☼ Miami1 Stabilizing on mirtazapine

[mlrp]

Well said CW! Thank you again for helping me back on the right track!

 

Ditto! I think I'm going to print that and add it to my journal. I really needed to read this because I am new to accepting that this is going to be a long road and I have to get off Wellbutrin and (probably) lorazepam before I can even tackle the dreaded Remeron. And extreme insomnia (days on end with zero sleep) was what got me started on Remeron so I have something of a phobia about insomnia. Thanks, CW.

 

And Miami1, sending you healing thoughts. I care about your plight.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Miami,

 

Glad you are not upset, I realize I may have been a bit harsh. If you were a med compliant patient like I was I am sure you find it very hard not to take something to ease symptoms. Sheesh, we are bombarded daily by the media that pushes pills for every ill. We have to stop depending on them. The only 'med' I take now is the mag citrate only because I had severe heart palpitations and those left me in a constant state of upset.

 

You probably never read my thread but after I CT my meds, I felt relatively well for a long time and questioned why I was still reading and participating on this board. I thought I was recovered already. But I got into trouble using vistaril because my doc told me to. He thought I had some sort of allergy because my eye swelled up. Little did I know it was the beginning of severe WD brought on by poor diet, careless sleeping habits, lack of exercise and too much deep meditation. By the time it started in earnest I had been off meds for a whole year. Had I not been here I would never have known what hit me. That's why I hammered you about popping pills.

 

Mlrp, I am glad you feel you were helped too. What will help you more is unhooking your mind from it's dread of insomnia. I have had to do that myself so I know it can be done. I used to fly into a rage and start throwing my pillows and covers and slapping myself whenever some noise woke me up because I knew there would be no more sleep for me until bedtime rolled around again and I hated being conscious for all of those hours because the thoughts rolling through my mind were horrendous and I felt so physically awful. But I persisted and gradually my body adapted and adjusted to getting 'rest' till finally it would relax enough to sleep. Yours can too. Walk, eat, drink water, lie down and rest. Keep doing it. The body thrives on constancy. I proved that to myself. And use whatever distraction you can find to get through the bad moments, hours, days. You will eventually win.

[Miami1]

Hi CW : hello to all;

I ended up getting a window last week and at the third day decided to make another cut on the remeron.

I went from 1mg to .9mg.

3 days later I got slammed. I now know I was over zealous feeling almost normal those few days and screwed it up by cutting and cutting too much.

 

I'm again having horrible WD symptoms and my .1 cut was Tuesday night.

This Saturday is when it hit me, so should I hold on the .9 like I was advised to do in the past or should I consider going up a tad to minimize this mess?

Again pls continue to have a little patience w/ me. I really appreciate and need your support .

 

Thx , Miami

[Altostrata]

I would hold on the .9mg.

 

In the future, allow your nervous system longer to recover (windows) before you make a cut. Then you might cut by 0.05mg, since you seem sensitive to .1mg cuts.

[Miami1]

Thk u Alto :

today I started to feel better late morning and improvement till around 2pm. Then at 3pm very dizzy at standing then driving HM the horrible feelings of fear anxiety and the thought of being stuck feeling like this for ever came back. Once I got home I went for a 40 min walk. Still feel horrible but better than yesterday.

How long before sx reach max intensity?

 

Thx

[Jemima]

Everyone is different, so there's no set time when symptoms will reach maximum intensity. Thinking this will never end is a withdrawal symptom in itself. Just keep in mind that the only constant in life is change, so this will also change eventually.

[Miami1]

Thk u J.

I am thankful for feeling better today than I did the last three days .

Hopefully the cut is starting to settle or could be I'm just exuaghted from 3 nights of very little sleep.

Thx everyone

[Altostrata]

Miami, please make an effort to stay calm about your symptoms. They will come and go. Try to be patient and not add to them with worry.

[Miami1]

full steam ahead on effort . Thank you Alto

[wulfgar]

Hi Miami,

 

Hang in there! It takes a while after a cut. Be gentle with yourself and try to !distract! yourself from symptoms and sleep problems! Next time your stable, you might try living a week or two or three in stability and give yourself a break? Our soul hurts in withdrawal as well and needs some healing time!

