Nicki1722: Effexor withdrawal

[Altostrata]

[Nicki1722]

After taking one bead yesterday I felt better within a couple hours. Along with fatigue that the Effexor loves to give me. I plan to stay put and hope for the best. However, the good times don't usually last too long. Why is it that I always feel good initially after a medication reduction or increase then s**t hits the fan?

[dowdaller]

I call it the honeymoon period, but you know the s#!t is in post.Im sending you positive vibes. I hope you get some peace soon.

[Shep]

After taking one bead yesterday I felt better within a couple hours. Along with fatigue that the Effexor loves to give me. I plan to stay put and hope for the best. However, the good times don't usually last too long. Why is it that I always feel good initially after a medication reduction or increase then s**t hits the fan?

 

Hi, Nicki.

 

Part of that is just the natural course of withdrawal. And part of it is the fact that you've rattled your CNS over the past couple of months with supplements like Deproloft HF, you mentioned drinking lots of coffee, trying hydroxyzine, as well as mentioning the use of alcohol back in May.

 

I think if you get settled into a really slow and careful taper, learn some non-drug methods of coping with anxiety, and really shelter your CNS, you'll have a much smoother ride. 

[Nicki1722]

Thanks Shep. But will I hit a dose that I finally become stable on? I feel like I would eventually get to a point that I can stabilize but it usually only lasts a day or two. I plan on waiting a good week or more and, if I get worse as I had before do I increase again? I'm guessing I do since I'm really just desperate to get stable again.

[ang]

Hi Nicki, effexor is horrible to get off of, gosh you are doing well.

 

I find with my med cuts, yes I also feel better for a couple of days, so I make the most of it, usually by cleaning the kitchen floor, then it stays that way again, for another month!

 

So I guess honeymoon for a few days, is a good description. I hope you can just stick with the effexor (better the devil you know, than the devil you dont with these drugs). Sounds like

you are on the right track now.

[Nicki1722]

My problem is that I'm not doing med cuts right now. I'm increasing instead because I can't get stable! I'm tying to find that happy place but am wondering if I'll ever find it.

[Nicki1722]

Hi Nicki, effexor is horrible to get off of, gosh you are doing well.I find with my med cuts, yes I also feel better for a couple of days, so I make the most of it, usually by cleaning the kitchen floor, then it stays that way again, for another month!So I guess honeymoon for a few days, is a good description. I hope you can just stick with the effexor (better the devil you know, than the devil you dont with these drugs). Sounds likeyou are on the right track now.

Thank you. I feel like I eventually will find a certain number of beads that will keep the really bad symptoms at bay and let me stabilize before I even worry about any more decreases. I can handle some symptoms but when I literally feel like I'm dying is when I have a problem. Or if I'm unable to work. Or if I can't go anywhere from anxiety lol.

[Nicki1722]

Just an update. After increasing the Effexor to 13 beads on Sunday I noticed a marked decrease in symptoms quickly. After looking back I also noticed that my jaw rigidity and anxiety decreased significantly as well. However, as the days progress I notice that the symptoms are coming back. Should I go up another bead tomorrow (to 14 beads)if the symptoms continue to escalate?

[Altostrata]

Yes, you might consider adding a bead. You'll have to listen to your body to determine what to do.

[Nicki1722]

That's a good response. Body says add for sure.

[Nicki1722]

I did yet another increase by one bead yesterday and did not notice any drastic improvement in symptoms as I had before with the one bead increase. I do believe the anxiety decreased a bit but otherwise I just got tired! Today I'm lethargic and am dragging at work. Still have a few scalp tinglies. But overall I'm so so tired.

[Nicki1722]

And then within an hour anxiety!

[Nicki1722]

My PCP really is pushing me to go back to my dose of 37.5mg. So yesterday I did a "test jump" up in dose to see how my body reacted. It did not react well. I took 20 beads (had been at 15 beads) and wow did I feel awful. Anxiety, brain overstimulation, lights seemed very vivid and bright and everything very sharp but it was really intense, I had energy but more of a drug addict on cocaine energy, did I say anxiety? Lol. Definitely think I'll stay at my blah state on 15 beads. Does this mean I'm officially sensitized to Effexor? Sure feels like it.

