chrona: in bad shape, can't think, can't cope, help needed

[chrona]

thanks,  i understand what you are saying about the tryptophan and serotonin.  i did read a few threads tonight about taurine however.  it sounds wonderful,  though would that be exempt from the neurotransmitter concept?  i have no idea.  

no b vitamins for me right now.  

 

is it important to always take the same dosage?  some sites i read prior to finding sa,  had people who w/d by dropping down their middle of the day dose.   i followed that for a while updosing at night to get decent sleep.  what is the thinking?

 

there are some people on this list who have w/d lyrica or gaba but they all seem to be taking so many other drugs too that the situation seems quite different.  the symptomology just has to be different.   plus they are mostly gone so i can't compare notes with anyone. 

 

i am really isolated in this.

 

apologies for spellcheck. do your best.

[Shep]

Many people find their results on melatonin is related to dose. Also, it can turn paradoxical. With a sensitive nervous system, it's best to use a very small dose, as mentioned here:

 

Melatonin for Sleep

 

Note Altostrata's comment: "Large doses of melatonin do NOT aid sleep -- they might cause your oversensitive brain to wake up, instead."

 

It's best to only add in only supplement at a time and start at a very low dose. And then give your system time to adjust to the change. 

 

Your own mind and body are going to guide you on this, so it's important to write down your symptoms once you add in a new supplement or remove one. For some supplements, like melatonin, there are specific guidelines as to when to take it. These are listed in the melatonin link I just provided. 

 

Your use of clonazepam is likely making your insomnia and your memory problems worse because in your signature, you mention that you're beginning to take more. What dose are you currently at now? How do you feel after taking it? These are very important questions because clonazepam dependency is most likely playing a large role in your current symptoms. If you can let us know when you're taking it and the dose, that will help us help you. 

 

I would again urge you to be much more careful with both medications as well as supplements, taking care to take the right dose and write down every time you take anything. Or have a friend or family member help you. As an online forum, we can only do so much.  

 

[chrona]

is anyone here currently tapering gabapentin or lyrics?  i would like to get in touch. 

[chrona]

shep,   i am taking 1mg of klonopin.   i have tapered it before with no problem.   since the last post,  i have gotten strict with myself about only taking it at night.  there is no way i am going to taper that now.   

 

i woke up late this morning and drank what i thought was my dosage prepared the night before.  i went back to sleep for an hour and woke up in extreme withdrawals.  i took a whole pill 300 mg.   i have been in withdrawals all day despite taking my full dosage.   the withdrawals i experience have gotten intolerable.  i am pretty macho but this experience is beyond enduring.  so now 3 and a half months of suffering and effort down the drain.  i don't see how i am going to get off this stuff. 

i guess my nervous system is totally screwed up.  

 

oddly, coffee was the one thing that made me feel human for a while. 

 

still in pretty intense but tolerable withdrawal at 8:30 pm.  forget about having a life.  i have been on the sofa all day trying to distract myself.

[Shep]

Hi, Chrona. 

 

Thank you for that important information on Klonopin and letting us know you're at a consistent dose now. I also have come off benzos in the past seemingly without many problems, but the fact that I ended up back on them at a later date makes me wonder. Also, after you come off and on these drugs or have really rapid changes in doses, it can cause a "kindling" effect. This is a really great thread explaining this:

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

It helped me understand why I got so much sicker this time than in the past when I'd come off my meds. Your comment "I guess my nervous system is totally screwed up" is spot on. Many of us on this forum are dealing with having a super sensitive nervous system now. 

 

You mention coffee helping for awhile, but in the long run, the caffeine may have been adding to the hyper sensitivity. 

 

Even though you're struggling a lot now, you're getting the information on the dangers of certain supplements, how to do a more precise Gabapentin taper, and to keep the Klonopin at a consistent dose. So you're getting the tools you need to get back on track.

 

I think if you can dose consistently, keep careful track of your symptoms so you'll know when to make changes, and keep the supplements to the minimum, you'll start to see some improvements in the future. It will get better. 

 

Here are a couple of resources for keeping up with your symptoms. 

 

Rate symptoms daily to track patterns and progress

 

Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's withdrawal symptom checklist

 

[chrona]

 i am kindled.  i came off too fast initially even though it was tons slower than most people on other forums, then my schedule being variable which before i started tapering didn't bother me a bit,  REALLY did me in yesterday.  i had to go back to my original dosage and it still didn't help.  then took an extra dose. 

i am a mess,  and terrified i will never got off this nightmare.  i am going down only 1% of my dosage today and i still am having withdrawal. 

