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Stall: greetings


Stall

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Yes, cold turkey is a bad idea. I was just being rash because I was frustrated. Also, its hard to make a good decision when things go wrong with meds (confusion, agitation, catastrophic thinking). So far Ive began a crossover with the remaining amount of mylan I have. I have taken three doses of 3/4 mylan 1/4 other generic, which equals a day and a half. Its affecting me but its not that bad and I don't have a splitting headache. Tomorrow I will go to half and half, then I will go to %100 percent other generic when that  runs out. I appreciate the replies, hopefully my body will adjust soon.

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gee, good luck!

My medications were short-timed and low-dosed, but still affected my life a lot; all this is in 2017.

June 21 - June 28 (inpatient) - 300 mg lithium

June 6 -  July 14 (inpatient then outpatient) - 10 mg zyprexa

July 14 - July 17 (outpatient try taper) - 7.5 mg zyprexa

July 18 - July 21 (outpatient doctor changed) - 10 mg zyprexa

July 21 - July 24 (outpatient doctor said got worse) -  15 mg zyprexa

July 25 - now (quit ct with family supervision) - nothing

 

I quit ct and was successful, but there were tons of symptoms and without my family support probably impossible. My situation was fortunate, and maybe if I tapered there would be less symptoms. But I feel what worked was a will to keep going, patience, and attitude to want to get better in any situation ct or tapering.

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I think this is my second day of half and half doses of buspar (mylan and other generic). Oddly, I feel OK, the first day of half and half I had a mild headache all day long and some general confusion. Today, no headache and marked decrease in inability to concentrate. So, I think my body is adjusting. Tomorrow, I will go to 3/4 generic 1/4 mylan. Hopefully everthing will even out soon. Also, Ive been walking for 40 minutes the last three nights. Walking always helps with general health and anxiety so I figure it wont hurt now.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Stall, I just did a search for buspar and found your post and that you're also sensitive to generic brand.

 

I am also sensitive to generic brand, except in my case, I've found it's the apo brand that works.  PMS was the worst and felt as if I'd gone cold turkey.  Teva was better but still noticeable withdrawal within a few days.  If Mylan is completely gone, and if the other generic isn't completely working, I'd recommend giving the apo brand a try.

 

I've been tapering my buspar for the last year because of the sensitivity to generic brand - as you mentioned, it sucks being at the mercy of the right brand of generic being available!   I started out at 20 mg twice a day and am down more than halfway now.

 

How has the crossover gone for you? What generic are you on now?  Hope things are going better for you. 

Med free since Sept 9, 2019.

 

Past Meds: Lamictal microtaper completed Sept 9, 2019. 2.6 mg Aug 26; 113.5 mg Feb 27, 2019; 155 mg Dec 8; 185 mg July 18; 195 July 4; 205 June 18; 210 June 3; 215 May 13; 225 Apr 8; 232.5 Mar 28; 250 Feb 20; 262.5 Feb 20, 2018; 275 Nov 21, 2017; 300 mg 2000-Nov 20, 2017

Buspar microtaper completed Sept 9, 2019. 1.18 mg Aug 26; 15.38 mg Feb 27, 2019; 17.5 mg Nov 25; 20 mg July 24; 22.5 July 14; 25 June 30; 27.5 June 24; 28.75 June 3; 30 May 14; 31.25 April 19; 32.5 April 8; 33.5 Mar 28; 35 Feb 9; 37.5 Jan 16, 2018; 40 mg 2001 - Jan 2018  

Straterra 80 mg - Sept 2011 to February 2017 

Celexa 60 mg - last end date January 2013.  Various other antidepressants prior to that.

Switched from synthetic thyroid meds (synthroid/cytomel) to dessicated thyroid in February 2016.  Off thyroid meds in Dec 2019 and labs normal in Jan 2020.

Last benzo use 2009, last anti-psychotic use 2009.

Supplements:  Vitamin D, Omega 3, magnesium L-Threonate, Iodine 

Past Supplements: Melatonin 6mg d/c Oct 2017; Tryptophan 1000mg d/c Feb 2018

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Stall: greetings
  • 4 weeks later...

Delayed response... Lets see, the long and short of it is it took about a week to adjust to the different generic. I slowly introduced the new generic according to the advice given here.

 

3/4 of the old generic.              1/4 of the new generic.  ( 3-7 days ) 

1/2 of the old generic.               1/2 of the new generic.  ( 3-7 days )

1/4 of the old generic.                3/4 of the new generic. ( 3-7 days )

 

except I only had about a week to do it since I had limited supply of Mylan buspar. In the end I evened out pretty quickly. Honestly I was surprised, I thought Id suffer more than I did, but hey I not complaining :)

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Update, right now I am on 100 mg of wellbutrin sr and 50 mg of wellbutrin ir. The pharmacy is switching generics on me with that med to so I am thinking about moving to lower the IR (eventually going to zero with the IR so I don't have to worry about them changing generics). A ten percent reduction is going to be hard to gauge, I guess I am going to need a scale. But my concern is how do I approach the reduction. I will continue with the SR, so should I slowly reduce the IR to nothing? I am unsure if the 100 of SR is enough to carry me for the rest of the day. I hope that makes sense. Advice appreciated.

