Derealization or Depersonalization (DR and DP)

[mustafa]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:41 PM, ElaineBenes5 said:

@Tranquilpeace hi, I am experiencing dp/Dr/dissociation I believe and also could use help figuring this out. 
 

I thought I was experiencing akathisa, which I may have been, but the worst part of that or the lingering part of that seems to be more like depersonalization/dissociation. 
 

Here’s how I experience it: I’ll feel something is “off.” It sort of feels like that scene in Get Out where he is falling away from everything in the sunken place- only it doesn’t actually feel that way, it feels like that’s ABOUT to happen. It’s like something is blocking my brain, and I just see what’s in front of me, mostly- without connecting to my thoughts/feelings/consciousness about it. I feel cut off from my consciousness. It’s like I’m here, but I’m sort of lost somewhere inside of myself, trapped, and then I panic. 
 

it’s almost like sleep paralysis, but I’m awake, my eyes are open, I’m moving. 
 

it’s very upsetting and causes panic and discomfort. It makes a lot of things unenjoyable because I’m not interacting with what’s around me- I feel trapped inside, blocked off from it. It makes me worried and have intrusive thoughts like what it I go crazy, this is psychosis, I’ll lose touch with reality and my brain will truly switch off, what if I hurt myself or do something harmful, etc. then I panic more about these thoughts…. 
 

Is this in keeping with dp/Dr? It’s my most distressing symptom whatever it is. I went 12 days without experiencing it largely, but today it was back. 
 

I believe you also mentioned something Alto wrote about this… could you link here?

 

@mustafa @Dragoon909i would appreciate your perspectives here as well! 

Hi elain,

Yess, thats typical DP. I suffered all what you said many times. You feel like your mind can't recall anything at all, your head is empty and i felt alot too that i can see things but it is like my brain has difficulty analyzing whats going on. I had problems in responding to action. It is like your brain never urges you to act and what makes you respond to actions is only you instinct that you know previously that in this kind of situations,i should respond in such a way. Does that makes sense? I know how painful this can be. But believe me, nothing serious will happen.( Except that the synptomts themselves are stink 😂)

What i found helpful was food diets sometimes. Try to avoid fats as much as you can, spicy foods, caffeine drinks. They all were increasing DP feeling for me. Fish and banana and histamine releasing foods can have an impact too. Chicken is so good for me to eat. And aha bread is also bad ( not all gluten products but bread and coockies especially). 

I hope you find this helpful..

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Tranquilpeace]

@ElaineBenes5

 

Hello, 

 

I am not the most experienced in this WD thing or adverse reaction thing as I am fairly new to it and am trying to learn as much as I can and interact with those who are battle tested so to speak.

 

However I know exactly what you are describing and you hit the nail on the head with your description of this symptom.

 

For me the onset of WD was intrusive thoughts about harming the ones I love the most. Then the physical symptoms suicidal symptoms followed. One day I suddenly felt like I was living in a dream etc. But looking back during onset of symptoms I remember feeling like I was living in their person. Like a video game watching myself go through life battling to get back into my mind if that makes sense.

 

Then all these other DP and DR symptoms followed.

 

I can tell you, you most definitely fit the description of DP DR for sure and you most certainly seem like your experiencing it. Especially the psychosis and feeling like your loosing your mind. I feel the same exact way when the DP DR climaxes throughout the day or randomly strikes. Crazy thing is I am going on 3 months post cold turkey nortriptyline and am still having problems like this.

 

The best thing I have found to cope is much like others have described, remember you're still able to question what's going on, the whole crazy people don't know their crazy thing. You recognize you're having a strange crazy symptom so that eliminated the psychosis aspect. 

 

I practice a lot of double breathing, huge inhale through the nose until your lungs are filled and then one quick extra inhale followed by slow exhale through the mouth, it works wonders. Hot baths showers with Epsom salt are amazing, and tension teas chamomile etc also do wonders.

 

Then the biggest thing is distracting yourself, occupy yourself with whatever you enjoy in life to keep your mind busy. That helps you forget the DR DP until it subsides.

 

For me it gets hard sometimes cause of the intrusive thoughts and guilt associated with having them while I did. Sometimes I'm loving on my wife and kids and my mind says "oh shi*!!! Remember those messed up crazy thoughts!!!!!?!????!!!" And they come back because of it. So I have had to find ways to cope with that. 