 

before yesterday,  i was up, taking daily walks, tending to my garden, seeing people a bit.  now i am on the sofa and the idea of a walk is out of the question.

and all that happened was that i took a dose late.

 

not sure any one understands this... i will take anything in reach that will alleviate the suffering when the w/d are that bad... even if it's coffee, or taking my original dosage,  more than the original dosage.    it can be that bad.   i have read all the gaba threads i can find and i seem to have it worse.

i know i sound dramatic but the illness i have affects the nervous system anyway.  damn,  that's why i was on this drug, to help.

 

i am wondering if clonidine can help. 

[scallywag]

chrona, I'm sorry you're feeling so poorly.  Many people here at SA share your difficult situation and desire to do or take anything to get out of it.
 
If there was anything that would effectively make your withdrawal symptoms resolve overnight (or even over a week or fortnight) we'd tell you.
 
If your nervous system is hypersensitive but not constructively responsive, i.e. kindled, the best thing you can do is to make very small changes taking very long holds after each change. 
 
JanCarol has posted a great analogy comparing our psych drug(s) to a bear or wolf in the wild. You probably should also consider a sensitized CNS as another wild beast in the stand-off:
 

Hey Simack -

Think of the Saphris (or any drug for that matter) as a wolf or a bear.

When you are in the wild and you encounter one of these things, the FIRST thing you must do is: KEEP CALM. (yeah, I know, the meme and all, but it's true) The next thing you do is DON'T MOVE!

If it is a total standoff and you want to get away, you CANNOT run. It's you and the bear. If you run, the bear and wolf have a hard-wired instinct to chase, and you will lose.

The goal in a standoff with a bear is to sneak.

That's what a taper is. Sneaking away from the wolf. You've seen a cat stalk - it waits until the prey is not looking, then moves a bit (maybe 10%?) then it waits. And waits. And waits. Holding will save your life, when you are in a standoff with a bear. And Saprhis and olanzapine are a bear and a wolf respectively!

Before, you dropped your berries and ran away, and the bear caught up to you. Didn't work.

The goal is to sneak the drug out of your system sooooooo slowly that your brain hardly notices it's gone. And doesn't chuck a wobbly like before.

You will restabilize to a level of functionality and symptoms that will be your withdrawal normal. As dosage is reduced slowly and carefully, withdrawal normal often gradually improves over time.

 

As you deal with this, it may help you to find other ways to describe your situation.  Strong derogatory assessments of our condition and negative projections about the future tend to make us feel worse than we already do. I'm not suggesting that you pretend to be Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farms and live as miraculously ideal fantasy is real, only that the dark doomy and gloomy words are equally based in imagination and passing thoughts. Be gentle with yourself.

[chrona]

clonidine anyone?   could it help a nervous system out of control?  anyone use it?

 

 

sw,  i like the bear analogy,  it seems accurate.  i basically have to give up right now.  go back to original dose.  wait. 

 

i was trying to go down 1% and i wake up a 3am in withdrawal,  that says it all.  i just hope i can calm down with my original dose.  

 

jeez, i wish there were others like me. 

 

sw,thanks for noticing. 

[scallywag]

Clonidine -- the blood pressure medication? 

 

chrona, we don't recommend drugs to deal with the effects of other drugs.

 

Have you looked at: Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

The techniques are effective for cognitive and physical symptoms.

[chrona]

failure.  i hope i can try again sometime, i hope this isn't forever. my body got too messed up and now it won't let me take any off at all.  got to quit.  thanks for the help, guys.

[chrona]

is it possible lamotragine could help with gabapentin withdrawal?   i have had to completely re-instate yet feel very de-stabilized and weird.  i feel better than i did when withdrawing of course.  

my nervous system is very freaked out. 

Edited July 23, 2016 by scallywag
moved from a journal topic -- Harvey, 2003

[scallywag]

chrona, I've moved your post to your Introductions topic because your question is about your specific situation and not about the topic of the thread where you posted.
 
A quick (repeat) answer to your question: We don't recommend drugs to assist with the withdrawal of another drug.
 
For some people, restabilization after reinstatement takes many weeks. Please give yourself some time to settle in to the reinstated dose and for your CNS to get the message that the gabapentin is back.

