Viper73: need help please on Paxil

[JanCarol]

Hey Viper, I'm sorry you had to go to hospital.  I had 2 dear friends have crises and had to go to hospital last week and this one.

 

Here's what I told them:

 

I'm glad you're safe.  I'm sorry you feel so badly.  The hospital will let you go when you are stabilized.  When you get stabilized, you can go home and look at your life anew.

 

Maybe you will taper down to 11 mg, and stay there forever (that's better than 20, 30, 40).  Maybe you will stay at 40 mg, but you will learn things about your life that will make it better so maybe you don't need the drugs later.  

 

The important thing is you are alive and safe, and you have a chance to start again.  

 

If that thing is a taper, you are now wiser - and know what not to do!  I say this to my friends quitting smoking - each failure is a success, because you've learned more about what you need in order to quit.  Sometimes it takes 20 tries or more to quit cigarettes.

 

Keep yourself safe, get yourself feeling as well as possible, and learn as much as you can about what you want to do next.

 

ps - finding a doctor to taper you is easier said than done.  There are only a handful in North America that we know of.  Most of us have had to take charge of our own tapers.

[viper73]

Any help please, I was on Paxil 30mg for around 18 years, I relapse 2 to 3 times, the last time I relapse I was on 10mg, when I went to the hospital the doctor put me on 20mg Paxil for two weeks

Didn't work then up the to 30mg for two weeks and final up the dose to 40mg for two weeks, I don't think is working So the new doctor will cross tapper. Take 20 mg of Paxil and take 20mg of Prozac the same day, then slowly deceased one And up the other med until the Paxil down to 0mg. will this work.

I am just scare taking two together. If it work I stay on Prozac for like 3 years then try to tapper it slowly with a new Doctor.

[viper73]

Hi, little update.

I went to the hospital May 13 because of withdraw from 10mg of Paxil (been taking 20-30mg for the past 18-20 years). The doctor put me on 15mg of zopiclone, 1-2mg of Ativan and 20mg of Prozac (approx 2 1/2 mths). I couldn't sleep (slept only 1-5hrs nightly). I was suicidal and cried all the time. I discharged from hospital on july 13.

 

I ended up quitting zopiclone on July 13 (cold turkey), then started tapering from Ativan 1mg down to 0mg (July 27 to September 7). I went down from Prozac 20mg to 10mg on July 27. Today I am only taking Prozac 10mg in the morning and I have a cup chamomile tea before bed to help me sleep.

 

Currently, I don't cry anymore, I sleep around 5 to 8hrs a night and I don't have suicidal thoughts anymore. I go to the gym everyday and I do meditation. I do have some anxiety and depression but I think I am getting a little better day by day.

Edited November 19, 2016 by scallywag
added paragraph breaks

[viper73]

Hi, little update.

 

I went to the hospital May 13 because of withdraw from 10mg of Paxil (been taking 20-30mg for the past 18-20 years). The doctor put me on 15mg of zopiclone, 1-2mg of Ativan and 20mg of Prozac (approx 2 1/2 mths). I couldn't sleep (slept only 1-5hrs nightly). I was suicidal and cried all the time. I discharged from hospital on july 13. I ended up quitting zopiclone on July 13 (cold turkey), then started tapering from Ativan 1mg down to 0mg (July 27 to September 7). I went down from Prozac 20mg to 10mg on July 27. Today I am only taking Prozac 10mg in the morning and I have a cup chamomile tea before bed to help me sleep. Currently, I don't cry anymore, I sleep around 5 to 8hrs a night and I don't have suicidal thoughts anymore. I go to the gym everyday and I do meditation. I do have some anxiety and depression but I think I am getting a little better day by day.

Edited November 19, 2016 by scallywag
moved from new topic started in Tapering forum

[baroquep]

Hi viper73, am so sorry to read about your awful experience trying to get off of these drugs.  It breaks my heart when I read stories like yours and truly wish that doctors were more experienced in helping people safely off of these drugs ... unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

It sounds like you are in a much better place today and that is very encouraging, am glad you are safe and stabilizing.  I have also tried to get off of these drugs a number of times in the past and ended up back on them as I tapered too fast and ended up with horrible withdrawal.  Have just started a new taper with help from the moderators on this site and can assure you that they have a wealth of information on how to taper off safely -- you are in good hands now!!!  I have heard that tapering off of prozac is a lot easier than many of the other antidepressants.

