success Hibari: tapering Remeron and want to start tapering Lamictal

[Hibari]

 

Thank you @Altostrata

 

I have not just stopped the Trazadone  entirely. Just skipped a few nights.  So missing maybe 4 nights out of 30. 

 

I don't feel great but its hard to tell if it's only the setback or a combination of that and Trazadone withdrawal. 

 

With the information I've given regarding the Trazadone, any additional thoughts? 

 

The Remeron is helping a bit with sleep, though at this point in the setback I'm sleeping every other night. 

 

Setback symtoms: Agoraphobia, inomina, inner trembling, depression, anxiety, sensitivity to light and sound, grief. 

 

[Altostrata]

You're taking trazodone regularly again? What times o'clock do you take each of your drugs, with their dosages?

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

I had been though not regularly since last week when I made the switch to Remeron. 

 

Dosages 

Mirtazapine 

Oct 6-12th

8pm 7.5

 

Trazadone

Sept 7-Oct 5

9PM

75-100mgs

Started Remeron 

Final dose Trazdone 

Oct 10

10PM 25mgs 

 

I would like to taper  the Trazadone despite being told it could be a straight cross-over to Remeron because I feel like I am in withdrawal from it since Monday. Since I am already in a setback, I can't handle a cold turkey withdrawal from it.

 

Thank you. 

[Altostrata]

You've haven't been on trazodone long. You might take 1mg and see if that helps.

 

Please condense the tapering history in your signature and add your new drugs.

[Hibari]

14 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You've haven't been on trazodone long. You might take 1mg and see if that helps.

 

Please condense the tapering history in your signature and add your new drugs.

Ok thanks @Altostrata

Just to clarify, I take 1 mg daily as opposed to a one time dose?

 

Also, whether its from the Trazadone wearing off or just that my body can't tolerate medication,

the Remeron/Mirtazapine has not worked for the past two nights. No sleep. I will give it a couple more nights but may have to stop that as well. Currently taking 7.5mgd. 

 

Will update my signature as soon as I can 

 

[Altostrata]

On 10/14/2022 at 5:36 AM, Hibari said:

Just to clarify, I take 1 mg daily as opposed to a one time dose?

 

Correct.

 

On 10/14/2022 at 5:36 AM, Hibari said:

Also, whether its from the Trazadone wearing off or just that my body can't tolerate medication,

the Remeron/Mirtazapine has not worked for the past two nights. No sleep. I will give it a couple more nights but may have to stop that as well. Currently taking 7.5mgd. 

 

You may a drug change only 5 DAYS AGO. It's too early to draw any conclusions from this.

[Hibari]

Okay thanks. 

 

10/16/22 Update:4 nights without sleep so far using Remeon. Stopped working completely. 

[Hibari]

Hi @Altostrata

 

On day 6 of 1mg of Trazadone and defiantly feeling withdrawal.  

 

Symptoms: Insomnia, trembling, aches and chills. 

 

The Remeron is not working for sleep and I think its can't cover the withdrawal symptoms of the Trazadone yet. 

 

Any thoughts in either riding it out or making any adjustments to what I am already doing? 

 

Thank you. 

[Hibari]

10/19/2022 Update 

Was able to make it though a day of withdrawal and then got some sleep after 6 nights of not sleeping. 

 

So staying with the 1mg of Trazadone for now.  

[Altostrata]

How long have you been taking 7.5mg mirtazapine? Please put approximate dates you started your drugs in your signature.

 

It appears you had trazodone withdrawal, and it settled out with the 1mg.

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

 

Been taking the 7.5 Mirtazapine for 16 days. I didn't sleep for 5 nights in a row during that time.  I think the rebound insomnia and withdrawal from Trazadone was in the mix. 

 

Finally slept on Tuesday night and then then no sleep again Wednesday evening. 

 

Back to experiencing more Trazadone withdrawal today. Chills, achy muscles, blurry vision, trembling, agitation. 

[Altostrata]

When do you want to stop mirtazapine?

 

Might you have an illness, maybe related to your surgery?

 

Why do you think these symptoms are from trazodone withdrawal?

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

 

I wanted to stop Mirtazapine because it wasn't helping for sleep and of course it feels like a failure to me to be back on meds after being med free. 

 

I have to let that  go of that as I've been so deeply physically and mentally affected by this setbac. I needed some kind of support that went beyond what I was trying to get from natural things. 

 

No, its not an illness in that sense. I had a lunpectomy so there's no ongoing illness post surgery. 

 

I feel it was Trazadone withdrawal because of the symptoms I mentioned. I wasn't having chills, muscle aches or blurry vision before I stopped the Trazadone.  