 

Something to keep in mind: stabilization doesn't always mean no symptoms. Stabilization means that your symptoms aren't swinging wildly.
 
brassmonkey's post on "withdrawal normal"
 
About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

[chrona]

i am tapering .5% right now.  actually it's less than that bc i can't keep it up all day.  ( i dose 6x/ day or every 3 hours).  it is not an a/d,  it's gabapentin for whatever that is worth.  my nervous system was already damaged from a disease,  and the first time i tried this i didn't know about stopping and holding. i got so de-stabilized i had to quit.  so i believe i damaged myself even more by being macho in how i went about it.     even so,  i didn't get to the 10% marker.  nearly so,  maybe 7%.

 

my question relates to how long i should hold.  i was already having breakthrough symptoms at my full dosage,  so i don't think my body will get used to this.  i am wondering if it would be ok to drop down in dosage during the day when i am active and then go back to full dosage.  maybe drop down a couple of times and then go back up.  it's a pretty small margin anyway.  then i can hold that pattern for a long time and hope to get used to it a little.

 

is this a plan? 

[nz11]

chrona i was just reading your post in the tapering thread. (now Post #50 above)

 

I dont know much about gabapentin except for what i have read.

Just been reading through your intro. Im reading that its been pointed out over and over to keep things stable and consistent.

 

Your current plan to alternate the 6 doses during the day goes against the whole protocol of keeping things stable and consistent.

You're no different from others in a sense you are just using a different dosage time-frame. Unless i am missing something that is not a license to alternate dosages during the day.

 

Do you think its a good idea to taper if you aren't currently stable even if its at 5%?

 

I am so sorry you are in this difficult position.

Edited August 7, 2016 by ChessieCat
Note added that post has been moved into Chrona's topic

[chrona]

ok,  i think you are right that i should not taper.  it's pretty discouraging not to be able to taper even .5%.  amazing that so little makes a difference!

it's beginning to look like i will never be free of this.  i wanted so much to make a little progress even if it was in one dose a day.  thanks, i appreciate the response.

[ChessieCat]

chrona i was just reading your post in the tapering thread.

 

 

Hi Chrona,

 

I have moved your post (mentioned by NZ) here into your Intro/Update topic.

[chrona]

the last few days i tried to taper again.  it is so agonizing i think it's not a good idea.   how am i going to get off?   recently had to take vicodin for a tooth problem and i couldn't see the endodontist for a week.  i slept for about 3 days.  i don't know how much gb i took but not much.  i just wonder if something like that is a solution.  i restarted the taper because i though i had a head start from the sleeping.  it doesn't appear so.  i heard about flumenzil.  an answer?

[Altostrata]

Exactly what drugs have you taken in the last 7 days? Please list date, drug, dosage, and time that you took it.

 

Please keep daily notes on paper about your symptoms, when you take your drugs, and their dosages. This is important.

 

How are you feeling now?

[chrona]

8/09   penicillin  500mg 3x vicodin 300mg 3x  gb?

8/10  vicodin  500mg 3x vicodin 300 mg 3x   gb?

8/11 penicillin   500 mg 3x, vicodin 300 mg;  gb? i can't say.   i tried tapering.  it's strange,  even though i may take few pills during the day,  when i take a dose the body wants all 300 mg. ( my normal dose)

    

8/12  penicillin 500 2x, 600 1x, vicodin 300mg 2x;    gb 3x,  9:15 am,  at 1:45 i shook some out of the cap,  at 5:45 full 300 mg.   

 

today i was awake all day and i forgot the 4:45 dose,  which i NEVER did before, up until today my body was screaming for it every 2 and a half hours, unless i was asleep. 

i am beginning to feel withdrawals getting difficult which they had not been,  possibly because i skipped the midday vicodin.  and i am actually awake, not sleeping. 

 

not sure if this is intelligible, i had to correct it a bunch of times.  it's very hard to write. 

[chrona]

i see a mistake already.  alto, you asked for all drugs in the last 7 days. 

 

before tuesday 8/09 i was taking gb 300 mg every 3 hours,  160 mg propranolol every 3 hours. 

[Shep]

 

not sure if this is intelligible, i had to correct it a bunch of times.  it's very hard to write. 

 

 

 

Hi, chrona.

 

You may also be getting some drug interactions, as adding vicodin to the mix interacts with gabapentin and clonazepam. I placed the interaction report below. 

 

Is your tooth fixed now? How long are you supposed to take the vicodin? 

