Heather Rose: Hello

[HeatherRose]

Hi. My friend referred me here. She is concerned about all my medications and bad side effects I have been having for a long time such as forgetfulness, trouble concentrating, shaking and dependency. I am on many medicines and have been taking various meds for almost 26 years to control my mood disorder. I have had times of shaking problems. I also have trouble staying focused and concentrating. I used to be a big reader but now it is hard for me to read a whole book. My attention just drifts. I am dependent on them for sleep especially. I wanted to see what this was all about so perhaps can come down off of them without serious consequences.

Edited September 27, 2016 by JanCarol
tags added

[mammaP]

Hello HeatherRose, welcome to SA. We certainly can help you to minimise your drugs so that you can feel better. It will take time and patience but the pay reward will be a much better quality of life.  It will help us if you can make a list of the drugs you take, with approximate start dates and  doses. You can put it in your signature. Instructions on how to do that are here.... 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

It would also be good if you put all the drugs into the interactions checker at drugs.com and copy the results here.  http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html

 

Don't worry if you can't manage it we can do it for you but the list of drugs in your signature is important, we know how it is when your brain is so fogged it is difficult to concentrate! 

[JanCarol]

G'day HeatherRose - welcome to SA!

 

You are certainly suffering from drug side effects, and 26 years is a long time to be on them.  I'm sure the prospect is scary.

 

It will take patience, but the good news is, once you get started and start to feel better, you will realize you can do this.

 

Please read here to understand how the drugs work, and why we taper so slowly:

 

Rhi's description of healing the brain

 

and

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

We look forward to seeing your signature - just include what you are on right now, with maybe the last year's history of drug changes.  We need dosages, and dates you were put on them (if you remember).

 

The wise, experienced folks in here can help you untangle the knots, and make suggestions for how to deal with symptoms of withdrawal.  We make every effort to avoid withdrawal symptoms, but sometimes, the drugs have the final say on that one.

 

Again, welcome!  

[JanCarol]

ps you can use this thread as a journal to post your symptoms and thoughts about your feelings, and track your progress.

 

and if you are having trouble reading, these videos might help you understand better:

 

Withdrawal Dialogues - cartoons to encourage you

 

and 

[KarenB]

Welcome Heather Rose,

 

The others have given you some good links to read, and I'm sure when you've put all your information in your signature they'll help you make a good plan for reducing your drugs.

 

I wanted to welcome you too and also share my favourite page on this site with you:  Non-Drug Techniques for Managing Emotional Symptoms.  It's one I go back to over and over, as building up good self-care is a major part of getting through withdrawal.  

 

I'm glad you are here; there'll be lots of support for you.

 

Best wishes,

Karen

[HeatherRose]

I am on a mood stabilizer and an antidepressent. I notice when I don't take the antidepressent I cry a lot the next few days until i can take it again. (I have run out of it before). and I am so much more sensitive and sometimes can mess up my primary relationships due to oversensitivity. Should I reduce my mood stabilizer first and then tackle my antidepressent? I am only on 8mg of my AD but a lot more on my mood stabilizer.

[mammaP]

Hi Heather, thank you for filling out your signature. How often do you need to take lorazepam?  

 

There will likely be some interactions between the drugs, so if you go to http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html  and put all the drugs and any supplements you take into the interactions checker then post the results here we can see what any interactions are and work out the best way forward for you. 

It is quite a cocktail, no wonder you feel bad! Many of us have been on similar cocktails and are much better after tapering them. You will be too

[HeatherRose]

I have always been on a cocktail. Since I started out I have had many diagnoses thrown around and many drugs thrown at the problems to try to make it better. I am scared of prospect of going off them. My body hasn't been med free for over 30 years and when I have been through med changes, withdrawal it has always resulted in hospitalization, increased disability, inability to sleep, messed up personal relationships and just general impairment that make me run back to the meds.

[HeatherRose]

For over 20 years. Well almost 30 years now. Wow.

[HeatherRose]

I am seeing my psychiatrist on Monday and will discuss this with him. I'm sure he will be resistant as he has seen me through many hard times and I've been doing so well the last few years. Though I know a lot of that is my increased physical health, diet and activity that has made it better he will most likely attribute much of it to my med cocktail. I'm going to start with my seroquel first as I think that is the one causing me the worst issues right now

[HeatherRose]

Hi Heather, thank you for filling out your signature. How often do you need to take lorazepam?