 

I don't have those symptoms today so maybe the withdrawal is easing up again   I've had intense depression but I've had different levels of that since the setback started after not having it since the end of my benzo taper. 

 

How long do I keep taking the 1mg of Trazadone?

 

Also, I've has a few nights where I've only needed 3.75 of the Mirtazapine for sleep. I always take my medication in halves to see where my nervous is at. 

 

 Do you feel it will be a problem if the amount I need fluctuates between 3.75 and 7.5? 

 

Thank you Alto. 

 

[Mimi79]

Hi Hibari,

I just realized what you've been throught in the last months. I am so sorry, I hope you're starting to feel a bit better.

I had a coloscopy in july, with sedation. I refused the Versed, but I took the fentanyl, thinking I would be ok. It caused me the worst wave ever!

We are so sensitive, it is a bad joke...

In august, I had a surgery. I refused all med this time, only local anesthetic. They thought I was crazy. It was difficult, because at the end I was feeling almost all, the anaesthetic was wearing off. But I didn't have any setback after the surgery, so it was worth it.

I am thinking of you.

Have a nice week-end.

Marie

[Hibari]

Thank you Mimi 

 

Unfortunately, I am not better. Still in this benzo setback and not seeing any improvements.. its been close to 3 months. 

 

Both sleep medications ive tried haven't really worked and I'm really struggling mentally and physically. 

 

I thought I had advocated for myself in regards to surgery but it was not enough. 

 

I'm glad you are ok. 

 

Hibari. 

[Mimi79]

Hi dear @Hibari

I am sending you my warmest thoughts! 
I really hope you will feel better soon. You have been through this, so you know how we can travel from dark to light sometime quite fast. It takes sometime just one day to make the difference. What a difference a day make, as says the song…

In time, your CNS will calm itself. We have to trust the process, even if it is easier said than done.

 

2 hours ago, Hibari said:

I thought I had advocated for myself in regards to surgery but it was not enough. 

I understand what you mean. In July, the day of my colonoscopy, the nurse was pushing me to take the full sedation. I refused the Versed, but he convinced me to take the fentanyl, as it is not a benzo. Bad mistake, I am pretty sure it was the culprit of the awful wave that followed. And I realized later, because I didn't take the Versed, they gave me (without my consent) the double dose of Fentanyl, to compensate. They gave me 100micrograms instead of 50. Surely it didn’t help.

 

I supposed you’ve had a general anesthesia, so it is difficult to control what they are doing with us, as we are asleep. And general anesthesia in itself is something pretty hard on the CNS. I remember last year when my father had is cardiac bypass, during few weeks after the surgery, he was not feeling like himself. He had some trouble with memory, concentration, even with the control of his sphincter. And he is not in W/D!
 

Anyway, I Hope all will improve shortly for you. I am sending you good vibes…

 

Have a nice day!

 

Marie

[Hibari]

Thank you Mimi. I'm quite discouraged and appreciate your words..

 

I hope things can shift.  They haven't so far and that makes me sad and afraid. 

 

I had anesthesia but it also has some other things in it that really affected me. I feel very far from my goal of healing.  Every day is a struggle right now. Benzo setbacks to happen more often that not but mine seems to be dragging out. 

 

Thank you again for your support. It means a lot at this time. 

[Altostrata]

On 10/21/2022 at 2:49 PM, Hibari said:

 

Also, I've has a few nights where I've only needed 3.75 of the Mirtazapine for sleep.

 

Mirtazapine is now working for sleep???

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

 

Th Mirtazapine is working inconsistently for sleep. I don't sleep every night. Every other night or sometimes two nights.

 

It seems the 3.75 works best but sometimes I need a little more. Was concerned about varying the dose. 

[Hibari]

7 hours ago, Hibari said:

@Altostrata

 

Th Mirtazapine is working inconsistently for sleep. I don't sleep every night. Every other night or sometimes two nights.

 

It seems the 3.75 works best but sometimes I need a little more. Was concerned about varying the dose. 

PS How long to stay on the 1mg of Trazadone?

[Altostrata]

How do you know it's the mirtazapine vs trazodone? Your sleep has improved since you started 1mg trazodone again, correct?

[Hibari]

 

 

26 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

How do you know it's the mirtazapine vs trazodone? Your sleep has improved since you started 1mg trazodone again, correct?

@Altostrata

 

I'm tracking it and its just getting back to the every other night. 

 

I don't take the Mirtazapine and Trazadone together as they have conflicted in the past.

 

I will keep tracking my sleep and keep q log. 

 

I want to eventually just be on only 1 sleep med till the setback heals. Then stabilize and then taper the Mirtazapine. 