 

On another note it's so weird feeling half decent but then my brain plays tricks on me. I ruminate and ruminate over how I feel when, in reality I'm better than I was. I remember just a few days ago feeling like I was in a little bit of a window but it's like I completely forget about the good days when I'm feeling bad. Also, I am constantly in a blah state. I basically can't think for myself. I can't make decisions about what to do. I want to be able to drive to my parents house (1.5 hours away) but then I'm too tired to make the trip. It's like being stuck in limbo. I can remember when I had a stretch of being off Effexor for a month my symptoms were absolutely horrible but I at least could go drive and make decisions. Now I can't. Any thoughts on this?

[scallywag]

What works for me is to make a plan that is several days off so that I'm not making a decision on how I'm feeling at the moment.  When the time arises sometimes I have to cajole myself, "Just do what you said you were going to do. It's never as hard as you think."

 

Are there any enjoyable places to stop on the way to your parents?  I've started taking a back road route that has lots of lush farming. It's lovely to drive through and not to fight all the traffic on the major highways. Plan lots of time, take 1 or 2 breaks on the way, have good music.

[Nicki1722]

A couple questions. I've noticed that if I try to take naps I get anxiety out of nowhere! I will wake up with chest heaviness when I had no anxiety laying down. Also, I occasionally get extremely fatigued after eating. I feel like my body can't handle processing the food I just ate. And it's completely unrelated to what I eat or when. Could anyone relate to this or explain to me what is going on?

[Shep]

Hi, Nicki.

 

I'm not sure about the anxiety caused by naps, but I've come across problems after eating. Alto describes it here: 

 

 

 

I'm thinking somehow our systems naturally send out neurological signals for digestion and with our already intense neuro-sensitivity it may trigger some adrenaline for some people.

Yes, this is probably it -- when we eat, our systems call up a lot of hormones to help with the process. Most of our serotonin is in the gut to help with digestion!

The change in status, and tendency for the nervous system to slow down during digestion, probably causes these strange reactions.

I've seen this reported before in withdrawal syndrome; it does go away after a while. It probably indicates very high withdrawal-induced sensitivity.

Pushing the system with sugar and caffeine, though, is not a good idea. These are definitely neuroactive.

 

 

 

You may be interested in reading the entire thread:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2840-eating-as-an-activating-factor-increasing-anxiety-or-symptoms/

 

It seems to be very common during withdrawal. I had it really bad after my Seroquel jump, but it doesn't happen a lot any more. So it's temporary. 

 

I hope this information helps. 

 

[Nicki1722]

Thank you. I figured it was something like that. So crazy.

[Nicki1722]

Hey all. Just a quick update. I've been holding at 14 beads going on second week now after a failed attempt to increase to 20 beads. Seem to be stabilizing but the extreme fatigue is very frustrating. I'm also getting anxiety occasionally and am unmotivated all the time. Nausea has been an issue today for some reason. Hoping that the fatigue will let up eventually because it's exhausting, no pun intended. Any suggestions on how to get over this fatigue? And I can't nap because i get anxiety. Yet I am able to sleep at night just fine. Very perplexing.

[Nicki1722]

After having to have emergency surgery over the weekend I'm back to square one I feel like. My head is spacey and scatter brained, I'm anxious, can't see or think straight, jaw rigidity. Please tell me this will get better!

[scallywag]

Nicki -- everyone feels rotten after surgery. Both the procedure and the anesthesia do a number on us.  Often the medical staff will let you know what complications require immediate medical attention. If they haven't, ask. Should one of those things occur, get medical attention.  People recovery from surgery. Your symptoms will resolve with time.

[Nicki1722]

Thanks SW. I was doing half decent, despite being lethargic and having some anxiety, then had to have that emergency surgery over the weekend. Now I'm back to having withdrawal symptoms. It's just so frustrating because I thought I was over this hump! And I know my symptoms will resolve, just had a moment and needed to get grounded again. Roll with the punches I guess.

[Nicki1722]

Hi all. I'm noticing a pattern. When I have really bad withdrawal symptoms mentally (brain fog and fuzziness, not being able to see correctly, unable to concentrate and think correctly/process information) and anxiety I at least have energy and motivation. It may be nervous anxious energy but I can keep moving.. However, once these symptoms subside and calm down my energy level plummets along with my motivation. Is this supposed to improve over time? Should I begin tapering again? I just read a thread about someone who reacted poorly to magnesium, causing them to feel fatigued. Should I only take it as needed instead of everyday? I wonder if that is too calming and making me tired once my symptoms subside. Also, the fatigue does not improve and I have not had any "waves or Windows" in terms of the fatigue.