 

A while back I went to 100 mg of SR only and it didn't go to well, but I decreased my dose way to fast and erratically. I took the advice of "take one pill one day and skip the next day ...".

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  • 1 month later...

OK, everything has changed, but nothing has changed. My med profile is the same as it has been for the last 4 or 5 years. That's a bit depressing, but considering my life circumstances I would say to try any drastic changes in the last 5 years would not have been a good idea. So I was in a bit of a spiral depression wise, and decided to start an outpatient program. I was suuuuper depressed leading into it, and since I started I have been decreasing my caffeine intake my main sources are soda and yerba matte. I cut out the coke and started chipping away at the tea. The tea was reduced to I TBL spoon in the morning then I quit entirely. Anyway, holy sheet, headache, exhaustion and anxiety sets in right away. Also, it really should be in my signature, I have taken diphenhydramine since 2008 for sleep. Ive gone for brief periods without it, but for the most part Ive taken 25-50mg doses. I may have taken 75mg a handful of times, but realizing my body was becoming tolerant of it I would quit for a spell. Currently I am in one of those quit for a spell modes.

 

In addition, I have had a lot of stress in my life so anxiety has increased. Anyhow, I find myself with heightened anxiety now and it sucks. Honestly, I think its a combination of all three factors, ceasing coffee being the most prominent, ceasing benadryl and just plain being prone to anxiety.

 

Its strange, I have these windows where, like right now, I can see past it all, see an end in sight and other times it seems it, the anxiousness, will last forever or will overwhelm me. I don't understand that. I was talking with my assigned therapist and she seems to think in an abc fashion when it comes to my situation "look at your emergency plan" which is just a few phone numbers. I don't think I am going to DBT my way out of this and they think their one size fits all approach works for everyone, [apologies just venting]. Well, I think things are just going to suck for now and be really uncomfortable and that really sucks :) Funny I remember hearing some speaker talking about hardtimes etc. I think his term was "embrace the suck" the idea is own what is, own what you have at this time.

 

Over

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Update: So from May 11th to today, my anxiety levels have spiked pretty high, to almost unbearable. The only things I changed are I tried to quit caffeine and Ive essentially stopped taking benadryl for sleep. I reinstated the caffeine/x2 tbs a day and the headache brain fog and a little anxiety went away. However, I still have residual anxiety left and its making me crazy. I don't really think the benadryl would affect me like that although I could be wrong. It could just be a case of running into a huge patch of anxiety. Another thing that may have aggravated my anxiety is albuterol. Last month I had a hellacious cough and I had to use albuterol. Typically, I don't like using it since it makes your heart race, but I had no choice but to treat my coughing fits. In the past, albuterol has aggravated my anxiety in the form of a subsequent wave of anxiety shortly after I discontinue use. Or it could be just good ol depression mixed with the grieving process that's causing my current bout with anxiety or maybe its just the combination of them all.

 

At any rate its[anxiety] pretty damned intense so I went to my MD, I've all about given up on psychiatrists so my MD is currently prescribing for me. I had an anxiety induced visit to the urgent care and a visit to the ER for anxiety basically. My MD suggested upping my current psych med doses and that's a non starter for me since the combination never really worked well at the higher doses in the first place. She suggested I get on Zoloft and I told her how difficult it is for me to titrate. I mean it would be nice if I could just switch all my current meds for Zoloft if it were consequence free, but its not I know its not.

 

The real sticking point is this, when I am vulnerable, desperate for help and relief, and a DR is dangling a proverbial carrot in front of me to change my meds the offer is tempting, but I know the truth. And that is switching and titrating off meds is a huge effing bear that they do not understand. In the past,  I have relented and put my trust in DRs and I have been let down every time. So I told her I am not going to make a decision until I think about it. In the meantime, she at my suggestion, gave me 3 ativan. Probably not the best route, but better than cold turkey my current meds and switch to Zoloft. Thats just a train wreck waiting to happen. Please any thoughts or advice. Imma bump the thread  till I get one.

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I am in an intensive outpatient program and one of the therapists suggests I might try seroquel as a prn. My instinctual reaction is no, I need another psychmed like I need a hole in my head. I guess he suggested that since ativan isnt really a sustainable solution [addiction dangers etc]. It would be nice if I could use it for emergencies but I am still thinking no.

