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Bokart: withdrawing from Olanzapine

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Bokart

To share some of my experiences today:

 

So I went to my family's place, having a good week so far. No fear, feeling really inspired to learn about things. I began to saw people's behavior as a collection of their accumulated learning so far in their life. It's a blessing to see others in this way as you can see the faults without condemning them and admirable traits without being enthralled by them. However my mother's place is different than my own quiet apartment when it comes to peace of mind...

 

My uncle and my mother (who live in a same house) hold totally different world-views, and they argue with each other to no end. So today was once more time for it... and I held. What could I do? I can't reverse what they have learned and when you're debating you're rarely listening but you're building offense & defense... But there was something that broke my neutrality.

 

I commented on something. Something really small, got a lot of refutes, and my neutrality began to crumble and feelings began to take hold.

 

Anger/irritation makes you as blind as fear it seems, and taking part (I'd call it "investing in") a debate holds no positive outcomes (at least with people who show no signs of actually exchanging knowledge rather than using it as a weapon). But at least I learned, and hopefully the right things!

 

Nothing new medical-wise, taper going as planned. Seeing a doctor in September, we're going to discuss my tapering schedule. About nights: sometimes I fall asleep quick, sometimes my thoughts wander (like last night). I wonder if wandering thoughts are a sign you're trying to go to sleep too early?

 

I also have studying a lot my own ideas about sexuality and sex, and it has been very fruitful. This is one of the things that can take too large portion of your thinking, which, too, is a result of learning....

 

Hoping you had an excellent day today :)

Bokart

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Bokart

Hit 1,0 mg today :) Yes, it's a 11,5% drop but things have gone so well :) A few hitches in July, but they were solved by changing the way I react to certain things (and limiting exposure to other things).

 

Don't know about future plans, seeing a doctor soon. Thinking of doing 0,1 mg drops instead of 10% , but not sure if I will. Depends on when my trips abroad happen & how I feel. I could try it 3 months and see how I feel.

 

In other news, now I can make 5 doses of olanzapine from 1 tablet! Now I don't need to buy any more olanzapine I think! (except maybe 1 package).

 

Hoping you all see the sun today :)

Bokart

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Plshelp

Bokart, 

You seem to be doing so well as you're decreasing! You're so very lucky to have motivation back, your thoughts and your sleep under control! (I don't have any thoughts in my head and most of the time I'm scared to go things b/c of it). 

 

Since you've been making larger drops are you still going to continue with the 10% decrease? Or are you going to jump off sooner? 

 

I wish I was as lucky as you. You seem to have minimal damage from the antipsychotics and are recuperating quite fast! 

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Bokart
8 hours ago, Plshelp said:

Bokart, 

You seem to be doing so well as you're decreasing! You're so very lucky to have motivation back, your thoughts and your sleep under control! (I don't have any thoughts in my head and most of the time I'm scared to go things b/c of it). 

 

Since you've been making larger drops are you still going to continue with the 10% decrease? Or are you going to jump off sooner? 

 

I wish I was as lucky as you. You seem to have minimal damage from the antipsychotics and are recuperating quite fast! 

 

Thank you for the kind words. My journey hasn't been easy, but fortunately I haven't had the same withdrawal symptoms I had in 2015 when I tried to rapidly decrease my dose (nausea, crying spells, anxiety, insomnia, stomach problems).

 

But for example my sleeping problem... was actually there the whole time I have been on this med. Yes the med forced me to sleep, but that problem never went away. I was anxious at bed. Well, one summer it just healed... as I began to not worry about my sleep that much. Of course there's been problem with sleep due to withdrawal (longer time to fall asleep), but that kinda has a solution too, so it's not 100% withdrawal symptom. I just have to go to sleep when I'm actually tired (& and my mind is calm) & I fall asleep within an hour (most often)! I have also noticed I require way less sleep now compared to my time before meds: 7 hours now instead of 8 before.... I wonder why that is? Anyways I have to adjust my sleeping time due to that fact.

 

And yea, thoughts... I remember not having them. I tried to go to school in that time, it failed miserably. I couldn't learn, I couldn't socialize well. This just needs... accepting. Nothing you can do, except to slowly taper. No need to worry about things you can't change. There'll be other opportunities in the future, I'm sure :) I have had another opportunities and am doing great in my current studies at the moment :) When your dose is lower, I'm sure this symptom will go away.

 

But when the thoughts return, it can be quite overwhelming... I had involuntary thoughts in november 2016, almost the whole month. It was terrible, but I tried to not care... and one morning they were gone and never returned. And imagination... when it starts running, you really need tools to divert it, if it has a habit of causing you unpleasant emotions. Guiding your attention to some pleasant activity often helps. I have also noticed denying the emotion is not good for me, it then gets stuck in my head for some time, so if your imagination causes emotions, it's perfectly fine, just acknowledge the emotion and move on :)

 

One example: my gambling problem. This week I found a different solution. So I couldn't resist gambling a bit this tuesday, lost 40€... well my emotions were of that of a obsession (hard to describe, gamblers know this) and once more I was thinking of moving all my money to my mother's bank account to prevent more losses. But then I came to the conclusion that this does not actually help because as I get more money in my bank account they're often 99% gone if I did this. Somehow not trusting myself contributed to my gambling addiction... Well, I decided that this time I will trust myself, that's it's understandable that I gambled, it's understandable that I have this obsessed feeling, but I will trust myself this time. And I haven't gambled any more this week. Haven't felt "the need" to gamble. Hoping this is closer to a permanent solution to my gambling problem :)

 

About jumping sooner, no, I don't think so. But I do think I might change my taper to 0.x mg (x is not know yet) a month/3 weeks instead of 10% every 3 weeks. But we'll see.

 

Also, my hunger seems to be gone this week! :) Already lost over a kilo of weight this week. 30 more to go....

 

Wishing you best of success to your taper!

Bokart

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Plshelp
9 hours ago, Bokart said:

And yea, thoughts... I remember not having them. I tried to go to school in that time, it failed miserably. I couldn't learn, I couldn't socialize well. This just needs... accepting. Nothing you can do, except to slowly taper. No need to worry about things you can't change. There'll be other opportunities in the future, I'm sure :) I have had another opportunities and am doing great in my current studies at the moment :) When your dose is lower, I'm sure this symptom will go away.

 

But when the thoughts return, it can be quite overwhelming... I had involuntary thoughts in november 2016, almost the whole month. It was terrible, but I tried to not care... and one morning they were gone and never returned. And imagination... when it starts running, you really need tools to divert it, if it has a habit of causing you unpleasant emotions. Guiding your attention to some pleasant activity often helps. I have also noticed denying the emotion is not good for me, it then gets stuck in my head for some time, so if your imagination causes emotions, it's perfectly fine, just acknowledge the emotion and move on :)

 

One example: my gambling problem. This week I found a different solution. So I couldn't resist gambling a bit this tuesday, lost 40€... well my emotions were of that of a obsession (hard to describe, gamblers know this) and once more I was thinking of moving all my money to my mother's bank account to prevent more losses. But then I came to the conclusion that this does not actually help because as I get more money in my bank account they're often 99% gone if I did this. Somehow not trusting myself contributed to my gambling addiction... Well, I decided that this time I will trust myself, that's it's understandable that I gambled, it's understandable that I have this obsessed feeling, but I will trust myself this time. And I haven't gambled any more this week. Haven't felt "the need" to gamble. Hoping this is closer to a permanent solution to my gambling problem :)

 

Also, my hunger seems to be gone this week! :) Already lost over a kilo of weight this week. 30 more to go....

