Erell: struggling with paroxetine

[Markolo1980]

Dear @Erell my deepest sorry for you loosing your grandma. Be strong and belive me, window is coming. I had one for almost a week!! Now im back in wave but still know that another Window is coming and im sure this one is going to be even longer...

 

 

[Vegalia]

Salut Erell,

 

Toutes mes pensées t'accompagnent.

 

Bisous.❤️

 

Vega

[brassmonkey]

Erell-- I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.  It's even harder when something like this happens when one is in a bad wave. 

 

I know that you are in a very bad way at the moment, but if it is at all possible to get out of the house and be with you mother, even for an hour. I think it will do both of you a lot of good.  Down the road the recriminations that you could feel for not having made the effort cold be staggering.  If you truly can't get there, that's understandable, but I hope you can try.

 

((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))

 

Brass

[Cocopuffz17]

4 hours ago, Rhiannon said:

 

I was unable to weep for so many years due to the ADs and withdrawal and feeling too unsafe to let myself go. Now whenever I find myself crying in therapy or at home I say "I'm crying, yay!" and I really feel that way.

This is exactly what I went through. Being able to cry is a sign of healing! It is great! 

[Giulietta]

3 hours ago, Erell said:

i'm sorry I didn't  answer your later, i'll try To do this evening

 

Whenever I get a message from you I am very happy! I try not to keep you waiting though since you are 6 hours ahead of me.

 

3 hours ago, Erell said:

My grandma left us this morning. And I really struggle To accept my limitations, not being able To be away from my flat. 

 

Sweet Erell,  I am sorry you lost your grandma. She is now a star in the sky - a guardian angel - watching over you. Please don't treat yourself poorly if you can't get out of your flat.  That being said, as @brassmonkey said - if you can get out of the flat even for a small window - that may be good for your family and for you. You mentioned you donot have anxiet about driving. Maybe I can help walk you through some anxiety you have about leaving your flat?

 

I hve to run. Thinking of you. Sending love.

 

Giulietta

[sunnysideup69]

14 hours ago, Rhiannon said:

 

I was unable to weep for so many years due to the ADs and withdrawal and feeling too unsafe to let myself go. Now whenever I find myself crying in therapy or at home I say "I'm crying, yay!" and I really feel that way.

 

Totally @Rhiannon, I'm so relieved when I have a cry. I often feel tearful, but they won't come....Last weekend, I was really stressed about work, and a friend sent me a youtube link to some 'tapping' (emotional freedom technique, don't know if you're familiar....) I did the routine and within about 15 minutes after, I was sobbing. It felt really god and releasing.

 

Good morning @Erell, dropping by to say hello and am sending you big waves of love and support across the channel. To lose your grandmother at any time is really tough, let alone in the midst of withdrawal. You're doing amazingly. Sending my love to you and your family xxxxx

PS I love that you do the 'visualising stability.' I'm gonna copy.

[Sassenach]

Hi Erell

 

How are ou feeling this morning.

 

Sass🤗

[Erell]

Hi everybody,

 

I don't find the words To thank you enough for all your kind and supportive words. Just know that I strongly appreciate ❤

 

I know how it can sound silly and hard To understand, but I really struggle with the idea of being 1hour away from my flat.

My mum is a strong woman and she kindly told me To not worry if I Feel like I can't come today, or To the funerals next Tuesday.

Yet I Feel like a failure and cry this morning.

 

Diary Saturday 9 Novembre/ day 46 on 10mg Paroxetine 

 

6.30am : woke up anxious. Cortisol Spike still lower.

7.30am : 10mg Paroxetine + 1 fish oil capsule 

9am : anxiety: 5 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 4.

12 : anxiety: 5 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 5. Same all Afternoon.

Lot of body aches, but bearable.

On the Afternoon, I went outside.

7pm : anxiety: 5 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 4.

8pm : bedtime.

10pm : anxiety: 4 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 3.

Lights off at 10.30pm. Felt suddenly very agitated mentally and very anxious.

Managed To fall asleep around 11.30 pm or midnight. 

Woke up anxious this morning at 6.30am. Cortisol Spike was higher than previous days. 

 

 

--》 Yesterday, despite the sadness, was a decent day. 

No big Spike, except before falling asleep.

[Sassenach]

Hopefully this morning cortisol spike increase is due to the additional stress and will settle again.