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Brief summary: a few weeks back I quit taking benadryl for sleep, had been taking it for years, shortly after increased anxiety. Also, tried to quit caffeine. I am not sure if any of that has to do with increased anxiety, but the fact is I have increased anxiety. Prior to that I had horrible sleep practices which my sleep pattern was essentially upside down, sleeping during normal waking hours, awake during normal sleep hours. Eating lots of fast food and caffeinated soda. My general mood was depressed and low energy.

 

Now my sleeping pattern is closer to normal, my diet is a bit better, avoiding caffeinated sodas, exercising a bit more, but damn anxiety is off the charts. It was bad enough i had my GP prescribe me three ativan and I have taken two. Also, the last couple of days I had an old script for anxiety, hydroxyzine, Ive taken that the last two days. It helps with sleep, but I am not sure if its a good idea to take it.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
1 hour ago, Stall said:

i had my GP prescribe me three ativan and I have taken two. Also, the last couple of days I had an old script for anxiety, hydroxyzine, Ive taken that the last two days. It helps with sleep, but I am not sure if its a good idea to take it.

 

I would use the hydroxyzine very sparingly.   Antihistamines can go paradoxical and produce the opposite effect. 

 

Be very careful with the Ativan. It's good you only have three.  You can become dependent within 2 weeks of use.

 

 
We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system.  Magnesium glycinate is a good form of magnesium.

 

 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.
 
Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • Moderator Emeritus
30 minutes ago, Gridley said:

would use the hydroxyzine very sparingly.   Antihistamines can go paradoxical and produce the opposite effect. 

 I would add another warning about hydroxyzine to Gridley's: hydroxyzine's effect lessens the longer you use it. I had to use it several times early on when I first crashed. It would work well the first two nights, sort of okay the third and fourth, and not at all on the fifth. I would stop taking it for a couple of weeks, try it again, and repeat the same pattern. These days, I get much better results from 1mg melatonin about 30 minutes before bedtime. I have also had very good results in lowering overall anxiety with magnesium glycinate. I have 100 mg tablets and I take 4 a day, the last one coinciding with bedtime. I generally get 6-9 hours of sleep per night, plus I am able to nap without waking up toxic. With this routine, I haven't needed hydroxyzine in 4 months. I hope this is helpful to you.

2016 - Zoloft 50 mg for klonopin w/d

Approx. Nov 2017 - successful taper of klonopin; Approx. Jan. 2018 - rapid taper Zoloft over 2 wks - no w/d symptoms; May 2018 - Reinstate 50 mg Zoloft per doctor; Aug 2018 - Rapid taper Zoloft over 3-4 weeks - no w/d symptoms for 1 mo.; Late Oct 2018 - pdoc rx'd 5mg lexapro -took for 1 wk; Early Nov 2018 - Reinstate 25 mg Zoloft; updose to 37.5 on Nov 28, 2018; Nov 30 2018 - returned to 25mg Zoloft upon mod. advice; Dec 9 - Dec10 2018 - 12.5mg zoloft liquid+12.5mg zoloft pill; Dec 11 2018 - 25mg zoloft all liquid; Feb 14 2019 - updosed to 26.25 mg liquid; Mar 6 2019 - updosed to 26.88 mg liquid - new symptoms; Mar 13 2019 - back down to 26.25 mg per mod suggestion

Dose Changes: Dec 2 2019 - 5% to 25mg; Jan 14 2020 - 10% to 22.5 (increase in sxs all month); Mar 10-15? 2020,  accidental updose to 25mg; Mar 22 2020 - back down to 22.5mg; Apr 12 2020 - 2.5% to 21.94mg; Apr 19 2020 - 2.5% to 21.375mg (symptom increase); May 17 2020 - 2.5% to 20.625mg; May 24 2020 - 2.5% to 20.1mg - Jun 14 2020 - noticed uptick in symptoms settled 2 days later - July 10 2020 - onset of wave

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  • Moderator Emeritus
18 minutes ago, Dejavu said:

 I would add another warning about hydroxyzine to Gridley's

 

Dejavu's suggestions are very good.  If you decide to start Melatonin, it's a good idea to start low, such as 0.25mg, and work up to the lowest effective dose.  Start only one supplement (Melatonin, magnesium, omega) at a time so you can monitor its effects.

 

Edited by ChessieCat
added 0 to 0.25mg

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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1 hour ago, Dejavu said:

 I would add another warning about hydroxyzine to Gridley's: hydroxyzine's effect lessens the longer you use it. I had to use it several times early on when I first crashed. It would work well the first two nights, sort of okay the third and fourth, and not at all on the fifth. I would stop taking it for a couple of weeks, try it again, and repeat the same pattern. These days, I get much better results from 1mg melatonin about 30 minutes before bedtime. I have also had very good results in lowering overall anxiety with magnesium glycinate. I have 100 mg tablets and I take 4 a day, the last one coinciding with bedtime. I generally get 6-9 hours of sleep per night, plus I am able to nap without waking up toxic. With this routine, I haven't needed hydroxyzine in 4 months. I hope this is helpful to you.

