Godiswithme: I'm very scared

[ChessieCat]

This has a small amount of information:  Biography of Founder of Surviving Antidepressant Website, Alto Strata

[Godiswithme]

Thank you ChessieCat.

[Godiswithme]

Hello, what is the longest time someone can reinstate, stabilize and hold on a micro dose? Could this go on indefinitely? I know the ultimate goal would be to taper, but just wondering how long it possibly could go on?

[ChessieCat]

Here's a discussion:  extreme-difficulty-when-in-final-stretch-stay-on-low-dose-forever

[Godiswithme]

Ok. I read it. Thank you ChessieCat. So, at this point, I am nearing the 3 month cold turkey point. I could be facing years? of withdrawal? Or I could try to reinstate? I'm overwhelmed.

May I please ask for some informed opinions. I know no one can tell me what to do. Anxiety off the charts has been my main system. A terror like I've never known. I lost a job. Am barely functioning. Unfortunately, I am on 1 mg of Xanax per day which I had taken prior to AD and Abilify. Complicated everything. The Xanax sometimes helps symptoms a bit, but I know that is a time bomb.

Are the odds against me? How do I try to tough this out when it could be years? Please, can I get opinions?

[Hexal]

once you are off drugs, it takes a while for the system to go back to a drug free state, typically 6 to 18 months, but it's not as bad as you are feeling right now.  The symptoms decrease in intensity, bit by bit, until they are quite bearable.  At some point it becomes easier, but until then it's hard. 

 

Out of curiosity, where do you get this time frame/sequence of events from? My impression from a lot of users on this forum and what I've read elsewhere (as well as my own experience) is that many (not all, not sure if it's majority/minority) have symptoms for years and years. And that new symptoms pop up a long way into withdrawal, so that it's far from a linear amelioration of symptoms over time.

[Godiswithme]

 

once you are off drugs, it takes a while for the system to go back to a drug free state, typically 6 to 18 months, but it's not as bad as you are feeling right now. The symptoms decrease in intensity, bit by bit, until they are quite bearable. At some point it becomes easier, but until then it's hard.

Out of curiosity, where do you get this time frame/sequence of events from? My impression from a lot of users on this forum and what I've read elsewhere (as well as my own experience) is that many (not all, not sure if it's majority/minority) have symptoms for years and years. And that new symptoms pop up a long way into withdrawal, so that it's far from a linear amelioration of symptoms over time.

Hello Hexal,

I just read your thread. I am also curious about the time frame given. Can I private message you?

[Hexal]

Sure, feel free to pm me 

[scallywag]

Ok. I read it. Thank you ChessieCat. So, at this point, I am nearing the 3 month cold turkey point. I could be facing years? of withdrawal? Or I could try to reinstate?. ...

 

GIWM -- it is unpredictable how your CNS (central nervous system) will respond to a reinstatement 3 months after your last dose, as it is for anyone. The time it will take for your CNS to recover from the many changes in medications and doses this year is unpredictable.

 

How long to stabilize after reinstating or updosing

[Godiswithme]

 

Ok. I read it. Thank you ChessieCat. So, at this point, I am nearing the 3 month cold turkey point. I could be facing years? of withdrawal? Or I could try to reinstate?. ...

GIWM -- it is unpredictable how your CNS (central nervous system) will respond to a reinstatement 3 months after your last dose, as it is for anyone. The time it will take for your CNS to recover from the many changes in medications and doses this year is unpredictable.

 

How long to stabilize after reinstating or updosing

Thank you. I understand there are no guarantees. But, could trying 1/20th of a ml. Be harmful to me? Do I just wait and hope I don't get years and years of this withdrawal? I don't mean to be a pain in the neck. I have read the different threads. Everything is so different.

it's hard to think straight.

[jmncrr]

 

What is cbd oil?

Its the non psychoactive substance in marijuana.. Its the relaxing part called canabodial. Its perfectly legal, and can be bought on the internet. I don't recommend it for everybody though. Its effects are about like taking a xanax, but without the rebound effect.