35 minutes ago, Erell said:

Yet I Feel like a failure and cry this morning.

You are not a failure and at least you can cry and grieve.

Your gran is looking down and the best gift for her is to see you getting better.

Stay strong.

 

Sass🤗

[Erell]

5 hours ago, Sassenach said:

Hopefully this morning cortisol spike increase is due to the additional stress and will settle again.

You are not a failure and at least you can cry and grieve.

Your gran is looking down and the best gift for her is to see you getting better.

Stay strong.

 

Sass🤗

Days and weeks are hard, and I often Feel like a failure or hopeless. 

But : I don't wanna let pharma industry win this battle. No way. 

So i'll continue To meditate, To try everyday to go outside and to fight to not let despair drawn myself. 

 

It is a hard battle, you know that. I Will never thank you enough for your support ! 

[Rhiannon]

21 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Erell-- I'm so sorry to hear of your loss.  It's even harder when something like this happens when one is in a bad wave. 

 

I know that you are in a very bad way at the moment, but if it is at all possible to get out of the house and be with you mother, even for an hour. I think it will do both of you a lot of good.  Down the road the recriminations that you could feel for not having made the effort cold be staggering.  If you truly can't get there, that's understandable, but I hope you can try.

 

((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))

 

Brass

 

I agree with this. As an old person who missed so many things due to drugs and withdrawal I am an expert on regret. This is one of those lifetime opportunities that will never come again.

 

Stuart Shipko says of people in withdrawal that we can often actually do more than we think we can, and I have found this to be true. 

 

I think our brains are telling us to be self protective because they know they are injured. That is, overall, the right message. But it's okay to fight back against that message from time to time. I have found that it doesn't make me worse. It's hard to do and I sometimes need recovery time afterwards but sometimes it is worth it.

 

If ever there was going to be a time to push yourself and do more than you really believe you can do, this is that time. I don't think you will be sorry that you did.

 

I am so sorry for your loss, and for your grief in not being able to be there for your mother and family. And of course if you can't get out, I understand, I think everyone here truly understands. Hugs to you cher Erell.

[Sassenach]

Hey You

 

How have you coped today?

 

Sass

[Erell]

Hi !

Today was not easy, symptoms oscillated between 5 and 6. It Feels more chemical induced than due To life events.

I spent a lot of time in my bed,  meditate a bit, and spent 1hour on the seaside To walk.

Usual day in usual WD 🙃

And now i'm cleaning my flat To change the Channel. 

 

Rhiannon : I often read on SA that we can do more that we think, thank you for reminding me. This agoraphobia is really annoying me. I go To the seaside because it is near  To my flat. Since around 2 weeks I add some kilometers every day To prouve To my brain that I can increase the distance, and that I can do more than I think. I force myself To go regularly in shops and To be around people, To remodel my brain.

But be 70kilometers away from my flat terrifies me.

I know I may regret later, but I really Feel like i'm already pushing myself as much as I can for now 😓

 

Thank you for your support. 

[Sassenach]

We all have our own way of dealing with these situations.

You are already pushing yourself, my opinion do not overdo it.

Your parents are beginning to understand which is good.

Your anxiety needs to settle again.

38 minutes ago, Erell said:

Feels more chemical induced than due To life events

Probably a bit of both but the trend is still good.

 

Sass

[Erell]

😚

[Giulietta]

Coucou Erell,

 

Thinking of you and sending hugs to you.

 

I felt a wave of relief (no pun intended!) for you when your Mum said she understood that you were not able to move far from your flat - and thus be able to travel to the funeral. This must be a huge weight / pressure lifted from your shoulders. Now if you decide you want to try to go - you can. But there is no pressure on you.

 

I understand @Rhiannon and @brassmonkey about wishing they didn't have to live with regrets. Like Rhiannon I am a bit older than you - and wish I had done things differently. It is now too late for me to have a family (for instance).

 

If you are able - depending on how you are feeling the day of the funeral - you could try to attend. It would help set yourself up for being able to feel safe outside your flat.  Going with others would I think help you feel safe outside your flat. That being said - it seems like your mother does undesrstand that you are not able to leave your flat now and does not want you to be ill, anxious, etc.

 

Talk more later. Wanted to see how you are doing today. Make sure that your needs are being met.

