rola: weaning deroxat

[rola]

hello to all 
Monday, December 9, 2 months at 1.58mg or 0.79ml paxil 
8H 30 1.58mg paxil 
11am and 7pm Brain zap that does not last long but several and dizziness during the day.
I didn't go out because I had nothing to do outside and the weather is not right.
bedtime 10:30 pm 
up at 5:00 a. m.
Have a good day overall.
I have to go out today, we'll see how I'll be outside.
have a good day or good evening 

[rola]

 

Tuesday, December 10, 2019  
2 months and 1 day at 1.58 mg or 0.79 ml paxil 
8:30 am 1.58 mg paxil 
Very tired, maybe I got up too early. 
9:00 a. m. I'm going out to see a colleague. 
no anxiety, no agoraphobia
brain and dizziness but I can stay with her until 11:00. 
11:30 am Meals and preparation  
12:30 pm nap too tired a headache wakes me up   
3:00 p. m. I'm going to watch a movie. 
18h30 brain zap lasts 15 minutes  
19h meal  
brain zap and chills lasts 15 minutes  
10:30 p. m. I'm going to bed. 
fall asleep around 11:00 p. m. in front of the television. 
wakes me up at 5:00 in the morning put 
except for the brain zaps that don't bother me because I know them, it's the dizziness and instability that bother me. 
to this are added shivers that I didn't know about but not disturbing. 
I'm rehearsing my outings, I'm not giving up. 
good day and good night to all 

 

[rola]

hello 
day of December 11, 2019 2 months and 2 days at 1.58mg or 0.79mg Paxil
up at 5:00 a. m. 
8H30 1.58mg paxil
8:45 I go out to see my colleague,
10H some shopping at the food store 
11:00 a. m. Goes home. 
11:30 I eat 
14h nap
3pm I get up with a light headache 
I watch TV and keep busy as I can. 
6:30 p. m. I start having a light headache. 
19h meal 
19H horrible headache I take an analgesic when I never take it 

I go to bed for 8:00 p. m. The headache lasted 2 hours, it was really horrible. 
the first time.
so I don't know what happened.
all day long ,instability ,dizziness ,and blurred vision and even worse when the headache starts. 
I don't know if this is due to the fact that for the last 3 days I have been taking 0.79ml paxil directly and diluting it with a little water? 
and I no longer make 1.5ml in 25 ml of water.
 so today I'm starting to titrate again.
I'm really sick of it and I wonder if I'm not going to stop the paxil once and for all,
because suffering is present every day.
and it's been two months since I recovered... there's some good news but you're still suffering... and new symptoms are appearing...???????
I don't know what's going on. Maybe my brain is out of breath? @Altostrata

think my Christmas vacation is going to be at home and I wouldn't have the strength to leave. 

but I'm not going to let myself get out of hand 
I'm going out this morning to see how it goes. 
Thank you and have a good day and good evening. 

[Erell]

Ma chère Rola,

 

Je suis désolée d'apprendre que tu as eu une journée plus difficile hier.

Tu es dans un schéma de vagues et de fenêtres: ce qui veut dire qu'il y a des hauts et des bas sur le chemin de la stabilisation. 

Tu sembles avoir beaucoup d'améliorations donc ne t'inquiètes pas, ces symptômes ne sont pas un retour en arrière. 

Je peux prendre le temps de traduire le topic sur les vagues et les fenêtres si tu le souhaites.

Je sais que deux mois paraissent être une éternité, mais au vu des témoignages ici ce n'est pas très long en terme de stabilisation. 

Tu as eu énormément de signes d'améliorations, je ne vois que du positif. Quant aux nouveaux symptômes, cela semble normal aussi : j'en ai plein qui apparaissent et disparaissent.

 

Quant à la titration: je pense qu'il vaut mieux continuer à le faire comme d'habitude.

 

 

Je t'embrasse très fort ❤

 

 

(My dear Rola, 

I'm sorry To read that you had a bad day.