Bokart. 

Do you still have thoughts in your head? You mentioned they went away, then returned, then went away? Could you please clarify this for me? Thx. B/c I'm trying to find hope in my thoughts maybe returning. And my imagination is gone. I don't have any creativity in my head at all. It sucks. 

 

I don't have any thoughts in my head and I've been off the medication for 6 weeks now. I feel scared all the time and don't know what to do with myself most of the time. I sit around like a vegetable. 

 

I've heard that these antipsychotics can cause gambling habits. So it's good to hear that you're trying to control that. 

 

Great to hear about the decrease in hunger and weight loss. I don't have any hunger, fullness, thirst, or sensations to go to the bathroom. It's quite scary. I haven't lost any weight, but I haven't really gained any either. 

 

When do you anticipate being completely off your medication? 

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Bokart
Quote

Do you still have thoughts in your head?

 

Yes, if you mean regular 'logical' thoughts.

Yes, if you mean imagination.

No, if you mean intrusive thoughts.

 

This slowly went better all the time... The journey between 5,5mg and 1,94 definitely saw some improvements in this regard. This took ~10 months. Imagination really returned this spring/summer and I have had to deal with it (as you can probably see from some of my posts). But I guess Imagination was there earlier than that, but not present so strongly.

 

My logical mind was already present when below 5 mg, and it only went better from there. Now it's completely returned :)

 

Doctors always said that since I'm a large (tall) person my body needs larger amount of medicine to have the same effect as some smaller people have. So maybe 5mg had already smaller effect to me than to you (that is if you're smaller than me). I don't know whether this is true.

 

Quote

I don't have any thoughts in my head and I've been off the medication for 6 weeks now. I feel scared all the time and don't know what to do with myself most of the time. I sit around like a vegetable. 

 

Well, considering it's only 6 weeks & you did cold turkey, it's understandable that you feel scared (I did too when I tried fast taper) & the effects of olanzapine haven't still gone away. Give it a year and you'll see some improvements - for some they might appear faster! This is a great time for introspection & and I really recommend to just let the worries go off for a while, maybe partaking in some small thing helps? Just don't strain yourself too much... My summer 2016 went playing computer games and it was great for me at the time. It was then when I began to worry less about my sleep, and that mindset has since then expanded :) Take it easy and continue from there :)

 

Quote

When do you anticipate being completely off your medication? 

 

I don't actually know. I don't have a fixed date :)

 

Wishing you best of recovery,

Bokart

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KarenB

Thanks for your updates Bokart, even though they don't always get a reply we do appreciate knowing how people are doing. 

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Bokart

Thank you for your words, KarenB :)

 

I actually had a really tough weekend last weekend, because I unknowingly witnessed a very serious fight between my father and his new wife.

 

So I have long since the new wife of my father's is a very controlling, cold & calculating personality, but I didn't realize everything until this weekend. My father had said something that really upset her, and I found her crying on the floor.

 

Well, my father came, and they had some debate... but what really stood out was when my father said "You think that it's because I'm a sh*tty person is the reason I don't have any friends", to which she replied with a weepy voice "But you are", still crying.

 

This... how can someone say that? How can someone say that while crying on the floor? I get so many messages from those two words alone, said in a situation like that... It changes the whole scene to something completely different.


After that - after my father said they might be better divorced - she got the most furious fit I've ever witnessed and started throwing things and slammed the door, and sped away with her car.

 

Now she's back (she came back to the house & now they sleep in different rooms), and she's doing something now, taking the child (my half-brother) to the swimming facility the whole day when we already had plans to go boating with my father & take him with us. Today she sent a friend request to me in facebook. So I know she is a cold and calculating personality, I'm worried something is transpiring here.

 

I know my father has some bad traits, but if she really tries to make him believe he really is a sh*tty person, I'm worried she might succeed. And he's not a sh*tty person, he's an introvert. Introverts don't have many friends, if any.

 

I just want to help my father. I've never raised my voice about their relationship, I've never judged it, but now I think my father needs an outside view. This has happened many times and my father has always come back... taking the blame, apologizing. This is codependence, and it hurts me to see it. He has to see what is happening... Is she really trying to make him feel guilty about all the problems in their relationship? And now she tries to make him believe he's "a sh*tty person". It cannot end well.

 

I foresee she will take the child with her too, and do everything she can to succeed, if it comes to it. She already had a divorce in a previous relationship & took the child away from the father. And that father was a very soft and loving personality, judging by the talks of the child and the few times I've met him (and the child always wants to be with him... or at least away from home, which has not been received well by the mother). Unfortunately my father isn't very good in raising a child, but at least he spontaneously shows love and affection, which she never does. She doesn't show emotions, except anger and snide remarks. Not once, and I've even lived in that household & visit there regularly.

 

But the child issue is not as important as the mental health of my father.

 

Thank you for reading,

Bokart

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Bokart

I have decided to suggest my father that he and she would go to some family counsel/therapy. But I will not push, just present my view & the solutions I see. Neutral view is what they need & family therapy would be best for that. I'm just concerned that my father's wife will not go there out of pride, but I can't help that.

 

I will talk to my friend tomorrow too about this. Of course the first thing my father needs is company, he is very lonely right now. Maybe he has felt that way for a longer time, because he has talked about his lacked of friends some time before. Next weekend I'm going there.

 

Wish you all the best,

Bokart

 

EDIT: and oh, it's been rough emotionally this week, but I got better after I posted my earlier post. It really helps just to text or talk your problem, let it out of your system :) This is where a good friend can help too. 

 

My sexuality has also been my focus. My body feels so sexually active, I really want to find healthy ways to control it. Well, "control" might be a poor word, but maybe "direct" is better. I'm starting to see the patterns, but I'll see if I'm on the right track yet. It's funny that in my inner life I also try to search for easy solutions, but often that does not work at all. The consequences are often immediately apparent when it comes to inner life, so just trying and hoping is not good at all. But this feedback can also be very valuable, if you can see the cause. I'm not that experienced yet though.

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Bokart

So yesterday...

 

Some time in yesterday I began to feel this "low-grade alert-mode" again. It's kind of feeling between fear and anxiety. It prevented me from accessing my neutral state. It was also the only emotion I had, no other emotions could be felt. It was exactly like this:

On 11/28/2016 at 9:02 PM, Bokart said:

[...]

But what's new is that I seem to have this strange feeling of "uneasy energy", or "low grade alert-mode", it's hard to name, but what really triggered me to post is that it started being more pronounced last weekend. I don't feel bad actually, just alert and more prone to fear, and if I have fear-reaction it is stronger than it ought to be. It's very close to being anxiety... at times it almost feels like it... but I don't know.

[...]

 

It was very strong this time. It took a long time to fall asleep. I woke up at 4 am. Then a thought occured: might this be a post-traumatic stress reaction?

 

So I went and searched for more information and the symptoms fit. Yes, it is definitely a post-traumatic reaction.

