Manny78: multiple psychotropic drugs - which one first?

[Jay78]

12 hours ago, Manny78 said:

Hello everyone,I am really concerned about myself. I really have serious cognitive problems. I want to speak and  I forget what I want to express. Makes me think I am retarded. It happens all the time for example when I have a conversation over Skype.I am doing my best with my taper but I can't speed it up. I TAKE 5 DRUGS. I am really angry. Can't watch TV or read. I know these symptoms come from the drugs.I have checked the drugs interaction checker. Just needed to Vent. I am not very smart but I am not dumb. Anyone has this as serious as me?

 

Manny

 

I get similar s*t Manny and I am on high dosages of two antipsychotics. I feel your pain. Hang in there. It's the drugs doing it. All the clinical data and guidance to doctors mention this, especially if you mess with dopamine you clearly lower concentration, iq, thought patters etc. I am smart with a couple of engineering degrees and I 've followed a couple of career paths with great success and I feel immensely dumb on these meds. 

[Manny78]

14 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

I'm only tapering one drug, Pristiq, and I'm on a very low dose now, 0.625mg started at 100mg, and I have times when I (can - correction) cannot find the words I want to use.

 

Lots of other members have mentioned that they have the same issue.

 

brain-fog-blank-mind-comprehension-concentration-cognitive-and-memory-problems

 

Hopefully as you reduce your drug load things will start to improve.

 

 

 

Hi ChessieCat. I read your comments in your website how are you tapering Pristiq . How percentage are you tapering now? You are doing a very good job. Unfortunately we cannot rely on medical professionals. It is my experience.

[Manny78]

15 hours ago, Jay78 said:

 

I get similar s*t Manny and I am on high dosages of two antipsychotics. I feel your pain. Hang in there. It's the drugs doing it. All the clinical data and guidance to doctors mention this, especially if you mess with dopamine you clearly lower concentration, iq, thought patters etc. I am smart with a couple of engineering degrees and I 've followed a couple of career paths with great success and I feel immensely dumb on these meds. 

I am very sorry Jay78.I have a degree in Networking Administration,but I can't work on that because I forgot mostly of what I have learned. I can't homologate my degree because it was issued by a Community College in the USA. I tried but it is very difficult. 

[Jay78]

Hang in there. As far as meds go, things can only get better.

[Manny78]

Hi everyone. I have noticed that I have been gaining weight with the ability taper. I was in 100 kilos. Now,I am in close to 102 kilos.When to physical therapist because  I had hips ,back,glutes and leg pain.This is a never ending process of withdrawal symptoms. I have to be determined to keep tapering. My question is how you guys do with with pain and withdrawal sxs? I always go out and walk even more than  I should with aka,but I find myself more tired,just wanting to be in bed.Otherwise,I will be pacing all the time.While in bed I have contorsion in torso and legs movements. I think physical therapy helped me a lot. Did you guys who are in abilify wd gained more weight? Do you have a voracious appetite? Should I keep tapering at a high rate? Now,I am reducing 5 percent per month. 

[ChessieCat]

37 minutes ago, Manny78 said:

Should I keep tapering at a high rate? Now,I am reducing 5 percent per month.

 

How do you feel after you reduce by 5%?

 

If you feel okay then you could try reducing by a bit more, perhaps 7.5% and see how that goes.  If that goes okay then you could increase it to 10%.

 

37 minutes ago, Manny78 said:

When to physical therapist because  I had hips ,back,glutes and leg pain.This is a never ending process of withdrawal symptoms. I have to be determined to keep tapering. My question is how you guys do with with pain and withdrawal sxs? I always go out and walk even more than  I should with aka,but I find myself more tired,just wanting to be in bed.Otherwise,I will be pacing all the time.While in bed I have contorsion in torso and legs movements. I think physical therapy helped me a lot.

 

My suggestion would be to continue seeing the physical therapist and get strengthening exercises.  This is what I am currently doing.  I have been sitting a lot over the last 5 years and haven't been very active.  I had a bulging disc in June (now better) but now I am having trouble with my muscles.  Of course this started before the injury but since the injury I now have some weak muscles and some tense muscles and because I did hydro every day for 1 month I got tired glute muscles so I had to cut back on how much I was doing and let them rest. 