 

And honestly coming here and reading others experiences helps so much for me cause it lets me know I'm not alone and I'm not a headcase. It may not be the healthiest coping mechanism but it helps me a great deal.

 

I will go back and try to find the post from Alto and then lost the link. Give me a few minutes. It's on one of the previous pages on this post.

 

Don't be afraid to reach out!! I check my profile often after what I went through cause I don't want to miss on helping someone during such fear and torment

[Tranquilpeace]

On 7/21/2011 at 7:06 PM, Altostrata said:

Many of us have experienced that bizarre and distressing feeling called depersonalization as an antidepressant withdrawal symptom. It exists outside of antidepressant withdrawal as well. This is an article about depersonalization as defined by mental health professionals.

 

Do You Feel Like a Stranger to Yourself?

By Elena Bezzubova, M.D., Ph.D. Psychology Today Jul 21 2011

 

I am often asked, even by colleagues in the mental health field, "What is Depersonalization Disorder?" For doctors and patients alike, Depersonalization Disorder, or DPD, is somewhat mysterious and difficult to define. And yet, some researchers consider it to be the third most common mental disorder, after depression and anxiety. Several research studies indicate that more than half of college students have experienced elements of depersonalization at one time or another. And many creative people, such as Poe or Sartre, have suffered from it. Deuce Bigelow director Harris Goldberg explored his experiences of depersonalization in the movie Numb.

 

Depersonalization may happen when you first wake up, or while flying on an airplane. You may link it to acute trauma or years of chronic stress, or to nothing at all. Sometimes it happens after smoking marijuana or using "club drugs."

 

The first signs are often felt as a "mental break." Suddenly, inexplicably, something changes --- common objects and familiar situations seem strange or foreign, as if you've found yourself in an unfamiliar world. And at the same time you feel unreal, "not yourself." You close your eyes and turn inward, but the very thoughts running through your head seem different. Patients feel as if they have no self that formerly enabled them to deal with the world around them, and with their inner world.

 

The most clinically true and psychologically sharp descriptions of depersonalization are those given by people with DPD. In his excellent book, Stranger to Myself, medical journalist and DPD survivor Jeffrey Abugel summarizes eight symptoms a person with DPD may experience:

 

 

• Feeling panic. When a person first experiences DPD, he often feels as if he is going mad. Patients report feeling panic stricken, trapped "inside oneself" or thrown into an unfamiliar world they can't escape.
• Lack of emotion. People with DPD describe feeling inhuman, like a robot or a rock. They experience a loss of spirit, "absence" of emotions, and no mood changes.
• Feeling detached. People with DPD feel distant from others and themselves. Many describe the feeling of watching themselves, as if from above. Once-familiar objects seem strange.
• Fixation/obsession. People with DPD repeatedly check their sanity. They sometimes fixate on the strangeness or foreignness of a single thought or object.
• Abstract ruminating. People with DPD often dwell on the ideas of eternity and infinity. They think over and over about the nature of existence or the void and the dark mysteries of life.
• Lifestyle changes. People with DPD are sometimes afraid to leave their houses or engage in activities that might trigger panic attacks. They stop traveling, talking to others, watching TV, even going to doctors.
• Feeling possessed. People with DPD in some cases report feeling as if an evil entity has taken up residence inside their head, watching them and making negative comments.
• Acting "as if." People with DPD suffer from not feeling that they are acting, but instead they have a strange feeling of "as-if acting." They feel that they "imitate" moods and expressions, as if trying to "act normal" around others. But they continue to feel like outsiders who aren't part of ordinary life.

....

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-search-self/201107/do-you-feel-stranger-yourself

@ElaineBenes5

 

Here is Altos post

[Dragoon909]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:00 AM, mustafa said:

Hi elain,

Yess, thats typical DP. I suffered all what you said many times. You feel like your mind can't recall anything at all, your head is empty and i felt alot too that i can see things but it is like my brain has difficulty analyzing whats going on. I had problems in responding to action. It is like your brain never urges you to act and what makes you respond to actions is only you instinct that you know previously that in this kind of situations,i should respond in such a way. Does that makes sense? I know how painful this can be. But believe me, nothing serious will happen.( Except that the synptomts themselves are stink 😂)

What i found helpful was food diets sometimes. Try to avoid fats as much as you can, spicy foods, caffeine drinks. They all were increasing DP feeling for me. Fish and banana and histamine releasing foods can have an impact too. Chicken is so good for me to eat. And aha bread is also bad ( not all gluten products but bread and coockies especially). 