 

Please be very careful with your meds now, as the confusion may be bad for awhile and it's easy to mix up doses and to miss them. 

 

 

Interaction Report: 

 

Moderate

 

clonazepam  hydrocodone

Applies to: Klonopin (clonazepam), Vicodin (acetaminophen / hydrocodone)

Using clonazePAM together with HYDROcodone may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

Moderate hydrocodone  gabapentin

Applies to: Vicodin (acetaminophen / hydrocodone), gabapentin

Using HYDROcodone together with gabapentin may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, confusion, and difficulty concentrating. Some people, especially the elderly, may also experience impairment in thinking, judgment, and motor coordination. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Also avoid activities requiring mental alertness such as driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[JanCarol]

Hey Chrona - 

 

Time of stress - like dental appointments - are no time to taper.

 

You are probably unsettled from the antibiotic and the pain drugs, as well as the dental surgery.  It takes me a week, minimum, to fully recover from a minor procedure, and a major one can take months.  We "recovery people" are slower to bounce back from an "insult" to the system.

 

Please be careful with the pain drugs, as they can destabilize you too.

 

Please hold, wait, and practice Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

[Altostrata]

Do not skip doses of gabapentin. Please keep notes on paper of all your drug intake, when you take the drugs, and their dosages.

[JanCarol]

Hey Chrona, how are you going?

 

Is it a good sign that you haven't been here? Maybe you are having windows?

 

I took some notes on your thread, you have a complicated thing.

 

Nobody here has asked what your original neurological disorder is - and you don't have to answer - but it might help us to know, if you want to tell us.

 

Did you know that the "nerve pain awareness" campaigns are funded by drug companies?  I'm getting ready to post an offensive poster on my thread from a doctor's office - placed there by a pharma company to sell their drug by making people feel miserable about their pain.  I've had some form of neuralgia and nerve pain since I was 25, and episodes even prior to that - but this "nerve pain" thing didn't become a marketable diagnosis until Neurontin came to market - and I believe there were lawsuits for off-label prescribing of it.  BOTH of the major drugs for "nerve pain" are made by Pfizer.

 

The first thing is - gabapentin is a bear to come off of.  But I think it is harder for you because of the clonazepam!

 

Are you taking your clonazepam 1 mg per day as .5 am and .5 mg pm?  THIS is an essential first step to getting you stabilized.  I think you are having breakthrough symptoms when your daily clonazepam wears off.  You can learn more at our Members Only Benzo Forum.  I think the protocol is to take .5 at your regular time daily, and move the .5 by an hour every 2 days until you are split into 2 doses, 12 hours apart.  Clonopin has a half-life of 18-50 hours (it has metabolites that take longer to clear) - but when you reach "poop out" (which you've been on it long enough to have done this) - the effects wear off far too fast.

 

I think that a similar approach to your Gabapentin is warranted.  It has a half life of 5-7 hours.  You may not need to dose 6x a day.  You may be able to change your doses to 4x a day, or 5x a day.  I had a period of my life where I could only ever work out 2-3 doses of anything per day, and when it gets more complicated than that, I make mistakes.  Simpler is always better, and it's vitally important with these drugs to be slow, steady, and stable:  3 KIS's Keep It Simple, Slow, Stable

 

But first look to moving your clonazepam to 2x per day.

 

You asked:  

is it important to always take the same dosage?  some sites i read prior to finding sa,  had people who w/d by dropping down their middle of the day dose.   i followed that for a while updosing at night to get decent sleep.  what is the thinking?

 

Our protocol here involves keeping doses and blood serum as steady as possible, so dips during mid-day are probably not a good idea.

 

You will be tapering gabapentin later, but not until you get your clonazepam evened out into 2x a day dosing.  

 

Additionally, you are on 3 major "brakes," including:

160 mg propranolol every 3 hours. 

 

this is a lot of propanolol.  What is your blood pressure?  Do you have a cuff, so you can track it at home?  With these levels of dosing, you should be tracking your blood pressure regularly.  Please see https://www.drugs.com/propranolol.html for dosage limits on this drug - you are exceeding all of them (usual maximum dose 320 mg / day).

 

What happens when you are on all brakes, is your system thinks you are dying and your adrenals spike you up with cortisol and fight-or-flight responses - what looks like panic attacks - to keep you alive.

 

I think you may need to reduce your propanalol before you taper your gabapentin, as well.