 

There will likely be some interactions between the drugs, so if you go to http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and put all the drugs and any supplements you take into the interactions checker then post the results here we can see what any interactions are and work out the best way forward for you.

It is quite a cocktail, no wonder you feel bad! Many of us have been on similar cocktails and are much better after tapering them. You will be too

[HeatherRose]

I take lorazapem only when I am feeling high anxiety. Mostly situational anxiety about work, relationships with friends, paranoia and hyper sensitivity to others emotional states and behaviors.

[mammaP]

You are right that your psychiatrist will believe it is the drugs making you well and might be resistant to you trying to reduce them.  With vary careful tapering it is possible to come off them with little discomfort when done very slowly and carefully. I had many drugs over the years and ended up very sick. All my adult life I had drugs given to me whenever I went to the doctor, had multiple hospitalisations leading to cocktails of drugs that were changed and experimented with while making me very sick.  I am now 65 and finally almost free of them. Physically I have ongoing non drug related conditions but my brain is not as foggy and I can drive again.

 

Does the seroquel make you feel worse after taking it?  If you take notes on paper what happens after your doses and how you feel you will see a pattern emerge. It could be that there is an interaction between seroquel and another drug/s. 

 

Hypersensitivity is common among us here, your nervous system is struggling with the drugs and all the changes over the years. It helps to know what it is and why it happens, it's easier to deal with when we can remember that and not panic when a new symptom appears or becomes worse.  

[HeatherRose]

You are right that your psychiatrist will believe it is the drugs making you well and might be resistant to you trying to reduce them.  With vary careful tapering it is possible to come off them with little discomfort when done very slowly and carefully. I had many drugs over the years and ended up very sick. All my adult life I had drugs given to me whenever I went to the doctor, had multiple hospitalisations leading to cocktails of drugs that were changed and experimented with while making me very sick.  I am now 65 and finally almost free of them. Physically I have ongoing non drug related conditions but my brain is not as foggy and I can drive again.

 

Does the seroquel make you feel worse after taking it?  If you take notes on paper what happens after your doses and how you feel you will see a pattern emerge. It could be that there is an interaction between seroquel and another drug/s. 

 

Hypersensitivity is common among us here, your nervous system is struggling with the drugs and all the changes over the years. It helps to know what it is and why it happens, it's easier to deal with when we can remember that and not panic when a new symptom appears or becomes worse.  

 

 

I am not sure how to put my interaction results here.

[mammaP]

Here is the list of interactions.  With care and patience you can very slowly reduce the drugs you are taking and feel better . Side effects are dose related and as the dose lowers the side effects lessen too. Some people tapering multiple meds reduce one for a few months, then reduce another for a few months and so on. This means that they are all being reduced but not at once. It isn't advisable to taper more than one at a time because if there is any withdrawal there is no way of knowing which drug to slow down.  

Do you take any supplements? They can also interact with drugs, but most people don't think of them being able to interact with drugs. 

Interactions between your selected drugs

Moderate lorazepam  lamotrigine

Applies to: lorazepam, Lamictal (lamotrigine)

Using LORazepam together with lamoTRIgine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate lorazepam  quetiapine

Applies to: lorazepam, Seroquel (quetiapine)

Before using LORazepam, tell your doctor if you also use QUEtiapine. This combination may cause excessive sedation, confusion, dizziness, or lack of coordination. If you take both medications together, tell your doctor if you have any of these symptoms. You may need a dose adjustment if you take both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate lorazepam  ramelteon

Applies to: lorazepam, Rozerem (ramelteon)

Using LORazepam together with ramelteon may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate lamotrigine  ramelteon

Applies to: Lamictal (lamotrigine), Rozerem (ramelteon)

Using lamoTRIgine together with ramelteon may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate quetiapine  ramelteon

Applies to: Seroquel (quetiapine), Rozerem (ramelteon)

Using QUEtiapine together with ramelteon may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

Switch to professional interaction data

Moderate meloxicam  vortioxetine

Applies to: Mobic (meloxicam), Brintellix (vortioxetine)

Using vortioxetine together with meloxicam may increase the risk of bleeding. The interaction may be more likely if you are elderly or have kidney or liver disease. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience any unusual bleeding or bruising, or have other signs and symptoms of bleeding such as dizziness; lightheadedness; red or black, tarry stools; coughing up or vomiting fresh or dried blood that looks like coffee grounds; severe headache; and weakness.