 

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

 

Dejavu's suggestions are very good.  If you decide to start Melatonin, it's a good idea to start low, such as 0.25mg, and work up to the lowest effective dose.  Start only one supplement (Melatonin, magnesium, omega) at a time so you can monitor its effects.

 

I am/was nervous about taking hydroxzine, because in the past I had a paradoxical reaction to it. However, that was in 2008 and I was on 40 to 60 mg of citalopram. But yes roger that, I dont want to become dependent and require more or have it go paradoxical and cause me more anxiety. I have been taking magnesium lately, I have melatonin and recently bought an omega 3 rich fish oil supplement. Thanks for the anxiety links too.

 

Right now my anxiety alarm is going off [flight, freeze, flight response] and I am trying to figure out why. I stopped taking benadryl for sleep after it started making my heart race just recently. I guess that could be it or just cumulative anxiety catching up w/me. I was sick for a spell and had to use albuterol, which makes your heart race. I was coughing so much I used it everyday for over a month. That could have triggered everything. Thx for the replies.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Stall,

 

I'm not familiar with Benadryl but it makes sense what you are mentioning: you were taking it for a significant amount of time (can find how long) and stopped it cold turkey. It makes sense that the anxiety that followed together with other symptoms is the result of withdrawal.

 

It seems antihistamines have a similar mechanism of action to benzodiazepines so you might want to start a thread in our benzo section  (you can just copy the post where you describe CTing benadryl  (together with other substances) and the symptoms that followed: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forum/29-benzo-tapering-and-recovery/

 

At least you know the likely cause and can practice coping skills to ride it out. 

Current: 9/2022 Xanax 0.08, Lexapro 2

2020 Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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Hello, at the suggestion of one of the moderators I am starting this topic. I have been having some issue after discontinuing. I know this the benzo section, and diphenhydramine is not even in the same ballpark so bear with me. May 12 or maybe a couple days before I stopped taking it. I had been taking it for sleep since 2008. I used 25-50 mg a night and occasionally 75 mg. So I am near certain its the cause of my recent issues, which are: headache, and persistent anxiety. I have anxiety disorder Ive lived with it for 20+ years. However, this bout is different and more alarming than the general anxiety i normally have. I really not sure what I can do other than wait it out, it seems like its going to last forever. In the end diphenhydramine was not helping me sleep and was actually increasing my anxiety, causing rapid heartbeat.

 

 what I ve done to try to manage it, got a prescription for ativan, only three pills and no refills, taken it twice. Occasionally Ive used hydroxyzine not for sleep but to manage the anxiety, used it about 3 times. I am also considering using cbd as an anti anxiety agent. Also, Ive been walking a lot, around 3 miles a day. If anyone has a similar experience and helpful suggestions while be appreciated. Also, had difficulty with and titrated off multiple psych med [info in sig], I am not currently cutting anything else.

 

Cheers

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  • Moderator Emeritus

@Stall Hi, Stall. I moved your last post from the benzo forum to your main intro thread.  I'd like to get more feedback from the antidepressant moderators due to the number of potential drug interactions in your cocktail. I think that's where some of your anxiety is coming from. Since you only have one Ativan left out of the three you were prescribed, the benzo issue is not as important. Let's please discuss these interactions. 

 

You have two MAJOR and three MODERATE drug interactions in your drug cocktail. Please see: 

 

Drug Interaction Report - Celexa, Buspar, Wellbutrin, diphenhydramine

 

Wellbutrin and Celexa have a major interaction and Buspar and Celexa also have a major interaction. Your Celexa does is relatively low now, so hopefully any interaction is mild  to nonexistent at this point. 

 

Diphenhydramine and Celexa have a moderate interaction and diphenhydramine and Buspar have a moderate interaction. It doesn't surprise me that your recent stint on albuterol caused more acute symptoms, as it also creates another moderate interaction (I added it to the list here - Drug interaction report - including albuterol). 

 

I know you're off diphenhydramine now, but you may need to reinstate a small amount and taper off later, but let's get more information first. 

 

I don't think  you have an "anxiety disorder". You have twenty years worth of being on drugs with major interactions that can cause severe anxiety. Please take some time to do some research for your own health and well being. 

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal. It's possible that some adjustments to the timing of your drugs may help with the drug interactions and bring you some relief, but we need to see your symptoms in the context of when you take your drugs. As you post this over the coming days, we can help you with the timing and possibly a reinstatement of the diphenhydramine, since you had been on it for over 10 years prior to May 12. 