 

So I see a 3 step plan:

1.  Stabilize your clonazepam

2.  Reduce your propanolol

3.  Get ready to taper gabapentin.

and

4 (discussion coming up):  learn to use non-drug techniques for managing your wellness.

 

I think these other factors have been making your gabapentin taper more sensitive.

 

Additionally, you ask:

clonidine anyone?   could it help a nervous system out of control?  anyone use it?

 

and

is it possible lamotragine could help with gabapentin withdrawal?

 

and

i heard about flumenzil.

 

As long as you are seeking solutions from a pill in a bottle, you will not get better.  We cannot and will not recommend drugs, ever, here on SA.  It is against policy.  

 

You need to learn to survive your symptoms with  Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

These help with physical symptoms, too.  If you want to get off gabapentin (and the clonazepam and propanolol), you must create a toolkit of distractions and practices which are going to replace reaching for a pill.

 

You confessed:

i will take anything in reach that will alleviate the suffering when the w/d are that bad... even if it's coffee, or taking my original dosage,  more than the original dosage.    it can be that bad.   i have read all the gaba threads i can find and i seem to have it worse.

i know i sound dramatic but the illness i have affects the nervous system anyway.  damn,  that's why i was on this drug, to help.

 

As long as you are reaching for substances instead of practices, then you will continue to be trapped in the substance cage.

 

There are a number of practices which help with nerve pain.  Tai chi is a huge one, and its cousin chi gung.  Yoga.  Weightlifting. Pilates.  Any practice which improves core strength and coordinates breathing with movement, will help improve your responses to stress.

 

Gentle yoga for calming

Qi Gong: 7 Minutes of Magic for Health

 

Tapping, or EFT, is used by many to help us through the rough times.  http://www.emofree.com/eft-tutorial/eft-tapping-tutorial.html

 

Sometimes nothing helps - so have DVD's of your favourite childhood TV shows.  Make a plan - instead of reaching for a pill, try a bath with Epsom Salts - Another Way to Relax with Magnesium

 

Meditation - breathing and mindfulness - help you realize that - even though you are in pain - it will not kill you.  It helps you to survive the symptom of pain, and help you learn from it, detach from it, and it shifts the focus in your life from your pain, to your breathing - or something else.  Mindfulness and Acceptance

 

Make a list of things that you can do instead of reaching for a pill bottle.  Here's an example of what my list looks like:

Qi Gong

Yoga

Mindfulness

Guided meditations on YouTube

Researching, learning on the web

Gardening

Walking

Pets

Phone a Friend

Meet a friend

Get a massage

Acupuncture

Karate - or Circuit Training, but gently!

Stupid Games on Facebook

Listen to music

Watch a DVD (avoid commercials, horror, anything stimulating) or TV show

Craft - for me it's colouring books

 

Use your toolkit to help you through the pain, so that you're not thinking about the next dose, the next pill.  Sometimes a distraction is only for a minute at first - but that is a minute you are free.  Then go to the next minute, and decide what to do to be free for a minute.  String the minutes together, and your symptoms become easier to bear, over time.

 

Non-Drug Techniques for Dealing wth Physical Pain

 

and

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4482-what-to-do-for-painwhen-you-cant-take-meds/

 

You can do this.  Many have. Here's a partial list of SA folks who have tapered gabapentin (you are not alone):

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=survivingantidepressants.org+gabapentin&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU694AU694&oq=survivingantidepressants.org+gabapentin&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58j69i60l4.3581j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

It will get better, but you need to approach this like a scientific experiment, only making one small change at a time, making those changes slowly, carefully and methodically, and sticking to a plan.  Be patient and kind with yourself, to do otherwise robs you of precious energy.  It can get better, and I hope I've given you some suggestions to make some very real improvements in your current condition.

[chrona]

jan carol,

   

   

"even though you are in pain it will not kill you”

all i know is that i endured extreme discomfort for three months or so before writing to SA and at about that point or a bit after i teetered into an area that was unendurable.  i am pretty macho actually and was set up to suffer for a year like i was… then something happened to my nervous system.  it became something unendurable.  and i have been asked to describe the feeling and i can’t.  it’s not pain,  it’s not sickness, it’s something in the nervous system.  ( i know all the tricks you mentioned.)