 

 

[HeatherRose]

Thank you so much!

[JanCarol]

The good news is, we see people come in here with many MAJOR interactions.  You don't have any of those.

[JanCarol]

Hi Heather - a little housekeeping.  We keep one intro thread per person.  You need to bookmark this page, or - if you look in the upper right hand part of this page, there is a "FOLLOW" button.

 

You can teach SA (in profile settings) to send you an email every time you get a new message here.

 

If you want to use SA from a phone, it reacts a little differently.  It's better to use SA from a computer, but not everyone can.  One of our former moderators has made a little instructional video to help people with using SA from a phone:

How To Use Surviving Antidepressants from a Phone

[mammaP]

It might be worth speaking to your psychiatrist about reducing the drug load because of all the side effects and see what he/she suggests.  We would recommend tapering the brintillex first, as it seems to be one that is interacting to make the symptoms worse. 

 

Some people have success by tapering one drug for a few months, then tapering another for a few months, this way all are reduced gradually. We don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time because if there is any withdrawal we don't know which one to slow down.  You can do this but needs to be slow and steady so that your brain adjusts between the drops in dose. I tapered 3 drugs and felt better as the doses lowered. Not the same as yours, some could taper quite quickly but managed to get off them successfully and now tapering the last one.  You have been on lots of drugs and have come off them, then had to go on something else, likely because your doctor said you needed meds for your 'illness' . The fact is that the drugs create a chemical imbalance that leads to withdrawal not relapse! I did this too for decades until I learned about tapering safely and I am so glad now that I did. 

[mammaP]

We don't have a topic on tapering brintillex but the same guide applies to all the anti depressants, taper 10% of the CURRENT dose with at least 4 weeks between drops. If you have any withdrawal symptoms, slow down Keep askking questions here and we will help you through this

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

[purcy51]

For over 20 years. Well almost 30 years now. Wow.

Welcome, Heather Rose! Was just reading your posts and this just jumped out at me.

I know that feeling! It's like, where did all that time go!?!? I'm hoping, for all of us, that the same affect happens years after we're off these drugs!

 

BTW, I used to spend quite a bit of time in southern Indiana, including Bloomington from time to time. Spent a lot of time on Monroe Reservoir. Not a bad place to live in Indiana, as opposed to say Northern Indiana where it's all cornfields (where I lived for 20yrs).

[HeatherRose]

 

For over 20 years. Well almost 30 years now. Wow.

Welcome, Heather Rose! Was just reading your posts and this just jumped out at me.

I know that feeling! It's like, where did all that time go!?!? I'm hoping, for all of us, that the same affect happens years after we're off these drugs!

 

BTW, I used to spend quite a bit of time in southern Indiana, including Bloomington from time to time. Spent a lot of time on Monroe Reservoir. Not a bad place to live in Indiana, as opposed to say Northern Indiana where it's all cornfields (where I lived for 20yrs).

[HeatherRose]

Hi! Yes I know time has flown. I love where I live and it is a great place to find healthy things to do. I will take all of this information into my doctor on Monday. I appreciate all the help and hope I can be successful. I'm not even sure what life will be like with no medication. I know it will take awhile. I will ask about the Brintelix.

[ChessieCat]

Hi HeatherRose,

 

Welcome to SA.  It's great that you have joined us here.  The members are very supportive and encouraging and there is a wealth of information here.

 

You might like to read these before seeing your doctor.  I particularly like the suggestion of telling the doctor that you want to be on the lowest possible dose:

 

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

I suggest that you post back here any suggestions that the doctor makes BEFORE you follow their advice so that you can get opinions about them.  And remember, it's up to you to make the final decision based on information you have.

[SquirrellyGirl]

I take lorazapem only when I am feeling high anxiety. Mostly situational anxiety about work, relationships with friends, paranoia and hyper sensitivity to others emotional states and behaviors.

 

HI HeatherRose, 

 

I am late to your thread but I just wanted to comment that these situations for which you are taking L are likely drug-induced emotional states.  I never realized it at the time, but while on Effexor for 12+ years, I had all those hypersensitivities.  I was overly concerned about others' opinions or upsets, taking it all on myself.  Social anxiety high.  Always comparing myself to others and feeling badly about it.  Very sensitive to constructive criticism even.  I would get so worked up over things that most would take in stride.  I can say that now that I am tapering slowly and am on "subtherapeutic" dosages of my meds, I handle stress much better than ever before, am much calmer and more confident in myself.