[scallywag]

Has the pattern changed post-surgery?

[Nicki1722]

No this happened before surgery. I was feeling pretty normal despite some random anxiety but so exhausted. Then had the surgery which stirred up my symptoms horribly and now I'm settling back into having my symptoms calmed down and being exhausted once again.

[scallywag]

I'd wait to reduce dose until at least 4 weeks after the surgery. Be gentle with yourself.

[JanCarol]

Hey Nicki (fellow Buckeye!)

 

First of all, you seem to go in a tailspin every time you have symptoms.  

 

Then you change something.

 

Then 2 weeks later, you go into a new tailspin when you have new symptoms.

 

Then you change something.

 

Then 2 weeks later (rinse and repeat).

 

Ignoring your prior attempts at Lexapro and Prozac (what I would call "cold switches") here are the things you've reported here on your thread:

 

(updosed to 18.75 2 weeks prior to this May 7)

2 weeks later = increased by 5 beads and quit Deproloft, Vit D, Magnesium, and probiotics

2 weeks later - back down to 18.75

June 3 - did crossfit!

June 6-13 - tried Prozac bridge again (cold switch)

June 15 - reinstated Effexor, "messing with number of beads I take"

June 16 - 11 mg / 13 beads

June 30 - 11 beads

July 4 - had some brewskis

July 5 - tried hydroxyzine

July 10 - increased 1 bead to 13 (when did you go to 12?)

July 14 - increased 1 bead to 14 (with no benefit like other updoses)

July 31 - test dose of 20 beads, reacted badly.

Aug 1 - back to 15 beads 

 

So you see - you have made consistent changes every 2 weeks, and the benefits you are getting from those changes are outweighed by the symptoms they cause just 2 weeks later.

 

You write:

I feel like I eventually will find a certain number of beads that will keep the really bad symptoms at bay and let me stabilize before I even worry about any more decreases.

 

You need to live through a set of symptoms, survive it - and hold - for 2 months or more.  Stop fiddling with your doses!  Every time you change, you send another 'bounce' to the brain that equals symptoms - 2-4 weeks or longer out.

 

You need to weigh the cost of the "perfect dose" against paying the price for making a change.

 

Changes in dosages are hard on your long term recovery.  If you can hold past your symptoms, instead of changing something every 2 weeks, then you will start to see a difference.

 

Learn what the symptoms could be, so that you don't fall into health anxiety over them.  Here is a list of the most common symptoms of withdrawal.  You can even print out enough to track your regular progress over time, and watch the symptoms morph and change - improve in some areas, and surprise you in others.  But you will see many of your symptoms on this list:

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's Most Common symptoms of Withdrawal

 

I have more to say, but I want you to look at your calendar, and look at your thread, and see if what I am saying:  making frequent changes is causing problems for you down the road, consistently (I would say every time!)

 

I hope you see the sun today!

[JanCarol]

Hey Nicki!

 

You wrote:

 

I think that's half the reason I'm so fed up. I've come off of 300mg of Effexor around 2010 (?) and did fine for about 4 months then had a very depressive episode while in school. 

 

Yes, but just because you did it before, doesn't mean you can do it every time.

 

Changing these drugs - going on or off - is like sticking your hand in the badger hole.  You might come away 1, 2, or even 3 times without harm or injury - but the more you stick your hand in the badger hole, the more you increase your chances of harm.

 

You wrote earlier:

 

As for other reasons for being fatigued I have had all the tests run to ensure I was not having other problems. My vitamin d was low and I've been taking synthroid for hypothyroidism since high school but otherwise all labs were normal. I've been taking vitamin d 5000u since approximately January. 

 

You may be interested to know that many of the Evidence Based Medicine (functional medicine and natural doctors) think that many thyroid disorders are the real cause of many diagnoses.

 

Fluoride is an "anti-thyroid" medication - it was used effectively as such well before they put it in the water.  Too many people are "naturally hypothyroid."