 

If it were me i would reinstate my medication, for i don't respond to anxiety very well. Thats just me.

 

Does the xanax work for you? Is Anxiety your main symptom?

[Godiswithme]

 

What is cbd oil?

Its the non psychoactive substance in marijuana.. Its the relaxing part called canabodial. Its perfectly legal, and can be bought on the internet. I don't recommend it for everybody though. Its effects are about like taking a xanax, but without the rebound effect.

 

If it were me i would reinstate my medication, for i don't respond to anxiety very well. Thats just me.

 

Does the xanax work for you? Is Anxiety your main symptom?

Pretty much, but it is debilitating. I don't know what to do.

I am getting very desperate. I need to read your story so I can ask you some questions. Thank you for responding.

Thank you for the info.

[Godiswithme]

Good to hear you're on a more regular schedule with the benzo. It may take some time for your system to accommodate, hopefully in a more calm direction.

 

If you can feel you need the second and third dose, I suspect you may either need more doses or a bit of an updose. Please discuss in the Benzo forum. But be sure to give regular dosing a chance, keep notes of symptoms relative to when you take your drugs.

 

Cold turkey is a high-risk way to go off drugs. We can't predict how long it will take for your nervous system to settle down.

 

Did you ever take Celexa?

 

May I ask for an opinion on me reinstating?

Anxiety unbearable. I never took Celexa. Not sure why you wanted to know. I thank you for your time. Much appreciated.

[ChessieCat]

I can understand your frustration about making a decision whether to reinstate, and that in itself can cause anxiety.  I also understand you asking for others opinions, however nobody knows what will happen.  Only you can make the choice about what to do.  One thing you may want to consider.  You are suffering anxiety BUT are you making the anxiety worse by feeding it with fear?  Have you been using any non-drug techniques which may reduce the anxiety?  Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

One thing that I will strongly suggest is:  DO NOT let yourself get into such a panic about it and become desperate and then reinstate too high a dose.  Make sure if you do reinstate to start with a very low dose.  Keep daily notes (you could also rate them) about symptoms which improve, worsen, stay the same.  This will help you and us to work out whether reinstatement is working.  Remember it takes 4 days for the drug to get to a steady state in the blood and several more days for it is register in the brain.

 

I suggest you re-read About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms and also Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Maybe jot down notes on paper, the fors and againsts, so that you stop the thoughts from whirling out of control in your head and causing more panic and anxiety.

[Altostrata]

 

Good to hear you're on a more regular schedule with the benzo. It may take some time for your system to accommodate, hopefully in a more calm direction.

 

If you can feel you need the second and third dose, I suspect you may either need more doses or a bit of an updose. Please discuss in the Benzo forum. But be sure to give regular dosing a chance, keep notes of symptoms relative to when you take your drugs.

 

Cold turkey is a high-risk way to go off drugs. We can't predict how long it will take for your nervous system to settle down.

 

Did you ever take Celexa?

 

May I ask for an opinion on me reinstating?

Anxiety unbearable. I never took Celexa. Not sure why you wanted to know. I thank you for your time. Much appreciated.

 

 

Because of the tongue symptom, I am wary of adding another drug.

 

Celexa is a close relative of Lexapro that is milder. If adding an SSRI seems like a good idea to you, you might consider adding a very small amount of Celexa rather than Lexapro.

 

Instead, I might consider increasing the daily benzo dosage, possibly by adding another dose or two, after you give evening out your schedule a trial. Please discuss with Wellness.

[Shep]

Hi, GIWM.

 

Just a reminder that the members-only benzo forum is here:

 

Members only benzo forum

 

Please start a thread there. Wellness, our benzo moderator, checks that section more often. 

[Godiswithme]

 

 

Good to hear you're on a more regular schedule with the benzo. It may take some time for your system to accommodate, hopefully in a more calm direction.

