Jshect major issues with Wellbutrin/Deplin and klonopin addiction

[Jshect]

Yes, the pharmaceutical companies are happy to help you get on their meds, but could care less about helping you off of them. I probably pay around $200 a month for these stupid medications. that's $2400 a year. And I'm one person. x that by 50 million. 

[mammaP]

Yes, the pharmaceutical companies are happy to help you get on their meds, but could care less about helping you off of them. I probably pay around $200 a month for these stupid medications. that's $2400 a year. And I'm one person. x that by 50 million. 

That's why they don't give advice on getting off their drugs, they want everyone on them for life to 

keep the $ coming in  ! 

[Jshect]

Today is day three of slowly tapering off of the Bystolic, and I started getting a ton of PVCs. After a while of that I took 1/3 of a pill of Bystolic. According to our theory, the downers are what is causing the PVCs and that seems to be the case. The Bystollic is definitely a downer why is it having this effect. I also tried an herb combination today, so maybe that is factoring in this too. I know I shouldn't do two things at once, but I'm desperate to keep my energy level up. I'm pretty certain I was having the PVCs before I took the herbs. Even though Bystolic is a downer, it is prescribed to stop PVCs so this could just be a temporary withdrawal symptom. That must be it. When I reduced the loxapine the PVCs decreased, so I would think reducing the Bystolic would also decrease PVCs.

...15 minutes later. The PVCs have decreased since I took the beta blocker. This situation is so confusing. I don't know what to do.

[Altostrata]

Did you decrease the Bystolic by only 25%? Perhaps you need less of a decrease, you might go back to 85% of 2.5mg.

[Jshect]

I don't know how much I decreased it by. The pill is very irregularly shaped. It's like a strange triangle. I just cut off a tiny bit with a pill cutter. I probably took anywhere from 80-90%. I may have to crush it into a powder and reduce by even smaller amounts. I don't know. There could be something going on with my heart besides just the downer/upper theory. Maybe the beta blocker is actually helping to reduce the PVCs for some reason. Or maybe the withdrawal symptom is simply PVCs.

[Altostrata]

Paradoxical reactions from "downers" may not explain all your PVCs. Your system could be confused in a lot of directions.

 

Perhaps you should stick with the Bystolic, it's probably the least noxious of your drugs, taper it last.

[Jshect]

Well I don't know what to do. Whenever I lower Loxapine I have to raise the klonopin. This process would probably be about 1000 times easier if I had never been put on the Klonopin. I decreased the Loxapine from `10 mg to 8 mg, and I got major withdrawal from Klonopin. At first it's nice (boost in memory, cognitive functioning) but then it gets worse to the point where I start to lose touch with reality a little. Not Good!! At 10 mg loxapine, I was taking .625 mg klonopin. Now, I am taking about 1.75 mg just to feel normal. I think when the bad withdrawal symptoms go away I will be able to lower the Klonopin. I think now I am taking a larger quantity to reduce the withdrawal symptoms. I looked into liquid oxcarbazepine and it's like $150 a bottle. Is there anyway I can crush it, and create a solution?

[Altostrata]

You might find it less expensive to have it compounded into a liquid by a pharmacy.

 

Googling, I found this http://pedsbrain.com/TRILEPTAL.doc

Trileptal comes in tablets (150mg, 300mg, and 600mg)as well as suspension (300mg/5ml). The tablets may be crushed up or chewed. It is generally given twice a day and occasionally three times a day.

This might be good to discuss with a pharmacist http://www.sciencedomain.org/download.php?f=Rani412013BJPR4763_1.pdf&aid=2165

 

For DIY, making a suspension with pharmacy liquid base probably would be the best way to go. These are all my guesses, I haven't actually done this. I would check with a compounding pharmacy.

 

When questions like this arise, please get what information you can out of the smartest pharmacist you can find and Google to see if the question has been asked and answered elsewhere. Share any info you find here to inform others.

