WingIt: Supporting wife through Velafaxine withdrawal

[WingIt]

Hi skeeter, thats for spending so much time on this!

 

I had found that link before and yes several similarities.

 

From my research I think the cold turkey withdrawal from the seroquol and more recently the 9 days on olanzapine then cold turkey stop from that may be responsible formthe "psychosis" like behavior surrounding being "in love", I found today she has sent herself an email inviting her psyciatrist around and then many inappropriate comments. She thinks he hacks her email and reads them. Its harmless and nothing can come of it so I wont ask her about it.

 

But on the other hand yesterday we impulsivly drove to another city and went to some hotpools, got home late. Today we are going to another city dinner. So she is happier spending time with me and being in public. Still some bizzare behaviour and have to be very careful what I say but a slight improvement anyway

[WingIt]

Sorry I missed replying to a bit. Im not sure when her next appointment is, because of her cancelling appointments and being generally difficult she has been shifted around a bit. She now has a case manager who has been trying to contact her for a week now, I will be calling her on Monday to arrange an appointment at our house, my wife has asked for me to be there has she doesnt now feel comfortable with "strangers" coming around.

I will also request that I can see her psyciatrist myself and discuss what they think vs what I think and also give new information regarding her strange thoughts etc. It will be easier to discuss without her knowing what was said.

 

She was asked to get a blood test done by the psychiatrist 10 days ago but she isnt feeling up to that. I know it could help see if there is something going on re:hormones and general body functioning but I dont feel in a position to push the issue with her at the moment. It will only end in an argument, less stress for her the better.

 

I have also got her some 5-HTP supplement and that along with magnesium, fish oil and time off the meds has meant she is now reportadly falling asleep around 10-11pm and waking at 7am (she sets an alarm to encourage consistency). So thats encouraging. She also wakes up and is wide awake, previously she has always struggled with mornings

 

We went out for dinner tonight and she elected to drive there (1hour) which is good as she hasnt been driving. She was ok over dinner, wore her wedding rings, said we should go for a romantic walk along the lake (didnt as it was cold), but was also in a grumpy mood and dwelling on something her sister said on facebook several days ago.

So a mixed day, not bad, not great but brief moments of each.

 

Also a random bit of information, she claims her breasts are sore and growing. She was always slightly above average in that department but over the course of efexor lost weight and also breast size. I suspect this is possibly her body returning to "normal" now? Not sure, something hormone related going on anyway.

 

I have updatee my sig.

[Skeeter]

Wing,

Wanted to touch on the breast tenderness and swelling that she noted.

I might have some insight to her breast tenderness- I stopped taking bupropion (an SNRI like Effexor) over a short period of time, and I ended up with a severe case of breast tenderness and fullness.  It did not even follow my cycle, like normal breast tenderness does for me.  I was so sore that I had to wear a sports bra 24 hours the whole time I had this issue.  I a small chested, so the fullness was easily noticeable.  This is how bad the pain was- I wore a regular bra to an appointment, and went to change when I got home, the simple act of releasing the clasp almost took me to my knees in pain.  I forgot to be careful.  Wearing a sports bra without underwires can help, if she does not have that, layering 2-3 tank tops with "shelf" type bras can help, too, in case she does not have a sports bra.  Her pain may not be as severe as mine.  I hope not!!  I hope this information helps! Now you know me way more than you ever wanted to...lol!

 

Wondering if the hospital will send someone to your home to do the blood draw?  Would she be open to that, possibly?  I know she is not trustful of strangers, but if it is just one person, might she be okay? Just a thought!!

 

It sounds like the good times are becoming more and more common.  I am not sure if she is having more good than bad time yet, but it sounds like more and more of her time is positive, even if it is progressing slowly. That is a big change from where you started.  Keep it up!!

 

Skeeter

[WingIt]

Haha thanks for the info, from what I can tell she says its uncomfortable rather than sore.

 

She acknowledged today the effect the withdrawal is having on her physically still and said it might take months to feel better. She is frustrated as she would like to start running again now that it is spring but physically cant. She is very achy today but again didnt sleep well, 6 hours still which isnt bad.

 

Yes you are right good times are happening more but the bad times are worse than before if that makes sense. Today she is very argumentative, its like she wants to fight and argue over every little thing. So im just saying nothing. She is back asleep now after lunch.

I wouldnt say she is more positive than not so still a ways to go yet, I see she has been banned from linkedin for innapropriate content, she complained to them saying she is very important and everyone needs to see this. Very bizzare, but harmless.

[Edie]

Hi there!