 

If you can feel you need the second and third dose, I suspect you may either need more doses or a bit of an updose. Please discuss in the Benzo forum. But be sure to give regular dosing a chance, keep notes of symptoms relative to when you take your drugs.

 

Cold turkey is a high-risk way to go off drugs. We can't predict how long it will take for your nervous system to settle down.

 

Did you ever take Celexa?

May I ask for an opinion on me reinstating?

Anxiety unbearable. I never took Celexa. Not sure why you wanted to know. I thank you for your time. Much appreciated.

Because of the tongue symptom, I am wary of adding another drug.

 

Celexa is a close relative of Lexapro that is milder. If adding an SSRI seems like a good idea to you, you might consider adding a very small amount of Celexa rather than Lexapro.

 

Instead, I might consider increasing the daily benzo dosage, possibly by adding another dose or two, after you give evening out your schedule a trial. Please discuss with Wellness.

Thank you for your input. Very much appreciated.

[yyeehhaaww]

For what it is worth, imo I really feel like you are dealing with xanax withdrawal (a cold turkey which is the WORST for a benzo--I did this not knowing any better with klonopin). Currently I am really struggling with so much anxiety like you and am in benzo withdrawal hell madness.  I UNDERSTAND.  I also have severe sound and light hypersensitivty so cannot take very much along with other symptoms coming and going and changing, but without a doubt the anxiety is the worst. I question if I will ever get well and struggle with hopelessness and depression.  

 

Try to stay present and NOT in the future.  This only adds to the anxiety.  All you can deal with is the very moment you are in.

 

The wave of anxiety is like a rip current trying to take you under.  One of the very first things you need to do with a rip current is Remain calm if a rip current begins to pull you away from shore.   OF COURSE THIS IS EASIER SAID THAN DONE.  That is when deep breathing, the relaxation clip referred to earlier.... anything to help you distract. 

 

To survive the rip current, Float on your back or tread water if you can't swim out of the current. If you can't swim, or if you get tired before you manage to make it out of the current, conserve your energy and stay afloat. Continue to signal for help if there are people present. If you're alone, just relax and stay afloat until you have enough energy to continue to swim. Rip currents generally subside 50–100 yards (45.7–91.4 m) from the shore, so you'll eventually stop getting pulled further out.  

 

Now gism, CLOSE YOUR EYES AND TRY AND VISUALIZE THESE STEPS IN YOUR MIND with the anxiety.  You are signaling for help by reaching out here.  Well Done!!!  

 

Acceptance is also key, but again easier said than done (The Serenity Prayer).  I close my eyes and try to meditate on Scriptures, sometimes that helps, but lately when it intensifies, that does not help. Try to have something you can hold on to in your mind to think about.... your family, etc. during the rough times.  We are all holding each others' hand.  Thank you Alto for this amazing site of comfort for all of us wounded survivors.

[ChessieCat]

yyeehhaaww, that is such an excellent analogy.

 

Some people find it helpful to have a list of things to refer to when anxiety or other bad feelings arise.  This list is to remind you of things that you can do to try and calm down, eg yoga positions, or music to play, a movie to watch, meditation, go outside.  If you check this list throughout the day you will learn what is on it and you may be able to do/use those things without referring to the list.

 

Something I mentioned someone on SA recently:

 

My daughter made a suggestion to me recently about "checking in with myself" to see how I was.  Because I knew that I would probably forget and sometimes things creep up slowly and then all of a sudden I am in a bad state, I set a timer for an hour during the morning (and it became easier to do it without the timer in the afternoon) just so I could be reminded and I would stop and think, okay, how am I feeling, what thoughts am I having.  This meant that I could nip it in the bud and do some controlled deep breathing before it became too much of a problem and harder to deal with.  I have found myself checking in with myself throughout the day now without even having to remind myself.  I'm very thankful that she suggested this to me as I have found it very helpful, even though it is very simple.

 

In order to get off the drug/s we need to stop thinking of drugs as being the solution.