 

I remembered I had this before, and remembered posting about it here. Then I started to think... What traumas do I have?

 

I remembered a time...

 

It was before psychosis. I was in a cult of sorts. My mental health was very bad while I was part of that (deteriorated all the time while I was there), it was at this point that even the slightest thing could set my anxiety off.


So one day I wrote a forum post in the cult's forum. It was a post I presented my view, and my experiences that support it. And then some other person writes a forum post, scolding me of some mistake he found in my post & quoted their scripture in sections he found relevant. It's a little bit fuzzy after that, but I remember changing the wording of my post & thanking the poster. Then I realized what error he really meant and I subsequently deleted my post.

 

(The error he meant was actually a result of my personality, but they taught at the cult that people should present them differently while communicating. It was a part of their teaching. Seeing the error was actually in the "why" I presented my post, it caused some problems in it's own)

 

This was met with even a furious response from him quoting the whole post I had deleted just moments earlier (he had it stored while it was up) and wrote a very long and personal post criticizing me and judging me by the personal information I had given them while being here. I had mentioned I was at the university at some point in my life, and he mocked my personal faculty and he wondered how could I be so stupid even though I had been to university. He continued from there making heavy criticism of my character.

 

This really set me off the rails.

 

I was anxious to find a solution, I didn't want to insult anyone, I thought at a time he took something I did as insulting & it triggered his response. So I tried to send him a private message... but he had already put me in his black list, so I could not send him a message.

 

Situation unresolved, I slowly began to have psychotic symptoms.

 

It took a month before I was openly psychotic and admitted to care.

 

---

 

I no longer have the post-traumatic reaction, but I have the trauma to process. I'm happy I've found the original trauma. Now I can process. I'm fortunate my friend comes to visit me today.

 

Bokart

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powerback
4 hours ago, Bokart said:

So yesterday...

 

Some time in yesterday I began to feel this "low-grade alert-mode" again. It's kind of feeling between fear and anxiety. It prevented me from accessing my neutral state. It was also the only emotion I had, no other emotions could be felt. It was exactly like this:

 

It was very strong this time. It took a long time to fall asleep. I woke up at 4 am. Then a thought occured: might this be a post-traumatic stress reaction?

 

So I went and searched for more information and the symptoms fit. Yes, it is definitely a post-traumatic reaction.

 

I remembered I had this before, and remembered posting about it here. Then I started to think... What traumas do I have?

 

I remembered a time...

 

It was before psychosis. I was in a cult of sorts. My mental health was very bad while I was part of that (deteriorated all the time while I was there), it was at this point that even the slightest thing could set my anxiety off.


So one day I wrote a forum post in the cult's forum. It was a post I presented my view, and my experiences that support it. And then some other person writes a forum post, scolding me of some mistake he found in my post & quoted their scripture in sections he found relevant. It's a little bit fuzzy after that, but I remember changing the wording of my post & thanking the poster. Then I realized what error he really meant and I subsequently deleted my post.

 

(The error he meant was actually a result of my personality, but they taught at the cult that people should present them differently while communicating. It was a part of their teaching. Seeing the error was actually in the "why" I presented my post, it caused some problems in it's own)

 

This was met with even a furious response from him quoting the whole post I had deleted just moments earlier (he had it stored while it was up) and wrote a very long and personal post criticizing me and judging me by the personal information I had given them while being here. I had mentioned I was at the university at some point in my life, and he mocked my personal faculty and he wondered how could I be so stupid even though I had been to university. He continued from there making heavy criticism of my character.

 

This really set me off the rails.

 

I was anxious to find a solution, I didn't want to insult anyone, I thought at a time he took something I did as insulting & it triggered his response. So I tried to send him a private message... but he had already put me in his black list, so I could not send him a message.

 

Situation unresolved, I slowly began to have psychotic symptoms.

 

It took a month before I was openly psychotic and admitted to care.

 

---

 

I no longer have the post-traumatic reaction, but I have the trauma to process. I'm happy I've found the original trauma. Now I can process. I'm fortunate my friend comes to visit me today.

 

Bokart

Hi bokart ,I find your post very interesting ,to me this person seemed to get a serious cathartic release judging you like this ,I find this kind of behaviour extremely pernicious ,good on you for resolving your own thought process .to me these kind of people are very dangerous.

Are they a narcissist floating around getting there fix or do they carry a very strong pain body inside them that needs to get fed and feed off people .

Eckhart tolle talks about the pain body and the Ego and there a dangerous mix .

I myself growing up would take any kind of criticism to heart and it would sit with me a long time and withdrawl is throwing up all kinds of horrible situations with people that I just have to ignore and hope its the withrawl [I'm sure it is WD].

Hope you well

PB

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Bokart
4 minutes ago, powerback said:

Hi bokart ,I find your post very interesting ,to me this person seemed to get a serious cathartic release judging you like this ,I find this kind of behaviour extremely pernicious ,good on you for resolving your own thought process .to me these kind of people are very dangerous.

Are they a narcissist floating around getting there fix or do they carry a very strong pain body inside them that needs to get fed and feed off people .

Eckhart tolle talks about the pain body and the Ego and there a dangerous mix .

I myself growing up would take any kind of criticism to heart and it would sit with me a long time and withdrawl is throwing up all kinds of horrible situations with people that I just have to ignore and hope its the withrawl [I'm sure it is WD].

Hope you well

PB

Thanks for posting :) Yeah, I don't know what kind of person he is, and I don't want to analyze that. Now I generally try to avoid unsafe people, but that is a lesson learned. Important thing is I unveiled this trauma today. I'm very sensitive today, and decided not to go to school so I can just be with myself. Hopefully the trauma is gone now :) I don't feel half-bad right now, just very sensitive. I have to avoid negative environments today... but I'm going to my dad's, and there's no guarantee it will be nice there. They are suffering as well, but my dad needs a friend, someone to talk to. I don't even need to do much more than that. Maybe if it's bad I will go there tomorrow instead of today...

 

I myself growing up would take any kind of criticism to heart and it would sit with me a long time and withdrawl is throwing up all kinds of horrible situations with people that I just have to ignore and hope its the withrawl [I'm sure it is WD].

 

Do you mean memories? Or imagination? I'm sorry for you either way :( Often withdrawal releases many suppressed things, sometimes many at once. I'm fortunate they've come piece by piece for me. I too was a sensitive child, and I'm still very sensitive.

 

Best of recovery to you!

Bokart

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powerback
8 minutes ago, Bokart said:

Thanks for posting :) Yeah, I don't know what kind of person he is, and I don't want to analyze that. Now I generally try to avoid unsafe people, but that is a lesson learned. Important thing is I unveiled this trauma today. I'm very sensitive today, and decided not to go to school so I can just be with myself. Hopefully the trauma is gone now :) I don't feel half-bad right now, just very sensitive. I have to avoid negative environments today... but I'm going to my dad's, and there's no guarantee it will be nice there. They are suffering as well, but my dad needs a friend, someone to talk to. I don't even need to do much more than that. Maybe if it's bad I will go there tomorrow instead of today...

 

 

 

 

Do you mean memories? Or imagination? I'm sorry for you either way :( Often withdrawal releases many suppressed things, sometimes many at once. I'm fortunate they've come piece by piece for me. I too was a sensitive child, and I'm still very sensitive.