 

I hope your wife will feel better soon. I'm also currently in venlafaxine withdrawal and just wanted to give you some hope that it will get better at one point. I've been also very angry, even a little bit paranoid and have had terrible mood swings, but I'm already feeling quite a lot better mentally. I also have this tender and a bit swollen breasts thing going on - I'm quite sure it is the withdrawal, cause I know some people having the same problem.

 

What seems to reduce a little bit my withdrawal symptoms: omega 3, magnesium, zinc gluconate and coconut oil. I think that one of these supplements eliminated the brain zaps (probably omega 3 or coconut oil). Ofcourse everyone is different, but these things seem quite tolerable for a lot of people. I also take vit c and a good probiotic.

 

Hang in there!

[WingIt]

Thanks for the info, its nice (well comforting, nothing about these drugs is nice) to hear there are others getting past this as it can be hard to remain positive.

 

I have bought omega 3 fish oil, magnesium and 5-htp for supplements, my wife admits she doesnt always take them. Im not in a position to force her or even encourage as she takes this as being controlling.

She is eating quite a lot of fruit, mandarins, kiwifruit, apples etc and probiotic yoghurt. Also I try encourage a green tea at night.

For dinners we have been having chicken, steak or fish with spinach and other things.

 

Yesterday was a good day, today we were visited by a social worker, she has been assigned to my wife and my wife agreed to see her every second week just to have a chat. Will be good I think for her to talk to someone not involved with anything prior to this and get some guidence.

She is of course quite agitated as I had to once again explain my version of the story which she still disagrees with. Will see what happens over the coming week

[nz11]

Personally i think it is a safe option that she has a social worker to talk to rather than a pdoc or doctor.

I believe in NZ many social workers are aware of the iatrogenic harm being done. But of course 'they are not allowed to say anything'.

Arent we in a dreadful situation.

 

Magnesium and omega 3 great but Im not so sure that 5htp supplements are a good idea.

[scallywag]

For those taking or tapering a psychiatric medication or in withdrawal from one, we strongly urge avoiding  5-HTP and L-tryptophan.  Both these substances act on a CNS (central nervous system) which is already dealing with effects of the pharmaceuticals. Adding another substance is unpredictable, even a "natural" one such as 5-HTP. If your wife won't take it, GOOD!

 

For more information, please read 5-HTP and L-tryptophan

[WingIt]

Ok thats new, i have read info stating it is good for withdrawal?

 

She is taking the smallest dose possible, 30mg or something occasionally before bed and it helps her sleep. I will investigate further later on today as its 6am and Im leaving for work.

[WingIt]

Well she is becoming increasingly psychotic and the social worker is very concerned.

Next week is going to be interesting and there may be some intervention from the mental health professionals. I dont necessarily agree but with my wifes behavior getting closer to self harming then maybe actions to need to be taken for a short period.

[KarenB]

Not sure if 'Boomer' still posts on SA, but she might be worth talking to about your situation as she's had involvement with 'interactions' regarding her husband.  Or even have a skim through her thread. 

 

Perhaps stopping the 5-htp would help in the mean time. 

 

What are the current views of you and your wife about reinstatement of a low dose of effexor?  It's often the only way to resolve a c/t and subsequent w/d symptoms.  It may allow you and your wife greater control than you'd have if an intervention happens.  Whatever you decide, being well-informed is important. 

[WingIt]

I did have a breif skim, will read more thoughrally tonight.

Yes a reinstatement may work, however getting her to take any medication will be the hurdle. She isnt really taking any supplements now, very difficult to talk to about anything regarding this situation as she is 100% sure there is nothing wrong and she is being normal.

 

We have an appointment with the lead psychiatrist on Wednesday afternoon, I dont really want to see her medicated but at the moment it may be best for her as she is becoming increasingly psychotic or at least deluded. She has been banned twice from LinkedIn on two seperate accounts for posting absolute nonsense thinking she is having a 1 on 1 conversation with the psyciatrist we saw about 2 months ago, she beleives she is in love with him etc. These conversations however are happening with completly random people.

Since being banned she has fired off email after email to her own account again thinking she is in communication with this man, asking him to come get her so they can run away together etc.

Because of this I am concerned for her safety, worried she may do something irrational/dangerous.

 

I spoke with her sister (complicated family) and she had a brief episode about 18months ago with similarities, she was aware of herself however and sought help with a Psychologist. She has been diagnosed with traits of Borderline Personality Disorder, a lot of which tie in with my wife.

No medication is required for the treatment of this however since my wife is unaware of herself she will be unwilling to undertake treatment.

I will raise this with the Psychiatrist on Wednesday, it may be in my wifes best intersts to be hospitalised for a while to stabilise her. I know medication isnt healthy but she is getting worse and I dont want to see her hurt herself.