 

Maybe do a pro and con list of why to go or not go to the funeral?

 

Hugs,

Giuliietta

 

[Erell]

Good morning.

 

Diary Sunday  10 Novembre/ day 47 on 10mg Paroxetine 

 

6.30am : woke up anxious. Cortisol Spike High.

7.30am: 10mg Paroxetine + 1 fish oil capsule 

8.30am: anxiety: 6 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 5

Tinnitus. Internal tremors. 

10.30am: anxiety: 5 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 5.

Body aches. Feel disconnected. It Will be the same all morning.

3pm : went To the seaside for 1 hour.

5pm : anxiety: 6 / restlessness: 6 / despair: 6

8pm : bedtime. Tinnitus. Anxiety: 6 / restlessness: 5 / despair: 5

10.30pm: anxiety: 5 / despair: 4 / restlessness: 5.

 

Lights off at 11pm. 

Then : hell ! I started To Feel highly anxious and felt a urge To ****** my brain out of my head. It was the most scary feeling I ever Felt! I really thought I was going crazy for good.

And then terror came back. Awfull terror. I tried To calm down, put the lights on. I finnally fall asleep around 1am.

I woke up anxious this morning at 6.30am. 

 

 

I really don't understand  : I didn't do, eat or drink anything different from usual. Usually, the time before falling asleep is a quiet time for me.

I'm so scared : what if I poop out ? What does this mean ?

I know that nobody can answer, and it terrifies me. 

And this morning it Feels like High anxiety came back.

 

😢

[sunnysideup69]

13 minutes ago, Erell said:

I'm so scared : what if I poop out ? What does this mean ?

I know that nobody can answer, and it terrifies me. 

And this morning it Feels like High anxiety came back.

 

😢

 

I'm going to leave the pro answer to the moderators, but an amateur view is that no, you haven't pooped out. You've had BIG emotional stress and some guilt and your nervous system is reacting. I'd be more surprised if it wasn't, to be honest.

Your nervous system, on top of already working hard to level, has taken an emotional hit, and things are not following the normal pattern. Try not to overthink it, it's a temporary abnormality in the pattern.

I've had loads of those abnormalities over this last week since work stress.

Sending a London hug xxxx

[Erell]

Thank Sunny for your morning support!

I try To not drown in the loop, its really hard with this hard change. ❤

[sunnysideup69]

1 minute ago, Erell said:

Thank Sunny for your morning support!

I try To not drown in the loop, its really hard with this hard change. ❤

You're welcome my lovely, it is hard. Hope you have a good day. It's really disconcerting when new symptoms appear, but they will go again. Everything fluctuates and changes xxxxx

[rola]

 

hi erell

you did not fail it's just your body and your brain that react to the events that happen to you try to evacuate your mind even if it's hard and try to ask someone to bring you back for your grandma's burial, even if it will be difficult that would do you good I think I sent you an MP I do not know if you saw it I'm kissing my beautiful and I'm with you

 

salut erell
tu n as pas échoué 
c 'est juste ton corps et ton cerveau qui réagissent aux événements qui t arrive 
essaye d'évacuer ton esprit meme si c est dure 
et essaye de demander à quelqu'un qui te raméne pour l 'enterrement de ta grand mére meme si cela va étre difficile 
cela te ferais du bien je pense 
je t ai envoyé un Mp je sais pas si tu l as vu 
je t embrasse ma belle et je suis de tout coeur avec toi 

[Markolo1980]

Don’t be scared @Erell, I experienced same feelings. The do diminish...

[Erell]

Markolo, thank you.

I'm so scared  : its  now been almost a month  wave, and I Feel like i'm back To early days with terror.

This is so hard, I thought I had lived the worse.

[Erell]

@Sassenach and @Rhiannon :

 

if you stop by here, I would really appreciate your external point of view. 

 

Since almost one month i'm in a wave with 5/6 rate of symptoms. Days after days, it felt like if this wave was very slowly lowering in intensity.  You both told me that I had a lot of good signs, and I agree. 

 

Since Yesterday, I Feel like i'm back To worse days, anxiety has increased and terror came back. Can't even imagine going out of my bed today. 

 

Is it possible that I poop out ?

Was I in a Window without noticing it and now back in a wave ?

Is it just my wave going harder ? What could this mean ?