 

Also, please update your signature to reflect your recent albuterol use, as well as the years you were on diphenhydramine and the date you stopped. Your signature is here:

 

Account - Setting - Create or Edit Your Signature

 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

n the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 
6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Shep said:

@Stall Hi, Stall. I moved your last post from the benzo forum to your main intro thread.  I'd like to get more feedback from the antidepressant moderators due to the number of potential drug interactions in your cocktail. I think that's where some of your anxiety is coming from. Since you only have one Ativan left out of the three you were prescribed, the benzo issue is not as important. Let's please discuss these interactions. 

 

You have two MAJOR and three MODERATE drug interactions in your drug cocktail. Please see: 

 

Drug Interaction Report - Celexa, Buspar, Wellbutrin, diphenhydramine

 

Wellbutrin and Celexa have a major interaction and Buspar and Celexa also have a major interaction. Your Celexa does is relatively low now, so hopefully any interaction is mild  to nonexistent at this point. 

 

Diphenhydramine and Celexa have a moderate interaction and diphenhydramine and Buspar have a moderate interaction. It doesn't surprise me that your recent stint on albuterol caused more acute symptoms, as it also creates another moderate interaction (I added it to the list here - Drug interaction report - including albuterol). 

 

I know you're off diphenhydramine now, but you may need to reinstate a small amount and taper off later, but let's get more information first. 

 

I don't think  you have an "anxiety disorder". You have twenty years worth of being on drugs with major interactions that can cause severe anxiety. Please take some time to do some research for your own health and well being. 

 

Please start a drug and symptoms journal. It's possible that some adjustments to the timing of your drugs may help with the drug interactions and bring you some relief, but we need to see your symptoms in the context of when you take your drugs. As you post this over the coming days, we can help you with the timing and possibly a reinstatement of the diphenhydramine, since you had been on it for over 10 years prior to May 12. 

 

Also, please update your signature to reflect your recent albuterol use, as well as the years you were on diphenhydramine and the date you stopped. Your signature is here:

 

Account - Setting - Create or Edit Your Signature

@ Shep

I am aware of the major and moderate interactions: I called my pharmacist and asked him about them before I took the hydroxyzine he didn't have any issues with it. I am not sure if I checked the albuterol, but that is used as needed and I haven't taken it for weeks and when I did it was for a month.

 

"I don't think  you have an "anxiety disorder". " I am not sure how/why you draw that conclusion, but I know my diagnosis and anxiety preceded my psychiatric drug use.

"Please take some time to do some research for your own health and well being." I have done plenty of research and I am knowledgeable about my condition. I don't know why you assume I am not. Curious assumption to say the least.

 

"Please start a drug and symptoms journal."

I am not sure if you want me to do that here or on my own. Ill do it here and if its not appropriate I can edit it out.

"Also, please update your signature"

Done.

5 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

 

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On 5/24/2019 at 3:45 PM, Stall said:

Hello, at the suggestion of one of the moderators I am starting this topic. I have been having some issue after discontinuing. I know this the benzo section, and diphenhydramine is not even in the same ballpark so bear with me. May 12 or maybe a couple days before I stopped taking it. I had been taking it for sleep since 2008. I used 25-50 mg a night and occasionally 75 mg. So I am near certain its the cause of my recent issues, which are: headache, and persistent anxiety. I have anxiety disorder Ive lived with it for 20+ years. However, this bout is different and more alarming than the general anxiety i normally have. I really not sure what I can do other than wait it out, it seems like its going to last forever. In the end diphenhydramine was not helping me sleep and was actually increasing my anxiety, causing rapid heartbeat.

 

 what I ve done to try to manage it, got a prescription for ativan, only three pills and no refills, taken it twice. Occasionally Ive used hydroxyzine not for sleep but to manage the anxiety, used it about 3 times. I am also considering using cbd as an anti anxiety agent. Also, Ive been walking a lot, around 3 miles a day. If anyone has a similar experience and helpful suggestions while be appreciated. Also, had difficulty with and titrated off multiple psych med [info in sig], I am not currently cutting anything else.

 

Cheers

 

That sounds like a paradoxical reaction to diphenhydramine, which is not unusual.

 

It seems odd that dropping diphenhydramine, which has such a short half-life, would unmask these anxiety symptoms.

 

Did anything else happen in early May? Skipping a dose accidentally, change in drug manufacturer, taking an antibiotic?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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The salient thing that happened in April/May is I had a horrendous bronchial virus. I did take amoxicillin which is usually agreeable with me. The cough lasted for a month and I would be seriously out of breath due to constant coughing hence the albuterol. My MD prescribed me singulair, I don't think I took it for more than a week and I am not sure of the exact dates, because I stopped taking it after I saw the depression/suicide warnings on the bottle. Also, I took a corticosteroid for 6 days in late April [methylPrednisolone] Also from experience, prolonged use of albuterol usually ends up with me having a major anxiety event, not necc. a panic attack. I used the albuterol only because the benefits/immediate breathing relief outweighed my concerns about anxiety. Not on the medication front, but notable is April is the anniversary of a sudden death in the family one year ago.

