Nikki]

Hi Wolfhound...I was very interested by what btdt and Alex said, and chances are good that it will be true for you too.  I do understand how you feel about having young children at home and wanting to be there for them.  There is a guilt and shame issue involved there which fuels anxiety.  It comes with the territory of being a Mom.  We just can't allow ourselves to be sick or have these types of issues going on.

 

Is there anyway you can find some compassion for yourself in regards to the kids?  You would probably tell anyone one of us to do that for ourselves why not for you.  It may help alleviate some of the pressure.

 

Sending some healing prayers your way.

 

Hang in there, you are a very strong woman.

[mattinsmom]

Just checking in on you. I wanted to say that you are one of my heroes. I hear how hard things are for you. I hear the pain in your writing and yet you keep coming back. I know your children are a concern for you but just look at what a strong, committed mom you are showing them. They may not understand it now, but someday they will be old enough to understand that you kept standing through all of this because you love them. You are so much stronger than you know.  

[Wolfhound]

My children have always been the most important part of my life. I am desperate because of them. I cannot be the mom i was before, the mom they used to know. It makes me suffering so much, i cannot describe it.

[btdt]

My children have always been the most important part of my life. I am desperate because of them. I cannot be the mom i was before, the mom they used to know. It makes me suffering so much, i cannot describe it.

I could not either and I was a single parent.  I did the best I could which was not good enough I know it wasn't but surprisingly it did pass and tho I agonized over the situation it all turned out ok.  I have spent way too much of my life thinking about how this all could have been skipped and I refuse to go down that path as it sucks the life out of all the good there is.  No it is not perfect it is not the way we would want to be around our kids.  We are not the people we know we could be but it is a mistake to think we can do anything about this.  We cannot change what has happened and make it go away. Accepting that this is how it is now but that it will change is the best way to get thru this.  In the future when your well there will be stability and a safe place to think of these things and rant and do whatever else you may wish to do about them... like truly enjoy every minute you can with your kids ect.  But just now you need to limit the amount of grief you allow yourself and anger too the negativity is bad for you healing.  So if you can muster it distract yourself watch a cartoon do a relaxation tape take a short walk have a bath.  

 

I liken this to asking a person who just had a heart attack to run a marathon... we would not expect or suggest that to them... this is the same when your emotions are out of whack it is not the time to deal with important heart issues. 

I am fine with hearing and I know you will have some and I know too how thinking this way is hard to stop... likely you will not be able to stop it completely but try to notice when it comes and take your thought process some place else this will take effort on your part sometimes great effort.  In ways I cannot even explain I have fought for my child in this way... to stay..to heal to be in the future.  You will not find this type of mothering work in a parenting magazine and there will be no awards or credit given for it ever.  Still to many of us this is part of mothering.  Surviving till the healing can take place and gradually up your other mothering rolls that you will find in the parenting magazines.  It will come in time. This is all normal is the other thing I would like to say you are a normal person going thru an abnormal experience.  I have talked to other mothers who have gone thru this you will likely find some here when your well who you will help thru this process.  

I hope your finding things to get you thru this time and making a safe place a tool box so you have the things you need. 

peace B

[bubble]

Dear btdt and wolfhound,

 

I'm thinking a lot about what WH is going through and what you wrote below is exactly my thinking at this time: 

 

No it is not perfect it is not the way we would want to be around our kids.  We are not the people we know we could be but it is a mistake to think we can do anything about this.  We cannot change what has happened and make it go away. Accepting that this is how it is now but that it will change is the best way to get thru this.

 

After 6 months it is time to start thinking about acceptance so that less energy is wasted on regrets and thinking how we are not the way we used to be. I know this is awfully hard. I was 19 when I got terribly depressed and I spent years feeling awful about not being my old self, waiting to wake up one morning and feeling the same as once before when I coud live and feel and be. But life was happening while I was waiting.

 

For me it's similar to losing a leg in let's say a car accident or getting paralysed (it's not the same because brain is plastic and we can heal, this Humpty Dumpty can be put together again). But a person without a leg or paralysed can still live and be a parent, only in a different way and by focusing on the things they can still do instead of crying over things they have lost.

