Iman: weaning off nortriptyline, withdrawal battlefield

[ADWarrior]

Hi Iman, 

 

I just found your post and would like to ask you as I m currently going through Noritren WD and despite going slowly  I had to up-dose as I had very strong suicidal symptoms. However I would like to try again with even slower tapper. I assume the idea of creating a water solution is the only way but I have only the 10mg coated tablets available which I assume is the same you have available. 

 

I am taking 10mg AM and 10mg PM. My first cut was from 10mg to 7.5mg in the morning and I had strong but manageable W/S for 3 weeks then 1 week stabilized so I decided to cut further PM but less so I cut only from 10mg to 0.875mg and the hell broke loose. I was having much stronger W/S from the next day but could managed until I had to take a flight where I almost lost it. I went to visit my doctor the next day and he suggested to up dose immediately to the original dose AM and PM. So after painful almost 3 months I am back where I started  Probably it is good to mention that I have WD from 2 x benzos this year already  It was much easier to be honest although not without a WS but was able to keep my job. 

 

1. How is the Vodka suggestion going and if you are using 10mg Nortiptyline tablet with the solid coating and if it does dissolve in the solution? 

2. Have you been during your tapper able to work and continue to live close to normal or did you have to take many days off?

3. As well wanted to ask you if you had any of the following symptom's at all as I have searched and searched and I cant find anyone who did ( strong pin and needles feeling all over body, any suicidal thoughts) ?

 

Thank you for your time and consideration. 

[Iman]

@ChessieCat @Altostrata @brassmonkey

 

Hi there everyone

 

Hope you're all doing good and having a great time.

 

Actually I've been planning to switch my taper from film-coated Nortriptyline tablets to liquid form for the past few weeks. Gained some pretty valuable advice from dear Brassmonkey concerning the ethenol method. I'm currently on 9.5 mg(cut a tiny piece of a 10 mg tablet and take the rest). Have a few questions about this very important step of my taper which has occupied my brain for some time now:

1. I dropped a 10 mg tablet into 20 ml of distilled water, stirred it with a small spoon until i could see the contents of the pill dissolved fairly evenly in the glass of water. I could see the transparent distilled water turned somewhat whitish. Is this good enough for a liquid taper or do i have to necessarily go ahead with ethenol method (original 90 proof vodka is so hard to find in my country and most products are fake and contain either lower or higher amounts of alcohol and thus not reliable for this delicate procedure at all) or the Ora-plus thing?

2. I don't want to crush the tablet as this might create a mess in terms of transferring the crushed tablet into the glass of water and there'd be a possibilty to lose some tiny dose here. Can I just go ahead with directly putting the tablet into water and stir it until it's fairly dissolved?

3. And my last question is whether it'd be possible NOT to do a crossover and try at least once at my current dose of 9.5 mg(which I've been on for the past 2.5 months) to see how it pans out? Maybe my system won't react. And if it did ever react, I'd try a crossover from the following night?

 

I'd be infinitely grateful for your truly helpful and life-saving guidance and advice. 🌹🌷😊

 

 

[Iman]

On 11/15/2021 at 10:19 AM, ADWarrior said:

Hi Iman, 

 

I just found your post and would like to ask you as I m currently going through Noritren WD and despite going slowly  I had to up-dose as I had very strong suicidal symptoms. However I would like to try again with even slower tapper. I assume the idea of creating a water solution is the only way but I have only the 10mg coated tablets available which I assume is the same you have available. 

 

I am taking 10mg AM and 10mg PM. My first cut was from 10mg to 7.5mg in the morning and I had strong but manageable W/S for 3 weeks then 1 week stabilized so I decided to cut further PM but less so I cut only from 10mg to 0.875mg and the hell broke loose. I was having much stronger W/S from the next day but could managed until I had to take a flight where I almost lost it. I went to visit my doctor the next day and he suggested to up dose immediately to the original dose AM and PM. So after painful almost 3 months I am back where I started  Probably it is good to mention that I have WD from 2 x benzos this year already  It was much easier to be honest although not without a WS but was able to keep my job. 

 

1. How is the Vodka suggestion going and if you are using 10mg Nortiptyline tablet with the solid coating and if it does dissolve in the solution? 

2. Have you been during your tapper able to work and continue to live close to normal or did you have to take many days off?

3. As well wanted to ask you if you had any of the following symptom's at all as I have searched and searched and I cant find anyone who did ( strong pin and needles feeling all over body, any suicidal thoughts) ?

 

Thank you for your time and consideration. 