 

Wulfgar

[Miami1]

Hey Wulf :

Yep I agree! I've been in WD for so many months and so confused on whether is the mirt or the benzo WD that it just adds stress to an already dire problem. So I'm sticking to .9 for a while. The anxiety has been extreme the past 24 hours. I just hope it passes soon.

 

Thk for ck in on me !

[Miami1]

Hi all it's been ten days since my last cut of 0.1mg. It's 6am and have not been able to sleep the entire night because of the extreme level of anxiety. I have my moments but over all have been working hard at staying calm. This anxiety has been with me now for a solid 36 hours. Wondering when might I get a break?

Thx

[Skyler]

Miami... I'm sorry you are still feeling so much stress.. but unclear as to why you are cutting so fast. At least it seems so... this from your sig line

 

"Remeron jan6/14 3.75mg

2/.8/14 stop rem ct@3.75mg -Back on rem 1.87mg 2/21/14

May2,) 8mg @ 8:30pm& .2 @ 9:30pm -May 22 @ .9 mg "

 

I'm struggling to follow your sig line with the @, -, and ) characters. I guess I'm not clear on why you took a cut on May 22 instead of taking more time to stabilize. Were you feeling better before that? You were only at 1 mg for 3 weeks before you cut further? If I had dropped at the rate you have, more than 50% in 3 months on top of the previous too steep benzo taper.. I would have been absolutely miserable. I'm a poster child for the 10% (hold if needed) rule. I was able to cut 15% off Lyrica for a couple of months.. but that is warp speed for me!. My recommendation is for you to hold for 6 months, a year, or better, until most if not all of your WD symptoms are gone. Then and only then resume.

[Miami1]

Hello Sky:

I will hold on current dose. I've come down rapidly cause of over stimulation from the higher doses. I also thought being so low I wouldn't feel the drop. I feel I'm deteriorating it's hitting me harder by the week. So the concept is staying on my current dose I should eventually feel better come out of this hell?

[Skyler]

Hello Sky:

I will hold on current dose. I've come down rapidly cause of over stimulation from the higher doses. I also thought being so low I wouldn't feel the drop. I feel I'm deteriorating it's hitting me harder by the week. So the concept is staying on my current dose I should eventually feel better come out of this hell?

The lower the dose it, the more care you need to take.. the lower you go, the harder it becomes. In other words, the lower the dose, the more important it it to follow the 10% rule. It took me a year to taper off 2 mgs of diazepam.

 

It's doubtful the dose of remeron you are now on will keep causing overstimulation, but continued cutting will make you very sick. As you were feeling better before the cut on May 22, you will feel better if you hold. And much better with a good long HOLD.

[Miami1]

Right.

So hang on and I will eventual stabilize on the current dose ?

[Skyler]

The very high probability says YES. Just as you thought taking a pill would make your depression better, you are now expecting that adjusting the dose will make you feel better. Pills are not the answer, you need to refocus your attention. Take the same dose every day and forget about the idea of cutting.

[Miami1]

Thank you sky.

Unfortunately this med was given to me to help sleep coming off of z drug using benzos to taper or more accurately ct in dec.

I should have taken the initial sleepless nights. This mirt WD is as bad as benzo WD .

[Skyler]

Thank you sky.

Unfortunately this med was given to me to help sleep coming off of z drug using benzos to taper or more accurately ct in dec.

I should have taken the initial sleepless nights. This mirt WD is as bad as benzo WD .

That's because this is added to the benzo WD. It's going to take some time.. But continued dose adjustments will make that time much longer. Check out the Symptoms and Self-Care forum, and plan to HOLD for at least SIX months. NO more tweaking.

[Miami1]

Help ;

Well tonight after I dosed I thought I'd fall asleep fairly quick since I was nodding out and exhausted from zero sleep last night.

Instead after I dosed I stated revving up. What in the world is going on? Can it be I'm getting adverse effects from mirtz and my system is just rejecting the drug? The drug for sleep is keeping me up 2nd night.

 

Thx , Miami

[wulfgar]

ct of benzo an mirtazapine reduction has put your stress system in a highly volatile state. Our stress system works in a cascading manner.  Non linear. Like, if you stumble on a angry bear, your reaction is not linear, like, oh gosh, this might be dangerous. You instantly do the running and screaming. When you are in this volatile state, anything can set this of, your threshold is so low. You are probably running above threshold constantly. I reacted to the slightest difference in my wife's behavior, sudden sounds, indigestion, thoughts of my condition, taking meds etc. This is also one reason to go slow, work 200% with non drug stress interventions. To get yourself below the threshold where everything escalates.