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5/24

9 am Woke up with headache & anxiety
10 am 3.2 mg celexa 100 mg wellbutrin sr 20 mg buspar
10:30 breakfast
11 am anxiety increasing headache still there
2pm 1 hour hike anxiety and headache
4pm at home and highly irritable anxious
5pm take hydroxyzine and nap
anxious can feel heart beating but did not check rate
noticeable relief being in the dark and probably effects of hyroxyzine

5:30 20mg buspar 50 mg wellbutrin IR
6pm nap done anxious but OK
10pm watching inspirational shorts on youtube
11pm anxiety noticibly decreased, but still there.Playing Skyrim with volume way down a little sensitive to sound.
1am sleep

 

* Addendum: The headache I have isn't really a throbbing headache it feels more like dull pressure. The point is its not unduly awful.

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Has anyone ever done somatic experiencing, I had a therapist that was trained in it and on occasions like this, phantom prolonged anxiety or even anxiety post med change, sometimes it would snap me out of the anxiety. I no longer see her, but I can still schedule an appt with her. I would be the so strange I would have heightened anxiety going to the appt. then we would do what I would call mindfulness type exercises [body scanning, tracking bodily sensations, and orienting to the environment mostly sight] and upon leaving I would notice the anxiety was gone. It was the oddest thing.

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11 hours ago, Stall said:

"I don't think  you have an "anxiety disorder". " I am not sure how/why you draw that conclusion, but I know my diagnosis and anxiety preceded my psychiatric drug use.

"Please take some time to do some research for your own health and well being." I have done plenty of research and I am knowledgeable about my condition. I don't know why you assume I am not. Curious assumption to say the least.

 

An "anxiety disorder" falls under the concept of "chemical imbalance".  This is the disease model of so-called "mental illness" and has been discredited. Human pain exists. Trauma exists. Nutritional deficiencies exist (such as low vitamin D and B12). Grief exists. But anxiety and depression as a "disorder" have never been proven and the fact that psychiatry has driven this theory for so long, it has kept many people from getting the treatment for the root cause of their suffering. And instead, psychiatry simply markets drugs that numb us to our pain. We live in a very fast-paced society with a toxic consumer culture, and most of us are struggling just to keep up. That's not a disease of the individual, but a sign that our culture could use improving. 

 

Please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

Before the use of these drugs, the outcomes were better. These kinds of symptoms were self-limiting in nature and would pass. The drugs made them chronic. For more:

 

History We Can’t Overlook Anymore: Details Before the Anti-Depressant Era

 

There's been scientific research that explains how the drugs take a temporary state of human distress and turn it chronic:

 

Now Antidepressant-Induced Chronic Depression Has a Name: Tardive Dysphoria

 

Anxiety and depression as "disorders" have been differentiated in some part, due to the pharmaceutical campaigns for various drugs. For instance, some SSRIs such as Paxil were marketed to sell "social anxiety" as a disease, even though Paxil is an antidepressant. 

 

Have you read Robert Whitaker's work? This book explores a lot of these issues and provides the scientific research to back up his thesis: 

 

Anatomy of an Epidemic

 

A short book trailer video:

 

Robert Whitaker, author Anatomy of an Epidemic video (11 minutes)
 

 

10 hours ago, Stall said:

9 am Woke up with headache & anxiety
10 am 3.2 mg celexa 100 mg wellbutrin sr 20 mg buspar
10:30 breakfast
11 am anxiety increasing headache still there

 

10 hours ago, Stall said:

5:30 20mg buspar 50 mg wellbutrin IR
6pm nap done anxious but OK
10pm watching inspirational shorts on youtube
11pm anxiety noticibly decreased, but still there.

 

Do you feel more anxious after taking your morning and afternoon drugs? 

 

If so, you may want to space the Buspar two hours away from the other drugs. Some of the anxiety may be coming from the interaction and a two hour space between may help with that. The gentlest way to do this is by moving the Buspar one hour a day. So in two days you'll have it moved. 

 

9 hours ago, Stall said:

Has anyone ever done somatic experiencing, I had a therapist that was trained in it and on occasions like this, phantom prolonged anxiety or even anxiety post med change, sometimes it would snap me out of the anxiety. I no longer see her, but I can still schedule an appt with her. I would be the so strange I would have heightened anxiety going to the appt. then we would do what I would call mindfulness type exercises [body scanning, tracking bodily sensations, and orienting to the environment mostly sight] and upon leaving I would notice the anxiety was gone. It was the oddest thing.

 

Mindfulness exercises like body scanning are some of the best ways to deal with anxiety. Scroll down in this thread and you'll find a number of links for meditation and mindfulness: 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn is a regular go-to for people going through withdrawal, especially his body scan: 

 

Jon Kabat Zinn Body Scan Meditation GUIDED MEDITATION video (45 minutes)

 

And breathing exercises are also very helpful: 

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

If you have a therapist you like who teaches these skills, that can be very helpful. 