 

Best of recovery to you!

Bokart

Hi bokart ,by the looks of it ,its the neuro emotions and paranoia because of withdrawl ,these meds were truly a disaster ever touching them .[I've worked out that my kind of physiology and these drugs  mix are not compatible .

There is a mix of memories also but I shouldn't pay much attention to them in withdrawl ,should of done this 2 years ago and not pay attention to thoughts . 

Good for you knowing to pull back today and look after yourself .

Take care .

PB

 

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Bokart

Yeah, paranoia can happen. I had that, and still have a little, mainly at sleeping times when it has been a stressful day. Some have gone away with time, some are my "own". Hard to tell which is which currently. I also had involuntary thoughts at some point. Fortunately gone :)

 

Bokart

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Bokart

Had a very fruitful discussion with my close friend today :) Just support is often enough, and I don't feel vulnerable anymore :)

 

However as I was talking about healing from my trauma, he also opened up to me and told he had his own trauma to deal with. Apparently in his foster home his foster-dad had been very hard on the children, including him.

 

So we talked and I tried to open up the issue from several angles. Finally I realized where the problem is: he was afraid to admit he was hurt, because to him it felt like betraying his affection he felt when the foster-dad died earlier this year.

 

I said to him: He did you wrong. He did wrong. There is no less or more to it. He did wrong. He did you wrong.

 

It sinked.

 

I asked him if he wants a glass of water, he said he also has to go to the bathroom. While I was talking to my roommate, I hear my friend sneezing in the bathroom.

 

I hope he can process it now :) It's rough, but have to cry the cry you weren't able to release as a child.

 

He has a very loving wife and he has all the support he needs, I hope this turns out a success. I will check up on him soon.

 

Bokart

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Bokart

There's more trauma coming up for me, it seems. Had a really good cry triggered by a song just now, and I don't know why. Trauma can be without words, too.

 

Woke up in 3 am, was anxious and I had forgot to eat so my stomach was hurting. I ate & decided to start journalling my experiences again, like I did when I was in the cult (the cult trauma is gone (maybe gone) now so I can do this). Nothing resolved that night but I managed to get back to sleep after 5 am and slept ~4 hours after that, so I got enough sleep.

 

I am also worried about my friend. I don't know if he know hows to release trauma, that is with crying (usually, can be with other emotions too I think). So he must allow himself to cry, or else the trauma will remain. There can be other traumas that prevent crying itself, so this can be a long process. I hope he can talk to his wife or me about this. His wife is not that experienced with these things,  but often it's enough when one listens and is there supporting. I will call him today.

 

I feel good again after the cry I had, but there might be more coming. It was a consequential week this week. Let's see how the weekend goes.

 

Bokart

 

EDIT: I also have to avoid situations that were associated with the trauma so the trauma can go away peacefully. Time heals....

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Bokart

Something I learned... I'm more sensitive around people today. I inspected this and it seems I feel guilty of feeling that people are unsafe for me. It's ok, I have to allow myself to feel them as unsafe. Nothing wrong in that.

 

I find today I should not keep my mind preoccupied by day-to-day stuff. My mind wants peace. I was lying in bed, doing nothing, thinking very little, listening to the sound of the wind... it was peace. Trying to do something is met with an uneasy feeling.

 

I will take it slow today, and just be.

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Bokart

I'm at my father's place this weekend (where the fight happened last weekend) and it seems they have made up their disagreement. Some signs point that all the (or any?) problems are not solved howerer, but I decided not to offer my opinion at the time. Maybe I should, but I won't.

 

I called my friend yesterday and his condition is unchanged, he still experiences "fight between feelings" inside his head. I did it wrong. I was not of help. Or I did bring some trauma ready to be released, but another trauma is preventing that from happening. If there's any trauma/learned attitude in one's way in handling certain emotions & releasing trauma requires one to feel such emotions, it certainly isn't possible to release the trauma before releasing the other trauma first.

 

I have to change my approach. Last time I focused on being the thinker, an analyzer. That is not a good idea (why did I not understand it then?) Next time I will be a guide of sorts, asking only questions. He will have to come to conclusions himself. That's the way it should be... But the question is, which question I should ask? I should review what is essential in releasing trauma based on my own experience. I remember learning to cry long time ago, it was so liberating. But what did have to learn before I was able to learn to cry? It goes way back...

 

So asking questions that will lead to the right direction. And that is the right direction for HIM. So I have to learn more about him too.

 

Also, some after-stress reaction is occuring for me right now, I wake up in a middle of the night, completely delusional. It takes some minutes for me to understand where I am & what is reality and after that I calm down and go back to sleep. I have one delusional idea and I try to confirm it by observing my surroundings. That's when I understand where I am, and the delusion is gone. It's like I woke up with a certain part of my mind still shut down, hence delusions. I have learned this kind of thing happens to me after major stressful events, like last weekend, so there's probably some trauma behind this, or I am just very sensitive to emotionally stressful situations (which can also be result of trauma). I definitely have to inspect it.

 

I am very sensitive right now, but my mind hasn't been this calm since... ever? I get immediate feedback of the situation, my mind does not start (over)analyzing, imagination doesn't start to run, my mind is quiet. This way, it's very easy to start analyzing what exactly causes the discomfort in a given situation.. and that discomfort is not carried over to non-threatening situations, they go away quite fast when I leave the unsafe environment.

 

Since my trauma came to my consciousness, my attitude towards myself has been more caring, understanding and protective. This is a profound change, and a good one at that :)

 

There's certainly lot of things involved in my life right now, and I have to take it easy. And that I will do.

 

Best of healing to each of you,

Bokart

 

EDIT: And oh, about exploring my sexuality. It's interesting that as I have been inspecting & analyzing my sexuality and setting some guidelines based on that knowledge, I'm more sensitive to sexual cues each day... Noticing attractive traits and behaviour, and all such. I don't think I can change what I find attractive, but I do think you can control arousal. Sexual cues are instinctual, but arousal is not completely in the realm of instinct (except for me there needs to be a release every now and then... so sometimes only instinctual). I do have to tell myself many times why now is not appropriate time for this... This might be because I do not release myself as often as before, but I have already experienced that body can adjust to other "release cycles" as well, so I will ride this through... But I totally understand why I've failed many times before... overly sensitive sexual response is a hard thing to contain. Well, all is well & learning happens :P

 

Hoping I'm not too open here. This thread really has a become a diary of sorts for me :)

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Bokart

Just to let you know: I'm doing good right now :) It seems this one event raised all kinds of issues from deeper within that I had to deal with. It was hard since I don't have a community in which to handle these things, I feel a community would have been helpful. But fortunately I managed to handle some pretty serious issues. :)

 

Take care everyone, and please be kind to yourself,

Bokart

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JanCarol

Hey Bokart - 

 

On 13/10/2016 at 4:26 AM, Bokart said:

Anyways, I've come across a few reports from people that have tried to taper this drug, and a few have said that the real problem for them have started when they went below 2,5 mg. That's interesting, as by then the only receptors still occupied by the drug are more or less histamine and serotonin...