I hope you find this helpful..

 

Something else to add to that list is:

Progresso Soup (no msg)

 

May sound strange, but I find ibuprofen to knock the edge off the dr and dp, especially at night.

I guess because ibuprofen lowers cortisol. 

200mg-400mg every few hours around the clock.

 

Of course I didn't find this by accident.  I have covid at the time, and I noticed after taking ibuprofen,  the dr got some better. 

Weirdness...

[mustafa]

3 hours ago, Dragoon909 said:

Something else to add to that list is:

Progresso Soup (no msg)

 

May sound strange, but I find ibuprofen to knock the edge off the dr and dp, especially at night.

I guess because ibuprofen lowers cortisol. 

200mg-400mg every few hours around the clock.

 

Of course I didn't find this by accident.  I have covid at the time, and I noticed after taking ibuprofen,  the dr got some better. 

Weirdness...

I don't know about this. I just chosed foods that were all the times gentle to my stomach. Some other foods and drugs worked once and once didn't work, or in fact they worsened the sympyomts and that includes all kinds of drugs. So i would recommend being careful about having any drugs( up on my experience for sure). 

 

[Dragoon909]

3 hours ago, mustafa said:

I don't know about this. I just chosed foods that were all the times gentle to my stomach. Some other foods and drugs worked once and once didn't work, or in fact they worsened the sympyomts and that includes all kinds of drugs. So i would recommend being careful about having any drugs( up on my experience for sure). 

 

I was iffy about taking the ibuprofen,  but when you have covid...not much of a choice. 

I've had it the past 7 days,  and ibuprofen is the only thing that helps. 

I am iffy about others like Alkaseltzer (sp?).

 

The ibuprofen takes the edge off the dr for me. 

 

These covid chills and pains on top of the dr are too much. I have no choice in the matter. I have to take the ibuprofen. 

 

So, if someone else gets covid, just be sure to test whatever med by just a little of it first. 

God willing, no one gets it while dealing with mental symptoms. It's not fun at all. 

No smell, no taste, chills, aches and increases anxiety knowing you have it. 

[mustafa]

56 minutes ago, Dragoon909 said:

I was iffy about taking the ibuprofen,  but when you have covid...not much of a choice. 

I've had it the past 7 days,  and ibuprofen is the only thing that helps. 

I am iffy about others like Alkaseltzer (sp?).

 

The ibuprofen takes the edge off the dr for me. 

 

These covid chills and pains on top of the dr are too much. I have no choice in the matter. I have to take the ibuprofen. 

 

So, if someone else gets covid, just be sure to test whatever med by just a little of it first. 

God willing, no one gets it while dealing with mental symptoms. It's not fun at all. 

No smell, no taste, chills, aches and increases anxiety knowing you have it. 

Iam sorry to hear about your suffer with covid along with DR. It must have been like brutal in times. And its good you are ok with ibubrofen and it helps. 

As you wished i would say god willing all of us recover too soon🙏

Have a great night.

Mustafa

[Elaine5]

@Tranquilpeaceindid the breathing with extra inhale and wow, that is great deescalation tool. It worked and I’m using that from now on.

 

 

@mustafa and @Dragoon909 thanks for sharing your experiences here. 
 

do you guys have anhedonia as well? When I feel depersonalization it’s like also a lack of joy/pleasure/reaction from anything. Which makes “changing the channel” really hard. I’ve just been trying to keep from panicking and distracting on my phone even though it’s not really enjoyable. 
 

some days I’ve felt mostly normal and then other days I’m depersonalized for almost the whole day. Is that normal for this? 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Dragoon909]

Elaine, 

I have had a lack of joy, enthusiasm and happiness. I've had the lack of emotions for a little over 2 months now. 

I think my derealization and depersonalization were caused by stress. It's so important after you heal to keep stress around a minimum. 

 

Derealization and depersonalization make ppl feel and think all kinds of things. This state of mind is not YOU! It's temporary, and finding ways to cope is the only thing ppl can do. 

Sleep is also important: the less sleep, the more you feel out of it. 

 

I hope you feel better soon. But yes, I do have the lack of joy and happiness.  Sometimes,  completely blank minded. 

[mustafa]

12 minutes ago, Dragoon909 said:

Elaine, 

I have had a lack of joy, enthusiasm and happiness. I've had the lack of emotions for a little over 2 months now. 

I think my derealization and depersonalization were caused by stress. It's so important after you heal to keep stress around a minimum. 