 

What happens when we have some weak/tired muscles is that we use other muscles, ie we compensate.  The muscles we use become stronger and/or tense and/or tired and the other muscles get weaker because we aren't using them.

 

Basically it means learning to use all of your muscles the right way and to build up strength.  Since the beginning of this week I have started working on my core strength with pilates exercises which the physiotherapist taught me.  I was very surprised that she told me to start walking faster than I was, and just for 10 minutes, every day.  I think it's because it makes me use my core muscles better.  And already I'm starting to notice the difference. She wants me to go to the pilates class she teaches so that I can learn more exercises to do at home.  She was going to teach them to me one to one, but I don't have health insurance cover so it is cheaper for me to go to a class.

 

Of course, please check with your therapist to find out what exercises are suitable to you.

 

This one is a really good one to start with.  You don't need a roller but I found it better with a roller.  Even just lying on the roller and keeping it still works the core muscles.

 

https://physioonaroll.com.au/exercises/basic-exercises/basic-abdominals-bent-knee-fall-out/

 

Another one is to lie on your back and point one leg in the air and draw circles with your toe, both clockwise and anticlockwise.

 

Other exercises are heel raises, squats, knees raises (lying down, with pelvic tilt), glute bridge (lying down, with pelvic tilt and squeezing a large round object with the knees which makes the glutes work better - I'm using a large tupperware container because a toilet roll or paper towel roll wasn't fat enough).

 

Stretches:  quadriceps, hamstrings (do not stretch leg completely, keep knee a bit bent).

 

You might find this video helpful in understanding how the gluteal muscles work and how everything is interrelated with the hip and knees.  This guy has some really good videos.  He is a teacher and creates these videos for his students.  I found it helpful in understanding why the physiotherapist is getting me to do what she is.  And I had started walking the way he shows in the video because my glute muscles were tired.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p-YGhlRPhM&t=75s

Edited October 29, 2020 by ChessieCat

[Manny78]

Thank you,

On 10/29/2020 at 5:38 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

How do you feel after you reduce by 5%?

 

If you feel okay then you could try reducing by a bit more, perhaps 7.5% and see how that goes.  If that goes okay then you could increase it to 10%.

 

 

My suggestion would be to continue seeing the physical therapist and get strengthening exercises.  This is what I am currently doing.  I have been sitting a lot over the last 5 years and haven't been very active.  I had a bulging disc in June (now better) but now I am having trouble with my muscles.  Of course this started before the injury but since the injury I now have some weak muscles and some tense muscles and because I did hydro every day for 1 month I got tired glute muscles so I had to cut back on how much I was doing and let them rest. 

 

What happens when we have some weak/tired muscles is that we use other muscles, ie we compensate.  The muscles we use become stronger and/or tense and/or tired and the other muscles get weaker because we aren't using them.

 

Basically it means learning to use all of your muscles the right way and to build up strength.  Since the beginning of this week I have started working on my core strength with pilates exercises which the physiotherapist taught me.  I was very surprised that she told me to start walking faster than I was, and just for 10 minutes, every day.  I think it's because it makes me use my core muscles better.  And already I'm starting to notice the difference. She wants me to go to the pilates class she teaches so that I can learn more exercises to do at home.  She was going to teach them to me one to one, but I don't have health insurance cover so it is cheaper for me to go to a class.

 

Of course, please check with your therapist to find out what exercises are suitable to you.

 

This one is a really good one to start with.  You don't need a roller but I found it better with a roller.  Even just lying on the roller and keeping it still works the core muscles.

 

https://physioonaroll.com.au/exercises/basic-exercises/basic-abdominals-bent-knee-fall-out/

 

Another one is to lie on your back and point one leg in the air and draw circles with your toe, both clockwise and anticlockwise.

 

Other exercises are heel raises, squats, knees raises (lying down, with pelvic tilt), glute bridge (lying down, with pelvic tilt and squeezing a large round object with the knees which makes the glutes work better - I'm using a large tupperware container because a toilet roll or paper towel roll wasn't fat enough).