[Boomer]

Hi Wingit - This is Boomer, another fellow kiwi.  I have/am supporting my husband who suffered terribly from Effexor Withdrawal.  I felt alot of sadness when I read your posts.   Please read my posts as you may be able to relate to our situation.  My husband is stable now but when they hospitalised him they increased his medication and added another - Olanzapine.  We are now tapering the Olanzapine very very slowly.   I encourage you to read as much as you are able on this forum.   Do you have support or another person close to you that you can talk too?  I found this helped me.  

[WingIt]

Hi Boomer, I have read the first couple of pages of your story so far. Sorry you and your husband have had to go through all of this.

 

My wife was also put on Olanzapine, but only 2.5mg about 3weeks after stopping her other meds. She took it for 9 days but it effected her badly and she stopped that coming up 3 weeks ago on Friday.

 

I in some ways hope she is hospitalised but in many ways wish she isnt. Its very stressful for me with work and my wifes health issues. Makes it very hard to focus on work as I am 30mins away and carpool so cant always drop everything if she suddenly needed me. Also the constant worry whilst I am at work. If she is in hospital I can know she is at least physically safe.

On the other hand I am wary of medication which the hospital will no doubt enforce.

I do have quite a few people for support, my wifes family is constantly in touch to check with me how she is, my parents are only 5mins away also. Lots of friends to talk to as well.

 

Anyway, yesterday was somewhat of a break through day. When I got home from work we were able to have a 10min conversation about her situation without her getting angry and shutting herself in the bedroom. I was able to raise the issue about her thinking she was talking to the psyciatrist online and she sort of admitted it was strange behaviour and said she wasnt going to do it anymore.

Today as well she seemed pretty good, hadnt used the internet much today, started tidying the bedroom etc and had some time outside in the sun.

She says she feels better, hopefully this is a sign the woman I know is about ready to emerge. If only for a little while. But we will see

[nz11]

Wingit,

This is a tremendous update.

This is what i would do, i would do all you possibly can to keep her from being hospitalized. You say you have family support well that is twice as much as most. That is all you need.

This is also a public forum so i can suggest anything within reason and if it was me i would cancel all appointments with the doctors and pdocs.

Nothing helpful will come from it.

Another kiwi to check out is  member kiwibex there is a lfew similarities. This member may even be happy to communicate with your wife.

 

Of course if you go to see the pdoc or a doc that is your decision. But from my own  expereince it would not be helpful and would in fact be dangerous.

Hey i'm just calling it as i see it. These people do not acknowledge wdl and any mention of iatrogenic harm will turn them feral.

 

She could well be having a window and these are followed by waves but if so dont hit the panic button because another window is on its way.

All the best whatever you decide.

nz11

[WingIt]

Thanks for the info.

Unfortunately last night was bad, she has lost her grasp on reality is emailing herself constantly thinking she is having conversations. Claims she is pregnant (not possible) and lots of other bizzare behaviour.

Its at the point where I am worried for her safety and do not feel comfortable leaving her by herself. Some of her emails contain borderline suicidal threats.

 

Yes psychiatrists are a risk but at the moment she poses a bigger risk to herself. We have an appointment today, I have given them all info including the emails.

She needs help and me and family members cannot provide that to the degree that she needs.

 

This may not be what everyone would do but I dont feel I have a choice any more.

I will of course give what info i have leart from here, and push for reinstatement of at least seroquel in an effort to stabilise her

[Skeeter]

WingIt,

 

With the dramatic change in situation, you do what you have to do, because the possible consequences of inaction are unfathomable.

 

I was totally with nz11's idea until this scary turn of events came about. I just wish this were not the only solution, and it seems from your comments that you are indeed torn, just know you are doing the best you possibly can for her.

 

I wish you both the best of luck. If you can, let us know how it goes, we would love to hear how you both are and provide moral support, but only as you are up to it.

[WingIt]

We have seen the Dr with her social worker there as well. My wife as usual remained 100% sure of herself and her actions. Thought it was a huge joke. Refused all help and all medication (i can accept how she feels, I dont like medication after all of this either).

 

So we were sent home, I asked her about all these emails (they continued after seeing the dr) and she tells me she is well aware of what she is doing, knows she isnt pregnant but is just teasing him. Told me she talks to him all day. Not via phone or anything, physically talks to him.

 

So she is being sectioned. They are going to come get her and hospitalise her unless she agrees to treatment. I have put my case forward to reinstate the effexor and seroquel before all other options. I will again voice this strongly tomorrow when it happens.