 

i want to say how kind it was for you to write me at such length.  i am afraid that all my news is bad.  i had to reinstate back to original dose and i have had trouble stabilizing there.  i am staying there at least for a time,  to try to calm the nervous system back down and get back to what normal was before this experiment. it might be forever.    i don’t have a plan.  i take the clonazepam at night so i can get some sleep.  i have a prescription for 1 mg. and i take that but try to get by with .5.   often i will take the .5 and then some hours later take the other .5 to get some calming down so i can sleep. i am deathly afraid of moving .5 mg to the morning and not being able to sleep at all.   i have been through that, literally lying awake all night, perhaps napping 20 minutes before waking again,  night after night for years. 

 

the nervous system thing i have was effecting me before i was taking gp.  small things like my grip, my coordination, memory, sleep,  neuropathy,  palpitations.   when i was “activated” by a chemical insult or sun i would have “storms” of a accelerated feeling of d 

“

 epression and anxiety that was quite frightening,   i learned to cope with acupuncture i did on myself.   and moxabustion.  moxibustion is something i would recommend to everyone going through this.  the name of the thing i have is porphyria.  it causes de-myelinization of the nerve fibers.  that is what causes the muscle weakness, and can graduate to more serious issues, if you can imagine. this was the point of taking gp and i should have known better.

 

the gp is on an absolute schedule.  what i mean by that is i cannot extend the time period without w/d setting in.   if by some accident,  i go to sleep at night early having had only had 5 doses of gp that day,  the next day i am in w/d until i have taken about 3 doses,  so that’s a lot of the day.  the gp is on a schedule of it’s own in my body.  it wants it every 4 hours,  sometimes i can’t even get to 4 hours,  but i do everything i can to.  

 

the slow, steady thing i have begun to understand.  it’s like taming a wild animal.   i feel i am trying to do that now.  i am trying to write down when i dose.  it is very hard for me to remember to do that even though my notepad is in a central location!  my memory is so bad it’s scary. 

 

 

i have started ldn as it is supposed to help people with ms in the de-myelization issue.  the idea is that the endorphins help the nervous system restore itself.  i am clinging to a shred of hope there.

 

a friend said surely i could start with taking a tiny bit out my night time pill.  maybe.  i have gotten deathly afraid of the impact of the w/ds.

 

and i have been experimenting with cutting down propranolol.  the effect of cutting isn't obvious.  after a half a day though i have to take it.  the reason i take it is that it cuts the liver cascade of the chemical that is a result of the enzyme defect i have.   i started taking that drug first and i remember just needing needing it until i got to present dosage. damn,  if i could remember to write down what i take...  

[chrona]

https://www.drugs.com/forum/alternative-medicine/tautopathy-cure-wd-any-substance-59762.html

 

I have followed the directions for making the remedy and I think it is having some effect.  

 

for those of you who can't taper no matter how hard you try... or have hit a wall. 

[JanCarol]

Hey Chrona - 

 

i will take anything in reach that will alleviate the suffering when the w/d are that bad... 

 

This is what gets us running to doctors, and what got us drugged to begin with.

 

Learning to tolerate what's uncomfortable is a huge step in getting better.  

 

Be curious about your experience.  Let me describe mine for you:  hmm, my heart is flopping around in my chest.  Uncomfortable.  Breathe into it.  More comfortable, but still uncomfortable.  Find the place where comfortable meets uncomfortable.  Sometimes the uncomfortable part spreads up into my bronchial area and throat.  Sometimes it recedes.  Breathing always helps.  Be curious about it.    My ankles are cold and hurt, too.  I'd love to know why that is - but - I can distract myself at wondering at the connection between the feeling of "cold" and "pain."  Two different kinds of discomfort are overlapping there.   It's uncomfortable, but being curious about it - while it doesn't make it hurt less - gives my attention a new focus.  

 

failure.  i hope i can try again sometime, 

 

You are so hard on yourself!

 

I downloaded a Buddhist book to my Kindle last night...it was by Pema Chodron; I downloaded it because I liked the title:

 

"Fail, Fail Again, Fail Better:  Wise Advice for Leaning into the Unknown."

 

Every time you fail, you learn something.  You might learn what not to do next time.  Or maybe the failure will lead you to a better way next time.

 

Let go, be kind to yourself.

 

it's beginning to look like i will never be free of this. 

 

It sounds like you could benefit from some CBT - Cognitive Behavioural Therapy.  This is a logical fallacy.

 

To say "never" and "always" - is never true!  (except there, see how I did that?)