 

Derealization and depersonalization make ppl feel and think all kinds of things. This state of mind is not YOU! It's temporary, and finding ways to cope is the only thing ppl can do. 

Sleep is also important: the less sleep, the more you feel out of it. 

 

I hope you feel better soon. But yes, I do have the lack of joy and happiness.  Sometimes,  completely blank minded. 

I don't have alot to add here. Sometimes i felt lack of feeling extremely. I like the word blank mentioned here, thats exactly how to describe your feeling when DP hits. It is so normal yes. even though knowing this doesn't necessarily help that DP goes away, but of course it will help stop panicking about abnormal feelings.

[Elaine5]

So I’ve accepted that I’m going to feel depersonalized and weird for a while. Whether it’s from protracted withdrawl, the current meds, or both, it doesn’t really matter.  I know that it will eventually get better and so I’m just pretending it’s not there as much as I can. 
 

Today I got dressed up like I used to, went to town, did everything I wanted to do even though it felt weird- some moments I enjoyed! I could continue to freak out internally that something feels off, but I’m too exhausted to keep doing that. It doesn’t make the depersonalization go away if I panic. It just makes me more dissociated if anything. So, if I’m going to be depersonalized, I might as well do it in style? 
 

[Dragoon909]

1 hour ago, ElaineBenes5 said:

So I’ve accepted that I’m going to feel depersonalized and weird for a while. Whether it’s from protracted withdrawl, the current meds, or both, it doesn’t really matter.  I know that it will eventually get better and so I’m just pretending it’s not there as much as I can. 
 

Today I got dressed up like I used to, went to town, did everything I wanted to do even though it felt weird- some moments I enjoyed! I could continue to freak out internally that something feels off, but I’m too exhausted to keep doing that. It doesn’t make the depersonalization go away if I panic. It just makes me more dissociated if anything. So, if I’m going to be depersonalized, I might as well do it in style? 
 

Lol, I'm the same way. 

The entire time I've had the derealization,  I've shopped every other day. I can't just sit at the house. I own my own business,  so I have to be functional.  It can be hell and tiring...but I push myself. 

 

You'll eventually get better, no doubt. It's just the stress and changes to your body are taxing to the brain. Psych meds do a number on us! 

 

My derealization has fluctuated the past few weeks: hopefully it's getting better. 

 

Just keep going! It's all about remaining steadfast and vigilant. 

 

 

[Rusdan]

I've been withdrawing from fluoxetine (Prozac) since early 2020, a long journey. At present I'm taking 0.58 mg of liquid fluoxetine and have been holding at that dose for going on four months. I don't like to report this, but I have experienced continuous derealization for many years. Its intensity grew in summer 2019 after I switched from Effexor and Wellbutrin (after three years of it) to Prozac. The DR was better under the first two drug, but it did not go away. So my psychiatrist at the time guided me in switching off the first two and on to fluoxetine, which I had taken before with success--until it stopped working. The psych was clueless about tapered withdrawal, and so was I at the time. So, as you would expect I had withdrawal symptoms after just three-week tapers from the first two drugs, probably somewhat reduced because I went back on the fluoxetine. About then I discovered SA, and after a few more months of fluoxetine suffering continuous DR and anxiety symptoms, I started tapering from 20 mg of Prozac. Now I'm down to a thimble-full of diluted Prozac (easier to spell that out than fluoxetine!) following guidelines from BrassMonkey and others on SA.

 

In my case I've had no symptoms that I would call depersonalization (DP), only DR in the form of continuous feelings of detachment/disconnect from the world "out there," discomfort (as some of you have mentioned) moving from one visual experience to another, hyper sensitivity to light and light changes, and a constant feeling of mental fatigue, like my brain is trying to break through the invisible glass wall or veil that separates me from the external world. These symptoms are accompanied by nearly continuous feelings of low-to-very uncomfortable distress, unease, dread, and fear--all expressions of anxiety. (I was diagnosed for years as suffering from clinical depression, but I have concluded that that diagnosis was always wrong.)

 

Aside from the tiny dose of Prozac I take Omega-3 and magnesium but nothing else. I have occasionally taken 0.5 mg of Ativan (lorazepam), and it helps the anxiety for several hours, and then doesn't. I haven't taken any recently.

 

Without going into the whole story, I have experienced DR off and on since I was 19 and in college. (I'm now of senior age.) This whole history may be related to complex trauma as a child and young adult owing to my relationship with a difficult parent who had psychological issues of her own. I have a new therapist who specializes in helping with dissociative disorders.