You are in a waves and Windows pattern, which means there are ups and downs on the path To stabilisation. 

It sounds like you've seen a lot of progress so don't worry, those symptoms aren't a setback.

I can take the time To translate the topic about waves and Windows if you want me To.

I know that 2 months Feel like eternity, but when you read the testimonies here it is still early days in terms of stabilisation. 

You had a lot of improvements. About new symptoms  : they sound normal too. I have symptoms that appear and disappear.

 

About titration: I think it is better To do as usual.)

[rola]

@Erell

greeting erell 
thank you for your support.

I'm hanging in there, but it gets boring. have a good day. 
salut erell 
merci pour ton soutien .
passe une bonne journée 😘

[rola]

hello to all 
day of December 12, 2 months and 3 days at 1.58mg paxil 
up at 6:00 a. m. 
8H30 1.58mg paxil 
impossible to get up dizzy and unstable 
stay in bed all morning 
11:00 am to get up to cook 
12h meal 
back to bed still unstable 
4:00 p. m. Up and watching a movie 
always unstable when I'm standing up 
19h meal 
8:00 in bed and I fall asleep at 11:00 p. m. 
no anxiety and no desire to go out the weather is really bad yet I love the snow too much.
up this morning at 7:00 a. m. 

Have a good day, everyone.

[Vegalia]

Hello @rola

 

I think on you.

Yesterday was difficult, all is not always linear, but you seems to make progress in the base line: good point

Hope for today. 

 

Kisses

 

Vega

[rola]

hello 
day of December 13, 2019 and 4 days at 1.58mg paxil.
I got up at 6:00 a. m. 
8H30 1.58mg Paxil 
9:00 am going out to see a colleague instability 10 ,vision disorder 8 
10h food shopping I am speedy gonzalez to do shopping😊 instability 10 ,vision disorder 8 ,headache 4
11h preparation meal symptoms always the same ,same intensity 
11:30 am meal 
12:30 p. m. Gas leak at my house, fire department call.
1:00 to 2:00 p. m. Anxiety 10 because many people at home. 
joke except the fireman asks me if I have a headache, dizziness, unstable legs.
I wanted to tell him "if you knew I have these symptoms every day"😁
as a precaution, they took my C02 level it was good.
15H 18h remains lying down  in my  bed , instability 9 

7pm I am called to eat outside (Christmas meal at work)
I knew it a long time ago but I don't want to go there... but my colleagues insist. 
my daughter is here and comes with me because she wants to go.
19:30 21:30 Anxiety meal 0, instability 10 ,headache 4 
22h in bed 
11pm I fall asleep 
up this morning at 6:00 a. m. but I went back to sleep until 8:00 a. m. 

I took fish oil capsules for three days but I don't take them today 

Have a nice day, everyone. 

[rola]

December 14th day 2 months and 5 days under 1,58MG paxil 
awake at 8:00 a. m. 
8H30 1.58mg paxil 
instability and blurred vision all morning 
9:45 a.m. to 10:30 a.m. aesthetician anxiety 10 ,instability 10, vision disorder 10 
after 20 minutes of anxiety 3 
13h return home 
will spend my day in front of TV. 
instability 10 and blurred vision 10 all day 
19h meal 
8:00 p. m. Anxiety bedtime 8 that lasts 10 minutes and tries to distract me 
9:00 p. m. watches TV, sleeps me at 2:00 a. m. 
wake-up this morning 8:00 am instability 10 and blurred vision 10 
a sh*tty day and another one that starts 
Have a good day, everyone. 