 

We live, broken but we are here and have to live the best way we can.

 

I'm scared this might seem insensitive to Wolfhound because I know how many years it took me to understand that acceptance doesn't mean defeat and that things will stay the same for ever but living the best I can with what I have.

[btdt]

I think we do things our kids need all the time that go beyond what we thought we could do because it needs to be done.  

I am addressing this:

"So that inner tension/balance, constantly moving and evolving process you describe so beautifully, Marc, is very much of the essence. As you write, it’s hard to describe in any objective, concrete terms. But all the more reason to reaffirm its centrality, to ourselves, to those around us, to the institutions and experts that expound and classify us from the outside. It’s also a reason I’m such a fan of bring out individual stories. No one is the same and yet each is universal in its uniqueness and potential to inspire, educate and reassure others."

[btdt]

Had I been childless and single I imagine my "healing" would have taken a much different course.  I had to dig deep and without a reason to do it I truly don't know I would have been able to stay and suffer when I could have left. I stayed I suffered I hoped for better things.  I was defeated over and over again yet I got back up because I had to... and I went on one foot in front of the other.  Using what I had learned from the previous fall to help me maybe do better at the next fall.  I took a very long time for me to stop expecting to fall.  Learning from what we have suffered is part of this learning ways to get beyond it... to go around it to circumvent it climb the hell over it... escape it and live a life connecting to those we love.  Even it we can't feel it at first they don't know we can't feel it ... reading a bedtime story to a child they know you are there doing it ... so you don't feel so great doing it ... they don't know they know what we show them. 

Story too long and involved the first time... pick a shorter story adapt... learn it will get better. As our brains are changing we are changing to we are not helpless not completely not always... there are things we can do. Small tiny things that our old selves did without a thought that we will struggle with... but as we gain ground on these we help ourselves heal. Tiny things we can accomplish become mountains inside us... from tiny stones houses are built...not just houses but homes and lives.

[mattinsmom]

My kids don't have the mom I used to be. 

My kids don't have the mom I want to be, yet.

My kids do have a mom, and that is the most important part. 

As long as they have that, we can work on the rest. 

[bubble]

You are so incredible Wolfhound that in this agony you live you find the space to reach out to us when we are not doing well. that's why I always see the real you clearly distinct from all those symptoms that hit you...

 

I've noticed you haven't been mentioning depersonalization/derealization experiences nor hallucinations for some time... Do we there to hope they have gone?

[btdt]

I hope your having a good day today. Baby steps when you can take them... even if you don't see any healing or progress it is happening inside you believe it because it is true.  Where you put your energies that is where you brain will focus let it be something positive.  Focusing on symptoms will keep you there focusing on symptoms... color a picture and don't bother answering questions you don't want to answer or in any way going towards negativity... turn away.  Carry on color a picture... kiss a child. 

[Wolfhound]

Hi Bubble and Bdtd,

 as far as symptoms are concerned, what is now predominating is the negative thinking, suicidality and other withdrawal depressive symptoms. Tonight there are few better evening hours. I fear morning the most, usually anxiety through the roof and not only anxiety.

The worst for me is the acceptance, I still cannot accept the fact my personality was so modified by medication. It s been three months since the cold turkey and I am still dreaming about my former self, about my former capacities. I keep telling myself that I must accept what I have now.....I must try to be the mom I can be....even if I were in bed most of the day....even if I still have support in my husband who simply stands by me no matter how bad I feel . He is amazing after all these years we are together I can count on him. I am not sure I can count on me though...sometimes I feel I am so near being completely mad....I fear I can do something stupid...I always try to hug one of my children to touch reality....to be able to survive another hour....

[bubble]

As I just wrote on Muddle's thread, I'm very hopeful! I see things moving and changing and it's a very good sign that recovery is happening.

 

Have you read about windows and waves pattern of recovery?

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

 

the anxiety in the morning we call cortisol mornings because it is then that this substance surges in our bodies and there are things which can make this less horrible experiences more bearable. Alto writes about that a lot. Are you taking any magnesium? I had to order some online from Iherb and it came to me all the way from California together with some strong fish oil and taurine I couldn't find in our pharmacies here (it was the same price as here but the bottles were a lot bigger!!!