 

Here is what Dr. Kelly Brogan says about it:

http://kellybroganmd.com/thyroid-whats-mental-health-got/

 

 

So my question is when am I "stable?"

 

When you have been on the same dose for 3 months, and start to notice improvements.  When you have survived symptoms, and realise that if you do nothing, make no changes you get better.

There is no "magic perfect dose" of your drug.  You will probably have some symptoms at all levels right now.  In fact your last updose provided less benefit than the updose before it.  That tells me you are close to "as good as it gets," and that now a long hold is what your brain needs - 

 

to rest

to heal

to rebuild from all of the bounces it has had in the past year - the past 5 years.

 

You said it yourself, here:

 

Also, I'm thinking that not messing with my doses of ANYTHING is contributing to my little bit of success. 

 

But you were only to sustain that "no change" state for about 2 weeks.

 

Then you wrote:

 

I was thinking the other night of why I'm not able to accept my symptoms and deal with them instead of fighting them. I'm constantly doing this or trying this or stepping up my Effexor or trying another supplement. My mom called me out and said that I'm afraid of accepting the symptoms because I'm afraid that if I accept them they won't go away. She is completely right! 

 

The fact is, the opposite is true - your mom is right.  Fighting the symptoms takes energy, is draining (and may be one of the causes of your fatigue.  If you accept the symptoms, and are able to say, like Chessie suggested, "Oh, it's just a symptom.  Silly things get in the way all the time, but they're just symptoms.  They will pass."

 

Then, you come out the other side, and understand better how the process works.  You, instead, have made a change at every wave.   Waves and Windows

 

 

I've tried restorative yoga and meditation to calm myself and haven't noticed a whole lot of improvement.

 

This is an awesome thing to do!  Sometimes it will work better than others - but if you build up to a regular practice, it will work better and better.  

 

The good thing about these - is also in the KSSS principle - is that as you build up a practice, you build a bank of improvement upon which to build.  Doing it every now and then is less effective than doing it regularly.  It doesn't have to be daily - I do my yoga weekly now, and then just stretch or restore as required.  But it's regular, I always have my time on the mat. 

 

A regular practice is like a savings account.  You may only be saving pennies a week - but after awhile it starts to increase exponentially, and regular practice is much more effective at "building your bank account" of health, presence of mind, mindfulness, concentration - all good things.

 

It may not stop your symptoms right away - but the more you do it, the more you regain control over your symptoms.

 

You complained of symptoms, saying that:

 

 I haven't changed anything in 2 weeks

 

Ask me about your symptoms again when you haven't changed anything - anything at all! for at least TWO MONTHS.  I'll bet you will find that you will be calmer, more stable, more in control of your symptoms and situation.

 

You seem to be looking at this as a day-to-day thing, when really, you should be looking at months, not days and weeks.

 

Scally suggested:

 

 

What works for me is to make a plan that is several days off so that I'm not making a decision on how I'm feeling at the moment.  When the time arises sometimes I have to cajole myself, "Just do what you said you were going to do. It's never as hard as you think."

 

I did it by filling weekly trays.  I took exactly what was in the tray, no more, no less (you can use gelcaps) and it helps me keep my supplements the same, too.  I fill a month at a time now - so there is never more than 1 change to my regime in a month.

 

You ask: 

 

But will I hit a dose that I finally become stable on?

You have hit it.  When you updosed to your present dose, you noticed no improvement.  It's time to stop updosing, and time to stop fiddling with supplements - keep them the same every day, and keep your dose the same every day - for at least 2 months.

 

If you feel good at 2 months, then wait another month to make sure the Effexor isn't going to sneak up on you from behind before you taper again.

 

I hope you see the sun today.

[Nicki1722]

Hey JC. Yes I agree I have figured out finally that I have to sit with my current dose of medicine and supplements. I'm beginning to stabilize out and do have symptoms that come and go daily. I never have two days in a row that I feel the absolute same. I had a month where I did absolutely no changes but had debilitating fatigue. It seemed that, for the most part, my symptoms were under control other than that. However, with symptoms changing daily I feel like I'm constantly walking on eggshells. I did make a change yesterday of stopping the magnesium in the morning because I think it was making me tired! I noticed that my energy level was better throughout the day. I'm curious to see how I'll feel here in a few weeks without it

 

After going through so much these past few months I'm finally at the point that I KNOW (from experience) that these symptoms will change and morph. It's almost like the stages of grief for me: having to accept that I may not feel well for quite awhile but things will get better and it will be worth it. When I first got on this site my CNS was in such a state of disarray and destabilization. I would never wish any of that on my worst enemy. It's like being thrown into psych overdrive and not being able to do a damn thing about it. My surgery really threw my symptoms Ito a whirlwind but knowing it would get better was a relief. And it only took a few days.