 

In the past three and a half years my symptoms have changed. Heavy surges of anxiety lasting sometimes several hours have greatly diminished. Spells of sobbing occur much less often. My bowl system works better. But the chronic DR and distress have changed little in many months. Fortunately I'm retired from employment though professionally active from home. I can function quite well there, but I resist going to stores or cultural events or any activities involving lots of people and visual stimulation. My great blessing is an unconditionally loving and supportive family.

 

I'm well aware of the literature demonstrating that tapering can get more difficult as doses decrease, including doses down to less than 1 mg, which is my case. I'm also aware that DP/DR are common symptoms of withdrawal, even though the psychiatric profession tends to write them off as extremely rare. The research on DP/DR is very limited.

 

Thanks for this thread to @mustafa, @Tranquilpeace, @Dragoon909, and @ElaineBenes5

 

Edited June 9, 2023 by Karma
Name update

[Gridley]

35 minutes ago, Rusdan said:

In my case I've had no symptoms that I would call depersonalization (DP), only DR in the form of continuous feelings of detachment/disconnect from the world "out there,

Same here, Rusdan--DR but no DP, for a number of years now. Though it's certainly no pleasure to feel cut off from everything, I think that the DR (along with the emotional anesthesia I also have) can act as a beneficial self-protective device, giving us a safe space over the long haul while we heal from withdrawal.  

 

It helps me to frame it that way.

 

 

 

 

[Rusdan]

Thanks for that reply @Gridley. I've read a lot about dissociative disorders as protective responses to trauma of one sort or another. But I've not thought about derealization helping to keep us safe while we heal. I will share this idea with my therapist tomorrow!

 

As I said in my long message, I've taken 0.5 mg of Ativan very occasionally, but my aim is not to take it at all because it's been suggested that even occasional use might retard my AD recovery. I saw your signature, and I was wondering  your reason for switching from Ativan to Valium. Is there evidence that Valium is easier to withdraw from than Ativan?

[Terry]

Ativan has a short half-life and typically has to be taken 2 or more times a day to prevent inter-dose withdrawal.  Valium has a longer half-life and only needs to be taken once/day.   I am currently tapering alprazolam (generic Xanax) which I have to take 3 times a day because of the short half-life.  It's definitely more work than a once a day dose, but it can be done.

 

Wishing you well on your tapering journey.

 

Terry

[Dragoon909]

On 1/18/2023 at 2:26 PM, Rusdan said:

I've been withdrawing from fluoxetine (Prozac) since early 2020, a long journey. At present I'm taking 0.58 mg of liquid fluoxetine and have been holding at that dose for going on four months. I don't like to report this, but I have experienced continuous derealization for many years. Its intensity grew in summer 2019 after I switched from Effexor and Wellbutrin (after three years of it) to Prozac. The DR was better under the first two drug, but it did not go away. So my psychiatrist at the time guided me in switching off the first two and on to fluoxetine, which I had taken before with success--until it stopped working. The psych was clueless about tapered withdrawal, and so was I at the time. So, as you would expect I had withdrawal symptoms after just three-week tapers from the first two drugs, probably somewhat reduced because I went back on the fluoxetine. About then I discovered SA, and after a few more months of fluoxetine suffering continuous DR and anxiety symptoms, I started tapering from 20 mg of Prozac. Now I'm down to a thimble-full of diluted Prozac (easier to spell that out than fluoxetine!) following guidelines from BrassMonkey and others on SA.

 

In my case I've had no symptoms that I would call depersonalization (DP), only DR in the form of continuous feelings of detachment/disconnect from the world "out there," discomfort (as some of you have mentioned) moving from one visual experience to another, hyper sensitivity to light and light changes, and a constant feeling of mental fatigue, like my brain is trying to break through the invisible glass wall or veil that separates me from the external world. These symptoms are accompanied by nearly continuous feelings of low-to-very uncomfortable distress, unease, dread, and fear--all expressions of anxiety. (I was diagnosed for years as suffering from clinical depression, but I have concluded that that diagnosis was always wrong.)

 

Aside from the tiny dose of Prozac I take Omega-3 and magnesium but nothing else. I have occasionally taken 0.5 mg of Ativan (lorazepam), and it helps the anxiety for several hours, and then doesn't. I haven't taken any recently.