[Jshect]

I don't really know what to do. I've got to come up with a plan. The Klonopin is killing me. For a day or a week I'll be extremely intelligent, talkative and creative. (I draw) when my brain is functioning well I can do very complicated drawings very quickly. Then for a while I'll withdraw too much and I'll be a sedated, zombie, and can't focus or carry a conversation. You said if I start to taper the Oxcarbazepine it actually slows down the rate of absorption of the klonopin so I can take less, right? Well that's great. I need to do that then because I was taking 1 1/4 .5 mg pills and now I'm taking close to 4 to try to quickly bring me back to neutral. So I've got 3 issues here well maybe 4 or more.

-I've got to lower the downers first so I don't get PVCs. That seems to be working well.

-I've got to lower the downers and keep my Klonopin levels stable

-I've got to lower the downers and be careful that if they get too low I'll get Bupropion/Deplin induced mania which can be extreme.

 (in fact Klonopin withdrawal seems to possibly be sedating me enough to stop Bupropion/Deplin induced mania.)

-then I will need to lower the uppers without getting pvcs

 

-...Then, once I finally get off of these meds I'm back with my original problem. I'm actually better off with all of this medication insanity now, than I was before it. My brain was constantly fatigued and working at half speed. I couldn't focus for long periods of time. It's not schizo-related, it's not fibromayalgia, there was depression and anxiety, but there was definitely something neurological, I think, that has no name. 

 

-I've been working with an eastern medicine practitioner and this has been extremely beneficial. I am very scientifically minded, this is not psuedoscience. This stuff works. They've been practicing and building upon their knowledge for over 3,000 years. My practitioner worked in psychology/psychiatry for 8 years at an asylum. They started bringing in an acupuncturist to the asylum. He noticed the patient responded very well to very basic acupuncture procedures, and the medications just seemed to f*** the patients up. Now he's like a yoga/acupuncture/chinese herbs/ chinese martial arts/meditation etc. expert. He regularly goes to China to train with masters in China. One session with him reduced my medication related pain more than 3 weeks of physical therapy. I'm just talking this up in case your skeptical. Chi is an energy that flows through the body that follows the blood stream and the nervous system. He'll stick ONE needle in my calf and the whole muscle begin to ache as the chi begins to flow again. my calf may ache for a couple hours, but then the pain leaves completely. Chinese medicine and chi are completely overlooked by bs arrogant Western scientists. You ought to look into this stuff as an alternative, because people coming off of this medication need an alternative once they're off and back at square one...  anyways

 

So I need to formulate a plan with you, and I need to form a plan with my eastern practitioner (Jason), and near by I found out about a "holistic psychiatrist" who could hopefully be willing to get in on this plan (I wish you could just prescribe meds, so I wouldn't have to deal with anymore psychiatrists, but even then I guess there would be no way for you to prescribe out of state (but at least i could deal with you and then you could make $120 for 15 minutes or whatever my psych gets w/ insurance (which you deserve.) I will be making a donation to your website.

So, sorry for the long rant. So, anyway, I need to form a plan with you. 

[Altostrata]

Yes, your situation is very complicated. You do need to make a plan taking the drug interactions into account and you need to collaborate with a knowledgeable doctor.

 

Did you ever contact Neil Sandson? He'd be the one to draft a plan.

 

I am happy to help, but my knowledge is limited. I can't take responsibility for problems you might run into when reducing the drugs. The paradoxical reactions caused by a preponderance of "brakes" is only one facet of the issue.

 

My inclination is to keep things simple and change only one drug at a time, but while reducing loxapine, you're also changing Klonopin, which continually causes the balances to shift. I don't know what to do about the Klonopin withdrawal caused by reduction of other drugs.

 

It's possible you're one of those rare cases who MUST reduce more than one drug at a time, but I don't know which drugs that might be, and I don't want to suggest anything that might increase the cardiac symptoms. A doctor needs to take responsibility for this.

[Jshect]

Yes, I'll contact Neil Sandson. It may be that I have to just completely get off Klonopin first, and then taper the other drugs. If I'm off of it completely, I won't have to worry about how all of the other drugs are going to effect it. I wonder if there is a place I could check myself into to get myself completely off of these meds? I'm just afraid if I found such a place they'd just put me on more drugs

 

Thanks for all of your help!