 

I don't know if you can help me To answer these questions, I'm so scared of going crazy. 

It really doesnt Feel like it is due To life events, it Feels chemical.

I'm scared of my own brain, last night feeling of needing To extract my brain from my head was terrifying. 

Scared of trying To sleep tonight and Feel terror Again. Or becoming crazy for good.

 

I'm sorry To bother you, I'm frightened like a hell with no end. I Feel hopefull.

[mustafa]

48 minutes ago, Erell said:

@Sassenach and @Rhiannon :

 

if you stop by here, I would really appreciate your external point of view. 

 

Since almost one month i'm in a wave with 5/6 rate of symptoms. Days after days, it felt like if this wave was very slowly lowering in intensity.  You both told me that I had a lot of good signs, and I agree. 

 

Since Yesterday, I Feel like i'm back To worse days, anxiety has increased and terror came back. Can't even imagine going out of my bed today. 

 

Is it possible that I poop out ?

Was I in a Window without noticing it and now back in a wave ?

Is it just my wave going harder ? What could this mean ?

 

I don't know if you can help me To answer these questions, I'm so scared of going crazy. 

It really doesnt Feel like it is due To life events, it Feels chemical.

I'm scared of my own brain, last night feeling of needing To extract my brain from my head was terrifying. 

Scared of trying To sleep tonight and Feel terror Again. Or becoming crazy for good.

 

I'm sorry To bother you, I'm frightened like a hell with end. I Feel hopefull.

My dear erell, 

Your brain can't repeat a wave cycle of the same gains, the same suffer may happen but with new gains the second time. I know all of us don't want to understand as much as we want these unwanted symptomts to end. For sorry, we must bear and resist.( Even if they are not bearable).

Yesterday I was very very upset from excessive cycles of healing;  When I read your sentence that you won't let big pharma win, I had my strength from you, you made me very strong last night. I told my self : well, I have to continue even if I will be just able to be with erell and my friends.

I know your times are very hard and not easy at all erell but please trust the fact of healing, it is a real fact.

I hope @Sassenach and @Altostrata give you some information about this. 

Take care of your self♥️. All of this will be just a memory very soon.

 

[Sassenach]

Hi Erell

 

You are not going crazy.

It is not chemical.

Think of it like this. If you were not going through W/D, how would you be feeling today?

My guess is feeling awful, teary, unhappy, experiencing grief.

We have to go through grief to heal and it is no different in W/D.

You also a very sensitive person who feels deeply.

Add all that up and feed it to a sensitised brain and the result is chaos, but like everything in W/D it will pass.

6 hours ago, Erell said:

Is it possible that I poop out ?

Was I in a Window without noticing it and now back in a wave ?

Is it just my wave going harder ? What could this mean ?

No, no and yes.

It means what I have explained above.

6 hours ago, Erell said:

I'm sorry To bother you, I'm frightened like a hell with no end. I Feel hopefull.

You are not bothering me or anyone else. You are going through a bad time which will pass.

Remember I told you baseline improvement is more important than a window.

Your base improvement is good and will be back on course soon.

In the meantime be kind to yourself.

 

Sass

[Erell]

Hi @Sassenach 

 

Thank you for your reply!

If I was not in WD, I would be sad but glad To be with my family, and not in terror.

I spent the day in my bed in constant fear, like when I arrived here last Septembre. 

No sadness but High anxiety. Really Feels like something is going wrong, like if my progress went away. 

 

You told me that baseline improvment is important, and this baseline is awfull today.

I do really hope you're right about grief, it would mean there is nothing going wrong.

Oh sass,  I'm so scared!

 

Thank you for your support, I pray for better days.

[Giulietta]

Coucou Erell,

 

You are not going crazy even though you may feel like you are. This is temporary. I have felt this way - and even my psych told me this before I started tapering. That being said - I will like your other friends here leave it to the experts to comment.

 

I am glad you went to the seaside and got some fresh air.

 

The emotional shock of your grandma's death and the stress over whether to go to her funeral or not- may be triggers for this uptick in anxiety.   The tinnitis, high anxiety and tremors really are miserable - but they will go away. Symptoms change over time - and emotional and physical seem to occur at the same time (my experience and that of others). 

 

During March I experienced the loss of my best friend. It triggered uptick in symptoms just like yours and they subsided.