 

Am sure that an experienced moderator will be along soon to help you set up a safe and realistic plan to taper if that is what you are planning to do.  Wishing you the best of luck, take good care of yourself.  

[scallywag]

Good to hear that you are feeling more stable. 
 
Would you update your signature to show the medications you started taking in May, with the dates of your last doses for zopiclone & Ativan? Please include the fact that you are currently taking 10 mg Prozac.

It's probably a good idea to hold steady at your current Prozac dose for another couple of months to allow your CNS (central nervous system) to continue to recover from the medication changes earlier this year. Let us know when you're ready to taper Prozac. For reference
Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

[viper73]

Hi

I was doing ok for two month (sept 04 to nov 04) sleeping for 5 to 8 hrs a day, no crying just a little bit of anxiety.

But it's been two weeks I feel depress and having anxiety, panic attack and very little homicidal thoughts. Today I cry for 2 minutes ( I use to cry around 5 to 30 min in the hospital 2 to 3 time a day) is it a wave I having, how long the wave will last before I get a window, I do not want take anymore pills.

Please any help thanks.

[scallywag]

Waves and windows come and go. They can be as short as a few minutes or last as long as several weeks. I'm sad to say that I don't think there is anyone who can accurately predict how long you will be going through these cycles.
 

Your signature indicates that your only medication is Prozac 10 mg.

Is this correct? 

Are you taking any other medications for ANY reason?
 

Tracking symptoms for a week *may* be helpful in identifying the source of symptoms. Please keep notes on paper of your symptoms and the times of your dose(s). This post has a useful format for a daily log:
Take notes of doses and symptoms

[viper73]

Thanks that is correct, I only take Prozac 10 mg for 3 months and no other medication. Do u think Prozac is not working for me that I might have a relapse

[viper73]

Oh sorry I have a question,

I search the internet that people who successful get off antipressant, 2 or 3 years later they went back

On antidepressants. Has anyone get off antidepressants successfully and never went back on it.

[KarenB]

I'd easily know a handful of such people in real life.  Which would indicate that many people do indeed recover without returning to drugs. 

[viper73]

Hi little update,

 

I been doing a little better. I am taking Prozac 10 mg for 9 or 10 month now with no other medication like zopiclone or Ativan the only things I using is light thepry every morning for 30mins. 

I am going through another withdrawal right now from gambling addiction, I just learn gambling addiction cause withdrawal symptoms, so no more gambling for me. In two month from now I will see my doctor and ask him to reduce my mg, I heard Prozac is easier to tapper then Paxil.

[Madeleine]

Good to hear you are doing a bit better.  Nice to read your update. 

[viper73]

Hi I have a question, 

I was taking omega 3 (1250mg) and magnesium 50mg every day,

3 weeks ago I decided to take omega 3 every tues, thurs, sat and magnesium every mon, wed, fri, sun

i start to feel very dizziness and nausea for the past 3 weeks.

i am still taking my Prozac 10mg. 

Is it that I am going through windows and waves from Paxil or Ativan or zopiclone 

or because I taking every other days with my omega and magnesium.

next week I will start to drop my Prozac to 9 mg for one month than 8mg for a month

into till I get to 0.

I forgot to mention that I been taking Prozac 10mg for 1 year now.

thx any help will do

[mammaP]

Hi Viper, it looks like the omega 3 and magnesium are helping with the withdrawal symptoms. It can take a long time to recover from the drugs and changes that you endured so I would go back to the original doses of omega 3 and magnesium. I think you should wait longer to be sure you are stabilised before starting the prozac taper. If withdrawal is breking through when you reduce omega 3 and magnesium you are still not recovered. Starting to taper prozac will set you back. You have been doing well and your body is still healing from all those drugs. There is no rush, the important thing is that you keep stable, you will get off the prozac eventually but now is not the right time to start tapering. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by mammaP

[baroquep]

Hi Viper73, When trying to get off of anti-depressants, I think one of the most important things for the body is consistency, in other words keeping your central nervous system stable on a daily basis.  From my own experience, I have found that making any drastic changes will upset my central nervous system and inevitably cause me difficultly with my taper.  If I were you, I would take the omega 3 and magnesium every day.