 

[rola]

hello 
December 15, 19 day 2 months and 6 days at 1.58mg paxil.
I woke up at 8:00 a. m. 
8H30 1.58mg paxil 
instability 10 visual disturbance 10 all morning 
12h meal 
I'd lie there all afternoon.
Around 6pm I get motivated, I iron clothes for an hour but sitting

9h meal 
8:00 p. m. I go back to bed in front of Tv. 
instability 10 and blurred vision 10 all day 
lying down at 11:30 p. m. 
Wake up at 7:00 this morning. 
very difficult for me this day ,my daughter is at home and it is very difficult to pretend to be well (she doesn't know)
let's hope for a good day 
good Monday to all 

 

[rola]

hello..,
16 December 19 day 2 months and 7 days at 1.58mg paxil
I woke up at 8 AM 
8:30 am 1.58mg Paxil
instability 10 and blurred vision 10 all day 
I managed to get out because I had to take my daughter back to the doctor. 
12h meal 
12h30 return to the doctor because there are too many people this morning.
1:30 pm return home 
14H pharmacy 
2:30 pm return home 
then on the couch until 6:00 p. m. 
meal preparation 
19h meal 
20h in front of TV 
11:30 p. m. I fall asleep 
what bothers me is the fact of being unstable when I'm standing up and blurry of vision. 
which causes anxiety but at 3 
on the way to a new day 
Have a good day and good evening to all 

 

[mustafa]

Hi @rola, I totally understand and feel what you mean, blurred vision and balance problems are very bothering.

One of the most amazing facts I was very surprised when I knew it is that people don't read or see what's going inside us, they only see us as normal people and even we made some faults or weren't talking fluently, they don't pay attention to this, this make me a little not panic that everything will go and pass, do you understand this?

Any situation will pass like the one before did, and don't forget it is temporary❤️.

[Cocopuffz17]

It will get better ! I remember having to wear sunglasses at night because my eyes were so sensitive and vertigo so strong I couldn’t stand up! These have all cleared up! 
 

Everyday that passes is one day closer to being fully healed! 

[rola]

@Cocopuffz17 @mustafa

greeting 
Thank you for your support. It means a lot to me.
I know it's temporary, but it's long.
Take good care of yourself. I kiss you.😘

[rola]

Hello,
day of December 17, 2 months and 8 days at 1.58mg paxil.
I woke up at 8:00 a. m. 
8:30 am 1.58mg paxil 
9am I wanted to get out, I took the car, I drove for 5 minutes but turn around. 
too unstable 10 and blurry 10 
I'd spend the day on the couch.
just gets up to prepare food. 
but doesn't stay up long.
I fall asleep around 11:30 pm and get up at 5:30. 
Let's hope for a good day 
Have a good day and good evening to all 

 

[rola]

@Altostrata

hello altostrata 
if I decide to go to the proxac 
which table should I do 
take 0.5mg of prozac so 0.125ml that I round to 1.3ml 
so 1.58mg of paxil + 1.3 ml of prozac for one week 
then the second week I decrease by 0.5mg paxil + 1.3ml prozac 
and so on? the third week 
thank you for your answer. 
I don't know if I should wait any longer because I've been trying to stabilize myself for two months now. There's some good news, but when one symptom fades away, others reappear. 
I really don't know what to do. 
good day the answer is not urgent 

 

[Altostrata]

On 11/22/2019 at 12:24 PM, Altostrata said:

 

This means an increase is going in the correct direction. As it's been more than a month, you might want to add more SSRI.

 

Paroxetine is very difficult to go off. You might consider a gradual switch to fluoxetine (Prozac). Have you ever had a bad reaction to fluoxetine?

 

Fluoxetine comes in a prescription liquid. You might add 0.25mg fluoxetine to your 1.58mg paroxetine, wait a week, let us know how you're doing.

 

If all goes well, you could then decrease paroxetine by 0.25mg. Gradually add fluoxetine and reduce paroxetine; over the next few weeks, you'll be off paroxetine. Then you can stabilize on fluoxetine and taper that.

 

On 12/4/2019 at 6:18 PM, Altostrata said:

We need to see the effect of 0.5mg fluoxetine added to 1.58mg paroxetine before making any plans. If it works well, you might reduce paroxetine by 0.5mg within the week.

 

rola, you can pick an amount of fluoxetine to add. I don't know how much it is in milliliters of liquid because I don't know what liquid you're using.