 

Actually I found some information from Holistic Psychiatrist.com - 

Quote

Consider Zyprexa, it affects approximately 17 different subtypes of receptors, while Haldol affects two dopamine receptor subtypes. In between, we have Abilify, which affects 10 different receptor subtypes, while Seroquel affects seven different receptor subtypes. When these medications are lowered, the body has to adapt to the number of receptors that become unblocked.  It follows that it is easier for the body to adapt to changes, when there are fewer changes to adapt to.  When lowering an antipsychotic medication that affects many different neurotransmitter subtypes, such as Zyprexa, it may be helpful to use a "step-down process," tapering down the antipsychotic through the use of another antipsychotic that affects fewer receptor sites. For example, when tapering down on Zyprexa, gradually increase the dosage of Seroquel.   http://www.holisticpsychiatrist.com/10-practical-considerations-for-medication-withdrawl/

 

While I don't agree with his assessment that Seroquel should be used to step down - just as I wouldn't agree that Prozac should be used to step down, either - this multiple receptor occupation is shocking news, and might explain the difficulties with Zyprexa.

I note that you were unhappy to understand that Zyprexa hits on serotonin receptors, too.  This co-occupation is ironic since Lilly bundled Zyprexa with Prozac (and my Dad tried to get me to take it for "bipolar") in a product they called Symbyax.

 

But my point in posting the Holistic Psychiatrist quote is that - it's never just one thing or the other with these drugs.  They are systemic, and it appears that Zyprexa takes a shotgun approach to the brain - a spray of strikes to different receptors in the hopes that any of them might "do the trick."

Do you still take any supplements?  You had a long list of nootropics and aminos that might have gotten in the way of your recovery.  I have been watching your caffeine bounce up and down - I'm thinking that a steady state of low caffeine is better than bouncing it up and down.  I allow myself 1-2 caffeine drinks a day (today it is green tea, very mild), and when it is coffee, because coffee is so strong, I combine it with a 1/2 tsp butter and 1 tsp coconut oil.  You can put it in a blender to make it creamy - but I'm lazy and just stir it into my hot coffee and drink.  Though - I've got a new cappuccino machine and I've been forgetting to add fat to my coffee because the cappuccinos are so lovely!


You posted an article   http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/04/01/high-dopamine-levels-symptoms-adverse-reactions/

 

You focused on the stress and nervous breakdown part of the article, but I also thought that this one applies:

Quote
  • Insomnia: Excess dopamine may make it difficult to fall asleep, thus resulting in insomnia. Low levels of dopamine are associated with lethargy and chronic fatigue. Drugs that increase dopamine levels in the brain are associated with sleeping problems and insomnia.

 

This, if you are going to track neurotransmitters.  The bottom line is, all of these neurotransmitters are entangled into what scientists call a "connectome" and it is more about neurons firing together in patterns learned over time,  than it is about specific neurotransmitters.

Though it sounds like your sleep has come around - or has it gotten worse again?

 

On 07/12/2016 at 3:00 AM, Bokart said:

I only take zinc because I bought a bottle of it last year when I had low motivation and tried to seek some help to it.

 

Actually zinc is often indicated for stress response.  I have a little drink I can take - if I can't taste it, I'm low in zinc.  If it tastes HORRIBLE, I have enough zinc.  If I can taste it a little - probably still need zinc.  It's a local product, called "Zinc test," but maybe your chemist has something similar?  The active ingredient is zinc sulfate.

 

The other possibility I would consider is Niacin.  There's a huge discussion about niacinamide and full flush niacin - some people say that the flush is a necessary thing, but I have found a highly recommended substitute called inositol hexanicatinate which is highly bioavailable zinc (and recommended by Hoffer himself).  Niacinamide is not very helpful for extreme states.  Hoffer recommended mass quantities - grams - of niacin.  I recommend starting with a half gram, and building up until you start to feel better.  For me that is about 1.5-2 grams. 

 

On 12/12/2016 at 5:45 AM, Bokart said:

I think my mother will be supportive in my goal to lose weight, and might support me financially to reach it if need be. Is low-carbohydrate diet the way to go?

 

Before reducing carbs, look into fats.  The normal diet should be 30% fat.  A medical diet can be up to 50% fat (called "ketogenic' or 'modified ketogenic' if the full program is too extreme).  When eating fat it becomes easier to reduce carbs.  But the fat should be good fat - avocado, nuts, and I'm fond of coconut oil and grass fed butter (here, most butter is grass fed, maybe it is the same in your country?).  Carbs turn directly to sugar.  Here in Australia, food is looked at by GI (Glycemic Index) which is how fast the carb turns to sugar.  White sugar = 100, white bread = 80, etc.  Trying to keep your foods below 50 is a good start.

Diabetes and metabolic disorder are common side effects for Zyprexa.  Diet is good, exercise is good, but diet+exercise is the best plan.
Rough spots (where you could have held your doses):

November 2016, you wrote of waking up with uneasy feelings.

December 2016 - spiritual euphoria (deepening, but hard to function in society)

I'm not caught up yet, but I wanted to give you what I have so far (sheesh, I'm off to a doctor myself with a chronic throat thing).

I hope you see the sun today!

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Bokart

Thank You, JanCarol. I'm thinking of dropping coffee altogether.

About supplements: I don't take any right now. I'm so bad with these. Maybe I'll start magnesium again + fish oil. My budget doesn't give me much leeway, but I think I can afford taking 1 or 2 daily, or maybe even 3. What do you think of magnesium, fish oil + zinc?

To update my progress: unfortunately I'm back at 15mg. I tapered too fast. The 3-week-taper was not good, and I forgot that with going to lower doses the withdrawals are often harder.

I'm alright. I learned alot. Next time will be better. Next time when I approach lower doses I'm sure to let my body settle more so withdrawals won't be as hard. I already have tons of tools to deal with withdrawal, but I need more. I will read the articles in this site. I'm fortunate this site exists.

Thank you,

Bokart

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JanCarol

Hey Bokart - 

I'm still a page behind - 

On 11/01/2017 at 4:00 AM, Bokart said:

 

Other thing: In these last two months I have really struggled with almost OCD-like gambling. This isn't new to me, I have really struggled to not to part with my money to gambling activities since I was legally permitted to play (since I've been 18). It really gets me kind of "high" when I play. I'm not rational, I just enjoy the thrill.

 

I did this when I was in my drugged stupor - the machines are in many places in Australia, too.  When I first moved here, it was novel (gambling was illegal in Indiana, and now it's more legal but highly restricted), to play "Pokies."

 

I had no restriction on money, either.  I could spend $20 or $50 or $100 in a day, but I would have to answer to hubby.  So I tried to keep my sessions down to $10-20, once a week.

 

Unfortunately, olanzapine lowers your threshold of discipline, and increases your impulsive, emotional brain.  So it works against you.  As you were tapering, you got free of your impulse to gamble - but then it came back and bit you, so the freedom was illusory.  

 

Because I was at a "club," as they remodelled the club I noticed that the stakes on the machines kept going up.  First it was 20-25 lines per play.  Then it was 40, 50, even 200 lines per play.   I used to be able to play for 1-3 hours for $20.  Not solid, I took breaks (I was a smoker back then, too).    If I went to another club, I would get less time for my $20.  But I noticed at my club - as the remodelling got fancier, that the time I could play for $20 was shorter.  Pretty soon, it was down to just 8 minutes - with no change in my playing style.  I got disgusted and left and never went back.