 

 

11 hours ago, Stall said:

I am not sure if you want me to do that here or on my own. Ill do it here and if its not appropriate I can edit it out.

 

Yes, right here in your thread is perfect. Please continue to post your journal, especially if you decide to space out the Buspar.

 

Please let us know how you're doing over the coming days. 

 

 

 

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5/25
9 am woke up at intentionally in bed till 11 am
11:30 medication:see above doses
anxious and head pressure but manageable, eat
11:40 yerba matte tea one tablespoon
2pm anxious saw people I am resentful towards
3pm home sounds are irritating tv etc.
5pm slight overwhelm niece and nephew over 4 and 5 years old
small interaction but OK
7pm anxious not overwhelming head pressure irritable
2nd dose of medication: see above for doses
7:30pm found an SE exercise on youtube, got some relief
8:30 Window of relief able to play with niece and nephew

9pm gratuitous amount of cookies and cream ice cream

10pm to 3:30 on pc not able to sleep and headache irritable, anxiety

11pm more ice cream
3:40 took 250mg chelated magnesium and 6mg of melantonin... sleep

*noticeable: did not exercise and took a total of 500 mg of magnesium


 
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On 5/25/2019 at 5:26 PM, Altostrata said:

 

That sounds like a paradoxical reaction to diphenhydramine, which is not unusual.

 

It seems odd that dropping diphenhydramine, which has such a short half-life, would unmask these anxiety symptoms.

 

Did anything else happen in early May? Skipping a dose accidentally, change in drug manufacturer, taking an antibiotic?

Around Feb 7th the pharmacy changed the buspar manufacturer, but that's around three months ago. It took around a week to adjust, but I felt quite normal afterwards.

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13 hours ago, Shep said:

 

An "anxiety disorder" falls under the concept of "chemical imbalance".  This is the disease model of so-called "mental illness" and has been discredited. Human pain exists. Trauma exists. Nutritional deficiencies exist (such as low vitamin D and B12). Grief exists. But anxiety and depression as a "disorder" have never been proven and the fact that psychiatry has driven this theory for so long, it has kept many people from getting the treatment for the root cause of their suffering. And instead, psychiatry simply markets drugs that numb us to our pain. We live in a very fast-paced society with a toxic consumer culture, and most of us are struggling just to keep up. That's not a disease of the individual, but a sign that our culture could use improving. 

 

Please see:

 

Again, chemical imbalance is a myth. Stop the lies, please.

 

Before the use of these drugs, the outcomes were better. These kinds of symptoms were self-limiting in nature and would pass. The drugs made them chronic. For more:

 

History We Can’t Overlook Anymore: Details Before the Anti-Depressant Era

 

There's been scientific research that explains how the drugs take a temporary state of human distress and turn it chronic:

 

Now Antidepressant-Induced Chronic Depression Has a Name: Tardive Dysphoria

 

Anxiety and depression as "disorders" have been differentiated in some part, due to the pharmaceutical campaigns for various drugs. For instance, some SSRIs such as Paxil were marketed to sell "social anxiety" as a disease, even though Paxil is an antidepressant. 

 

Have you read Robert Whitaker's work? This book explores a lot of these issues and provides the scientific research to back up his thesis: 

 

Anatomy of an Epidemic

 

A short book trailer video:

 

Robert Whitaker, author Anatomy of an Epidemic video (11 minutes)
 

 

 

 

Do you feel more anxious after taking your morning and afternoon drugs? 

 

If so, you may want to space the Buspar two hours away from the other drugs. Some of the anxiety may be coming from the interaction and a two hour space between may help with that. The gentlest way to do this is by moving the Buspar one hour a day. So in two days you'll have it moved. 

 

 

Mindfulness exercises like body scanning are some of the best ways to deal with anxiety. Scroll down in this thread and you'll find a number of links for meditation and mindfulness: 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn is a regular go-to for people going through withdrawal, especially his body scan: 

 

Jon Kabat Zinn Body Scan Meditation GUIDED MEDITATION video (45 minutes)

 

And breathing exercises are also very helpful: 

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn video (4 minutes)

 

If you have a therapist you like who teaches these skills, that can be very helpful. 

 

 

 

Yes, right here in your thread is perfect. Please continue to post your journal, especially if you decide to space out the Buspar.

 

Please let us know how you're doing over the coming days. 

 

I think the issue is I am using the term "anxiety disorder" loosely. I understand your taking it as the psychiatric definition that supports the use of ssris etc. What I a mean is I have an abundance of anxiety that is at times debilitating , I have had trauma, I have had and still have panic, I am gravely affected by these things. This is my experience.

