ccb73: My story with the psychiatric cycle

[Altostrata]

ccb, I've moved your posts to your Intro topic. We need the context that's in this topic to answer your question.

 

What happened to Cymbalta, etc.? When did you start Viibryd? How have you been tapering it?

 

What exactly are the symptoms that are troubling you? When did they start?

[ccb73]

I started Viibryd withdrawal approx 6 months ago. I'm 50% off the 20mg and tapered 12.5% 1/8 dose, holding for a month.

 

Many times I held longer so I can recover. The last 12.5% (2.5mg) of the 20mg was hell and I didn't recover well enough despite holding for 6 weeks!

 

My holistic psychiatrist told me to stop cutting Viibryd (leaving it at 10mg) and start cutting 10% Cymbalta. I told him I can't do it yet because I didn't recover. He told me to weigh the problem of staying on these drugs so long vs starting 10% withdrawal despite recovery...

 

I listened to him and removed pellets 10% of 30mg and after a few days, I experienced the worst careless, lethargy, apathy you can imagine.

 

I'm in pajamas all day for three days straight and cannot motivate myself.

 

The drugs itself dulls your pleasure points and the withdrawal is knocking me down a slippery slope.

 

I went back to the 30mg Cymbalta after about 15 days of hell yesterday with minor relief.

 

My mood is so flat like they thought the earth was...

 

Actually when I up dosed back to 30, I'm having sweats and anxiety creeping in. You can't win. It's the withdrawal AND the drug.

 

Any thoughts?

[scallywag]

I'm sorry that you're dealing with the negative effects of following your doctor's advice.

 

Your holistic psychiatrist isn't very holistic; he's paying attention to one thing, getting off the medications, not your overall wellness during the process.  What good is getting of the medications according to his schedule if you experience uncomfortable, possibly distressing symptoms that affect your functioning in life.  Arghhh, doctors.
 
As you decrease your dose of the medication, the load decreases on the organs (liver and/or kidney) that metabolize the drug.  Remind your doc of Paracelsus, a 16th century philosopher and physician, who is quoted as saying, "The dose makes the poison." The lower the dose, the lower the negative effect of the medication.
 
I hope that you'll wait to stabilize after your latest dose decreases.  The next time you decrease Cymbalta you could try a decrease less than 10%, 8% or 5 % something like that.

[ccb73]

Alto,

 

Agreed. Problem is that the lower the dose the harder the withdrawal...

 

Using this concept, makes it almost impossible to withdraw or complete in 10 years. So maybe doctor is making a point about length time on drug?

 

Using Paracelsus is kinda funny because thr lower the dose, the lower the negative effects doesn't mean withdrawal dose. It means drug in body dose.

 

I do get the idea but when it's soooooo many years and even small withdrawal hurts, maybe I need to get off consistently and use therapies to assist? Maybe Fisher Wallace device, milk thistle for liver?

 

Alto, it's very hard but remember according to most opinions its best to get off the accelerators before the breaks snd I got seroquel and 2.5mg klonopin waiting to be taken off...

 

Klonopin in particular, especially combined with seroquel creates it's own apathetic state!

 

Aren't we in the dark??? Maybe I should stop Cymbalta cutting and cut the breaks, since I'm only on 30mg Cymbalta and on 10mg Viibtyd.

 

What do you or anyone think?

[ccb73]

Hi,

 

I'm holding my dose now on all psych meds but I'm not feeling better.

 

The apathy, depression is horrible and I'm in a quite bad mood state.

 

I found that the real worsening of symptoms happened after tapering my Viibryd from 20mg to 10mg over 6 months, doing 12.5% cuts. The last two were the worst...

 

Since I ended the taper about 2 months ago, does it make sense to reinstate back up 12.5%?

 

Any other ideas? I'm not functioning and in bed most of the day.

 

Thanks

[scallywag]

Instead of updosing/reinstating to your previous/last dose, test an intermediate dose: ¼ or ½ of your last dose. You may respond sufficiently to that because your CNS (central nervous system) has made changes adjusting to the drug's absence since your last dose. 
 
Remember that it takes 5-6 days for Viibryd (half-life 25 hours) to reach steady-state. You then need to allow another 7 days after that for your CNS to respond to the change. Be sure to be consistent as to when you take the reinstated dose.

Your symptoms will be your best guide to the next step. Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:
Take notes of doses and symptoms

[ccb73]

Scally,

 

I already updosed yesterday to previous dose... Should I continue or try the 1/4 or 1/4?

 

I'm concerned about messing around with updose.

 

Please assist.

[scallywag]

If I were in your situation, i.e. taken a full updose for one day, I would take the halfway dose today and for 10-14 more days while carefully keeping notes about my symptoms.