I still play online,  but I made a rule - the same rule as cigarettes.  I am allowed to smoke a cigarette - but I am not allowed to buy them.  Now, I play on Facebook for free, but I am not allowed to buy time.  If you think of it as "buying time" instead of "buying chances" does that help your rational mind overtake your decision making process?   Or does your rational mind have much say at all?  My rational mind says, "I am just giving money to rich, greedy corporations.  I need my money more than they do."  But my emotions don't always concur, so I have now put fences around my behaviour so that my emotions don't have a say in the matter. 

 

The only way I can make sense of gambling is to think of it as entertainment money.  Here it costs $12 to go to a movie = 2 hours of entertainment.  Sometimes there is a premium show, like $25/hour for entertainment.   It's not about "winning around the corner," that's a false belief - it's about how much money you spend per hour of entertainment.  If, as you say, you don't care about money - then what is wrong with playing free on Facebook?  You can sometimes get hours for free there.  in fact, I  now have to put fences around the Facebook thing - in trying to "collect all my bonuses" I can waste time that could be better spent productively!

The thing about gambling (and this goes for porn addiction, too) is that you get 2 kinds of dopamine "hits" from playing.  You get a dopamine hit for trying a new machine (changing the bet on a machine, anytime you try something new) and you get a dopamine hit - any time the machine makes a positive noise (even if it doesn't win), or someone else's machine makes a positive noise.  So you're literally swimming in dopamine hits  to be at a place where people are playing these machines.  The hit of novelty is as great as the hit of reward.  Eventually, you get conditioned so that the "song" of the machines is addictive, too.  It's really, really evil!

Sadly, the best answer currently available are support groups, such as Gambler's Anonymous.  I've never called a government support line, so I don't know how much help they are.  If you can't put fences around your gambling (I am lucky, my fences are holding), then you need to get help with it.  The brain rewards could simply be too overpowering, and you might need a buddy to help you - someone you can call to stop feeding that reward system.

 

I came to a better understanding of addiction by watching  Your Brain On Porn  (yes, there is a similarity between gambling and masturbation, not eerie at all).  It's mostly a neurochemical explanation (and Karen suggested Gabor Mate's work, which addresses the psychosocial causes) - but it really does explain how the "hits" create channels which make falling into addictive behaviours.

Causes for concern:

Feb 22 - Dropping back to 3 weeks between tapers  (sometimes withdrawals aren't felt for months)

March - at 2.65 mg you report irritation and anger - were these from trying "old" (6 day old) suspension?

April - you start to notice sleep disruption

August - 1 mg, you start to report regular sleep disturbances.

 

 

On 14/08/2017 at 3:39 AM, Bokart said:

But all fear pass if you trust yourself and direct your mind to some other subject/activity. This IS about trusting yourself, or it is with me.

 

And then emotions can't really be 'controlled', only acknowedged... and then they dissipate. Or they don't and you allow you to feel that emotion. This is the trust: allow the emotion to come, and trust it... it will vanish eventually. It is your emotion after all, so not trusting emotions feels to me that you don't trust yourself either. It is a message to be read, and it opens when you have learned the right things to understand it.


This is brilliant insight!

I'm almost caught up, I hope you are doing well.

 

And I hope you see the Sun today!  (I envy you that sauna, seems to me that everyone should have a sauna for working things out!)
 

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Bokart

Just to drop this here: It seems, when you are on a low dose of olanzapine -below 1,5mg (or 2mg)... all the drops you do affect heavily on your appetite and sleep (or at least it did with me). I'm planning on going with maybe 7% or 5% reduction a month next time when I hit those doses.

Hoping your taper is going nicely,

Bokart

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Bokart
On 9/27/2017 at 8:07 AM, JanCarol said:

Before reducing carbs, look into fats.  The normal diet should be 30% fat.  A medical diet can be up to 50% fat (called "ketogenic' or 'modified ketogenic' if the full program is too extreme).  When eating fat it becomes easier to reduce carbs.  But the fat should be good fat - avocado, nuts, and I'm fond of coconut oil and grass fed butter (here, most butter is grass fed, maybe it is the same in your country?).  Carbs turn directly to sugar.  Here in Australia, food is looked at by GI (Glycemic Index) which is how fast the carb turns to sugar.  White sugar = 100, white bread = 80, etc.  Trying to keep your foods below 50 is a good start.

Thank you for your advice. Unfortunately the fat diet didn't work for me  - I gained weight. And I only tried the coffee with coconut oil. This is because - I think - olanzapine slows down metabolism, so I need less calories. But with exercise I will definitely prefer fats over carbohydrates. Also, I just can't completely switch diets because I eat for free in my school, and the food there is the basic diet (lots of carbohydrates) and I can't drop off free food.

 

 

On 9/29/2017 at 4:02 PM, JanCarol said:

Sadly, the best answer currently available are support groups, such as Gambler's Anonymous.  I've never called a government support line, so I don't know how much help they are.  If you can't put fences around your gambling (I am lucky, my fences are holding), then you need to get help with it.  The brain rewards could simply be too overpowering, and you might need a buddy to help you - someone you can call to stop feeding that reward system.

I have found just trusting myself not to play works for me. It is a firm decision with a vote of confidence for me. Same with sweets and porn/masturbation. I trust myself not do those things, and I get results. But for this to work I have to catch the "first impulse", or I'm on my way to do those things. I have handled -for the moment that is-  gambling (fingers crossed) and masturbation, only sweets are left, and they feel the hardest of the bunch.

 

---

 

In other news, I'm now at 11,75mg and I have really been pondering my experience with this drug on high doses, and my previous post-psychosis experience compared to this. What I've learned is that, even a small thing can cause me stress - just like the last time, but now I seem to be even more sensitive. Time heals... and sauna and exercise help with alleviating this stress. In a way I'm fine, because I have tools to deal with this stress-reaction, and I will read the articles written in this forum. I need all the tools I can get.

I sleep well, especially in weekends. I feel like I could do 15% drops so I could get somewhat functional again, because I have again become lethargic and unmotivated, and learning has again become harder. But I know I have to be careful. So my drop routine will be this:

custom drops based on how I feel until  I reach 10 mg... or 7,5mg... or somewhere between (haven't decided)

10% until 6 mg.

7,5% until 4 mg

5% until 1,5mg

3,5% until 0mg (will probably jump off from some dose)

 

Last time I couldn't accept the lethargy, lack of motivation and inability to learn, so I was anxious. Over time I accepted these. Now, in this week these three things have resurfaced, and I have had to accept these. Hardest is the inability to learn, because I'm studying an occupation, but I will have to accept this. I will not drop my studies, so I will have to find ways to learn or record my learning so I can come back to it if I forgot (and for this I have found a way).

 

From my last taper, I dropped 9,37mg to 7,5mg and held for 6 months, and then started 10% taper. I had time to stabilize, and I will have to ponder what that means in my current situation. Did I stabilize because I let go of worry, or because my body reached homeostasis, or a combination of both? Surely the increase from 1mg to 15mg has upset my homeostasis, so do I need time stabilize also because of this updose?

 

All the best,

Bokart

 

PS: My supplement regime for the moment is:

Zinc and fish oil in the morning,

Magnesium in the day and

Magnesium before sleep.

