MatrixCode: protracted withdrawal is real - please help me to find my way

[manymoretodays]

21 hours ago, MatrixCode said:

You are already helping, thank you for that. I think I'm still trying to be stable on olanzapine. then I will try to cut my dose again?

 

my lexapro is 10 mg and I'm still taking it. can you suggest me a taper plan for that too? I have to be honest with you, I'm very scared to taper it off.  you see my page here, it was all about suffering after quitting cymbalta nearly cold turkey. so bro I don't know what to expect if I quit lexapro.

 

Hi MC,

For now, if I were you, I would want to stabilize on the 1.25 mg dose of olanzapine, for awhile longer before beginning to taper your Lexapro.  If the olanzapine is not causing too many side effects or adverse effects, Lexapro will be the first drug to taper.  If one goes slowly with tapering, oftentimes it is not so scary.  It's not a quick process to taper off, so try not to worry so much.  And of course, we can help and support you when the time to taper again comes along.

 

Since you've just basically done a 50% taper on the olanzapine........I would think that several months might be good for leaving things where they are at, before tapering anything again.

And then, please update your signature, with a date and your current zyprexa/olanzapine dose:  AccountSetting/signature

 

So you are sleeping better now?

 

And here are some of our basics around WDsyndrome and tapering.  I'll include the Lexapro specific link as well.  You can get familiar and get prepared this way.

 

The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Tips for tapering off Lexapro

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Brain Remodelling

 

Dr.Glenmullen’s withdrawal symptom list.

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur. And sleep is really important during withdrawal. 

 

Keep us updated MC, as to how you are doing.  And just ask, right here, as further questions and concerns arise.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[MatrixCode]

manymoretodays

 

thank you so much bro. sorry for my delayed respond. I'm still taking lexapro 10 mg with 1.25 mg zyprexa. I sleep well, but lex makes me feel exhausted a LOT. this is my major concern right now. this is a game changer for me because it affects my daily mood, life and Energy in many ways. I want to ask, is it possible to my withdrawal from cymbalta days return even if I successfully taper off lexapro within months and try to be drug free? I mean CNS loves stability, so maybe I will be feeling stable and without crying spells and all, if I quit gradually?

 

beside from that I'm doing alright. thanks again. I updated my signature.

 

8 am I wake up

9 am have breakfast

10 am take magnesium, omega 3 etc.

7 pm take my lexapro 10 mg

10 pm take my zyprexa 1.25 mg

 

I'm now checking the links.  see you again

[manymoretodays]

On 2/9/2020 at 12:59 PM, MatrixCode said:

ank you so much bro. sorry for my delayed respond. I'm still taking lexapro 10 mg with 1.25 mg zyprexa. I sleep well, but lex makes me feel exhausted a LOT. this is my major concern right now. this is a game changer for me because it affects my daily mood, life and Energy in many ways. I want to ask, is it possible to my withdrawal from cymbalta days return even if I successfully taper off lexapro within months and try to be drug free? I mean CNS loves stability, so maybe I will be feeling stable and without crying spells and all, if I quit gradually?

 

I want to ask, is it possible to my withdrawal from cymbalta days return even if I successfully taper off lexapro within months and try to be drug free? I mean CNS loves stability, so maybe I will be feeling stable and without crying spells and all, if I quit gradually?

 

Hi MC, @MatrixCode

Yes, if you allow some stabilization time now, even with the medications, this may be better in the long run.   Although you didn't know better with the more rapid taper off Cymbalta, you do now.

"Tapering carefully to avoid withdrawal symptoms is a much safer approach. Medicine wants to believe withdrawal lasts only a few weeks, but evidence is emerging that's only the acute phase -- post-acute withdrawal syndrome can last many months."  (Altostrata quote, from first post in our reinstatement topic).

......and sometimes it lasts longer, but........often if careful, and cautious, many do manage to function pretty well through it all.

 

We're looking at getting to a withdrawal normal stability now, with you.  And sure, you may have less symptoms of crying spells, as some nervous system stabilization begins to set on in now.