 

I know how painful it is when you can't remember things, become totally slow, lose creativity... in short lose who you were as you say. But it comes back! and I firmly believe it's on it's way to come back to you soon.

 

big hug,

 

bubble

[Wolfhound]

Thank you bubble!!

I notice changes in symptoms but i dont notice windows and waves....still not.

I am taking magnesium and fish oil, imagine that I was given magnesium in hospital! And I told a doc in hospital that I want to take fish oil and he said yes, of course I read about the fish oil being very good in treating depressions:-)))

[bubble]

wow! luckily I don't have experience with hospitals but yours definitely doesn't sound typical! (It is very untypical  in that they didn't throw more meds at you when you developed symptoms...)

 

I've been friends with a guy specializing in psychiatry and got so disappointed in him as a young doctor when he just brushed off my comment that getting of ADs triggers depression (and a host of other things) as nonsense Nonsense that so many of us have to live...

[Muddles]

I have got pure EPA fish oil that I ordered a couple of months ago as I read EPA is more beneficial than the DHA for depression and mood. I am too scared to try them though. Maybe I should give them a try.

 

bubble - phyciatrist's, friend or not will never accept that drugs can cause these problems.

I am hoping that it will become more recognised in the future....may see a decrease in mental health problems then too!

[btdt]

I am glad there is a change movement is good. 

[Wolfhound]

_Well,

_{I have some very good experience with psychiatrists in hospitals. They definitely do NOT recognise withdrawal. This really not. But the top psychiatrist in my country recognised my adverse reactions to trazadone and mirtazapine. I even met psychiatrists that told me never to take any antidepressants anymore, that I am a specific case that cannot stand antidepressants probably because of some genetic inheritence.But I met one that wanted me to take every other psychiatric drug possible - I took one half pill and immediately had a reaction that he recognised and finally stopped trying drugs on me telling me that I am a case that cannot be cured using medication. So as far as psychiatrists are concerned I must acknowledge that there are psychiatrists able to recognise adverse effects.}

_{Unfortunately I have not met any that would recognise withdrawal, as I say, we dont have any Dr. Healy in my country.}

[btdt]

It is a start I have never been hospitalized with all I have been thru I have been to emerg many times and never been admitted. I guess it is a start to have them notice a reaction.  Better than I found 20 some years ago. Did the give any specifics on what this genetic inheritance was?  I am curious about it if you learn more please post.  I would imagine to if there is a known genetic cause that knowing the cause could possibly help with finding a cure... for the immediate symptoms. It is just a thought. 

I have not meant any doctors in my country either who recognize withdrawal.  Not that I am seeing any at this point I am not and doubt I ever will again.

[Wolfhound]

Even if I am feeling terrible, I am happy to make the doctors look at someone who simply cannot tolerate psych drugs. I think its important they realise there are really people that cannot "digest" it.

As far as the genetics Bdtd, I do not know it exactly and I am afraid the psychiatrists neither. One of the doctors has been talking with me about the gene family CYP450 as the source of my intolerance, the same family that Yolanda Lucire in Australia wrote about in her study about psychic akathisia. So maybe this is the right track....

[Altostrata]

There's a big fad in psychiatry now having to do with blaming P450 liver enzymes for drug intolerance. But there can be many reasons for drug intolerance.

 

However, if you are lacking in specific P450 liver enzymes, while that might be physiologically normal, you can be in big trouble taking psychiatric drugs and some other drugs, too.

[Rhiannon]

Hi Wolfhound, just wanted to stop by and say hello...

[Wolfhound]

There's a big fad in psychiatry now having to do with blaming P450 liver enzymes for drug intolerance. But there can be many reasons for drug intolerance.

 

However, if you are lacking in specific P450 liver enzymes, while that might be physiologically normal, you can be in big trouble taking psychiatric drugs and some other drugs, too.

Altostrata, thank you. I know that. And I dont know whether I lack these enzymes or not, it was only one of the opinions I was considering regarding the fact that I had an adverse reaction at a low dose. But I dont have a definite proof of my poor metabolism.