[ccb73]

Hi,

 

I was having horrible withdrawal and now slowly recovering amidst tapering.

 

I'm tapering 2% for every of my 3 meds, Cymbalta, Viibryd, and Seroquel, totaling 6%.

 

I actually went back up on Seroquel after a horrible wd anxiety/akathesia episode; it was deathly horrible.

 

As you can see in my signature, I'm not successful with withdrawal lately and suffering a lot with ups and downs and the heat level is debilitating to me.

 

I think I'd quit doing accross board tapering, against advice of Ann Blake Tracy and try just 2% off cymbalta!

 

I'm really considering TMS as I've heard many success and it's covered by my insurance. At this point, if it help, why should I continue suffering when I can do something non medication and non ECT?

 

Please advise.

 

Thanks.

[Zeldazonk]

Hi ccb73,

 

This sounds really hard and familiar. I've spent 14 months tapering off Cymbalta (with Prozac switch for the last 6 months) and I feel worse than ever - or at least ever during my withdrawal. I thought I might be starting to feel better now, having gone through hell throughout the tapering. I'm trying to figure out if I need to make a time limit on observing myself & taking no drugs (I'm still on Lithium though) because I'm so unwell and it's affecting my family so badly. I just am very, horribly depressed. 

 

I have severe chronic fatigue so I haven't read your whole story...Were you feeling bad i.e. mood / anxiety wise before you started tapering??

 

I've just completed a course of TMS here in Australia. For me all it did was made me horribly wired / hypomanic. That's it. But, people do have success with it so it could be worth a try.

 

All the best, Zel.

[ccb73]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm doing quite well under the circumstances in withdrawal.

 

I am tapering Viibryd along with 3 others psych drugs.

 

Question: With Yom Kippur coming, should I ask my doctor if I should double dose on the Viibryd?

 

Issue: Viibryd is reported to be absorbed only 50% if taken on empty stomach! Stupid Drug...

 

The Yom Kippur fast us a 26 hour no eat nor drink; I do get my meds down via saliva (excuse me, of course).

 

Does it make sense to take double dose for just one day so I won't feel withdrawal that hard?

 

Thanks.

[apace41]

6 hours ago, ccb73 said:

Issue: Viibryd is reported to be absorbed only 50% if taken on empty stomach! Stupid Drug...

 

The Yom Kippur fast us a 26 hour no eat nor drink; I do get my meds down via saliva (excuse me, of course).

 

 

CCB,

 

As a fellow MOB (member of the tribe) I would submit to you that there is an exception to fasting for heath-related matters and would suggest that you consider that gives you the basis to not fast on the holiday.  I know how hard that can be for those of us who feel strongly and want to fast, but there is no way to predict how your body will react to a "double dose" of Viibryd.  I would not recommend that regardless of its absorption.  

 

We make lots of accommodations in life to deal with our withdrawal process.  I would strongly suggest that you consider this to be one of yours.

 

At the end of the day it is of course your decision to make.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

[ccb73]

HI Guys.

 

Don't have the best update. In August of 2017 I suddenly aquired w/d based akathesia and hysteria. I also took some OTC stuff like MMJ, Reserpine, and Kratom due to the horrific w/d symptoms I was having. It was a worng thing to do but instead of stopping/holding, I just looked for alternatives that were dangerous.

 

At the time, my ND MD was not being helpful at all and so wasn't my psychoanalyst. I felt at breaking point and the Apathy, Lack of Desire, Depression, Anxiety, Restlessness, Fear of maddness, etc, was SO hugh, I just was becoming suicidal.

 

I actually phoned my ND MD and the office was trying to get me calm (The a*hole doctor NEVER came to the phone) but to no avail. After a while, I started feeling really suicidal and called 911 to take me to Mt' Sinai in NYC.  Bad choice but I felt my life is over

 

Of course, once there I was medicated as you can see in my signature and even given a round of ECT (will put in sig).

 

I was released after a FULL month and felt better just to flip into a strong Apathetic adohenic state.  I can lay in bed for hours, days, and care about nobody or anything.  I took a cortisol saliva test and Urine Neurotransmitter (NT) test, which showed my morning very low, early after noon, ok, later afternoon, very high, at night, even higher. Based on th NT testing it showed ALL my NT at the low levels.

 

Interesting, being on SSRI SNRI serotonin should be elevated or at least normal. I guess it depletes the stores.