 

If you can't stand the thought of CBT (you can check it out here:  Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) for Anxiety, Depression and here:  Free Online Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) Lessons ) there's also ACT, which is similar, but more focused on relationships:  Dr. Rob Purssey's ACT Tips - Acceptance and Commitment Therapy

 

or perhaps Mindfulness will help you:  Jon Kabat-Zinn Body Scan

 

The point is - most of your suffering seems to be about your suffering.  Fear of the fear.  Dread of the dread.  Making yourself suffer.

 

Look up - literally - look up (it's one of our Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms ).   Jon Kabat-Zinn has an excellent "Mindfulness for Pain Control" program that is a Godsend for me.   

While you do say you have a physical neurological disorder - most of what I hear on your thread is emotional symptoms.  Look up, see the sun, look for the horizon, and take a few tiny steps towards it.  You call them tricks, but they are really a life raft.

 

Your tautopathic homeopathy - I've heard of others trying it.  How is that going?

 

And the LDN?  I got prescribed that today (I have mixed feelings about it - it seems like a darling of the pain industry right now - but I'm suspicious of the industry!)

 

I hope you see the sun today.

[chrona]

I have been trying to taper Gabapentin for 3 years.  After the first year I re-instated back to the original dose.  300/6 times a day.   now I am at 275  5 xs a day.

It is much harder for me than others apparently from the many many posts and threads I have read.

The rules other people go by don't work for me,  in terms of how much to go down, how fast, etc.  

My question is... if the cut I make seems initially do-able,  but I don't get used to it, in fact it gets harder,  do I up-dose?

Then,  do I wait until I feel ok,  like normal?

[chrona]

I accomplished a big drop of nearly 300 mg around the first of the year.  I was frantic, insane.  I slept with acupuncture needles,  it was the only way I could sleep.  I also found some homeopathic remedies that helped.  I waited about 3 months and then tried a 10 mg drop.  it is as bad as the former drop.  The homeopathic remedies aren't working as well.  I just wondering if I should up dose?

 

[BfromNJ]

1 hour ago, chrona said:

I have been trying to taper Gabapentin for 3 years.  After the first year I re-instated back to the original dose.  300/6 times a day.   now I am at 275  5 xs a day.

It is much harder for me than others apparently from the many many posts and threads I have read.

The rules other people go by don't work for me,  in terms of how much to go down, how fast, etc.  

My question is... if the cut I make seems initially do-able,  but I don't get used to it, in fact it gets harder,  do I up-dose?

Then,  do I wait until I feel ok,  like normal?

I just did my first cut of gabapentin too.  I'm finding it much harder at only 5% than my antidepressant at 25%!.  You are not alone.   I was thinking same thing .  It's been a .month  and also wondering if I updose or ride it out more.  

[ChessieCat]

Quote

many years ago given sinequan for depression bad reaction so tiny dose of meleril to balance... quit after a year or so c/t

years pass no drugs

reg doc had me try all of the  a/d bc of upset due to divorce.  couldn't handle any.  took klonopin to sleep .5 mg  2003

taper klonopin

hooked on tramadol accidentally. 2006-2008 husband had migraines and took them like candy. so i became dependent too.  c/t  2008

diagnosis of porphyria after years of symptoms,  then toxic event made me really ill.

 

gabapentin 300mg every 3 hours , 6x day.

propranolol   180 mg  6x / day

since 2012

clonazepam prescribed as 1 mg / day  but beginning to take more to deal with withdrawals and sleeplessness

 

Please simplify and update your drug signature.  All we need are drug name, dates, doses.

 

The information you have already provided is useful for reference if we need more details so you might want to copy and paste the current one into a post and then include a link to it in your signature so that it can be accessed quickly.

 

Keep it simple.  NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

 

[ChessieCat]

The way I make the decision about updosing or holding is by asking myself a question:  Can I continue putting up with these systems if they don't ease?  If the answer is yes, then I hold for longer.

 

If the answer is no, then I updose. Please note that when you updose you don't go back to the previous dose.  You do a small updose.  It is better to start with a small amount than to increase too much.  The amount you updose will depend on how long it is since the reduction and what the doses you took/are taking.

 

Please see this topic:  WDnormal (withdrawal normal)

 

 

[chrona]

I was thinking of up dosing half of the amount I took away.   is that right?  or even less?  I just don't seem to be adjusting to this cut I made, as small as it was. 

 

and what is the theory to cutting.  do you cut just the amount you can barely tolerate?  how much do you stress yourself?   there is a whole theory here that I don't quite get.

 

thank you.