[Altostrata]

The detox clinics dealing with benzo withdrawal tend to have very fast schedules for tapering.

 

You might do better tapering yourself.

 

I agree, getting off K might be the way to go -- it's a "promiscuous" enzyme inhibitor. But Sandson might have an informed guess.

[Jshect]

Alright, I have tried contacting Neil Sandson at both numbers listed and neither of the knuckle draggers who answered the phone knew who he was? Apparently he's not listed as working at either place. Does anyone know how to contact him?

[Altostrata]

Please use Google to find him.

[Jshect]

I did. The same #'s are listed over and over again. The people who answered the phones did not sound too bright. One said he used to work where I called, but now they don't know where he is. I will try again

[Altostrata]

http://www.amazon.com/Drug-Interactions-Casebook-Cytochrome-System/dp/1585620912
 

 

Neil B. Sandson, M.D., is Director of the Division of Education and Residency Training at Sheppard Pratt Health System in Towson, Maryland; Associate Director of the University of Maryland/Sheppard Pratt Psychiatry Residency Program; and Clinical Assistant Professor of the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Maryland Medical System in Baltimore, Maryland.

 

 

Phone book White pages

 

http://www.whitepages.com/name/Neil-B-Sandson/Towson-MD/62v8nxq

[Jshect]

no. He is no longer working at the number listed in white pages. For some reason he has moved on and hasn't updated any of his contact info. Maybe, he had a mental breakdown or something. I left my number with the people at the Sheppard Pratt Health System and they are going to try and track him down. He also has a cell and an email listed here:

http://www.mirecc.va.gov/visn5/about/cv/Sandson.pdf

I tried both. He was on the voice mail. Maybe I'll get lucky. I'll see if the email makes it through. Right now he is the phantom psychiatrist. I guess I could look at his most recent publication and see where he's working.

I just tried the University of Maryland directory and he is unlisted. When was the last time someone on this forum has spoken with him?

[Jshect]

This is very strange. Maybe he had some sort of huge emergency. This was the last scholarly article he published (in February 2013 on Google scholar)

 http://clinicalschizophrenia.metapress.com/content/rq7gp35p128t1277/

 

It lists him as working at VAMHCS, Baltimore, MD. I've called there already and they say he no longer works there. Strange, Neil just vanished.

surreptitiously though, I found his book drug interactions case book pdf online for free.

 

http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/nadalyousefi/medical%20library/Mental%20Health/drug%20interaction.pdf 

[Jshect]

On a more positive note, my psychiatrist has agreed to get me off of my medications. I like Dr. Kane, he's a nice fellow and he understands all of the liver enzymes involved. It is going to be pure h*ll, but I'm going to get off of the Klonopin first. Oh, this is not going to be fun. I'll stay in touch with my progress. Maybe I could even email some of the people who helped Dr. Sandson write his book, they might know what happened to him, or be able to suggest other experts to consult with.

Finally I am taking action. I just hope I make it through this. Between the occasional semi-loss of touch with reality the klonopin withdrawal causes, the PVCs, the anxiety that gets so bad I can't even function, and the angry super energetic mania the accelerators can cause this is bound to be a disaster. Grab some popcorn and a drink, and check in every once in a while folks, this is bound to be an entertaining show. I just hope I stay out of prison or mental asylum. Just kidding... I think. 

[Altostrata]

Thank you for the pdf of Dr. Sandson's work. Very sorry you haven't been able to reach him. Perhaps he has gotten ill.

 

Good idea to e-mail people who might know him.

 

How is Dr. Kane going to help you go off Klonopin? How did you find him?

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Jshect]

Thank you for the pdf of Dr. Sandson's work. Very sorry you haven't been able to reach him. Perhaps he has gotten ill.

 

Good idea to e-mail people who might know him.

 

How is Dr. Kane going to help you go off Klonopin? How did you find him?