[yyeehhaaww]

By the way, giwm, I want to praise you for the no sugar, caffeine, of course, no alcohol.  I too have done that as well.  I have even elminated dairy and a lot of gluten.  I am overweight, but have lost my appetite and never can really think of what to eat as nothing sounds good.  I am also dealing with nausea.  I am not very functional, and sit and sleep in my recliner 24/7 except appointments.  

 

Today, I did a search for foods that help with anxiety.  They are:

 

Avocados, Blueberries, Salmon, Almonds, Spinach, Turkey, Oatmeal, Asparagus, Oranges, Milk

 

The neat thing about them is they are EASY, except for cooking the salmon, oatmeal and turkey if not cooked.

 

I was doing very badly this afternoon.  I know I am wearing my husband down worrying about me and by all his caring of me, taking me everywhere, cooking, shopping, etc.  I talked to my sister and asked if I could just ride around in her car as she did errands while he worked in the yard,I somehow managed to get dressed, but I looked awful and unkept.  I know he needed to be away from me.  I had looked up the foods and ended up in the grocery store (can't believe I did) and got the first 5 items.  When I got home, I took all of them, but the salmon and put them in a bowl with salad dressing and somehow managed to cook the salmon.  It was an easy meal.  I feel better, but if I am going to feel a little better, it is usually at night.  I love the darkness... it just helps me.

 

Chessie's suggestion about a list is spot on EXCELLENT.  I need to do that.  PLEASE MAKE YOU ONE WHEN YOU CAN as only you know what might be helpful to distract ... even very simple things.... Of course, EXERCISE is the very best, but often when I am the sickest no matter how much I know it will help i have no strength or motivation to do anything.  I was recently told to put a cold, wet wash cloth on the back of my neck.  I used to be hot all the time, but now am cold so could not try that, but hopefully will.  It turned cold here in Texas, but I'm sure it is not as cold as PA.  Remember take it a minute at a time when things are rough.

[Godiswithme]

 

 

Good to hear you're on a more regular schedule with the benzo. It may take some time for your system to accommodate, hopefully in a more calm direction.

 

If you can feel you need the second and third dose, I suspect you may either need more doses or a bit of an updose. Please discuss in the Benzo forum. But be sure to give regular dosing a chance, keep notes of symptoms relative to when you take your drugs.

 

Cold turkey is a high-risk way to go off drugs. We can't predict how long it will take for your nervous system to settle down.

 

Did you ever take Celexa?

May I ask for an opinion on me reinstating?

Anxiety unbearable. I never took Celexa. Not sure why you wanted to know. I thank you for your time. Much appreciated.

Because of the tongue symptom, I am wary of adding another drug.

 

Celexa is a close relative of Lexapro that is milder. If adding an SSRI seems like a good idea to you, you might consider adding a very small amount of Celexa rather than Lexapro.

 

Instead, I might consider increasing the daily benzo dosage, possibly by adding another dose or two, after you give evening out your schedule a trial. Please discuss with Wellness.

I am going to do what you said and discuss with Wellness.

I have a question, if you don't mind, would taking a small dose of Celexa be considered Polydrugging?

I get the impression you have a feeling any amount of escitalopram may be too much for my CNS? Thank you

[Godiswithme]

he he he, GMTA I guess (or FSD? fools seldom differ? LOL)

 

 

Also, you don't need to let them know you're currently taking very low doses. Let them write a scrip that matches your previous one, 2.5 mg or 5, whatever. When you're done and successfully off for several months, you can present them with the information that you have tapered, and if they're open to hearing about it, how you tapered.

that's exactly what I plan to do!

 

but I didn't think about going to a new dr, that might be hard because I have restrictions due to my insurance.

there is a chance that the dr I have now will agree to give me what she'll think is a few more months at 2.5mg (that's the dose I was at when I got the liquid)

well for now things are ok so I will cross this bridge later on, closer to the time when I need to.