[Nicki1722]

Sorry, I want to add a few things now that I'm not sitting at work haha. I don't know why i just have to sometimes go through things myself and "learn the hard way." I'm not usually like that but, despite everyone telling me to stop messing with doses, I was determined that I would get back to 100% at some point.

 

But now I know, after having explored EVERY avenue, I'm going to have to sit here for awhile and ultimately get off Effexor. When this all started my goal was not to get off of it. I started messing around with doses and trying different meds because I ultimately think I had a paradoxical reaction to Effexor in the face of high stress and began having side effects from it. In the beginning I just wanted to feel like myself.

 

After trying different meds and changing doses and yadda yadda yadda I knew it was time. I believe God has a plan for everyone and a reason for everything. If I didn't think this way I would go nuts. I am very open to everyone about what I'm going through because I've accepted it. I wonder how many people have been where I am and felt helpless thinking they were the "odd one out." Then I find this website and feel for once like I'm not alone.

 

Gosh I'm kind of rambling today lol. And honestly I went through the stages of grief when this started. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance (well kinda skipped the depression one). Looking back I can see that for sure.

 

Anyways, I'll keep popping my head in here and giving updates. Thank you everyone that so far that has helped me. I'm hard headed and stubborn as you can see but I finally figured it out. Now to wait for the symptoms to level out more.

Edited August 25, 2016 by scallywag
inserted paragraph breaks

[Nicki1722]

Hi all. Just was wanting some input. My fatigue/lethargy is awful. Is this likely to get better as I hold at 14 beads? I notice that when my brain symptoms calm down I get so tired. Since originally I began switching meds BECAUSE of fatigue I'm wondering if it's from the Effexor. Im hoping that it'll let up one day. This is miserable! Furthermore, I think I've officially gone through my first window and wave. The wave was preceded by increased stress from being on call at work. It lasted about 5 days. Prior to the wave I was feeling half decent, just super tired. I'm hoping this is a sign things are normalizing?

[Nicki1722]

And another question- can birth control make anxiety and withdrawal symptoms worse?

[scallywag]

Nicki, it's barely a month since you had emergency surgery.  That is probably at play in addition to whatever effect the Effexor is having.  It's difficult to predict how long any symptom will last.

 

The CNS, endocrine (thyroid, adrenals, ovaries/testes, etc.) and immune systems are highly interconnected. It is possible that a particular formulation of oral contraceptive could have psycho-neuro effects.

[dowdaller]

Hey nicki you are doing really well holding at 14, my advice would be to sit at 14 till you stabilise, if you start feeling terrible just see it out. I know its easier said than done, it will pass. You are doing the right with the slow taper. This will stand you in good stead when you come off it completly. Wheat grass is good for boosting energy but can heighten anxiety. Just remember your brain is fixing itself that why you are suffering these symtoms.

[Edie]

Hi!

 

I just wanted to let you know that I have the same problem with effexor - I have extreme fatigue. I've been on 18 mg for 15 days now and I just barely function. I would just sleep all the time if I could. I got this problem already few years ago with effexor - that is why I wanted to get off. I have done tons of lab tests and all of them are fine. It is the effexor. I've found that eating a gluten and milk free diet has helped a little bit. Also green smoothies and walks every day. Supplements that I have found really helpful in effexor WD are omega 3 (this really helped me with the brain zaps and shivers), magnesium and vit D (for energy - we don't have much sun in Estonia).

[KarenB]

This thread has some useful info:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2011-hormone-pills-birth-control-causing-relapse/  Birth control hormones definitely affect w/d.

 

I was getting extremely tired on effexor when I was tapering too fast for my system.  I've mostly sorted it by doing an 8 month hold and taking gentle iron supplements from a herbal shop.  If I reduce to quickly, exhaustion is the first symptom to rear it's head.