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

Yes, that's so strange about Dr. Sandson. His cell voice mail and his email still work for one of the hospitals he used to work at, but nobody seemed to know who he was, even in the psychiatric department, I'm telling these people in the psychiatric department where he worked that Sandson is an internationally recognized expert on drug interaction, and they don't know who he is. Something very sudden must have happened. I hope he's alright. I hope he's still alive.

Dr. Kane was my psychiatrist before that jerk-off Dr. Alderfer. I went to a rehabilitative center for over a year where I studied accounting, and Dr. Kane was the psychiatrist I met with every week. We became pretty good friends. He is a nice guy and is extremely intelligent. The assumption was that I wasn't functioning very well so the benefits of the medications potentially outweighed the negatives. I agreed to this so I'm as guilty as him.

My brain was not functioning correctly in a way that is hard to describe. I had no energy and could barely function in a job setting, often had hard times with basic conversations like Sluggish Cognitive Tempo or something, daydreaming and poor focus. But when I take tests in High School, college, and IQ tests I'd do really well, so for most of my life, since my grades were decent, it was overlooked. I don't know how to describe it. It's hard for me to explain to people that I can't focus very well, but I get A's on calculus tests. It's ironic. (Actually I do know why, I am very competitive and I get a huge surge of adrenaline which motivated me to kill tests, that's the mentality I get. Unfortunately that adrenaline remains hidden most other times in my life) 

Anyway, I like Dr Kane. This is not all his fault. I've been to many many psychiatrists and nurse practitioners before him and over the years, cumulatively i've been put on the medications I am currently on. Dr. Kane is just the last psychiatrist in this mess. I was on Wellbutrin, an antipsychotic, and a mood stabilizer before him. We tried different mood stabilizers, antipsychotics. He added Deplin into the mix, (it turns out I am deficient in Folic Acid anyways.) The Deplin, Wellbutrin, and daily caffeine intake all combined to create this manic episode. (the trazodone too) I had been sleeping around 12 hours a day and I love exercise, so I welcomed this energetic mania. I lost 40 pounds over the course of a year. Anyway, after a while I got medication related pain, and couldn't exercise and the mania turned into an angry manic depression. The whole time I was an irritable, pushy, jerk, so I realized I had to get off these meds. I tried to lower the accelerators and got PVCs and Dr. Kane, being very mellow and laid back, didn't really want to deal with this chaotic situation, so he sent me to a cardiologist and my doctor to deal with the PVCs. The cardiologist and my Dr. did the usual response from the Western medicine zombies, and their solution was a beta blocker (more drugs.) Anyway, I was so fed up with the PVC anxiety I lowered the brakes simultaneously. The PVCs decreased dramatically so I assumed it was more the beta blocker. I met you, we lowered the brakes, the PVCs disappeared. I kind of hate Dr. Kane because I feel like he abandoned me because he didn't know what to do. Then came Dr. Alderfer (conceited jerk). Back with Kane. I had a pretty good talk with him, and he's willing to get me off of the medications. We were friends before, he at one point taught psychopharmacology at the University of Virginia (which is a very prestigious University founded by Thomas Jefferson), so he understands everything we're talking about on here. I really wish Dr. Sandson could talk with him. I guess Dr. kane's philosophy was that the potential benefits of the drugs outweigh my current mental situation. That and he makes a lot of money.

Anyway, I am pretty stable currently, and I just can't bring myself to start tapering the Klonopin. I just can't go through that now. I can't deal with the anxiety, and the eventual loss of touch with reality. I think I will eventually get fired from my job withdrawing from the Klonopin completely. 

I am now on about 2 mg klonopin. Dr. Kane suggested reducing by .25 per week. I obviously can't do it that quickly. Anyway, this is going to be pure hell, and then I can't take it if I return to my previous brain fog/ brain dead state. I really, really cannot go through that again. I'm 35 years old. Until the mania, I wasted 32 years of my life in that aimless state. (It was so frustrating knowing that I had a brain that was capable of witty conversation, cerebral topics, complex high-paying jobs in mathematics etc. but knowing something was stopping it.) Thank goodness, I found this Eastern Practitioner whom with acupuncture got rid of a majority of my medication pain. The pain was getting so bad, I couldn't walk for long periods of time from the wellbutrin. With this acupuncture I am playing basketball and jogging again, so right now I'm not doing too bad. I'm not ready to go through the hell of withdrawal. I'm trapped. My medical bills are about $700 a month (including insurance). That's about what I make a month. Thank goodness for my parents.