 

Stretches:  quadriceps, hamstrings (do not stretch leg completely, keep knee a bit bent).

 

You might find this video helpful in understanding how the gluteal muscles work and how everything is interrelated with the hip and knees.  This guy has some really good videos.  He is a teacher and creates these videos for his students.  I found it helpful in understanding why the physiotherapist is getting me to do what she is.  And I had started walking the way he shows in the video because my glute muscles were tired.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p-YGhlRPhM&t=75s

Thank you, ChessieCat. 

[Hopela]

Hi Manny78

On 10/29/2020 at 5:01 AM, Manny78 said:

Did you guys who are in abilify wd gained more weight?

I recently quit around 2 - 2.5 months of abilify 5-15mg . I have gained weight. It could be due to worse eating habits too. My weight has surprised me though.

[Manny78]

Hi @hopela. I don't understand in more or less 2 or 2 months in a half you have tapered what amount of abilify? I am tapering 5 percent a month. I am not good at math. My psychiatrist doesn't want me to taper any further the abilify to 10mgs. I have a lot of cognitive problems and akathisia. 

I don't eat very well. I take 2 antipsychotics, abilify and risperdal,one antidepressant, cymbalta, klonopin and biperiden 

 

[Manny78]

Doc:Good morning,I am calling for Manny.I am your GP.

 

Me:Good morning,I went the other day,October 27th,to the neurologist and he requested to do a blood work.

 

Doc:Hold on.Give me a second while I look it up the consultation.The neurolist said you are better from akathisia(I said I was bad,I have Akathisia and I need to pace all the time,plus muscular pain).

 

 He ordered new blood test,inmunitary study,copper and ceruloplasmina.Later study the possibility to increase KLONOPIN.

 

These people doesn´t understand brain damage.

[Hopela]

On 10/31/2020 at 12:43 AM, Manny78 said:

I don't understand in more or less 2 or 2 months in a half you have tapered what amount of abilify?

After being on abilify averaging 10mg for approximately just two months I tapered down (I just let the injection dissipate) from 10mg to 0 mg in perhaps just one month! 

 

I had a short time on abilify. I think I have a good tolerance to tapering. Injections means zero kindling between doses, while on them and while going off, and also no jump off to zero point. I was concurrently on olanzapine which might have hidden withdrawal symptoms. I had a backup plan to take tablets if withdrawal symptoms got out of hand but I didn't need to. Those factors were to my advantage. I know people have a difficult time coming off abilify even with injections but somehow I was able too.  

 

 

 

 

[Manny78]

Hi group. I am now at 9 ml of abilify but I keep having bad akathisia. I keep going out to walk,but I have to sit down because I get tired. I feel very depressed and I don't know with whom to talk about. I am an introvert person.I know it has to be WD,the depression. I don't want to try more drugs but I feel brain fog.  My short term memory is bad. I can't concentrate. I have pain in my hips,quadriceps,ankle,arms,shoulders and head. 

[Manny78]

Happy new year 2021 everyone.I wish all of us a healing year.I think I have reached tolerance with these drugs.The moment I take my abilify dose (ABILIFY 8,6ML now),my Akathisia starts getting bad. What do you guys think? 

[Manny78]

How are you,dtid? Sorry for not replying before.  I was not notified in my hotmail account. I am going through the same thing as you. My cognition is very bad still. I don't  retain much of what I read.I stay in my bed most of the time. I am being hit badly because of my last cut. I am at 8,4ml of abilify. Symptoms include itchy legs,muscle pain, lower back pain and necessity to pace,restless legs. I don't know what to do. I might be tempted to take more biperiden. I don't know  if that will help. I need to get off of abilify. 

[Manny78]

Hi everyone.Anyone doing  abilify water tritation and liquid solution? I am doing this. I do 5ml of water tritation with a 10MG abilify pill and 3,4ml of abilify 1mg/1ml oral solution. What is your tapering plan? AM I DOING SOMETHING WRONG?