 

You need to keep all your dosing very regular, prepare it in the same way each day. Please let us know how you're doing.

[rola]

@Altostrata

hello altostrata 
I use 20mg for 10ml paxil 
and if I have to take fluoxetine then 20mg for 5ML 
so I don't know how to do it. I don't have a plan.
I don't know how to reduce the paxil and how long it takes.
thank you for your answer 

[Altostrata]

Are you using a prescription liquid or making your own? @brassmonkey will help you calculate the measurements.

[rola]

@Altostrata

thank you 
so for fluoxetine I have it in 20mg solution for 5ml.
on the other hand the paxil I put 1.5ml of paxil in 25 ml of water and at this moment I throw 11.8ml and I drink the rest so logically I am at 0.79ml so 1.58mg of paxil 
on the other hand as I have always diluted the paxil in water.
I wonder how I'm going to do it when I'm going to reduce it. 
I tried to take 0.79ml because I have it in syrup but I felt very bad and I still feel bad I don't know if it's due to this change. 
so I do 1.5ml paxil again in 25ml 
Here's hoping you understand me. 
Have a good day and thank you again for your help. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Rola-- Alto has asked me to help with your calculations. I need some information before I can really do anything. 

 

It looks like you are trying to cross taper between paxil and fluoxetine decreasing the paxil  to zero and increasing the fluoxetine to a full dose.  Is this correct?

 

What is the full dose of fluoxetine that you are trying to get to?

 

What is the dose of fluoxetine you are currently taking in mL? How long have you been taking it?

 

What is the current does of paxil you're taking in mL? Are you diluting the original liquid by adding some of it to water, and then only drinking part of the water? How long have you been taking it?

 

Your last post looked like you reduced the paxil from 1.5mL to 0.79mL, but it made you feel bad so you went back to 1.5mL.  Is that what happened?

 

That's enough for now, your answers may raise some more questions, but we will get this sorted out.

 

Brassmonkey

[rola]

hello
18 December day 2 months and 9 days at 1.58mg paxil 
I woke up at 5H30 a. m. 
8H30 1.58mg paxil
I would lie down all day because of instability 10 ;vision disorder 10 
around 6pm anxiety 10 which lasts 20 minutes 
I fell asleep around 11:00 p. m. and woke up at 8:00 a. m. 

have a good day

[rola]

@cuivré

hello brassmonkey 
I hope you are well. 
I don't take fluoxetine;
I am since October 9 at 1.58mg of paxil or 0.79ML.
I take it that way:
I use paxil 20mg for 10ml in solution so I take 1.5ml of paxil which I dilute in 25ml of water. 
I throw 11.8ml and drink the rest.

so normally I am at 1.58mg or 0.79ml of paxil.

I work like that when I arrived at 1.5ml of paxil so 3mg in 2016. it is the French forum that advised me to always put 1.5 ml of deroxat in 25 ml of water. 
I tried to take only 0.79 ml for three days but I was not well, I don't know if there was any impact. 
like it's been 2 months since I restored to 1.58mg and I'm not well.
I don't know if I should wait or go through fluoxetine.
I hope you understood me and that I didn't confuse you with my numbers. 
thank you to you 

[Erell]

1 hour ago, rola said:

 

I tried to take only 0.79 ml for three days but I was not well

Rola means that during 3 days she took 0.79ml directly from the bottle instead of doing her usual titration. 

 

So if I summarize: 

- Rola updosed from 1.48mg To 1.58mg on last  9th October and take this dose since.

She has a liquid prescription. In France, our Paxil bottles are: 20mg = 10ml.

So 1.58mg = 0.79ml.

To get the 0.79ml she put 1.5ml of Paxil into 25ml of water, mix it and then take her 0.79ml from it.

 

- she is not taking fluoxétine, she hasnt tried yet. 

 

- Her questions are :

 

1.as its only been two months at 1.58mg, would it be better for her To wait longer at that dose instead of making changes ?