@ADWarrior

 

Hello dear Adwarrior

 

Hope you're doing fine. Actually I'm in 2 minds about whether to switch to liquid form or not. It looks so scary to me and too big a change with possibly unpredictable outcomes. My 10 mg tablets are film-coated but seem to dissolve well in distilled water upon several good rounds of stirring with a small spoon. 90 proof vodka is extremely difficult to find in where I live so that'd be an almost ruled-out option. I believe I have to get the guts to try the water suspension form at least once and see how it plays out. I've just sought the advice of the moderators on doing an abrupt shift to water solution for just one night so that I can determine how I should proceed with my taper. This has occupied my mind for almost 3 weeks now. This is a crucial stage of the taper and no surprise it's putting me under a lot of pressure. We just have to hope for the best and see how this water method pans out. How have u been doing?

[ADWarrior]

On 11/23/2021 at 3:55 AM, Iman said:

Hello dear Adwarrior

 

Hope you're doing fine. Actually I'm in 2 minds about whether to switch to liquid form or not. It looks so scary to me and too big a change with possibly unpredictable outcomes. My 10 mg tablets are film-coated but seem to dissolve well in distilled water upon several good rounds of stirring with a small spoon. 90 proof vodka is extremely difficult to find in where I live so that'd be an almost ruled-out option. I believe I have to get the guts to try the water suspension form at least once and see how it plays out. I've just sought the advice of the moderators on doing an abrupt shift to water solution for just one night so that I can determine how I should proceed with my taper. This has occupied my mind for almost 3 weeks now. This is a crucial stage of the taper and no surprise it's putting me under a lot of pressure. We just have to hope for the best and see how this water method pans out. How have u been doing?

 

Hello @Iman

 

thank you for getting back to me! I am trying to work out how to dilute the Noritren which has as well coating on it. I am communicating with another member who will hopefully be able to tell me if the mix that I am getting is good enough to use. I can see there are many small particles in the mix and I am not sure if it is safe to use it as is. I might try the Vodka option as well to see if it is dissolving more evenly. Please check out my introduction page for my progress.

I am still stabilising from my last cut and up-dose. It was too much for my body and I am still having bad W/D symptoms but feeling better. I am cutting on other medicine as well this year and it has been a roller coaster but hoping to get to the finish line somehow  . 

 

I am following your page progress hoping we can find a way to combat this together. 

[Iman]

4 hours ago, ADWarrior said:

 

Hello @Iman

 

thank you for getting back to me! I am trying to work out how to dilute the Noritren which has as well coating on it. I am communicating with another member who will hopefully be able to tell me if the mix that I am getting is good enough to use. I can see there are many small particles in the mix and I am not sure if it is safe to use it as is. I might try the Vodka option as well to see if it is dissolving more evenly. Please check out my introduction page for my progress.

I am still stabilising from my last cut and up-dose. It was too much for my body and I am still having bad W/D symptoms but feeling better. I am cutting on other medicine as well this year and it has been a roller coaster but hoping to get to the finish line somehow  . 

 

I am following your page progress hoping we can find a way to combat this together. 

@ADWarrior

 

Hi there dear ADWarrior( I love your ID name it is full of meaning, courage and hope)

 

It's great to hear you're doing better. I know you're a capable man being able to make it this far having to deal with more than one of these evils. I, too, had to get rid of several others as you can see in my signature. But I have to admit Nortriptyline taper has been perhaps the toughest one for me but as you might know I came down all the way from 100 to 9.5 mg so far, so this is pretty doable. Your dose has been low from the very beginning so you hopefully wouldn't have to go through much. The liquid taper is new to me so I'd naturally do anything to the best of my ability to make this as smooth and predictable as possible. A good idea is to take a part of your dose in liquid form when you feel you're stable enough to do so. For my case, it'd be a few days from now. We'll work it out somehow. It's a great feeling to know we're dealing with this in a team work, this will be a great boost to our spirit. I'll stay in touch with you. Take care. 🙏🌷🌹

[ADWarrior]

16 hours ago, Iman said:

@ADWarrior

 

Hi there dear ADWarrior( I love your ID name it is full of meaning, courage and hope)

 

It's great to hear you're doing better. I know you're a capable man being able to make it this far having to deal with more than one of these evils. I, too, had to get rid of several others as you can see in my signature. But I have to admit Nortriptyline taper has been perhaps the toughest one for me but as you might know I came down all the way from 100 to 9.5 mg so far, so this is pretty doable. Your dose has been low from the very beginning so you hopefully wouldn't have to go through much. The liquid taper is new to me so I'd naturally do anything to the best of my ability to make this as smooth and predictable as possible. A good idea is to take a part of your dose in liquid form when you feel you're stable enough to do so. For my case, it'd be a few days from now. We'll work it out somehow. It's a great feeling to know we're dealing with this in a team work, this will be a great boost to our spirit. I'll stay in touch with you. Take care. 🙏🌷🌹