 

Peter Breggin coined it "spellbinding," where we just don't make the connection between the meds and our worsening condition, side effects, worsening depression or anxiety despite the meds, higher sensitivity to stress, etc.  I have encountered others on this site who have experienced the same things, and it comes up in withdrawal as well when one comes off too quickly or cold turkeys.

 

A properly slow taper off some or all of your meds may take some time, but you will likely find that life gets better from doing so!  

 

SG

[JanCarol]

Hey HeatherRose - 

 

You might like to read this thread from someone who survived polydrugging for a similar number of years to yourself:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7419-sheps-journey/

 

Shep is still around, and is in recovery.

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[Shep]

I take lorazapem only when I am feeling high anxiety. Mostly situational anxiety about work, relationships with friends, paranoia and hyper sensitivity to others emotional states and behaviors.

 

Hi, HeatherRose. I am also a long time user of many, many, many meds. And I'm still working, too.

 

Anything you can do to lower that anxiety will help you as you continue to come off your meds. Mindfulness, gentle yoga, music, dance, etc. all are great. Sometimes it gets too overwhelming to process the words, but just keeping mindfulness videos running in the evening before sleep seems to help me.

 

I'm almost a year off all meds now and slowly recovering. I wanted to send some healing vibes your way. Please let us know how you're doing.

[HeatherRose]

HI. It has been awhile since I was on here. A lot has gone on. I was tapering pretty well off my Seroquel and Brintellex and Rozerem but i think i went too fast. I ended up hospitalized in June. The doctors there took me off my Seroquel and put me on the monthly Invega shot; took me off Rozerem completely and on to Remeron; put me on Propanolol for the side effects of the Invega shot which were akathesia (not sure i am spelling that right) and an inner restlessness in my mind. I am now having a lot of effects especially with taken off the Seroquel which I was on a significant dose for years--at bedtime. But it was Seroquel XR which meant it lasted all day.

 

so some stuff I am experiencing:   hyper sensitivity to noise; lights and everything else. Rage and anger that appear out of nowhere or with very little provocation; an inability to sleep without the Seroquel to help me; overwhelming feelings of despair and sadness; a loss of motivation for my workouts and running; loss of appetite. On a aside--I have been having problems with an under active thyroid which has complecated all this stuff.

 

so I am here. I am scared to taper off any of my medications again right now. But I am here to get info and support. I will try to stay this time.

 

 

Heather

[Shep]

I'm glad you're back and posting, Heather. 

 

Seroquel was the last drug I came off and even though I managed to get down to 6.25 mg before completely letting it go, I still had withdrawal, so that fact that you're having problems sleeping without Seroquel sounds very familiar.

 

What dose of Remeron are you on? Is that being used to help with sleep? Also, are you still taking Ativan as listed in your signature at 2 mg? 

 

Hopefully once you get stabilized on your current cocktail, your sleep will improve and then when you are ready and able, you can start a very slow and careful taper. 

 

I'm glad you're out of the hospital and back to posting here again. 

 

 

[JanCarol]

Hey Heather, good to see you back - it is my understanding that the Seroquel can really mess with thyroid (among other things) and may be the cause of this problem.  But I'm not the best researcher in the house, I'm going see if I can find someone to find out more.

 

Not sure what good it will do - you are off the drug now, and on the Invega, but the Invega is the same class of drugs, even if it has a different "balance" of neurotransmitters that it hits (I haven't been able to find that, either).  Tips for Tapering off Invega paliperidone  (I know you're not ready to taper, but you can learn stuff about your new drug here).

 

Thank you for updating your signature, as you know - your symptoms are from withdrawal.  You might review the links given above, especially the Why taper by 10% of my dosage? to find out why your last taper went too fast.

 

and you may be helped by looking at this list of symptoms to see that most of your symptoms are "common in withdrawal." http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

 You can also use this list to track your symptoms, as recovery happens in Waves and Windows - and symptoms change as you heal.

[HeatherRose]

hi. Thanks for the response. In the hospital they didn't taper me of the Seroquel at all! I went from 300mg per night on my first night there to 100mg a night the next two days then down to nothing the last few nights. The first day and night I was up for 25 hours straight!