 

I would also recommend that you be very careful when reducing prozac as you have had a history of difficulty getting off of anti-depressants in the past.  Surviving Antidepressants recommends reducing 10% of current dose with holds of at least four weeks before your next reduction.  I would not reduce 1mg every month and I believe you will run into trouble, particularly as you go down in dose.  

I am attaching a PDF of a schedule that will help you determine the amount of the drop every month.  This schedule is not written in stone as you may find that you need to make smaller reductions as you get lower on your dose.  Prozac seems to be one of the easier drugs to withdrawal from because of its long half-life, but that doesn't mean that you won't experience difficulty as you get toward the end of your taper, so be prepared to drop less than 10% as you get lower on your dose.  

 

As well, in Toronto there are compounding pharmacies that can help you with your taper by preparing your prescriptions every month based on a 10% (or less) reduction.  If I were you, I'd look into finding a compounding pharmacy so you don't have to worry about preparing your monthly prescriptions yourself.  I have my prescription prepared every month at Guardian Drugs at Yonge and Davisville.  I found that I was not able to reduce 10% per month and have to go a lot slower than some, so I reduce at 5% per month and sometimes hold for an extra month if the withdrawal symptoms are causing me issues.  I plan on taking 10 years to come off of these drugs as I would like to minimize the withdrawal symptoms and have a good quality of life while I taper off.  I encourage you to go slowly, it is the best insurance to getting off of these drugs safely and to minimize withdrawal symptoms.  Take as long a time as you need.

Please note that I am not a moderator but am trying to help you based on my own experiences.  I know that there is a lot of information on this site to digest, but would encourage you to read as much as you can about how to reduce anti-depressants safely and responsibly so that you can minimize the potential difficulties along the way. 

 

Am sure that an experienced moderator will be able to help you further.  

 

Dose 10% estimator - Viper73.pdf

[JanCarol]

On 05/08/2017 at 8:47 PM, viper73 said:

Hi I have a question, 

I was taking omega 3 (1250mg) and magnesium 50mg every day,

3 weeks ago I decided to take omega 3 every tues, thurs, sat and magnesium every mon, wed, fri, sun

i start to feel very dizziness and nausea for the past 3 weeks.

i am still taking my Prozac 10mg. 

Is it that I am going through windows and waves from Paxil or Ativan or zopiclone 

or because I taking every other days with my omega and magnesium.

next week I will start to drop my Prozac to 9 mg for one month than 8mg for a month

into till I get to 0.

I forgot to mention that I been taking Prozac 10mg for 1 year now.

thx any help will do

 

Hey Viper - 

 

It sounds like you need to take omega 3 and magnesium every day and not skip doses.

 

Skipping doses may have triggered your withdrawal symptoms.

 

Supplements are important, and omega3 and mag are very important for healing.  Omega3 lubricates your nervouse system, coats the myelin sheath, makes nerves fire more smoothly.  Magnesium is involved in over 200 complex cascades in the body - helps with everything.  If cannot afford the supplement, it is better to take less every day - break or cut the capsules - but take the same amount every day.  Taking every other day has obviously upset your system.

 

MammaP and baroquep seem to feel the same.

 

Now, you should wait  a little longer before tapering.  Wait until your symptoms settle down, on a regular supplement schedule.

 

I hope you see the sun today.

[viper73]

Thank you for help

[viper73]

Hi a little update, I have tapped down to 3.5mg from 10mg of Prozac, I am do a little better, I am go down by 10% every two weeks. I have been sleeping better 6 to 10hrs a day.

i am taking vitamin d, vitamin c, omega3, magnesium. Every time I do a drop my dose, the first few days I feel down and feel like crying, but after that I feel fine. I been go to the gym 5 to 7 times. I work out 2 to 3 hours a day.