 

Without going into the whole story, I have experienced DR off and on since I was 19 and in college. (I'm now of senior age.) This whole history may be related to complex trauma as a child and young adult owing to my relationship with a difficult parent who had psychological issues of her own. I have a new therapist who specializes in helping with dissociative disorders.

 

In the past three and a half years my symptoms have changed. Heavy surges of anxiety lasting sometimes several hours have greatly diminished. Spells of sobbing occur much less often. My bowl system works better. But the chronic DR and distress have changed little in many months. Fortunately I'm retired from employment though professionally active from home. I can function quite well there, but I resist going to stores or cultural events or any activities involving lots of people and visual stimulation. My great blessing is an unconditionally loving and supportive family.

 

I'm well aware of the literature demonstrating that tapering can get more difficult as doses decrease, including doses down to less than 1 mg, which is my case. I'm also aware that DP/DR are common symptoms of withdrawal, even though the psychiatric profession tends to write them off as extremely rare. The research on DP/DR is very limited.

 

Thanks for this thread to @mustafa, @Tranquilpeace, @Dragoon909, and @ElaineBenes5

 

Hey Rusdan,

 

The medication that got rid of my anxiety was klonopin. 

It reduced it to zero as soon I took it: sleep got better, confidence, no panic, no stress...

Complete heaven.

I loved klonopin. It gave me a life for several years. 

I didn't worry or care as much on it, but that was fine by me.

 

It eventually stopped working, and that's the downfall with it. 

 

I had to detox it.

 

Since, I've had to deal with life, stresses and emotions. With that, I do get derealization occasionally...not so much depersonalization. 

 

I can't say I don't crave klonopin sometimes,  because I do. It wouldn't work for me anyway if I took it.

 

Another downfall with klinopin, it has a tendency to subtract from memory. The entire 8 years I took it, 2 of those years are kind of blurry. Not too bad though.

 

Such a good medication,  yet a double-edged sword 😔 

 

I'm dealing with derealization right now and have been since November.  It truly does suck. It's because of stress and I didn't handle it like I should.

With my dr, I get tinnitus and some head pressure.

It's pretty common with stress.

 

Another note, my dr has got some better. When I can drink coffee again, I'll proclaim recovered lol.

 

Derealization is by far the hardest to cope with. It won't hurt you nor is it fatal or means you're psychotic...but it's not the best place to be, feeling no emotions.

 

I truly hope you find something that helps, or you get better. 

 

I truly hope you do! 

 

Your brain is protecting you from trauma, and perhaps it would be worse to cope with it, emotionally? 

 

Our brains are a weird, yet intelligent thing...and it does what it does.

 

❤️

[Gridley]

12 hours ago, Rusdan said:

I saw your signature, and I was wondering  your reason for switching from Ativan to Valium.

I made the switch solely because Ativan became unavailable in Ecuador and I had no choice. I'm not personally a big fan of drug switches, though there are certainly lots of arguments in their favor.  I would have much preferred to taper my original drug, Ativan. The Valium doesn't agree with me as well as the Ativan did (I got appetite loss and the depression that's often attributed to Valium).

 

12 hours ago, Rusdan said:

Is there evidence that Valium is easier to withdraw from than Ativan?

The thesis behind switching from Ativan and other shorter half-life benzos to Valium is that, according to the Ashton Manual, it isn't possible to achieve a smooth decline in blood and tissue concentrations.  With the drug being eliminated more rapidly, concentrations can fluctuate, necessitating more than one dose per day to avoid interdose withdrawal.  To me, the long half-life advantage of Valium has to be weighed against the disadvantages of switching from "the devil you know."  So the question of whether Valium is easier to withdraw from than Ativan is a nuanced one.

 

I do know that Valium, which is 10X stronger than Ativan, with commensurately higher doses, is a whole lot easier to taper by 10% than Ativan, especially if, like me, you're weighing doses.

 

 

[Rusdan]

Thanks @gridley. You told me things I didn't know about benzos!

[Rusdan]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:06 AM, Dragoon909 said:

I get tinnitus and some head pressure.

@Dragoon909, I know what you mean by head pressure. That's always been a feature of DR and anxiety for me. My head also feels heavy, and when I lie down and rest it, I get this momentary feeling of relief, with the emphasis on momentary.

 

Congratulations on your kicking klonopin. That must have been a tough journey. 