 

Hi @Iman

 

thank you for getting back  to me and for your kind words! I can see you have been through a lot and has been in this for longer than me. I have to Congratulate you that you have made it all the way from where you started. I cant believe somebody put you on the Nortiptyline for vertigo 

 

I am just wondering if you have found a way to make a liquid out of your tablets? My tablet doesn't dissolve in water and ends up having too many particles in it. I havent tried the Vodka suggestion yet. Please see the pictures attached and let me know if yours look differently when put in water. Thank you 

 

Noritren 10mg tablet in Japan original version

Noritren mixed in water

 

 

[Iman]

8 hours ago, ADWarrior said:

 

Hi @Iman

 

thank you for getting back  to me and for your kind words! I can see you have been through a lot and has been in this for longer than me. I have to Congratulate you that you have made it all the way from where you started. I cant believe somebody put you on the Nortiptyline for vertigo 

 

I am just wondering if you have found a way to make a liquid out of your tablets? My tablet doesn't dissolve in water and ends up having too many particles in it. I havent tried the Vodka suggestion yet. Please see the pictures attached and let me know if yours look differently when put in water. Thank you 

 

Noritren 10mg tablet in Japan original version

Noritren mixed in water

 

 

Hey there bud

 

Thanks for all the kindness and sweet words. Pretty nice of you. I checked the photos you sent. The particles seem to be unevenly dissolved as you pointed out earlier. Did you try stirring the mix in a glass of water or just left the tablet to dissolve by itslef? My tablets seem to mix well into water of course only upon a good round of stirring with a small spoon. I'll send you photos of my solid tablets and one mixed into water after stirring once I'm back home. I believe as you probably have access to good quality vodka in japan, your tablets will eventually dissolve nicely in a mix of ethenol and water. The legendary @brassmonkey has sent some pretty valuable info on how to accurately and precisely get a fine liquid potion upon using minimal use of ethenol and 90 proof vodka. You can find the post on the formula on my page a few posts earlier to our first correspondence. This will hopefully give you some insight on how to get the best of your liquid solution. I'm always there for you. Once we get the hang of this stage and get a little used to the liquid format, the rest will be smooth and predictable enough to handle. Take good care. I'll keep in touch. 🌹🌷👍

[Iman]

@ADWarrior

 

Hey there bud

 

Thanks for all the kindness and sweet words. Pretty nice of you. I checked the photos you sent. The particles seem to be unevenly dissolved as you pointed out earlier. Did you try stirring the mix in a glass of water or just left the tablet to dissolve by itslef? My tablets seem to mix well into water of course only upon a good round of stirring with a small spoon. I'll send you photos of my solid tablets and one mixed into water after stirring once I'm back home. I believe as you probably have access to good quality vodka in japan, your tablets will eventually dissolve nicely in a mix of ethenol and water. The legendary @brassmonkey has sent some pretty valuable info on how to accurately and precisely get a fine liquid potion upon using minimal use of ethenol and 90 proof vodka. You can find the post on the formula on my page a few posts earlier to our first correspondence. This will hopefully give you some insight on how to get the best of your liquid solution. I'm always there for you. Once we get the hang of this stage and get a little used to the liquid format, the rest will be smooth and predictable enough to handle. Take good care. I'll keep in touch. 🌹🌷👍

[PsychologicalSafe15]

Nortriptyline really gives strong suicidal thoughts.

@Iman u able to poop ? how is your bowl movement ? how often do you poop ??

Since I quit nortriptyline I dont poop like once in 7 days or very less poop

[Iman]

2 hours ago, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

Nortriptyline really gives strong suicidal thoughts.

@Iman u able to poop ? how is your bowl movement ? how often do you poop ??

Since I quit nortriptyline I dont poop like once in 7 days or very less poop

Hi @PsychologicalSafe15

 

I get so many intrusive thoughts from Nortriptyline but I trust you already know this is your brain being under stress and not you creating these thoughts. Nortriptyline does cause constipation especially at higher doses. I usually use a mix of lemon and extra virgin olive oil to help control this symptom. Rose water seems to be a good option in this regard as well.

[PsychologicalSafe15]

I am off it. Still I get lots of intrusive thoughts and I am not able to poop. OH GOD . Nortriptyline and paroxetine has the most severe withdrawal symptoms overall. Most dangerous , It is very hard to tolerate pain. I am 3 months off still very very critical issues I have. Lots of suicidal thoughts . 