 

I think my body is getting more used to the no-seroquel thing but it's slow going. The fact that they went from 300mg to nothing in 5 days was unreal and I was very upset about it. The Invega is given to me in shot form every month and will be supposedly going down to every 3 months at some point. I want to continue to take it until my symptoms are stabilized. At this point I am still in a dangerous see-saw of symptoms and withdrawal from a drug i was on for years.

 

I am on Remeron 8mg at night and they have added back my rozerem to help with my sleep (15mg). I was also recently on Chantix. Forgot to mention that. I believe it might have led to some of my most dangerous urges such as suicidal and others. I am off Chantix now as well.

 

My sleep is still very sporadic. yesterday I crashed from 3-5 then last night got about 7 hours. So it is better but I am still used to sleeping like a bear every night so going 3-5 nights between good night's sleep is very hard on me. some of this could be attributed to my thyroid issues as well but I KNOW going off a heavy sleeping drug like seroquel so suddenly was not good for my system.

[HeatherRose]

Also since going off the Chanix, I (a previously successful smoker quitter) have double up on my urges and returned to smoking pretty hard. REALLY UPSET about that. Its like I was going along fine with staying quit (with an occasional cheat ciggie when stressed) to relying solely on the Chantix to keep me off of them. Now I am off Chantix its like by body is having to go through withdrawel from nicotine all over again doubly hard this time I am working on it using a bit of light nicotine gum and thinking about going back on a low patch dose until I can get off it completely again.

 

Don't want to have to rely on nicotine replacement either but my body seems to crave the nicotine 10X more.

[JanCarol]

That nicotine thing may be seroquel withdrawal.  You've quit before, you can do it again.

 

Try not to beat yourself up for it now. 

 

How long were you on Chantix?  Please add it to signature, also I looked up Mobic and it is same as Meloxicam?  So I'm a little confused by your signature.  You are really on 22.5 mg of meloxicam?

 

The Invega would be better on a once a month dose, instead of every 3 months.  I know you like the idea of only going every 3 months, but do you really like the idea of having your blood serum go down to nearly 0 (like a total taper every 3 months) before getting the shot?  There will still be some spikes and valleys once a month, and there are smaller doses that you can ask for.  If you are willing to take the shot monthly, it will be more stable for you until you can taper. 

[JanCarol]

One of our Moderators, Scallywag, is a clever woman and can figure out things like half life and blood serum and put them in pretty charts and graphs so that plain folks can understand.

 

Here is Invega every month.  The Green line is a big "loading" dose at the hospital, 150 mg, followed by a dose every 2 weeks.  The blue line is very similar, if you just get the same shot every 2 weeks.  The red line is similar to what your plan is - a big loading dose at first, another dose 8 days later, then a monthly dose thereafter.  Notice how spiky the line is.  That is your what your mood and "manifestations" will be subject to, based on changes in the dosage of the drug in your system.  Not very steady:

 

 

So you see how much larger the peaks and valleys are with the monthly dosing compared to the bi-weekly one.

 

With 3 months, you almost run completely out of drug.  Invega has a half-life of 25 days - it is half way gone from your system in 25 days.

 

Here's Scallywag's chart:

 

 

So if you take the drug, at 3 months - or 90 days - you will have only 9% of the drug in your system.  Think about how shocking it was to come down by half of your seroquel.  Now think about doing that every 3 months.

 

I understand the shots are easier for you now.  But asking questions is always the best way to get what is best for you.  I don't have a chart to show you what the "loading" looks like for a 3 month shot, but I'm hoping these 2 pictures will give you an idea.  Hopefully you can take your concerns to your doctor - 

 

Or you can wait and see how the 3 months feels (it may not hit until 6 months out because of the big "loading" dose) and see if that's how you want to do it.

 

Sorry, if this is a technical thing, but it's here, on your thread, for your reference. 

[scallywag]

Heather Rose, I just added tags to this thread. When searching for generic drug names, I discovered that Mobic is a brand-name for Meloxicam.

 

Is the same doctor prescribing Mobic and Meloxicam? Are you getting the prescriptions filled at the same pharmacy?

[JanCarol]

Oh yeah, I would guess (though I don't know) that Chantix withdrawal, because it hits the nicotine receptors, would severely increase your cravings...

 

I couldn't find a Chantix tapering thread - but I did find this:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/411-highest-suicide-rate-from-chantix-obscured-by-pfizer-reports/

 

Anger and suicidal much?  Chantix.  Famous for it.  (as are all the other drugs you are on, but Chantix gets a "dishonourable mention.")