 

As I said, 3.75 seeks to work best. If I can keep it there, that would make me feel more optimistic about tapering it in the future. 

 

 

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

 

A final question for now.

 

When I take 7.5 of Remeon at once, it can make me hyper. I find that if I take it in stages, my nervous system handles it better. So usually I take 3.75 and then another 3.75. There has have been a few nights where I've fallen asleep just taking 3.75 or 5.50mgs 

 

My question is, is it okay to take it in divided doses or should I just aim for taking a lower dose overall?

I've been on Remeron 20 days.

 

Thank you. 

[Hibari]

No sleep for two nights in Remeon.

 

Not sure what to do now regarding this med.  Doesn't seem too be working for sleep for me.

.

[Altostrata]

On 10/23/2022 at 2:05 PM, Hibari said:

I don't take the Mirtazapine and Trazadone together as they have conflicted in the past.

 

Are you taking each of this drugs occasionally? Do you take either of them every day?

 

I am sorry, I cannot follow your inconsistent dosing. You seem to be experimenting with the mirtazapine dosing. I don't think I can be of any help here.

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

 

I'm sorry for the confusion.

 

I take both medications daily. 

7.5mgs of Remeron 

1mg of Trazadone. 

 

I take the Remeron, 7.5 in two stages about 1 hour apart as my nervous system seems to handle it better. 

 

I appreciatee help you have given me so far. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Look back in your topic. Did you see improvement after you added 1mg trazodone?

 

What times o'clock do you take each of your drugs, with their dosages?

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

 

Remeron 

3.75 8pm

3.75 9-9:30PM 

Trazadone 

1 mg 7:30 am 

 

I rolled the Trazadone dose to the daytime because it is activating ti me at this point. When I took it at any timeafter taking the Remeron, I would be wide awake all night. 

 

I did look at my log and once I moved the Trazadone to the daytime and got through the initial withdrawal, I went back to every other night of sleeping. 

Before that I hadn't slept in 5 nights. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Very irregular to take trazodone in the daytime. How do you feel before and after you take it in the morning?

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

 

I know. 

 

When I take it in the daytime, it makes me feel alert. This is how I felt taking  at night after the Remeron. It never helped my sleep at night when I took it with the Remeron. I thought having in system no matter what would keep the withdrawal at bay and it seems to have done so. 

[Altostrata]

When was the last time you made a change in your daily drug schedule?

[Hibari]

30 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

When was the last time you made a change in your daily drug schedule?

@Altostrata

 

The last time I made change was when moved the 1 mg of Trazadone to the daytime on Thursday, Oct 13th. 

[Hibari]

44 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

@Altostrata

 

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by Hibari
Repeated response

[Shep]

@Hibari Just so all bases are covered, you've got Armour Thyroid listed in your signature. When was the last time you had your thyroid checked? 

[Hibari]

15 hours ago, Shep said:

@Hibari Just so all bases are covered, you've got Armour Thyroid listed in your signature. When was the last time you had your thyroid checked? 

Hi @Shep

 

My thyroid was checked in June. I met with my primary care doctor yesterday and she reviewed it. Said it was normal. 

 

From my perspective, I'm in a benzo setback due to the components used in the anesthesia.  Experiencing many of the same symptoms I had in benzo withdrawal only more intense due to the nervous system injury. 

 

I also am in Trazadone withdrawal, which I was on for a little less than a month.  Trying to stabilize on 1mg though it often makes me a little hyper. 

 

My sleep has been bad due to all the above and the Remeron has not yet worked consistently for me. So when I don't sleep, I feel pretty sick. 

 

My plan is to continue with the Remeon and Trazadone plan. I'm hoping that as the Trazadone withdrawal ends, my sleep will improve.

 

Anyway, thank you for checking in on the thyroid issue. 

[Hibari]

@Altostrata

 

You've been very helpful through this process.

 

I read through the reinstatement thread and saw that if the small amount of medication used for reinstatement causes alerting or restlessness that this means the nervous system may be too sensitived to accept the reinstatement. 

 

I feel that may be happening for me and it makes sense since the anesthesia and prior benzo withdrawal have made me quite  sensitive.  I feel jittery and alerted after I take it the 1 mg of Trazadon, whether I took it night or day.  

 

I've been taking the 1 mg for 2 weeks. My sleep is still inconsistent even with the 7.5 of  Remeron, which I plan on continuing to give it more time. 

 

Question: Do you think I should continue with 1 mg of Trazadone longer or since I'm experiencing the alerting, stop the 1 mg? 

 

I appreciate your time Alto.