[Altostrata]

@Iman please see Tips for tapering off nortriptyline 

 

Can anyone help Iman with his questions about how to make a liquid from nortriptyline tablets?

 

 

[Iman]

@Altostrata

 

Thanks a billion dear Alto. I'm just about to shift to liquid form in a few days. I just want to make sure I'm thorough and safe enough during this important transition. I hope I can hear from the experts and those with the successful experience of water solution and suspension in regards to the questions I asked above. I will include a few photos of my solid tablets and the water suspension in a few hours. Thanks again. 🌷🌹🙏

[ChessieCat]

Have you seen this topic?

 

cross-over-changing-form-eg-tablet-to-liquid-of-drug-or-changing-brand-of-same-drug/

 

[Iman]

@Altostrata @brassmonkey @ChessieCat @Colonial @ADWarrior

 

Hello my dears

 

As promised, I'm sending you attached the photos I took from my solid tablets, the distilled water in a glass and the suspension after dropping the tablet into the water and stirring it with a tiny spoon a few good rounds. I'd truly appreciate it if you let me know of your opinion regarding whether it is safe to switch to and move along with this solution or not. Thanks a ton in advance. 🌷🌹🙏

 

[Iman]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

Have you seen this topic?

 

cross-over-changing-form-eg-tablet-to-liquid-of-drug-or-changing-brand-of-same-drug/

 

Dear @ChessieCat

 

First of all allow me to heartily congratulate you on your huge leap to the other side of the finish line. I'm so excited and happy for you. 👏👏👏You're truly a rolemodel for me. You're a strong person with a larger-than-life character. As for the link you kindly sent me, I did go over it but I could hardly find the answers to the questions I have in mind especially regarding whether I should let the tablet dissolve by itself into water or it's okay to stir it much as you can with a tiny spoon until you get a fairly-distributed suspension.

[Nomansland]

Hello @Iman,

 

as you have pointed out, without ethanol you're going to make a suspension rather than a solution. I think Brassmonkey described it as "particels hanging in water like a cloud". That means you have to stir it right before you take out and discard what you dont need (or take out what you need) with your syringe/pipette, to make sure the particels are as evenly distributed as possible in the water.

 

Usually tablets dont take long to disintegrate into very small particels in the water (= suspension). In my opinion your suspension looks like it should. Drop the tablet in a known amount of water, let it disintegrate (you can stir it a bit every few minutes, if you think that helps) and then proceed with your syringe/pipette. Again, always stir it right before you draw something up in your syringe. Just be carefull not to spill anything.

 

This is what Rhiannon, a very experienced member, said about making suspensions.

On 5/2/2011 at 5:00 AM, Rhiannon said:

Otherwise, given variable solubility of drugs, what you're usually doing when you mix a tablet or content capsules with water is creating a suspension, rather than a solution.

 

High solubility is not a requirement for a suspension. Substances that dissolve in solutions will be more reliably distributed evenly throughout the solution, but we have to work with what we've got. A suspension does not require solubility. It's a bunch of particles hanging in a liquid, hopefully fairly evenly distributed. There may be flakes or particles visible in the suspension, some sinking to the bottom of the vessel. We recommend gently shaking or stirring before drawing out a dose from a homemade suspension (avoid creating a froth, because bubbles can throw your dose measurement off), to make sure the active ingredient (the drug) is distributed throughout the liquid.

 

Do you know how to calculate your dose?

 

As ChessieCat posted, its often better to do a transition from tablet to DIY liquid. Its the same manufacturer and so on, but it can get absorbed faster in the body. A mindful transition can help avoiding possible symptoms from the change. Please look into the thread in her post, to make sure you know how to make this transition.

 

Here is a whole thread about making liquid from tablets with a lot of tips and members experiences:

 

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

[Iman]

8 hours ago, Nomansland said:

Hello @Iman,

 

as you have pointed out, without ethanol you're going to make a suspension rather than a solution. I think Brassmonkey described it as "particels hanging in water like a cloud". That means you have to stir it right before you take out and discard what you dont need (or take out what you need) with your syringe/pipette, to make sure the particels are as evenly distributed as possible in the water.

 

Usually tablets dont take long to disintegrate into very small particels in the water (= suspension). In my opinion your suspension looks like it should. Drop the tablet in a known amount of water, let it disintegrate (you can stir it a bit every few minutes, if you think that helps) and then proceed with your syringe/pipette. Again, always stir it right before you draw something up in your syringe. Just be carefull not to spill anything.