[viper73]

Hi, I need to ask a question, when I tapper down I start to feel depressed and want to cry is this normal. 

[WackoSirJacko]

2 hours ago, viper73 said:

Hi, I need to ask a question, when I tapper down I start to feel depressed and want to cry is this normal. 

Hey viper

 

Yes, it is. After every drop your brain has to adjust to the new level of drug. Symptoms will come after a few days and then slowly subside as your CNS adjusts. 

 

Keep in mind that it is the withdrawal and not you. Think of it as a positive thing. Your brain is stopping using a tiny bit of the drug and has to wait for some regrowth. 

 

Do you do CBT? If you dwell on it and ruminate you can make it worse. Just turn that rumination into positive rumination. Your brain will automatically scan for problems in your life because the depression in your subconcious is sending a signal to your concious mind to find a problem and thus a resolution. Try your best to just flow with the depression KNOWING FOR SURE that it will subside. Because it will subside. That's just a bit of CBT which reframes your thoughts and helps you recover quicker.

 

 

[viper73]

Thank you so much for explaining it to me.

I am in just a low mood right now. I am going to tell myself this shell pass. When I am getting down to 2mg of Prozac, I am going to do every 3 weeks 10% drop instead off every 2 weeks 10% drop, right now I am at 3.16mg of Prozac 

[viper73]

Hi I have another question can I go and get acupuncture while I tapering my Prozac or should I wait till I finish my tapper

[ChessieCat]

This is SA's topic:

 

Acupuncture - Posts #6 & #8 (not detox or stimulation)

[viper73]

Hi a little update, I am at 2mg of Prozac right now. I just starting to cry. I been tapping for 8 month now from 10mg. Also I was on Paxil 20 mg for 22 years, I tapper the Paxil and I crash 2 times before I went on to Prozac 20mg for 1 month and then I went to 10mg and also I take zopiclone 15mg for 3 month and ativan 2mg for 3month too. My doctor told me to quit cold turkey zopicalone and I tapper the Ativan for 6 weeks. That was like 1 and a half year ago. So right now I only on Prozac 2mg. Should I stop taking Prozac now it’s only 2 mg or should I tapper 10% every 2 weeks. I really need your help please

[ChessieCat]

It would be better to reduce by 10% every 4 weeks, not every 2 weeks.  Keep Notes on Paper and if you start feeling symptoms, hold for longer and then consider reducing by less than 10%.

 

Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

 

Please update your signature Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.  Thank you.

 

Edited April 5, 2018 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

[viper73]

Hi Chessiecat, 

 

Thanks for your reply, when I crash on Paxil I starting to have very bad insomnia, panic attack, crying spells, suicidal homicidal thoughts

 

When I got down to Prozac 2mg I don’t have bad insomnia no more,

 

I don’t have panic attack not that much  either .

 

My bad thoughts come and goes.

 

when I tapper Prozac I cry only 3 to 5 times for only last 20 seconds(Paxil crash I was crying 1 to 5 times a day for 2 mins to 20 mins for 3 months).

 

So I don’t know if I am doing better. So I should Stabilize on 2mg and hold it for 4 weeks and start tapper 10% every 4 weeks.

 

 

[viper73]

Hi, 

I need help please, I don't know is it withdrawals  from the prozac 2.01mg that I taking right now or am I having a wave from Ativan or Zopiclone that the doctor make me quit cold turkey 20 months ago. I am crying a lot for 2 weeks now. I didn't sleep tonight and I am have bad thoughts too. I don't know what to do. I feel like giving up. I have two kids and a wife I love a lot.