I'm really trapped. Can I count on Dr. Kane when things get rough? Probably not. I probably should email the people who cowrote Sandson's interaction books and find an expert to guide Dr. kane. I just don't know if I even want to deal with anymore psychiatrist even if it was Dr. Sandson himself. I'm sick of Psychiatrists, Neurologist, Cardiologist, whom I've thrown probably $20,000 or $30,000 at (including medication expenses) over the last 15 years. I just don't know.

I mean, what solution do you have to my mental and cognitive problems when I am off of these meds?

[Altostrata]

Ask Dr. Kane to see if he can contact Neil Sandson. He may have ways to do this through his professional network, etc.

 

Sluggish Cognitive Tempo is a just-made-up disorder invented to justify prescribing amphetamine analogs to adults. It is yet another psychiatric pseudo-disorder.

 

Your symptoms could be explained by a B vitamin deficiency combined with discomfort in social situations that was distracting. You could have overcome this with some training and counseling to build up your confidence.

 

It's your choice, you could stop buying into getting a psychiatric diagnosis for what probably are very normal quirks.

 

You need to have a talk with Dr. Kane and politely ask them if he'll be there for you if the going gets tough. Given your history, this is a perfectly acceptable conversation. He should be aware of building a relationship of trust, that's part of a psychiatrist's job.

[Jshect]

Hi guys, just checking in. I am holding steady at 2 mg Klonopin. I have been having withdrawal symptoms trying to adjust to this level, but am now doing better. As I stated earlier, the much cited Dr. Neil Sandson disappeared from the face of the planet, have you found any other doctors that I could consult with on severe interaction issues since Alto said my issues are out of her expertise? 

[Altostrata]

Good to hear you're hanging in there.

 

Dr. Kane should be helping you with this. Did you ask him to see if he could consult with Neil Sandson?
 
Dr. Sandson is at the VA now http://www.mirecc.va.gov/visn5/about/research_investigators.asp neil.sandson@va.gov

 

http://www.va.gov/providerinfo/maryland/detail.asp?providerid=897 10 North Greene Street Baltimore, MD 21201 410-605-7000

 

David Flockhart is also an expert in drug-drug interactions http://medicine.iupui.edu/faculty-profile/dflockha/Flockhart-David-A./

Other doctors who might have an interest in drug-drug interactions, both in Washington, DC:

Kelly L. Cozza, MD, FAPM
Gary H. Wynn, MD, FAPM
 

I don't know any of these doctors. I found their names only by Googling, which is something you can do, jshect. If they can't consult with your doctor, you or he should ask them for other doctors who might do so.

 

I know it's difficult for you to manage this, but I cannot do this for you. You need to assert yourself and express your needs to your doctor.

 

Here's some background information about drug-drug interactions in psychiatry: http://www.thecarlatreport.com/free_articles/drug-interactions-psychiatry-practical-review-free-article

[Jshect]

Sorry, I just searched my email and found out that Neil Sampson did respond to me about two weeks after I sent him an email. In my defense I did search far and wide for him on google, and for some strange reason the people at the VA had no knowledge of him even working there. The strange thing is I talked to several different people continually going up the ladder of importance who worked there.

He said he can't consult with anyone outside of the VA system, but he said he could recommend doctors he believed could help me. Thank goodness I searched my email. I'll keep you updated.

[Altostrata]

That is truly good news. Please do let us know what doctors he recommends.

[Jshect]

Dr. Sandson has recommended Dr. Mark Comrad and Dr. Douglas Heinrichs, both of MD, as is Sandson so I assume he's worked with them. I'll have to see if these doctors have published any research.