 

For me DR does not seem to involve emotional numbing, just this continually aggravating feeling of an invisible veil disconnecting me from the external world, accompanied by a feeling of distress. I'm working with my new therapist on this, a rare individual who has a lot of clients experiencing dissociative disorders, something the psychiatric profession keeps say are very rare. I don't think so.

[Rusdan]

On 1/19/2023 at 7:23 AM, Terry said:

I am currently tapering alprazolam (generic Xanax) which I have to take 3 times a day because of the short half-life. 

Thanks @Terry for your comment. I have a friend who was on Lexapro for a couple of years and wanted to get off it. I told him all about SA and the need to taper slowly. But he ignored me and went off CT. I talked to him a couple of months later, and he told me he had no effects with the Lexapro withdrawal. I was amazed until he also told me that he was still taking Xanax twice a day and had been for about 10 years. That might explain his getting off lightly with abruptly quitting the Lexapro. I wish he would try tapering off the Xanax as well, but he's a very senior individual, and I don't think he will.

[Dragoon909]

50 minutes ago, Rusdan said:

@Dragoon909, I know what you mean by head pressure. That's always been a feature of DR and anxiety for me. My head also feels heavy, and when I lie down and rest it, I get this momentary feeling of relief, with the emphasis on momentary.

 

Congratulations on your kicking klonopin. That must have been a tough journey. 

 

For me DR does not seem to involve emotional numbing, just this continually aggravating feeling of an invisible veil disconnecting me from the external world, accompanied by a feeling of distress. I'm working with my new therapist on this, a rare individual who has a lot of clients experiencing dissociative disorders, something the psychiatric profession keeps say are very rare. I don't think so.

 

Yup, 

The veil...

I totally get it. 

 

I wonder if it isn't just fog you're experiencing?

I do have some emotional numbing, but not that bad. Feels more like a veil if fog rather. 

[methuselah]

On 1/12/2023 at 12:30 PM, Dragoon909 said:

Something else to add to that list is:

Progresso Soup (no msg)

 

May sound strange, but I find ibuprofen to knock the edge off the dr and dp, especially at night.

I guess because ibuprofen lowers cortisol. 

200mg-400mg every few hours around the clock.

 

Of course I didn't find this by accident.  I have covid at the time, and I noticed after taking ibuprofen,  the dr got some better. 

Weirdness...

@Dragoon909funny that you mention ibuprofen.  I came to find out by accident that it helps with my DR/DP as well.  I did a quick google search and seems ibuprofen can actually cause it as well. What a world.

[bambam]

Would you describe derealization as feeling foggy or in a dream all day?

[AnnaRetlaw]

Can somebody please explain what  derealization and depressalisation feel like.

I see a lot of posts about them but I don’t exactly know what it feels like. I might be going through it. I feel like I’m in a bit of a tunnel a little bit echoey call Ma people are real but I feel disconnected from them. Anything else?

[Onmyway]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:06 AM, AnnaRetlaw said:

Can somebody please explain what  derealization and depressalisation feel like.

I see a lot of posts about them but I don’t exactly know what it feels like. I might be going through it. I feel like I’m in a bit of a tunnel a little bit echoey call Ma people are real but I feel disconnected from them. Anything else?

@AnnaRetlaw, please do not start new threads on a topic when there are already threads on that topic. Pls use the search function to find. You can also look up the definitons of depersonalization/derealizations on the web. Hope you find your answers, 

OMW

[bambam]

Do these symptoms make it hard for anyone else to sleep? I feel like I’m floating out my body when I close my eyes and it makes me panic 

[KenA]

@Atnyxoxo I never had depersonalization myself, it was always derealization which made me feel like everything around me wasn't real or fake. It could be scary at times for sure, but over time, I just got used to it and accepted it as a symptom of the healing process. Just have to give it time and let your brain heal. I haven't had DR in a very very long time as it went away with all the other symptoms. 

[HughesEddie]

On 8/18/2014 at 12:13 PM, Spring said:

Today I am on day 35 off mirtazapine. Two weeks ago I had one day with terrible depersonalisation along with anxiety. Today it is more derealization. I watch the tv but it is like I am a jar. I see and hear the tv but it does not come through really. Today is the fist day I really feel low. I am very cranky. Is it just two symptoms occuring today or do they relate to each other? I thought depersonalisation/derealization was more related to anxiety.

The depressive feelings scare me more than the derealization because I am really afraid of going into a deep depression.

Hi @Spring ,

 

I have just read your post about DP/DR in 2014. Im wondering how you’re getting on with this nowadays? As I am 10 months off of mirtazapine, and am experiencing this myself unfortunately. I hope you are now feeling better?