My symptoms from Paxil poop out, Zopiclone and Ativan that I quit cold turkey:
Insomnia - 1yr and 3 months after that I slept good for 6 months
Panic attack - 3 months. I don't have it now
Mourning anxiety - 1yr. I don't have it now
General  anxiety - come and go
Crying - 3 months. Didn't cry for 15 months but now I start to cry 3 weeks ago
Bad thoughts - come and go 
Nausea - first 6 month bad, come and go now
Dizzy spells -  come and go
Blurry vision - come and go
Headache - come and go
Body twitching - come and go
Body shaking - come and go
Memory problems - come and go
Brain fog - come and go
lots of sweat  - 3 months. Gone now

And every time I use any electronic I get depressed, anxiety, anger, very bad nausea and blurry vision.

 Please help thx

[viper73]

Hi, 

i really need your help today I break down and cry so hard that I scare my family, I think I am suicidal, right now I am on 1.63mg of prozac, tomorrow I will go down to 1.47mg. I try 5htp 50mg 2 times a day for 12 days it didn't work for me so I try cbd oil  6 day ago. Today I fell really bad. So I am going to stop cbd oil. I was crying like 6 time in 10 months  when I try to wean my self of prozac from 10mg to 1.63mg my crying I could handle but the cbd make my crying worse. Should I stay on 1.47mg for aleast 3 to 6 month to stabilized before I tapper again. I think I tapper to fast 10% every 2 weeks from 10mg to 1.64mg. When I get  stabilize at 1.47mg of prozac and than I will tapper 10% every 4 to 6 weeks. So right now I am not going to take 5htp or cbd oil, I will only take prozac 1.47mg,  omega 3, vitamin c, vitamin d and  magnesium only. I do not want to go to the hospital, if I go to the hospital, my old doctor  will drug me up big time. He told me he want to up my prozac to 80mg and put me on  Ativan 4mg and high does of sleeping pills.

[Petunia]

Hi Viper,

I'm sorry to hear that you are having another wave of bad symptoms. After reading through your thread, it looks to me like you have been tapering too fast, especially now that you are at a low dose. As the dose gets lower, many people have to slow the taper down in order to avoid symptoms.

 

Taking 5htp and cbd oil may also have contributed to this wave. Its best to avoid trying lots of different supplements when tapering, they can often cause paradoxical effects in a sensitized nervous system. The only ones we recommend are magnesium and fish oil, but some people can't even tolerate these.

 

Whenever you get an increase in symptoms, you need to stop tapering and let your nervous system settle down. It would have been better if you had done this last month rather than continuing to taper, but as you didn't receive a response to your post, I can understand why you might have continued tapering.

 

In general, it sounds like you are doing fairly well this time, but you do need to slow down and consider longer holds in between your cuts. I agree that stopping your taper for now would be a good idea. Hold where you are until your symptoms settle down again. I don't know how long it will take, so I can't say how long you should hold for, but a good general guide is to wait until you have been symptom free for a week and then wait at least another month before you begin tapering again.

 

When you do start tapering again, I would drop down to making 5% cuts, and see how that goes. Let your symptom pattern guide you, more symptoms which last longer mean you need to make smaller cuts and have longer holds.

You may have to hold at your current dose for 6 months, or longer, but it doesn't matter, its better to be able to continue to function in your life and get off the drugs later rather than sooner. A low dose of one drug is safer than crashing and being put on 3 new drugs at high doses.

[viper73]

Thx, I have go down to 1.47mg of prozac because I have no more 1.63mg left,  should I get more 1.63mg or should I go up too 1.80mg

[brassmonkey]

I would get more of the 1.63mgai and then do what Petunia says and hold there for at least six months.

[viper73]

I have stop taking my Prozac 1.67 mg for 1 week already, I hope I don’t have any withdrawal, wish me luck, if I do I will be Prepared. I have to stop taking Prozac because I have a lot of problems with it. 

[Altostrata]

Please let us know how you're doing.

[viper73]

I am doing ok. I am little depressed and having anxiety.   I have a question,  I don’t know if i am suicidal or not? I don’t think of suicide at all? When I cry hard I don’t know what I am doing or saying. I say stupid things like I want to die. it only lasts a few mins. After the crying is done I don’t feel suicidal anymore.  I didn’t cry for two weeks already.