I can't stand my symptoms,itchy and restless legs,lower back pain,Akathisia (necessity to pace all the time). 

 

[Manny78]

Anyone has experience with an antihistamine called ebastina 10MG? I have itchy legs. 

[Manny78]

I have a question for those of you who have akathisia. I am tapering abilify,currently at 8ml.At what rate are you tapering? I am tapering 4% monthly. My symptoms are inner agitation,restless legs,marching or pacing,muscle pain. In addition to abilify 8ml I am taking risperidona 0,86ml, Cymbalta 60mg,klonopin 0, 25mg,and biperiden 4m extended release.

Manny

[Manny78]

I went to the neurologist today. He said that acatisia is a side effect of neuroleptics and that it could go away with decreasing aps or just stay. I kind I expected to hear that. 

 

Can I recover from akathisia and dystonia? It will take me years to come off of all psychiatric meds.

 

 

[Manny78]

Hi everyone. I am tapering abilify. Now at 7,6ml. Has anyone tried propranolol for akathisia? I am reducing abilify very slowly, 0,2ml every two weeks. I can't cope with this inner akathisia. I read that Propranolol can help but scared to try a need drug. I am taking biperiden 4mg extended release. Should I discontinue biperiden if I switch to propranolol? 

[Manny78]

Can anyone explain me what do you understand for tardive psychosis? I can't sleep because I hear voices,and I have inner tremors. I think I have drug induced psychosis. I made a cut 2 days ago with my abilify(April 6th,2021).I also tapered risperidona to 0,80ml on March 23th,2021.Then I went up to 0,84ml on March 27th,2021 and finally back to 0,86ml on April 4th, 2021. I tapered two antipsychotics in a very short time. 

[Colonial]

Hi Manny its so nice nice to hear from You again! 🙂

 

More than one drug change in a short period is can be trouble.

You made 4 changes with 2 drugs in only 14 days.

 

I hallucinated bugs in the sink once after dropping too much Paxil.

I also hallucinated technically, by smelling things that were not present from dropping Wellbutrin.

 

Your system is very sensitive, you do know that.

0,86ml 8/28/20; 0,80ml 3/24/21;0,84ml 3/27/21; 0,86ml 4/4/21/

 

What happened after March 24th that you increased the Risperdal back up on March 27th after only dropping it 3 days earlier on the 24th?  That probably should have been ok, why did you reinstate all the way back up to the0.86  a week later?

 

If a drop is too much, you can increase but you don't need to go all the way back up to the dose you have been on before.

 

After going back all the way up to the 0.86, only 2 days later, you dropped the abilify on April 6.

That is not a good plan.

You need more time in between changing different medications.

 

What happened after dropping the Risperdal that made you raise it 2 times, and what new symptoms did you get in the past 2 days since dropping the abilify?

 

WD can cause psychosis like issues if your dropping too much med at once

It does not mean you have tardive psychosis from being ON the medication.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Colonial

[Manny78]

Hi Colonial.Nice talking to you back again. I thought I could handle the risperidona cuts.I wanted to hurry up my taper but I made a mistake stopping the abilify first and resuming the risperidona. I should have waited and not tapered both in a such short time frame. Every time I take abilify I get akathisia sxs. Before they were outer akathisia and now I have inner aka. 

[Manny78]

6 hours ago, Colonial said:

Hi Manny its so nice nice to hear from You again! 🙂

 

More than one drug change in a short period is can be trouble.

You made 4 changes with 2 drugs in only 14 days.

 

I hallucinated bugs in the sink once after dropping too much Paxil.

I also hallucinated technically, by smelling things that were not present from dropping Wellbutrin. 

I had auditory hallucinations. It is not the only time it happened. I have had them when I try to sleep. 

6 hours ago, Colonial said:

 

Your system is very sensitive, you do know that.

0,86ml 8/28/20; 0,80ml 3/24/21;0,84ml 3/27/21; 0,86ml 4/4/21/

 

What happened after March 24th that you increased the Risperdal back up on March 27th after only dropping it 3 days earlier on the 24th?  I was having outer akathisia really bad. I couldn't walk too much. I had wd sxs like back,hips,and leg pain. 