 

After long story, I'm working with Natropath and did a 93 food sensitivity test, showing COrn, GLuten, Milk, Almonds, Eggs being a problem.  I also take Magnesium threonate, Seriphos (for cortisol), theanine/gaba combo, liposonal C capsule, VItamin D 5000, and Tryptophan 500mg at night. She tols me Tryptophan OK since my NT was low (33 vs 50 normal range).

 

I find that my lethargy and adohenia is so bad that I still have difficulty getting out of bed or doing anything. It is so hard to even help myself. I find that all things I enjoyed are now bland.

 

I also cannot taper now because I'm not ready and my mind is fuc*ed up do to med changes.

 

Any help is appreciated. I feel like I'll stay like this forever. My kids need me, I need me, the world needs me. I'm not working at all. I'm doing CBT therapy but my motivation is so low that I'm not following and even missing appointments.

 

Please anybody????

[Kristine]

Hey CCB,  I am so terribly sorry to read of your horrific experiences.  I haven't read your whole thread but I will when I'm able.  Just wanted you to know that I have endured very similar experiences to you...I literally feel your pain, just wanted you to know you are not alone. K 🌻

[ccb73]

Thanks Kristine. Can anyone move my article to a place of more responses or is this the right place? I feel so funky and NOBODY outside of this suffering understands me. Even my dear mother and father. They tell me to fork along with the help I get and follow.

 

I always was proactive about my health and following both physical and psychological help. Now, it's like I had a stroke. God help me!!!

 

 My therapist made an appointment with me last week that HE will come to my house Monday as I'll stand ready at 10AM and we'll go somewhere to chat and discuss CBT help.

 

In the morning when I awoke in a funk, I just let the poor therapist waiting outside until my father let him in the house. He then basically was calling for me to come with him. I did after all but whatever we discussed and the initiative behavioral activation I committed to went out the window.  He almost wants to give up on me. It was SOOO embarrassing and I felt very uncaring.

 

He doesn't get it that my emotions, feelings, desires, caring are blunted. Yet, my depression, crying, sadness, anxiety are NOT blunted.

 

Anyone?????

[samanthaelizabeth]

On 11/16/2015 at 2:11 PM, ccb73 said:

Well, basically doing 10% of remaining dose on just Cymbalta...

 

There is no help on this really and I'm not gettig any people identifying with the employment aspect.

I understand about the employment aspect.  Ever since I switched to Wellbutrin and then abruptly went off of it (right back to Zoloft) I haven't been able to keep a job due to extreme anxiety.  I am trying to stabilize back on my regular dose while looking for a job.  

[Rabe]

I finally found the thread..I'm so sorry about all you are going through ccb73.  I was tapered rapidly from part of CLonazepam and then tried on my own to taper some of the Viibryd and I too felt as though I was not only going crazy but physically so unstable.  VERY intolerant to heat and cold with electrolytes, potassium, that kept dropping.  I came here and it was suggested my Alto and brfssmonkey that I hold and stabilize...so since December I have had not more attempts to taper and have just been trying to eat and rest and hold my doses...though we all want the meds to be gone yesterday!  I am slooooowly feeling a bit better and I am so grateful.  I have taken nothing else...no supplements, no diet changes, just holding the tapers.  I don't know if that would help you or not but just wanted to pass on that it has seemed to finally seemed to make a slight difference for me and I am grateful!  I, too, worry about being on the Viibryd, in particular, longer but after being where I was am trying hard to let that go and just try to get my body and mind better.  Saw my psychiatrist today who wants me to start compounded Clonazepam capsules to stabilize my dose as I cut the 1mg tablets to get my .25 and .75 doses and the are never the same I'm sure.  But I'm even concerned about making THAT change at this point as I am finally feeling some stability!  If anyone has any thoughts on that change I would appreciate it.  Take care cab....I would encourage listening to your body and mind and let the dust settle for a bit before doing anything further...and I would not do the TMS.  I have heard people who did that and ended up in a worse spot...it too has its effects, especially for those of us so very sensitive to everything.  There is no quick fix...though the temptation is there!  

Blessings!!!

[Rabe]

Just now, Rabe said:

Sorry everyone...forgive my typos and spell check that I don't recheck!  Sorry brassmonkey and alto!!

 

[Rabe]

CCB, how are you tapering the Viibryd?

[ccb73]

Rabe, Unfortunately as I said in mt update, I'm NOT tapering anymore. I'm feeling horrible on the meds I've been put back on and am back to Viibryd 20mg among others... When I did do the viibryd taper, I would weigh the tablet and reduce % of weight.

 

I feel so low and unmotivated that it's not funny.

[Rabe]

Hi ccb73....I just was wondering if you have been doing any better?  I can only say that the Viibryd sure seems blunt my feelings...from the get go...was manic then nothing.  I hope you are doing some better!?