 

Thanks.

Edited May 9, 2023 by Onmyway
I am pretty new to the forum, and am hoping to contact Spring directly. So I edited in order to add an “@“.

[dealwithadil]

On 28/09/2012 at 15:48, annej said:

J'ai trouvé l'ebook de Shaun O-Conner (téléchargement pdf et MP3) The DP Manual très, très utile.

 

C'est un site de commerce (il facture le téléchargement) donc je posterai l'url sans lien direct : http://www.dpmanual.com/

 

Je pense que toute personne souffrant de DP pourrait être grandement aidée par les informations et les suggestions qu'il fournit.

Thank you for sharing this. Very useful. 

[Altostrata]

On 6/11/2023 at 8:55 PM, dealwithadil said:

Hi @Altostrata

 

It's been a couple of months now that I joined SA.

And I wanted to thank you for your appreciated work. 

 

I've been diagnosed with a schizofrenic spectrum disorder... but, while I'am reading this topic about DP and DR, I found it relates 100% what I've been through and what I felt. So I've made a little reaserch to understand the difference between DR/DP and psychosis, and here is what I found : "However, patients always retain the knowledge that their unreal experiences are not real but rather are just the way that they feel (ie, they have intact reality testing). This awareness differentiates depersonalization/derealization disorder from a psychotic disorder, in which such insight is always lacking." 

Source : https://www.msdmanuals.com/professional/psychiatric-disorders/dissociative-disorders/depersonalization-derealization-disorder

 

I think I was so panicking, exhausted and my understanding was so "esotericly oriented" (because of my religious backround believes) because I was awear enough that it was not normal and I was trying to find an explanation to all those weird sensations and DR/DP stuffs... I jumped to the worst conclusions..., may be the GP considered there was a lack of insight. 

 

The difference between DP/DR and delusions of a psychotic state is hard to make.

 

The thing is now am taking risperdal for 8 months (and already tapering), and I cant tell if I m not going wrong way now I m pretty sure I had this DR/DP syndrome after several very stressful periods in my life. And I guess the DR/DP I had days before and after I traveled caused me a PTSD regarding to the many nightmares I made each night during the 2 weeks before I took risperdal wich I guess stoped the "dream PTSD digestion process". 

 

I can't fix all this, and I would really appreciate to have your view.  

Thank you so 

 

[This2shallpass]

What is the difference between depersonalization and psychosis? I get very concerned that I’m going to go crazy or develop psychosis, it’s making me panic  

[Altostrata]

@This2shallpass please read this topic from the beginning.

 

Your fears are unusual. Do you have a history of health anxiety? See Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

[Charleyhorse]

Hi @This2shallpass,

 

On 8/27/2023 at 8:01 PM, This2shallpass said:

What is the difference between depersonalization and psychosis? I get very concerned that I’m going to go crazy or develop psychosis, it’s making me panic  

 

This is actually a very common thought/fear for people who experience depersonalization.

I understand your concern, because the feeling of depersonalization definitely isn't a pleasant one.

However, depersonalization will not cause you to go into psychosis.

 

Someone on this thread already listed the e-book The DP Manual, by Shaun O'Conner. He also has a website . There he explains the fear of going crazy as one of the key symptoms of depersonalization: (https://www.dpmanual.com/about/depersonalization-symptoms-the-10-most-common/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwgNanBhDUARIsAAeIcAt-Lx19w07-e2S7OSf9lPOkrKQ9usqfmoWRICvS__AwyG-Noe_3u-IaApniEALw_wcB),

 

You can look both there and here in the thread for further explanation and tips on how to cope with this symptom.

🙏

 

[Ashpashley23]

Long story short, I had an adverse reaction to Compazine through IV over 10 months ago. It immediately caused akathisia and DPDR, which have both remained constant ever since. I have been off all medications since the reaction. I don’t get windows from them yet, unfortunately.
 

It would be helpful to hear from those who have dealt with this symptom as long as I have and have had it go away still. It truly feels like my brain is stuck in this, since it’s been so constant.

 

If this symptom would go away, I would honestly be 85%+ healed. 

[Ashpashley23]

Been experiencing dpdr 24/7 for almost a year now, after an adverse reaction to compazine for a migraine. Seems like this will probably be the last symptom to go for me, unfortunately. All I can do is hold on as tightly as I can and trust that eventually it will go on its own.