 

That probably should have been ok, why did you reinstate all the way back up to the0.86  a week later?

 

If a drop is too much, you can increase but you don't need to go all the way back up to the dose you have been on before.

I didn't know. 

6 hours ago, Colonial said:

 

After going back all the way up to the 0.86, only 2 days later, you dropped the abilify on April 6.

That is not a good plan.

You need more time in between changing different medications.

 

What happened after dropping the Risperdal that made you raise it 2 times, and what new symptoms did you get in the past 2 days since dropping the abilify?

 

WD can cause psychosis like issues if your dropping too much med at once

It does not mean you have tardive psychosis from being ON the medication.

 

 

 

[Manny78]

Just now, Manny78 said:

I had auditory hallucinations. It is not the only time it happened. I have had them when I try to sleep. 

I didn't know. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Manny78 said:

I had auditory hallucinations. It is not the only time it happened. I have had them when I try to sleep. 

I didn't know. 

 

New sxs are inner agitation or inner akathisia . I have chest vibrations. I don't know if I should go back to 7,8ml since it is the 3rd day on abilify 7,6ml. 

[gdsequoia]

On 4/8/2021 at 8:25 AM, Manny78 said:

Can anyone explain me what do you understand for tardive psychosis? I can't sleep because I hear voices,and I have inner tremors. I think I have drug induced psychosis.

Hi Manny,

IIRC your original diagnosis (for which you started taking medications in the first place) was schizophrenia. So I think you have simply gone below the minimal Risperidone dose necessary to protect you from your schizophrenia. No matter how carefully you taper, I think there's a minimal Risperidone dose that you will have to take for life.

[gdsequoia]

About your itchy legs:

 

I used to have itches all over my body. My dermatologist prescribed "Uriage Xemose" (a moisturizing cream) for some parts of my body and a "drying" cream for my feet. They helped quickly and permanently.

 

I also asked her if she could give me something with instant effect (since I was just starting a new job, and wanted to make a good impression). She gave me Aerius pills (generic name: desloratadine) - they are a kind of very benign antihistamine. They did help instantly.

 

Note that antihistamines work by lowering your body's immune response, so they can make you an easier target for COVID-19.

[Manny78]

6 hours ago, gdsequoia said:

Hi Manny,

IIRC your original diagnosis (for which you started taking medications in the first place) was schizophrenia. So I think you have simply gone below the minimal Risperidone dose necessary to protect you from your schizophrenia. No matter how carefully you taper, I think there's a minimal Risperidone dose that you will have to take for life.

Hi gdsequoia.Thanks for replying. I don't want does IIRC mean? Yes,I have a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia,but that was given to me by the psychiatrists.I don't necessary agree with it because I didn't hear voices prior to be put on Gedeon 80mg(1-1-1).I was having obsessions though. I am in a low dose of risperidone 0,86ml.I want to think that I will be able to taper everything,but I respect your advice.In fact I won't be touching my dose of risperidona of 0,86ml.Now tapering abilify 7,4ml. I just I don't understand why I have to be in 2 aps that they are very similar and they act on the same receptors and that they are causing me aka. I suspect my aka is because of my taper of abilify. After I take it I start to feel bad,restless legs and inner agitation.Maybe you are right that I need to be on risperidone 1mg. I appreciate you and I wish you good luck on your taper gdsequoia. I want to take minimal dose. I will comment on the itching legs. Thanks buddy. 

 

[Manny78]

7 hours ago, gdsequoia said:

About your itchy legs:

 

I used to have itches all over my body. My dermatologist prescribed "Uriage Xemose" (a moisturizing cream) for some parts of my body and a "drying" cream for my feet. They helped quickly and permanently.

 

I also asked her if she could give me something with instant effect (since I was just starting a new job, and wanted to make a good impression). She gave me Aerius pills (generic name: desloratadine) - they are a kind of very benign antihistamine. They did help instantly.

 

Note that antihistamines work by lowering your body's immune response, so they can make you an easier target for COVID-19.

Thank you. I will consult with my gp. 

[gdsequoia]

You're welcome!