 

2. Rola struggles with calculations: Altostrata suggested To add 0.25mg fluoxétine : 

--》 she has a fluoxétine bottle in which 20mg = 5ml : how can she get 0.25mg ?

( @brassmonkey : need your calculations/titration expertise on this )

 

3. As Rola is a bit scared by this switch, she Feels the need To understand what comes next.

@rola : I tthink Altostrata answered you on this one. If you look at your thread she said : 

- that we need To see how you do with 0.25mg fluoxétine before making any further plan

- that if it goes Well, you could : reduce by 0.25mg Paxil every week and in the mean time add 0.25mg fluoxétine every week

- When you'll be off Paxil, you would need To stabilise for some time on Fluoxétine. 

@Altostrata : is that right? (Sorry and thank you for your time with us, french folks 😊)

 

(Rola : je crois qu'Altostrata t'a répondu sur la marche à suivre  : 

- d'abord voir comment tu réagis au 0.25mg de fluoxétine 

- si tout va bien, tu pourrais enlever chaque semaine 0.25mg de Deroxat tout en ajoutant chaque semaine 0.25mg de Fluoxétine. 

- quand tu n'auras plus de Deroxat, il faudra laisser du temps à ton cerveau pour se stabiliser avec la fluoxétine. )

 

 

Rola perhaps you could write what suppléments you have tried, the doses, and what you are taking now ? 

(Rola, pourrais tu nous préciser quels suppléments tu as essayé cet automne, à quelles doses, et ce que tu prends exactement maintenant?)

 

+ there is a topic on Prozac bridge Rola, i'll put the link here this evening.

(Il y a un topic sur le switch au Prozac Rola, je te mettrai le lien ici ce soir).

 

 

Rola : est ce que j'ai résumé toutes tes questions ?

(Did I summarize all your questions?)

 

❤

[rola]

This means an increase is going in the correct direction. As it's been more than a month, you might want to add more SSRI.

 

Paroxetine is very difficult to go off. You might consider a gradual switch to fluoxetine (Prozac). Have you ever had a bad reaction to fluoxetine?

 

Fluoxetine comes in a prescription liquid. You might add 0.25mg fluoxetine to your 1.58mg paroxetine, wait a week, let us know how you're doing.

 

If all goes well, you could then decrease paroxetine by 0.25mg. Gradually add fluoxetine and reduce paroxetine; over the next few weeks, you'll be off paroxetine. Then you can stabilize on fluoxetine and taper that.

 

 

  On 12/5/2019 at 3:18 AM, Altostrata said:

We need to see the effect of 0.5mg fluoxetine added to 1.58mg paroxetine before making any plans. If it works well, you might reduce paroxetine by 0.5mg within the week.

 

 

 

greeting 
thanks erell for the translation 
I think it's all going to be complicated because I always put 1.5ml of deroxat in 25ml.
I think I'll wait again and then I'll see. 
I'm really sorry to bother you with all this.
I should have taken the dose I needed directly because paxil exists in liquid.

and a last question is it possible to have effects when I take 0.79ml of paxil directly?

 

thank you very much for your help 

[Erell]

13 minutes ago, rola said:

 

and a last question is it possible to have effects when I take 0.79ml of paxil directly?

Well, everything seems possible in WD

I believe that when we change our methods, there can be some fluctuations in the dose. 

You noticed bad effects when you changed your method To take Paxil, so better To use your usual method

 

 

(Eh bien tout semble possible en matière de sevrage 

Je pense que quand on change de méthode il peut y avoir des variations de dose. 

Tu as remarqué des effets quand tu as changé de méthode, donc c'est probablement mieux de continuer avec ta méthode habituelle )

[rola]

1 hour ago, Erell said:

Well, everything seems possible in WD

I believe that when we change our methods, there can be some fluctuations in the dose. 

You noticed bad effects when you changed your method To take Paxil, so better To use your usual method

 

 

(Eh bien tout semble possible en matière de sevrage 

Je pense que quand on change de méthode il peut y avoir des variations de dose. 