You had a window before this last cut!? Thats god, if possible, find a way there again and stay put.

[Miami1]

Wulf I'm praying I can get there. You said it it right, anything that is going on around me is stressful. I'm so discouraged.

Thx

[Miami1]

Pls need advice.

I'm starting to get the racing feeling after dosing. Back to one night some sleep next night zero. It's 4am this happens to be the zero night.

 

What can I do if I continue to rev after dosing? I'm still no where near stable in fact I'm worst than ever.

I'd love to just jump but I'm to beat up at the time. Suggestions ?

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Miami,

 

The drug may have been initially given to you for sleep by a well-meaning doctor but for you, who is in WD, it is not helping for sleep. You have to stop thinking it will help you sleep.

 

You need to stop changing the dose period. Your nervous system needs time to adjust. It adjust a whole lot slower than your mind does.

 

I am wondering why you take it so close to bedtime since it has long been apparent that it has been activating instead of calming. Wasn't it suggested some time ago to gradually move the dose up so you are taking it earlier in the day? (Sorry I don't remember). I think this is usually done by moving the dose an hour each day till you get to a more appropriate hour.

 

Whether you stay on the drug and stabilize or jump (you are hinting at doing that again) the advice will still be the same - see the Symptoms and Self Care forum on ideas to cope.

 

I know the feeling all to well of wanting to sleep but being unable to. Remember, you have to concentrate on getting rest instead and use distraction during your waking hours to keep your mind from obsessing on sleep. it will come, that is a fact. Some nights it won't, but you will be able to cope anyway.

 

Hang in there and let your body stabilize. Walk every day (no more than 1/2 hour at a gentle pace and make sure it is earlier in the day). Drink 16-32 oz of water. Eat something every 2 hours and lightly before bed. Make sure your in between meal snacks include fruit or a veggie and some protein. Lie down in bed at a certain time every night and get out of bed at a set time every morning whether you have slept or not. Concentrate on remaining calm and 'resting' during that time. This is what brings stability. I also take 100 mg of mag citrate in tablet form at supper and an hour before bed. (mag glycinate works too).

 

I know all too well how much you are suffering. The suffering is a withdrawal symptom. Did you see Jemima's post on the book for coping with depression? It's here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6471-500-tidbits-of-insightliving-with-and-overcoming-depression/?p=89903

 

You can put the Kindle reader on your PC or phone and read it randomly whenever you need to calm down. This will help steer your mind away from it's obsession with sleep. Yes, your body is telling you it needs sleep but your mind's obsession with it is causing it to become a struggle. Remember, sleep has to be 'wooed'. Rest is always available.

 

If it had not gotten better for me I would never have believed it possible. This will happen for you too.

[Miami1]

Hey CW ; /Alto

Thk you. CW whats your opinion on me jumping off? Im at .9 since may 20 and befor that was at 1mg since may the 2nd.

 

My history with rem as you know has been choppy. In feb after being on it for 30 days@3.75 I stopped it. I later rienstated after being off it 13/14 days. The reason I stopped it was because of the revving after dosing. I rienstated @ 1.87mg.

I've continued to reduce not so much to reduce but because it's making me sick and revving me up. Like you said It was given for sleep but it has lost that effect sometime ago.

 

I'm thinking how much worse can it get? I wish I could jump @ a lower number but there's always a chance I might feel better without it and possibly sleep. I'm only asking your opinion, this is not a decision I've made. If I do jump and have to rienstate I'm assuming I can go back at less as I've done in the past.

 

I'm in real trouble here, I don't have much room for mistakes at this point so I'd like to weigh the options.

 

Thk you

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Jumping on and off is the same as changing the dose. Stay on, follow directions and wait to stabilize. It could take six months to a year. Maybe sooner if you stop changing the doses. You have not stayed on any dose long enough to stabilize. Support yourself in the meantime with all the good suggestions we have given you. Or, jump off and STAY OFF and hope for the best but regardless, support yourself with all of the good suggestions we have given you. Then wait to feel better. It is your choice, always has been your choice.