 

thanks Scallywag!

I hope this doesn't sound too stupid. So, when you request the liquid from the doctor, you need to request a certain milligram? I wasn't even thinking about that part. I was last on 30 mg. before Cold Turkey. God help me. I assume I would need to request the lowest mg. available? Possibly 2.5? Mine would be ecitalopram. My family doctor wasn't too happy with the request. He told my husband the liquid doesn't even exist and he doesn't believe in withdrawal. My husband thinks he will prescribe it, but I don't know what to do anyway. I wish you all the best of everything Catnapt. You were kind enough to give me some encouragement.

This reinstatement issue sounds so complex. You are a strong person to be dealing with this. God bless you.

[yyeehhaaww]

Hello GIWM, how are you today?

 

1.  One observation I have is you were on xanax for years, I believe you said 5 years.  Is that correct?

 

That is a long time for a benzo.  Benzos are the worst to withdraw from.  

 

Then you weaned it.  How long was your taper?  I believe you said it was done quickly.

 

When did your anxiety begin?  

[yyeehhaaww]

sorry... accidentally did something and it got posted... I was not through.

 

2,   Prior to recent reinstatement, when was your last xanax taken?

 

3.   Did you have bad anxiety when you c/t the abilify and lexapro in September?

 

Then you took another benzo... ativan which was not good.  NEED TO KNOW ANSWER TO #2 to see impact of ativan.  

 

I want you to think about HOW BAD the anxiety was in September.... then compare to xanax withdrawal....

[Godiswithme]

Hello GIWM, how are you today?

 

1. One observation I have is you were on xanax for years, I believe you said 5 years. Is that correct?

 

That is a long time for a benzo. Benzos are the worst to withdraw from.

 

Then you weaned it. How long was your taper? I believe you said it was done quickly.

 

When did your anxiety begin?

I'm doing very poorly. My taper was much much too fast. I had been on .5 3 times per day for a long time. Dropped to .5 AM and .5 PM for at least a year while I was on the AD and Abilify. I upped the Xanax when I first cold turkeyed the AD and Abilify on Sept 4th back to .5 3 times per day for a month? It Wasn't really doing much. Went to family doctor because I was not functional. He prescribed .5 Ativan twice per day. I took that for 2 weeks and 2 days and, at the same time, RAPIDLY - 2 weeks? weaned down Xanax to .25 split into two doses.

I stopped the Ativan without tapering. I didn't think it was long enough. But I upped the Xanax to .25 4 times per day.

My anxiety began a couple weeks after the Cold Turkey of the AD and the Abilify.

[Godiswithme]

sorry... accidentally did something and it got posted... I was not through.

 

2, Prior to recent reinstatement, when was your last xanax taken?

 

3. Did you have bad anxiety when you c/t the abilify and lexapro in September?

 

Then you took another benzo... ativan which was not good. NEED TO KNOW ANSWER TO #2 to see impact of ativan.

 

I want you to think about HOW BAD the anxiety was in September.... then compare to xanax withdrawal....

I had still been taking .25 Xanax split into 2 up until I up dosed to .25 4 times per day.

 

Yes, I had bad anxiety from withdrawal even while I was taking .5 Xanax 3 times per day to try to cope which led me to go to family doctor and get Ativan.

[bubble]

Maybe you mention it somewhere in your thread but I can't see it in your signature: what were the last doses of Lexapro and Abilify that you CT-ed from?

 

Also, could you tell us a bit more about the tongue moving symptom. When did it first appear? What happens to your tongue? Has this symptom been increasing, decreasing or staying the same in intensity?

 

What is your current symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs?

 

Reading throgh your threads it appears that your sympotms are still getting worse despite the increase in Xanax? Would you say that is the case?

[yyeehhaaww]

So you never stopped taking xanax, correct?

 

You went from 1 mg of xanax taken  for a year and then to 1.5 mg in September to .25 in a 2 week taper, correct?  