IIRC=If I Recall Correctly

 

> I was having obsessions though
What kind of obsessions, if you don't mind sharing? Are they like "OCD-type obsessions" like mine are?

 

> I just I don't understand why I have to be in 2 aps that they are very similar and they act on the same receptors

Have your doctors given an explanation for it?

 

By the way, Abilify is considered the most benign of all antipsychotics - I know, because I asked my doctor 3 days ago.

[Hopela]

Abilify has a benign sounding name whereas many APs sound as evil as they are. Abilify also doesn't make you as tired as some other APs. In fact I had problems even staying in bed at night and got zero rest zero sleep some nights. I was "sentenced" to Olanzapine injections but was able to convince the dr of getting Abilify instead since my perception was it was comparatively "benign". Having gotten it I'd say it's also bad but in another way. As "benign" as it is this decade old video from a former spokesperson for Bristol Myers Squibb is of this opinion:

 

He concludes: "Ask your doctor if Abilify is wrong for you".

I would say asking is fine if you're already on it and as long as you don't accept the answer uncritically.

[gdsequoia]

@Manny78

> I was having obsessions though
Ah, I remember. Those religious obsessions. You've told me about them.

Were you able to work and function before you started taking medications?

 

@Hopela

Thanks for the explanation! In my case, my doctor switched me from Amisulpride (Solian) to Aripiprazole (Abilify) years ago and I'm happy he did.

[Manny78]

7 hours ago, gdsequoia said:

@Manny78

> I was having obsessions though
Ah, I remember. Those religious obsessions. You've told me about them.

Were you able to work and function before you started taking medications? Yes I was able to work. I have not worked for many years. At least a paid job. 

 

@Hopela

Thanks for the explanation! In my case, my doctor switched me from Amisulpride (Solian) to Aripiprazole (Abilify) years ago and I'm happy he did.

 

[Manny78]

On 4/20/2021 at 7:00 AM, gdsequoia said:

You're welcome!

IIRC=If I Recall Correctly

 

> I was having obsessions though
What kind of obsessions, if you don't mind sharing? Are they like "OCD-type obsessions" like mine are?Yes I had religious obsessions. 

 

> I just I don't understand why I have to be in 2 aps that they are very similar and they act on the same receptors

Have your doctors given an explanation for it?

No explanation from them. I never requested it though. 

On 4/20/2021 at 7:00 AM, gdsequoia said:

 

By the way, Abilify is considered the most benign of all antipsychotics - I know, because I asked my doctor 3 days ago.

 

[Manny78]

On 4/20/2021 at 1:12 PM, Hopela said:

Abilify has a benign sounding name whereas many APs sound as evil as they are. Abilify also doesn't make you as tired as some other APs. In fact I had problems even staying in bed at night and got zero rest zero sleep some nights. I was "sentenced" to Olanzapine injections but was able to convince the dr of getting Abilify instead since my perception was it was comparatively "benign". Having gotten it I'd say it's also bad but in another way. As "benign" as it is this decade old video from a former spokesperson for Bristol Myers Squibb is of this opinion:

 

He concludes: "Ask your doctor if Abilify is wrong for you".

I would say asking is fine if you're already on it and as long as you don't accept the answer uncritically.

HI Hopela. I agree with you. It take abilify in the morning, 7,4ml. It is giving me all kind of crazy sxs.The worse one is akathisia. I like his last words: Ask your doctor if abilify is wrong for you.For me all antipsychotics are bad. I am so sorry you had to take Zyprexa injections. 

 

[gdsequoia]

16 hours ago, Manny78 said:

Yes I was able to work. I have not worked for many years. At least a paid job. 

I see! In that case, I support you in wanting to get off all meds. But, as other posters have said, it is probably best to taper just 1 med at a time. Not Abilify and Risperidone at the same time. Just 1 of them.

[Manny78]

I need help. I am suffering akathisia. Can't take this anymore. My sxs are tremors, pacing, rls legs,back pain. Currently tapering abilify 7,4ml and on other 4 drugs more (risperidone, Cymbalta, klonopin and biperiden).