 

Also, my thoughts on psych meds are this: they are over prescribed and in most cases completely unnecessary. In fact I rue the day I decided to trust the doctor that prescribed me paxil. My knowledge come from books and articles  such as: The Anti Depressant Solution, Joseph Glenmullen, MD, the Anxiety Phobia Workbook, Edmund Bourne, Phd, The Feeling Good Handbook, David Burns, Anti Depressant Withdrawal Syndrome, Christopher Lane Ph.d. Depression its not your serotonin, Kelly Brogan, MD. In an Unspoken Voice, Peter Levine Ph.d. Plus one of the links you mentioned. So I am versed in whats going on with me. I appreciate the links to the articles I have not read.

 

*side note: I wish I could figure out how to use quotes on this forum so I don't have to put the whole post in quotes!

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1 hour ago, Stall said:

*side note: I wish I could figure out how to use quotes on this forum so I don't have to put the whole post in quotes!

 

You highlight the part of a response which you want to quote and once it is selected wait a little bit and Quote Selection will appear.  Click on that.

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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On 5/26/2019 at 2:31 PM, Stall said:

then we would do what I would call mindfulness type exercises [body scanning, tracking bodily sensations, and orienting to the environment mostly sight] and upon leaving I would notice the anxiety was gone.

 

Mindfulness and relaxation exercises can be very effective for reducing anxiety and calming the nervous system. 

See:  Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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9 hours ago, Stall said:

should I reinstate? its been two weeks and this really sucks

 

I'm assuming you mean the diphenhydramine? If so, since you were last on it 15 days ago, you may want to add it back in.

 

I'm not sure what dose to recommend, as it looks like you were using varying doses. If you can, try to find a dose that gives you some relief and than take it constantly every day. This is easiest on your nervous system.

 

Please let us know how you do. 

 

 

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I tried the diphenhydramine, 25mg bad idea, i thought it would just even me out, but it just made me more anxious. Before I took it I was tired an yawing, after words I was energized and kinda hyper.So at least I know I cant go in that direction.

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5/26

1am up slight anxiety noticably less head pressure
1:20pm meds[see above for dosage] and food
2pm 1tbspoon of yerba matte tea
2:50pm feel reasonably well
4:30pm anxiety kicks in plus headache
5pm go for walk 1 hour 10 mins
6:30 anxious but managable
in fact its no so much the headache and feelings of fear are overwhelming

its the thoughts and what ifs that are associated with them that work me up
"what if this last forever" etc.
7 pm take Allegra for allergies
7:20pm SE body scan exercise
8:pm increasing anxiety while driving
8:20 pm eat Linner
8:30pm medications last dose of day
Take Lecithin and Fish Oil supplements
8:37 anxiety slowly decreases
9:40 anxiety uptick
12pm frustrated decide to take 25mg benadryl
1230pm not a good idea, feel effects of headache leaving but more anxiety
4pm cant sleep anxious blood pressure is high 150/100 70
take lorazepam 1mg
sleep

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So last night when I decided to go to the local pharmacy and get some diphenhydramine I noticed something. Upon making the decision and having the hope of some relief. I became calmer on the ride to the store. This tells me that my anxiety is driven by my thoughts, i.e. "at last I can get some relief" and my anxiety settles noticeably. The Claire Weekes lecture [someone posted on this thread] says something about that but its more geared toward social phobia. i.e. anxious in a roomful of people, but when she leaves the room there is a sense of relief.

 

My crux is this I have had heightened anxiety for years, like I said prior to any psychiatric drug use. It was debilitating and at one point I was so close to being agoraphobic.

 

So when changing meds or really anything that gives me discomfort the feelings are multiplied and it makes it extremely difficult to navigate. Case in point, recently I changed buspar manufacturers. While I did experience some discomfort. My mind was telling me, "this is horrible, what if your like this forever etc". But the discomfort abated in a week and I was able to suffer through it without losing it. It was really kind of a win for me. How much more difficult it is when I actually lower a dose of say the citalopram, wellbutrin or buspar or like now when I cease a med I have taken for 10 years.

 

I have the sneaking suspicion that while distressing, the headache, irritability are not really overwhelming. Its when my mind makes them into mountains is when there overwhelming. The headache I have isn't so distressing the thoughts of it lasting forever are. And that's where the cbt skills, se skills, mindfulness skills come into play. But its haaaard to learn that stuff and it takes a lot of practice.

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@Stall

 

You've got it, Stall. Hard-won knowledge.  Congratulations.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of June 28: 5mg

Taper is 93% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotic, zinc, melatonin .3mg, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase, L-Glutamine


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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3 hours ago, Stall said:

4pm cant sleep anxious blood pressure is high 150/100 70
take lorazepam 1mg
sleep

 

I'm not seeing lorazepam in your signature - how often are you taking that?

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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