I also take Strath, which is supposed to contain various vitamins (however there is not mention of how much in the bottle). I also plan to add vitamin B complex.

 

I also plan to switch to paleo diet.

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bhasski

Inability to learn and retain is the reason I got into this mess.

Now I have lots of inabilities... those kept aside as baggage to remind me that if I have patiently accepted, i would be out of hell, doing job .. may  be at some  senior  exp lvl... 

 

Not washed off everything .. emotions.

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Bokart

Yes, acceptance... It is so important. And self-inquiry. I need to really get a sense on how well I am... I won't do any decision without that. And the last few months have taught me that I was neglecting myself, for there were signs pointing to trouble, yet I chose the gas-pedal instead of brake-pedal. Well, all is well, I'm not dead, I can continue. I will experience the taper again, now with more experience than the first time around. Let me share a quote I'm very fond of:

 

"If you can learn to wait, you can learn to trust.

If you can learn to trust, you can learn to observe.

If you can learn to observe, you can learn to recognize things."

Wisdom from the Greater Community  Volume Two  - Learning from Others

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JanCarol

Hey Bokart - I envy you your sauna!

 

There's something about sitting still in sauna that is - so healing.

 

The ability to sit in sauna - I'd love to have learned that as a child.

 

It's meditation, but it's purification too.

 

And I like your conservative taper plan.  It's good to take it gently.  You may find that you don't need to go slowly - or you may find you need to go more slowly.  Throw out the calendar, and listen to your symptoms.  Just remember that the symptoms can build gradually (as they did for you on the faster taper before) and you may not notice until you get into strife.  So it's important to listen to symptoms to make sure they're not stacking up on you.  If they do, slow down.  The calendar is always a good overview, or long term idea - but I wouldn't think of it as a plan to be executed - it may shift and adjust as you go!

 

On 12/11/2017 at 9:19 PM, Bokart said:

Last time I couldn't accept the lethargy, lack of motivation and inability to learn, so I was anxious. Over time I accepted these. Now, in this week these three things have resurfaced, and I have had to accept these. Hardest is the inability to learn, because I'm studying an occupation, but I will have to accept this. I will not drop my studies, so I will have to find ways to learn or record my learning so I can come back to it if I forgot (and for this I have found a way).

 

Ah, this is excellent acceptance!

 

I remember when younger, I found ways to "stupid proof" my life, so that brain energy wasn't wasted on stupid stuff like, "where did I put my keys?"  I taught myself to do things mnemonically - where a thing is, has something to do with what I am supposed to do with it.  The simplest thing is - if dishes are in the sink they are dirty, but there are more complex arrangements - certain things which have been in the same place with me for years so that I always reach for it there.  Then I don't spend precious brain on the little things.

Then there's the mnemonic houses.  The ancients learned by building houses out of the learning.  The Peruvian runners carried messages on the mountains using mnemonic beads.  The Greeks built "houses" out of learning structures (rooms, with "furniture" in it for each item of memory), or trees.  You've probably seen trees of languages, or taxonomy of animals, or genealogies or genetics.  There are middle eastern and African boards with beads and carvings to remember entire lineages, storylines - all of the knowledge of a person might be spelled out on this board.  It's a tactile way of learning.

 

On 12/11/2017 at 9:19 PM, Bokart said:

I also take Strath, which is supposed to contain various vitamins (however there is not mention of how much in the bottle). I also plan to add vitamin B complex.

 

I also plan to switch to paleo diet.

 

Please make changes slowly and gradually.  If you add a supplement, add it slowly.  I would not recommend B-complex right away.  Do you have your B12 bloods from a lab?  If they are low, that might be something to consider, but also consider just niacin.  Some people do well on B6, some people react horribly.  Some people need thiamine, some people need more.  The problem with a complex, is you might do really well on 2g of niacin, but only need 1000 mcg B12 - and you won't find any B-complex with the exact combination you need..  These are amounts you will need to titrate on your own - again slowly.  One ingredient at a time.  I would not add a complex.  B vitamins are usually cheap to buy individually.

I looked at Strath, it appears to be something like concentrated Vegemite - so it has food-based B-vitamins.  So you probably don't need to add anything to that.   While I usually object to complexes, this is a lot like eating food - so is probably the safest way to get your vitamins and aminos.  If you can take it safely, without reaction - then stick with the Strath!

(note to self:  I wonder if anyone in withdrawal has ever had a reaction to Vegemite?  Promite?  Marmite?  Any of those yeast-based products?)

(note to Bokart:  just sprinkling Brewer's Yeast on your cereal might be the same, only cheaper than the Strath supplement - or - eating a yeast paste with your meal)

 

On 13/11/2017 at 3:42 AM, Bokart said:

Yes, acceptance... It is so important. And self-inquiry. I need to really get a sense on how well I am...

 

This is so key, and I'm so glad to hear you say it!  

 

You haven't failed your taper - you've better learned how to succeed!

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

 

 

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Bokart

Thank you for your reply, JanCarol. I definitely like my sauna, especially as the closest one is almost besides my apartment!

About vitamin B complex -it definitely helps for what I bought it for: dry lips and hangnails in fingers. Now if I could only know which B vitamin specifically helped me. It figured it was some B deficiency as those vitamins are water-soluble and I lose a lot of water through exercise each day, so those vitamins must wash out too as well.

 

Also, just to point out that it's possible withdrawal symptom of olanzapine that you lose your urge to pee, or at least it did with me with 1mg. I also had some kind of night-time trouble breathing which was very scary. I even tried to not to care about it and sleep, and I almost choked. I wonder what that was?

 

Hoping you have had a nice day so far!
Bokart

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Plshelp
1 hour ago, Bokart said:

Also, just to point out that it's possible withdrawal symptom of olanzapine that you lose your urge to pee, or at least it did with me with 1mg.

I don't have the urge to go to the bathroom ever, or hunger, fullness and thirst. 

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Bokart
14 hours ago, Plshelp said:

I don't have the urge to go to the bathroom ever, or hunger, fullness and thirst. 

Thank you for the info. I also had no thirst or hunger at 1mg on top of psychotic symptoms. My irritable bowel syndrome also resurfaced at 1mg. Now I at least know how powerful this drug is, and I have to be careful - especially at lower doses.

 

Today I feel kind of sad that I have to start this again, but this I have to do. Like JanCarol said:  throw out the calendar! (And I would really want to cling to the calendar... I guess because of goal-orientation... I'm learning away from that...)

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Bokart

Just to post a question: am I tapering too fast? A drop in 26th Oct led to a slight decrease in sleep quality and a few days (4) of being very prone to stress. That sensitivity lifted and sleep got better between 11th - 12th of November. I decreased dose again 18th of November and last night I experienced a night with slightly worse sleep quality.

 

Why am I tapering faster? Two reasons (of which one is a good one, and the other is just a reason of convenience): Last time I was on these high doses, I tapered down to 7,5mg  faster (15-->11,25-->9,38-->7,5mg) without much problems (that I remember). Another is that I would really like to be in my best abilities in a certain internship. That internship will be starting in February (if I decide not to cancel it). My tapering plan for now is: 15-->13,5-->11,75-->10-->8,75-->7,5-->10% monthly taper. Also, some drops have not been monthly, but were in 22 day-intervals (and one in 2 week interval), and my next drop is supposed to be in 10th of December, and after that a drop to 7,5mg 1st of January, and after that a 10% drop routine.