I'll update you on my current situation:

The only changes in my medication have been an increase in Loxapine from 8 mg to 8.15 mg, a decrease in Oxcarbazepine from 150 mg to slightly less, and unfortunately an increase in Klonopin from 625 to 2 mg.

I was holding steady at 2 mg for a while, but have developed a tolerance and began to experience withdrawal symptoms, so I increased the Loxapine to 8.1 mg. That kept the withdrawal symptoms at bay for a while, but then the tolerance and withdrawal symptoms returned. The early stages of withdrawal are for some reason pleasant, but soon (what I have called) my 2nd phase of withdrawal included excruciating anxiety. After a few weeks of unbearable misery I started shaving off part of the Oxcarbazepine pills and took 8.15 mg of Loxapine. This has worked but I can't keep this up forever and will eventually have to get off of the Klonopin which will be pure h*** and may take over a year. 

What the h*** am I supposed to do for a living when I am going through those brutal, prolonged withdrawal phases? I can't think or focus at all when I have extreme anxiety. In the last phase of withdrawal I start to sort of loose touch with reality. MISERY! So seriously, if anyone has any ideas for what I can do for a living while getting off of Klonopin please let me know. I might have to wash dishes or something.

My past issues and current predicament:

for nearly my entire life I have had depression, severe anxiety, and very severe brain fog (which included poor focus, low energy, slow cognition, confusion, poor memory). When I got on the Wellbutrin/ Deplin/ caffeine combination my energy level dramatically improved, but I had many bad side effects that I have mentioned throughout this post. When I began the initial, pleasant withdrawal stage from Klonopin, for some reason it calmed me down, but jolted my mind awake (lifted me out of the brain fog, reduced the confusion allowing my brain function better, and I felt like a normal person for the first time in my life.) So that's why I've been holding steady on it for so long. Unfortunately, I can't always remain in that phase of withdrawal forever, and will have to get off the klonopin. So, as I stated, I'll have to go through a brutal reduction period. Then I will have to get off the sedatives and stimulants without causing too many PVCs which also cause debilitating anxiety...

...if I can do that, then I'm, unfortunately, back where I started. I am working with a counselor on dealing with my anxiety and depression. But the brain fog, that can be caused by one million and one factors. Returning to that state of brain fog is absolutely unacceptable to me. Maybe I should look for a specialist who deals with brain fog, just like I've looked for specialists for my drug interactions. I don't know but I've got a tough road ahead of me, and the future is very uncertain.

[Meimeiquest]

Have you ever looked at potential gut issues? I have had break fog/fatigue issues for years and this is helping me a lot.

[Jshect]

Have you ever looked at potential gut issues? I have had break fog/fatigue issues for years and this is helping me a lot.

What gut issues did you have you have, how did you find out it was your gut causing your symptoms, and how did you solve those problems?

[Meimeiquest]

Ummm, my benzo is starting to work and I have to wait for tomorrow to think. But if you have time tonight, you can watch Dr. Perlmutter att autoimmunesummit.com . I think access ends at 10 am ET tomorrow, not sure.

[Altostrata]

jshect, you need to minimize that horrible drug cocktail. I would phone those doctors and ask if they can recommend anyone nearer you. If necessary, make a visit to Maryland. Once they see you in person, they may prescribe for you over the phone.

 

Your current psychiatrist may also consult with those doctors. I've suggested this many times. Have you discussed this with him?

[Jshect]

jshect, you need to minimize that horrible drug cocktail. I would phone those doctors and ask if they can recommend anyone nearer you. If necessary, make a visit to Maryland. Once they see you in person, they may prescribe for you over the phone.

 

Your current psychiatrist may also consult with those doctors. I've suggested this many times. Have you discussed this with him?

I try to see my current psychiatrist as little as possible because I feel like it's a waste of $ and I feel like he doesn't deserve the $100 he gets for 15 minutes. I'll contact those doctors and see if we can figure out a plan, and whether I can just deal with them, or if they want to consult with Dr. Kane.