 

Now would be a good time for you to read your thread from the beginning to get a picture of what your situation is and what we have suggested and what you have done. I have repeatedly told you that you can survive without sleep. Many of us here have done so and are continuing to do so. We hate it, we feel sick and tired all of the time but we are still alive and for some of us, things have gotten better. Sleep has finally come. Maybe not the best sleep in the world, but we are still healing.

 

That's my 2 cents and my advice is not even worth that amount of money. Might be the best advice in the world, might be the worst. Only you can find out. Read your thread from the beginning.

[Miami1]

CW thks again. Thank you all!

I took last dose 0.9 of remeron Saturday. Monday I felt good most all day. Little to no anxiety nervousness. Last night (48hrs last dose) big time nausea and headache woke me up. Only slept a few hours last night still have heavy nausea little jittery but nothing like when on the drug. Headache is still intense. Don't know how long this will last but I will get through this.

My thought is being on such low dose the WD comes fast. Not like in feb when I stopped at 3.75 and took 9 days to hit.

 

Any advice on how to proceed from here is welcomed.

Some say 10-30 days off point are brutal I hope not.

 

Encouragement and advice from all on this board has been essential and more now than ever!

 

Thank you all!

Miami

[Miami1]

Day six off remeron. Nausea and headaches diminished on 4th day. Nice window late afternoon day 4 into day 5. Sleep has been fair to good. Today day 6 windows gone, anxiety depression agitation.

 

Can anyone tell me at what point does the WD begin to ease?

 

Thk u

[dalsaan]

Hi Miami,

 

Unfortunately nobody can answer your question.  It could be that your taper has caught up with you or that .9 was too big a point to jump off.   I'm not sure how stable you were at that point.  Your only option here is to listen to your body and make cautious decisions.  

 

D

[Miami1]

Dalsaan; you may be right. I was so sick on it and not sleeping. I feel this urge to cry but can't . It's like desperation and fear from chest area. Definitely WD . Hope I can weather it. Some say after 2-3 weeks it peaks and takes 2-3 months to start coming out.

But everyone and every scenario is unique.

 

Thks

[Petunia]

How are you doing now Miami?

 

Has the anxiety depression and agitation reduced?  Are you sleeping?

 

From what I have read, it looks like you never recovered from benzo withdrawal, added drugs didn't help and you have been through a lot of drug related changes very quickly over the last 6 months, I would expect your nervous system is destabilized and may take a while to settle down.

 

I don't know if reinstating a small amount of Remeron would make any difference at this point.  I believe that what you need is time and no more changes.

 

Are you taking any supplements?  Many people find that magnesium and fish oil help.  Have a look through the symptom and self care section for ways to manage as your nervous system slowly heals:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

Do keep us updated.

 

Petu.

[Miami1]

Hi Petu;

The last few days have been much better. The level of anxiety has significantly lowered. The nausea is much less as well as depression. It's been only ten days off remeron but so far so good, hope it lasts and inprovment continues.

 

Thk you

Miami

[Miami1]

Day 11.

Woke up with depression and it just gotten worst over the day. It's 7pm and still in heavy depression tennitus feeling like crying but can't.

Have been sleeping pretty fair the past few days .

Although I'm only 6 months off benzos I'm pretty sure I'm experiencing remeron WD .

Never really stabilizing on mirtz,I've basically been in WD for months. I am thankful I'm sleeping better but am so ready to feel human.

 

Thoughts?

[Miami1]

Day12 2:30 am

Mirtz WD was dificult the first week but since yesterday it's been unbearable. The mental anguish ,depression is horrific.

Is this a wave ? Will it ease?

I'm on the edge. I hope I can hang on.

 

Please advise, thks

[Petunia]

It sounds like you are going through the windows and waves pattern, and yes, it will pass.  Have you read the windows and waves topic?  I'm sure you have, but here it is again anyway:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

 

Are you keeping notes of your symptoms?  If not, it may be helpful to start, that way you can start to discover your own patterns.

 

You will get through this wave, just hang on, we cant push back the waves but we can learn how to ride them out.  Look through the symptoms and self care section for ways to manage.

 

Post as often as you need if you find it helps.

 

Petu.

[Miami1]

Thk u Petu:

I ended up sleeping last night maybe 5-6 hrs with the help of 12.5mg of vistiril. Today I felt much better but late this afternoon the anxiety has started ramping up again. Can't wait to put a few more weeks behind me.