At least they will be able to carry out blood tests and physical examinations once she is there.

 

Honestly, I am broken over this. But she isnt getting better sitting at home, going cold turkey on the meds hasnt been good. She needs something to happen.

Is it the right thing? I dont know but I can sit back and do nothing

[scallywag]

Oh goodness, that is heartbreaking. I'm extremely saddened to hear that you're dealing with an ultimatum -- either treatment or hospitalization. 

[WingIt]

Well the way she is acting, the decisions she is making, the way she treats everyone else and her complete lack of insight into her situation are the reasons it has come to this.

Hopefully some reinstatement so we can taper properly and the impact of how serious the situation is maybe what it takes to get her to see just how far off the rails she has fallen.

[Skeeter]

Wing,

 

You have been as supportive as I can imagine anyone being through this difficulty, and you know that she is not herself. With the emails hinting a suicidal ideations, in my mind, there is not much left for you in the way of decisions.

 

I know you heart is broken, but I think you are doing the right thing by staying very involved and giving input as to what you feel is going on, and asking that they reinstate the 2 meds for a proper taper.

 

Since you have to work, and you have no one that is willing to be or can be with her all of the time so she is never alone, I think, in your situation, I would be faced with the same difficult decision. You know the possible consequences of inaction, and if she were to follow through with what she wrote, you would never forgive yourself. I think if I was in the exact same situation, where there was no one to care for her all of the time (when you are at work)- if there is not anyone who can be with her full time until she stabilizes, I would probably make the same decision as you. Her behavior is erratic, so you cannot count on leaving her in the morning on your way to work, and then come home to find her the same mindset as she was when you left.

 

Try not to feel guilty, you are dong your best to make sure she stays safe, at this point her safety is the one thing you need to be able to count on, right? You make the choice you have to. Too bad there is not anyone who could spend their days with her until she starts to stabilize, then again, if she has been violent, you also have to worry about that person's safety.

 

I hope the doctors take you seriously, and only treat her how you have explicitly asked them, and nothing more. Be insistent!!

 

Good luck!!

[nz11]

Any improvements?

[Skeeter]

Wing,

I really hope all is going as well as it can be. I hope she is in touch with reality now. I am very sorry you have gone through all of this.

 

Best wishes!

Skeeter

[WingIt]

Sorry for not updating, life got busy for a while there.

 

Summary: things are much better

 

Story:

After my last post my wife was admitted to the local psych ward against her wishes. She was there for 3 nights and it was determined that she was experiencing delusions or psychosis.

 

Following this she was put on 5mg of olanzapine. Over the next month she steadily improved but the delusions lingered so the dose was increased to 7.5mg

In early december she suddenly "snapped out of it" and became a lot more herself however just before Christmas she began experiencing depression and suicidal thoughts.

Initially she was put on an anti depressant (not venlafaxine) at the lowest dose, however she saw another dr and got back on 112.5mg venlafaxine... Great.

 

Over the next month she started applying for jobs locally, we got a puppy to keep her company etc.

By this stage she had put on a lot of weight due to the olanzapine and was a bit of a zombie, sleeping 14 hours, eating heaps and emotionally flat.

 

Once she started working again things improved though she was very reluctant to give up the meds. Minor issues were arising such as paranoia like previous and I managed to get a message to her dr (who for privacy laws couldn't tell me anything, but I could tell them). This dr then told her they would not prescribe any more meds until she saw the psychiatrist again. For whatever reason my wife refuses to do this so she has had to drop her dose.

 

Present day:

Dose of venlafaxine dropped from 112.5 to 75mg for 1 month with no issues, now been on 37.5mg for 2 weeks with minor mood changes but otherwise fine.

Dose olanzapine dropped back to 5mg for 3 weeks then stopped. No issues at all, sleeping well, eating normal amounts etc.

 

So I would say she is 98% her normal self. Tbe final hurdle will be the 37.5mg venlafaxine.

There is still no sign of any insight into the fact that all the things she claimed happened were not real so working on building on some relationships that were damaged because of this.

[peng]

Sincere best wishes for future, both.

[KarenB]

Try to get her to take it slow Wing - the last stages are the most difficult.  Maintaining stability is the key, rather than speed of exit.

[WingIt]

As an update, its now 13 weeks since my wife stopped all meds. There were very minimal "brain zaps" and mood changes after stopping 37.5mg venlafaxine. A few ups and downs along the way but the most significant of these lasted only 3 weeks and didnt prevent her from working or socialising.

 

I have finally managed to get her along to a councilling service and getting to the roots of the initial cause of anxiety and depression and it seems to be going well