 

I'm getting that I should monitor my symptoms. Are 4 days of being stress & anxiety-prone and with worse sleep alarming?  I will see in the coming few days what the withdrawal symptoms are and how long they last this time around.

 

I could just cancel the internship and let myself in a gentler taper, but then again if I can handle larger cuts, I would rather taper faster.

 

Thank you for your answers in advance,

Bokart

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Miko789


 

Hi Bokart,

don't go any faster than your body allows.

I would suggest to go on with your internship.You want to end the tapering when you start your internship? Why?

 

Good diet is key!!!

Miko


 

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Bokart
13 minutes ago, Miko789 said:


 

Hi Bokart,

don't go any faster than your body allows.

I would suggest to go on with your internship.You want to end the tapering when you start your internship? Why?

 

Good diet is key!!!

Miko


 

 

Hi Miko,

 

No, it was not my plan to end tapering when the internship starts, I just wanted to be at a lower dose, lower than 7,5mg.

 

I have also made a decision to slow my taper down, my next drop will be 10%, not 15% as I was planning before. This was because I was a little overemotional and slightly anxious last week. This week has been another story though, I have been very well, and especially sleeping well -sometimes 12 hours! I have 1 or 2 awakenings in the night, but I'm not worried because I sleep so long.

 

This is why I'm not worried, even though the week before was a little rough.

 

So I will drop my dose to 9mg soon. I don't have a day planned. I'm thinking of this sunday. I know that would be faster than a monthly drop. Maybe I'll hold for a week and  drop 17th of December. That would be a monthly drop.

I plan to switch to 10% monthly taper anyways when I hit 7,5mg, so this faster phase is only momentary.

Hope you are doing well in your taper!
Bokart

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JanCarol

Hey Bokart - 

 

On 22/11/2017 at 4:53 AM, Bokart said:

Why am I tapering faster?

 

Why are you tapering faster?

 

You noticed on your last taper that it went fine.  Until it didn't.

 

I wrote above (emphasis added):
 

On 19/11/2017 at 1:47 AM, JanCarol said:

Just remember that the symptoms can build gradually (as they did for you on the faster taper before) and you may not notice until you get into strife.  So it's important to listen to symptoms to make sure they're not stacking up on you.  If they do, slow down.

 

So - you are having symptoms.  When you have symptoms hold an extra month!

 

If you do this slowly, your capacities will improve as your doses get down.  It's better to go slowly and keep from getting caught!

 

You will find that you can perform just fine for your internship.  You are intelligent, eager, hardworking and ambitious.  It's better to go slow and avoid symptoms as much as possible, rather than shoot for some fictitious "clarity" which will happen at some point anyway!


Respect your body, respect your brain.  You deserve the internship, you earned it.  You earned it while drugged.  You want to come off the drugs, but please do so safely and slowly.

 

On 22/11/2017 at 4:53 AM, Bokart said:

Are 4 days of being stress & anxiety-prone and with worse sleep alarming? 

 

Not particularly.  But I wouldn't accelerate a taper, either.  I would keep plugging at one month intervals.  If I have symptoms in the 3rd week after taper, I would wait another month before dropping again.  At least, that's how I did it.

 

So - here's a vote for - continue at 10%, continue monthly.  There are biological reasons for these slow tapers, even if you've 'gotten away with it before" - you haven't, really - because you did end up in hospital again.  It would be impossible to continue your internship from hospital!

 

You're doing great - you got this!  I really look forward to seeing how you are in 5 years time!  If you look at my thread, my symptoms were cut by 2/3 - but it took 4 years. I'm (much!) older than you, so you should heal more quickly.  But that doesn't mean I recommend tapering more quickly!

 

I hope you see the sun today!

PS - peeing.  Lots of water.  Lots and lots and lots of water - olanzapine has been tied to kidney problems.  It's primarily metabolised in liver, but can cause kidney dysfunction, too.  So - when you are drinking your lots and lots of water - remember to get some electrolytes, too.  We have drinks here in Australia called "Pedialyte" which provides electrolytes, but it's expensive.  It's probably cheaper (and healthier) to get natural sea salt or himalayan pink salt.  Think of it as nourishing your kidneys.

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Bokart
12 hours ago, JanCarol said:

So - you are having symptoms.  When you have symptoms hold an extra month!

 

Thank you for your answer. This is the thing I'm unsure about. I have anxiety and awakenings in the night if there's stress. I have noticed I am stress-sensitive, like in my last taper. But is this a withdrawal symptom, my natural reaction or due to psychosis I experienced?

 

So I'm prone to being anxious in a stressful environment. Or maybe about something upcoming, like this internship was to me last week (note: now the internship has started, and I'm doing relatively fine there). I stressed before internship, I was anxious. Now less so. I even sleep better, now that it turned out I'm doing a fine job there.

 

So is this sensitivity a withdrawal symptom, or what is it? It surely didn't go away last time, it was with me the whole last taper. Maybe it was less pronounced at times, but it was there.

 

So should I hold my dose when there's something stressful in my life? I don't know about this, because this is actually a vicious cycle: I stress because I'm dumber, and if I hold my dose due to that, I will remain dumber. This was evident in my previous studies. I had to drop out, and my sleep improved and stress vanished.

 

I have to admit there's not a lot to be done considering this internship. It lasts for 2 months... my medicine dose doesn't drop a whole lot in that time-frame.

 

I still have performance-pressure. I want to do better, that's why I want to lower my dose. I know that somewhere below 7,5mg I get my intellect back... Coming from 10mg to 9mg and then to 8,1mg might not help a lot, but it still helps. I dropped from 15mg to 10mg quite fast. With 10%/month method it would have taken 4 months. I did it in 2. So could I drop my dose faster?

From my last tapering attempts, I always got easily to 7,5mg. Always. I did it many times. And the trouble began below those doses.

 

It seems I like writing long stories, so I will skip to the end: Yes, I'm not in a hurry right now. I can switch to 10% monthly taper. I know it's gentle. It's a pity my motivation will be what it is in the while. I would have liked better. I take relief from the fact that in the summer it will be better. It's a pity that my cravings for sugar are back, and will be for a long time, until my dose approaches 1 mg again.

 

My next drop will be a monthly. So next Sunday. I will be considering doing faster approach, if I get no symptoms at all for the whole month, so no anxiety or sleeping difficulties. Maybe they are symptoms... Maybe stress-sensitivity is a symptom. I really don't know. All I know I have it.

 

Wishing you all a good weekend,

Bokart

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Bokart

Hello again,

 

I'm thinking of implementing some kind of safety mechanism for myself about tapering. Like: at least 2 weeks have to be symptom-free before a drop. I think something like this is essential. I also have to watch how my symptoms develop:  have they decreased compared to my last drop or have they increased. This should play some role in tapering speed.

 

About what is a symptom and what is not: I don't know if sensitivity to stress is a symptom, but I know involuntary thoughts are, even though they often manifest only when I'm stressed. It's curious all my symptoms seems to be revolving around stress and mitigated by things that relieve stress.

 

I am also starting a practice of taking care of myself more conscientiously. I have noticed I need this.

Best Regards,

Bokart

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