 

We are going to win this battle against big pharma and medical professionals who put us on these meds and mismanaged tapers. With  determination and our support we will get off these drugs. 

 

In the meantime, I send you positive thoughts, prayers and lots of hugs. I think it is about dinner time in Brittany now. 

 

Enjoy a quiet evening.

 

Your friend,

Giulietta 💗

 

 

[Erell]

Dear Guilietta 

 

I didn't go To the seaside today : anxiety was too High, managed a short walk To the neighborhood. 

 

I think that what makes me Feel so bad is the fact that i'm back in the same state than in Septembre (terror, stuck in my bed). Ironically it shows me how days were good with only 5 rate...

 

Thank you for talking about détermination and your support, your kind words help me ❤

Thank you also To @mustafa : everytime I Feel relief when I read your quiet words. 

 

I'm sorry i'm not very supportive on your threads these days : you may  think that i'm being selfish. I just can't write on others threads, too  much anxiety.

But I think of you all ❤

[sunnysideup69]

A good evening to you, and hang in there, from London xxx I had uptick in anxiety too this last week, but we must remember, it will pass again xxx lots of love xxx

 

[Sassenach]

34 minutes ago, Erell said:

this baseline is awfull today.

The point of baselines is to to take an average over the longer term not for one or two days.

37 minutes ago, Erell said:

I do really hope you're right about grief, it would mean there is nothing going wrong.

There is nothing going wrong, there would be something really wrong if you had no reaction.

Start and calm yourself down, relax, lullaby time.

Sleep well.

 

Sass

[Erell]

@sunnysideup69 : thank you ❤

 

@Sassenach : thank you for telling me there is nothing going wrong ❤

I kept thinking I was poopingout today.

Thank you for your support, you're a gem!

[Sassenach]

Gems are buried🏃‍♂️

[brassmonkey]

Hi Erell-- I'm sorry to hear that you're are feeling so badly right now, but combining the shock of the last several days and the WD, it's quite normal to experience some pretty horrible feeling symptoms.  They will pass and you will be feeling better.  It may feel like a major setback but it's not.

 

Our baseline doesn't change from day to day or even week to week. It is a long term rolling average of our feelings over an extended time.  When we are in the thick of it, it can take many months to see a change in a persons baseline.  Which we call WDnormal.  Because they can feel so bad at the time, the changes in our symptoms from day today are not a good indicator of how well we are healing, but rather a distraction keeping us from seeing the big picture.

 

Poopout is a very slow process, it doesn't happen over night.  Like everything else related to ADs it takes many months to show up and can be very hard to detect.

 

Have you read this thread yet?  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/13492-dealing-with-emotional-spirals/  many of the things you are currently experiencing can be tied to spiral thinking and as such can be controlled with a little practice.

 

[Erell]

Thank you so much @brassmonkey for taking the time To support, and for reminding me the big picture.

 

I've already read the topic  about emotionnal spiral. I try To practice mindfullness everyday, and To watch my thoughts. I have To admit that with chemical terror and restlessness it is a very hard practice !

The feeling of going crazy particularly. 

I have To try harder !

 

You're a model for living off paxil,  thank you for sharing your wisdom.

 

 

[Rhiannon]

I would call this a wave. This is normal. I am certain that it's normal withdrawal, although this wave may have been set off by life events combined with withdrawal.

 

The metaphor of "windows and waves" is not a solid, predictable scientific phenomenon that you can put on a calendar.  It's just a metaphor for how the healing process goes. It's a way to help people understand and navigate withdrawal. I usually just say it's "up and down."

 

People find it helpful to understand that various symptoms will come and go. But it's important not to read too much significance into those ups and downs. They are normal. They are how the process seems to work.

 

It may be that for you, your healing is going to be more gradual, less bumpy, with long periods of 5/6 gradually going to 4/5 then 3/4 over time, and only occasional deeper waves and higher windows. 

 

And you have had some stress in your life lately. You must be experiencing some grief right now around your family losses. That is probably part of the story.

 

Anyway, don't be alarmed. As I said when we first met, the first few months are usually pretty rough. You are definitely still in that period. It will get better. Take care of yourself and try not to upset yourself with lots of doomsday thinking, if possible. (Doomsday thinking is also a symptom of withdrawal however, and perfectly normal at this point.)

Edited November 11, 2019 by Rhiannon