[Godiswithme]

Maybe you mention it somewhere in your thread but I can't see it in your signature: what were the last doses of Lexapro and Abilify that you CT-ed from?

 

Also, could you tell us a bit more about the tongue moving symptom. When did it first appear? What happens to your tongue? Has this symptom been increasing, decreasing or staying the same in intensity?

 

What is your current symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs?

 

Reading throgh your threads it appears that your sympotms are still getting worse despite the increase in Xanax? Would you say that is the case?

Yes, that is the case. My anxiety is not getting better. I was able to sleep a few more hours, but anxiety is EXTREME.

I ct'd off 30 mg of escitalopram and 2 mg Abilify around Sept 4th. I hope this is in my signature?

 

I've gotten the tongue thing a couple of times where it feels it is pressing on the roof of my mouth. It first appeared 2 weeks ago. And I've had it only one other time since then. It's not out of control.

 

I am usually better at night. I take .25 Xanax 4 times per day. Days are bad.

[yyeehhaaww]

Bubble, I believe she was on 2 mg abilify and 30 mg lexapro

[yyeehhaaww]

GiWM

 

Did your anxiety get worse after you went off ativan and reduced xanax to .25 mg?  

 

Was it worse than after the abilify and lexapro c/t?

[yyeehhaaww]

I do much better at night also.  Came off of 5 other drugs plus xanax August and September.  Xanax was tapered July, August and September and the last and that was when my anxiety began.

 

Xanax is the worst benzo.  

 

1mg of xanax = 10 mg valium

1 mg of ativan = 5 mg valium 

 

So you can see it is far stronger.  I really feel like you are floundering in benzo withdrawal and kindling from changing it so much since September.  .  BUT OF COURSE, YOU HAVE C/T THE ABILIFY AND LEXAPRO.  

 

Did your anxiety get worse or stay the same when you did the xanax taper?

[Godiswithme]

GiWM

 

Did your anxiety get worse after you went off ativan and reduced xanax to .25 mg?

 

Was it worse than after the abilify and lexapro c/t?

Yes. The Ativan seemed to help but I was terrified to stay on another drug. I knew I was already dependent on Xanax.

The anxiety is probably similar to the CT. It's hard to tell. I am basically not functioning. Nothing like I have ever experienced. I have complicated things. I am so scared.

I can't tell if this is benzo withdrawal or still AD snd Abilify.

Or both. I didn't taper the Ativan after 2 weeks and 2 days. Is that a major problem?

[yyeehhaaww]

First, I want you to close your eyes.  Take a deep breath through your nose to a count of 4.  Then blow out through your mouth to a count of 4.  Do this slowly 10 times.  

[Godiswithme]

So you never stopped taking xanax, correct?

 

You went from 1 mg of xanax taken for a year and then to 1.5 mg in September to .25 in a 2 week taper, correct?

Correct, then back up to .25 4 times per day as opposed to .5 twice per day. Before the Cold Turkey, I would not even feel anything from the Xanax. Would never feel it wearing off. Never feel like I needed to take another one. It was just a habit. Never took it at the exact same time.

Now, it is like I am an addict. When it is around time for the next dose, I am a complete mess

[Godiswithme]

I do much better at night also. Came off of 5 other drugs plus xanax August and September. Xanax was tapered July, August and September and the last and that was when my anxiety began.

 

Xanax is the worst benzo.

 

1mg of xanax = 10 mg valium

1 mg of ativan = 5 mg valium

 

So you can see it is far stronger. I really feel like you are floundering in benzo withdrawal and kindling from changing it so much since September. . BUT OF COURSE, YOU HAVE C/T THE ABILIFY AND LEXAPRO.

 

Did your anxiety get worse or stay the same when you did the xanax taper?

I don't even know if I could call it a taper. I felt like I was in hell. I had pain in my chest from morning until night. I wasn't sleeping. When I up dosed, it was good for a couple days, now, just ok. EXTREME ANXIETY.

Thank you