 

Meimeiquest I watched Dr. Perlmutter's presentation. It was incredible. To think so many of our modern problems ranging from cancer, Alzheimer's, Diabetes, heart disease, autism, adhd, mental disorders could possibly be heavily influenced by poor gut health, and leaky gut, which result in chronic inflammation of the entire body and brain, it's crazy. And it's infuriating that these studies are out there and Big Food and Big Pharma don't care and would rather the info did not get out.  Big Food is still pushing high carb/low fat foods. Can you share your brain fog problem and solution please?

[Meimeiquest]

Hi J, It is all very complicated, isn't it. I have never had GI symptoms, but I started hearing of people who resolved different physical and brain problems through resolving food intolerances. I really didn't want it to be me...it's a pain in the neck. But that is how my exploring started. I have moved in and out of it over the years...I could deny it because my gut seemed fine, but diet clearly affected my energy and mood.

 

There are two major diets that people look to: Gastroenterology and Psychology Syndrome (or something like that, it is called GAPS) and Paleo Autoimmune (PAI). You can google gaps vs. paleo autoimmune for people's opinion. This is one opinion: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/gaps-or-autoimmune-paleo-to-heal-autoimmune-disease/

 

Dr. Permuller has also written a book, I believe it is called Wheat Brain, on his thoughts as a neurologist. Apparently he has just come out with a recipe book.

 

Yesterday I saw a new (yet another) psychiatrist. I had a brain MRI for rather random reasons in 2004. It was full of white spots. This doctor said Dr. Permuller believes these lesions completely heal with his protocol.

 

So good luck as you pursue getting well!

[Jshect]

Hi J, It is all very complicated, isn't it. I have never had GI symptoms, but I started hearing of people who resolved different physical and brain problems through resolving food intolerances. I really didn't want it to be me...it's a pain in the neck. But that is how my exploring started. I have moved in and out of it over the years...I could deny it because my gut seemed fine, but diet clearly affected my energy and mood.

 

There are two major diets that people look to: Gastroenterology and Psychology Syndrome (or something like that, it is called GAPS) and Paleo Autoimmune (PAI). You can google gaps vs. paleo autoimmune for people's opinion. This is one opinion: http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/gaps-or-autoimmune-paleo-to-heal-autoimmune-disease/

 

Dr. Permuller has also written a book, I believe it is called Wheat Brain, on his thoughts as a neurologist. Apparently he has just come out with a recipe book.

 

Yesterday I saw a new (yet another) psychiatrist. I had a brain MRI for rather random reasons in 2004. It was full of white spots. This doctor said Dr. Permuller believes these lesions completely heal with his protocol.

 

So good luck as you pursue getting well!

Yes, I own Grain Brain but never got around to reading it. It was sort of surreal, Dr. Permutter said that autistic people have reductions in symptoms when they get a fever (similarly I had extreme reductions in brain fog when I got fevers in the past, in fact I loved getting fevers.) Some scientists speculated that a chemical is produced more when you get a fever and that chemical fights free radicals in the brain and reduces inflammation. they isolated that chemical and did a double blind study and there was dramatic improvement in those who received the chemical. I'm not saying correlation equals causation, but it is interesting, maybe my brain fog was caused by brain inflammation which our modern diet causes (in everyone to differing degrees.) We should start a nutrition and mental illness section on here. I even read a study in which a gluten-free diet reduced schizophrenic symptoms. It's just very, very hard to do a 180 degree change of your diet!!!!! I don't have a whole lot of willpower, especially with food. I think on the forum Psychcentral they may have a nutrition section.

[mammaP]

That is very interesting Jshect. I was really ill with depression/withdrawal when I got pneumonia years ago. I was 

critically ill but suddenly my head felt very clear and I was trying to clean the windows! My psychiatrist told me that 

it happens a lot that a patients depression lifts when they have a life threatening illness, even when they are not

aware of that illness. This makes sense so thanks for  sharing that gem. 

[Meimeiquest]

It is hard, really really hard. And finding the time and money is a whole separate issue. But I do think awareness is the first step.