Tu as remarqué des effets quand tu as changé de méthode, donc c'est probablement mieux de continuer avec ta méthode habituelle )

@erell 

hi 
I think it's gonna be **** if I do the brassmonkey method.
I really don't know how I'm gonna convert these doses. Have a good day. 

[Altostrata]

8 hours ago, Erell said:

3. As Rola is a bit scared by this switch, she Feels the need To understand what comes next.

@rola : I tthink Altostrata answered you on this one. If you look at your thread she said : 

- that we need To see how you do with 0.25mg fluoxétine before making any further plan

- that if it goes Well, you could : reduce by 0.25mg Paxil every week and in the mean time add 0.25mg fluoxétine every week

- When you'll be off Paxil, you would need To stabilise for some time on Fluoxétine. 

@Altostrata : is that right? (Sorry and thank you for your time with us, french folks 😊)

 

More detail: Add 0.25mg fluoxetine, see what happens. If all is well, reduce by 0.25mg paroxetine.

 

Then add 0.25mg fluoxetine, wait a few days, reduce by 0.25mg paroxetine. Add 0.25mg fluoxetine, wait a few days....Continue until paroxetine has been replaced by fluoxetine.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide method is for tapering, not a drug switch. @brassmonkey will help you figure out how to measure your liquid fluoxetine.

[rola]

@Altostrata

Hello, thank you. 
for your answer, I understand better 
but I think it's going to be hard to do.
I'm not good at math. 
I couldn't do it because I always put 1.5ml in 25ml of water and throw away 11.8ml which makes me a dose of 1.58mg at the moment.
so if I had to deduct 0.25 milligrams, I wouldn't know how to do it. 
If I took the Paxil straight up, I could do it.
Sorry again, but I'm a little lost. 
nice day 
 

[Altostrata]

@brassmonkey will help you make a plan.

[rola]

3 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

@brassmonkey vous aidera à faire un plan.

thanks 

[brassmonkey]

Erell-- Thank you so much for helping translate and explain things.  Your help is very much appreciated.

 

Rola-- thank you for the current information about how you are taking your medications.  I actually do understand the numbers that you are posting.

 

I have read everything you have written since the beginning of October and can see several things that need to be addressed.

 

Deroxat can cause a reaction in the body that looks and feels like hypoglycemia but there is no actual drop in blood sugar levels.  I had this and it took a long time to understand what was happening. It is very important to eat something every two hours all day long.  One of the best things is a combination of nuts, chocolate and dried fruit.  In America we have what is called "Rainbow trail mix". I have used it for years and it really helped stabilize the symptoms of the Derxat induced hypoglycemia.  By adding these small snacks every few hours the instability should improve as well as your vision.  It may take several days to a week or so to see any real changes.

 

I am concerned about your increase in "brain zaps".  This is an indication that your dose has been reduced too fast or too far. This reduction in dose would also contribute to the unsteadiness, anxiety, and the other symptoms you have been talking about.  For the time being I think it would be best not to try and add any other drugs, but rather, do a very small increase in the amount of Deroxat that you are taking. I think a 5% increase could be helpful.  So you would increase your dose to 1.65mg. Then you would hold at this level until around the end of January.  If this sounds interesting let me know and I will calculate the dose size you will need.

 

Brassmonkey

[rola]

@brassmonkey

hello 
thank you for your response, 
I thought I was in a waves  because I'm better except for instability and blurred vision, but if I have to raise my level I will;
thank you for your advice on low blood sugar.
and for your time. 
Have a nice day. 

[Altostrata]

@brassmonkey I am thinking the added SSRI might as well be fluoxetine as rola is having such a hard time with paroxetine, as is common at low doses of the drug. This would be the first round of a cross-taper to fluoxetine.

[brassmonkey]

I'll need to know the target/final dose for the fluoxetine.

[rola]

hello 
for the moment, I'm still on 1.58 milligrams of paxil? 
thank you