 

And here's more, as to what WD stability looks and feels like:

 

And then in tapering off the Lexapro, it's going to be over a longer time period than just a few months.

See:

On 2/8/2020 at 12:57 PM, manymoretodays said:

The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Each 10% taper is based on the previous dosage, and so to taper down from 10 mg of Lexapro, may take much longer than just a few months.

You might be able to go a bit quicker, while on the higher doses of Lexapro...........but I think we should wait another couple of months now, before even beginning this taper.  It's interesting that you feel exhausted from the Lexapro now.   And, I know you have only been on it since last October.  I think we should proceed, with much more care now though.......our harm reduction way.

 

You did the 50% reduction in Zyprexa, just recently.......and so........if I were you, I think I might wait at least 2 months, before starting the Lexapro taper.

 

And okay, thank you.  For the below information.

  

On 2/9/2020 at 12:59 PM, MatrixCode said:

beside from that I'm doing alright. thanks again. I updated my signature.

 

8 am I wake up

9 am have breakfast

10 am take magnesium, omega 3 etc.

7 pm take my lexapro 10 mg

10 pm take my zyprexa 1.25 mg

 

Interesting that you feel like the Lexapro is exhausting you.  For most, it's more of an activating medication.  Yet, some vary in how the medications affect them.  Are you sleeping okay?  In general, Zyprexa can be pretty exhausting too......almost sedating, tranquilizing, or deadening in a way.  It's designed to have that effect.  So I wonder if the exhaustion is from the Zyprexa, rather than the Lexapro?

 

What do you think?  When you were on just Zyprexa, were you exhausted?

 

And so......in the meantime, just try your best to HOLD steady with your current doses and taking them at the same time every day.

I hope that answers your most recent questions.  And MC, I'm not really a "bro", more of a "sis", but that's okay........not sure that matters much around here.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

( you can either quote me, or when you respond, go ahead and do an @ and then just type in my name, and I will get a notification)

Also, I am usually checking on members I've worked with anyway, and should see your postings.  Sometimes I am out or off for several days too.

Good questions MC!  And so glad to hear that you are doing alright.  Keep us updated.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by manymoretodays
additional, edited out notes, as some were done

[MatrixCode]

@manymoretodays

 

hello again. I know long time no messages on my side, I just want to update my situation. yes I am sleeping well thanks to the melatonin. : )

 

I would like to tell you that I have seen another psychiatrist, telling him my extreme fatigue and low energy, he told me that lexapro can be causing the fatigue. so we lowered my dose to 5 mg !

 

yes I am doing much better on 5 mg. I was feeling like death and hell. nowadays I'm doing better on 5 mg lex - and - 1.25 mg olanzapine.

 

this makes me think that Im VERY SENSITIVE to those drugs since the beginning. because even low dose of them make impact on me..am I right what do you think?

 

I now started to believe that my lexapro brand can be a less heavier one but it is still escitalopram

 

it is called "citoles". I think it will be harder to decrease from 5 mg, as I know things get sensitive when you are nearer to the bottom. am I right?

 

but zyprexa is still 1.25mg  for me, it is a very heavy drug. what do you estimate about when my next drop can be for olanzapine? thank you so much again, friend.

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi MatrixCode,

I am glad you are feeling better.  And interesting, on the psychiatrists view on your fatigue being related to the Lexapro.

When did you lower the Lexapro/excitalopram?

Try to do an update/edit to your signature please MatrixCode. 

Just go to AccountSettings/signature and add in the date of your most recent change please.  Very helpful, to see your recent tapering history at a glance.

On 2/21/2020 at 1:23 PM, MatrixCode said:

yes I am doing much better on 5 mg. I was feeling like death and hell. nowadays I'm doing better on 5 mg lex - and - 1.25 mg olanzapine.

 

this makes me think that Im VERY SENSITIVE to those drugs since the beginning. because even low dose of them make impact on me..am I right what do you think?

 

I now started to believe that my lexapro brand can be a less heavier one but it is still escitalopram

 

it is called "citoles". I think it will be harder to decrease from 5 mg, as I know things get sensitive when you are nearer to the bottom. am I right?

 

but zyprexa is still 1.25mg  for me, it is a very heavy drug. what do you estimate about when my next drop can be for olanzapine? thank you so much again, friend.

 

How much melatonin are you taking?

 

MC, you've just done two 50% drops in each of your medications.  And so, if I were you, I think I would just HOLD now, for at least 6 months, before starting to taper again. 

And I would love an update, during this period of time that you are HOLDING.

 

You've had a lot of drugs and changes in your recent past, and yes, this does make for a very sensitive nervous system.

 

Then at that point, 6 months from now........let's get you going on a careful, harm reduction taper, off of the Lexapro first.

Unless you are having adverse effects from the olanzapine, or side effects. 

 

And yes, you are right about going slow and careful, even more careful, when you get to the lower doses.

No reason you can't review and begin to plan ahead.  Get real familiar with Why taper by 10%, of each previous dose.  And then look at the Lexapro specific tapering topic some more, and decide if you want to work with liquid, or weighing, when you begin tapering again.

I hope I have left you links above in your introduction to refer to.

 

This isn't going to be something that is over and done real quickly. 

Take a look through this link too:  The rule of 3KIS:Keep it simple, slow, and stable

 

And don't be a stranger here.  Try and just leave some simple updates, every week or so.  And yes, ask questions too.  Maybe even support some of the other members if you would like to.  Read in some of the forums too.  Just go to the main page and you'll see all the different forums.

 

All for now.  Best.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[MatrixCode]

@manymoretodays

 

hey again. I'm not doing so good. but I hope this is temporary. fatigue is never ending which is related to lexapro. my brain fog is beyond the limits.. tired and unable to think and a bit frustrated easily. I'm sure you know what I mean..

 

coffee makes me even more aggresive because of caffeine. I feel something is missing in my brain. like it's not stable. I'm okay with all these things, trying to be stable still

 

but I'm not okay with fatigue.  still taking omega 3, magnesium during the day, sleeping with 5 mg melatonin. As you mentioned, I will wait like 6 months to be stable.. thank you

[manymoretodays]

I hope so too, @MatrixCode.  You took two big leaps, with two drugs, in a short time frame.  Do your best with non-drug coping now too.

Non-drug techniques to cope

there is a whole indexed list of things to try in the first post there

You are having some WD symptoms now MatrixCode.  You are sounding like you are coping with them okay, right now.  Knowing that they are fairly common symptoms can help too.  The brain fog and all.  And by all means, limit coffee now.  It can aggravate symptoms.  I was able to just cut way down and find substitutes.  Herbal teas, non coffee coffee stuff.  Maybe you know what I mean?

 

You might be able to get by with less melatonin now too.  5 mg is a fairly large dose.

Melatonin for sleep

take a look ^ too, you may do just as well on 3 mg, or even less than that now......as fatigue has set in and all.  We often recommend just starting at 1.5 mg.

 

I hope it's temporary, your most difficult symptom now, the fatigue.  If not, I might try a small updose of the Lexapro, even by just 1 mg.

Tips for tapering off Lexapro(escitalopram)

you can see how to get a smaller dose for an updose here

many use a Gemini 20 scale, or homemade liquid, or even a pharmacy made liquid is available......at least in the U.S. and U.K.

More about reinstating/includes updosing:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

And just ask, if you do decide to go this route ^ and we can help you figure out what you need.

 

And as you are working with your doctor too, around your medications now, you might find these helpful:

 

How to talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal? What to expect?

Withdrawal dialogues and encouragement

^ has some doctors visit animated videos, down at the bottom of the first post too

 

Thank you for the update MC.  Just ask, right here, when things come up.  Do continue to @ me, or quote me too, so I know you have posted.  I'm a bit busy again this week on the ground(locally), but soon will be free-er again, and  able to do good checks at least every other day. 

Others may come by to help too, once you post and if they see questions.

 

Okay.  And best.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[manymoretodays]

@MatrixCodeHow are you doing MatrixCode?  Updates?

Edited May 6, 2020 by manymoretodays
added an @ notification for member