 

This is what Rhiannon, a very experienced member, said about making suspensions.

 

Do you know how to calculate your dose?

 

As ChessieCat posted, its often better to do a transition from tablet to DIY liquid. Its the same manufacturer and so on, but it can get absorbed faster in the body. A mindful transition can help avoiding possible symptoms from the change. Please look into the thread in her post, to make sure you know how to make this transition.

 

Here is a whole thread about making liquid from tablets with a lot of tips and members experiences:

 

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

 

Dear @Nomansland

 

I just can't thank you enough for your pretty insightful and constructive information. I believe my best bet would be to try the liquid form at my current dose for a few nights and put up with the possible symptoms until my system is settled with the new change. I read somewhere in the thread about liquid from tablets that it's better to take the liquid dose on a relatively full stomach as this will somehow slow down the rapid absorption of the dose which results from liquid the form, is this true? Would I be better off drinking the liquid on a full stomach? I usually take my solid tablet on a relatively empty stomach. My biggest problem with doing a cross-over apart from the mess it creates in terms of dividing doses is that I usually take my full dose in one go at 8.30 pm every night and in doing a cross-over I'd need to take 2 divided doses which might turn out problematic in terms of creating new symptoms. What do you think I should do here? Take both doses altogether and at the same time or is it better to create some interval in terms of minutes or even hours between the 2 doses(the solid dose and the liquid form)? I'd be most grateful for any helpful input here. Thanks again for you kind attention and consideration. 🙏🌹🌷

[Nomansland]

57 minutes ago, Iman said:

 

Dear @Nomansland

 

I just can't thank you enough for your pretty insightful and constructive information. I believe my best bet would be to try the liquid form at my current dose for a few nights and put up with the possible symptoms until my system is settled with the new change. I read somewhere in the thread about liquid from tablets that it's better to take the liquid dose on a relatively full stomach as this will somehow slow down the rapid absorption of the dose which results from liquid the form, is this true? Would I be better off drinking the liquid on a full stomach? I usually take my solid tablet on a relatively empty stomach. My biggest problem with doing a cross-over apart from the mess it creates in terms of dividing doses is that I usually take my full dose in one go at 8.30 pm every night and in doing a cross-over I'd need to take 2 divided doses which might turn out problematic in terms of creating new symptoms. What do you think I should do here? Take both doses altogether and at the same time or is it better to create some interval in terms of minutes or even hours between the 2 doses(the solid dose and the liquid form)? I'd be most grateful for any helpful input here. Thanks again for you kind attention and consideration. 🙏🌹🌷

 

Hello @Iman,

 

were all in this together and will make it to the other end! ( :

 

A switch from tablet to DIY liquid without transition can work, we are all different. But people seem to have it easier doing a transition. Think of it as a dose change event, so dont taper while transition to liquid and give yourself some time to see how you react.

 

If you take your med on a relative empty stomach right now, you may want to continue doing that. Just try to be consistent and do only one change at a time. The lesser variabels you change, the more you can keep track of whats going on afterwards.

 

You dont need to space out the dosages, normally our medications are dissolved quite fast in our stomach (especially on a quite empty one). But i remember when i did the transition, i actually did take the liquid part of it about 20 to 30 minutes later. But i dont think it makes a difference. A bigger difference would be one day on a really full stomach and then one day on a completly empty one, so you want to choose one or the other and do it the same every single time. You definitly dont need to take the doses hours apart. Wise ChessieCat told me several times that consistency is more important than absolute accuracy when we dose our meds (but of course we need to be careful).

 

If you already know how to calculate your dose, its always a good idea to write it down here in your thread (the way you want to dose and your calculation). So a moderator could take a look at it and provide some tips.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi Iman, 

 

I just wanted to let you know I’ve been water titrating my Seroquel tablet for many, many years without problems. I crush it with a mortar and pestle and just add water. It does look like the photo of the liquid you showed here too. 
 

Hope all goes well with your transition🤗

[Iman]

On 11/28/2021 at 1:16 AM, Nomansland said:

 

Hello @Iman,

 

were all in this together and will make it to the other end! ( :

 

A switch from tablet to DIY liquid without transition can work, we are all different. But people seem to have it easier doing a transition. Think of it as a dose change event, so dont taper while transition to liquid and give yourself some time to see how you react.

 

If you take your med on a relative empty stomach right now, you may want to continue doing that. Just try to be consistent and do only one change at a time. The lesser variabels you change, the more you can keep track of whats going on afterwards.

 

You dont need to space out the dosages, normally our medications are dissolved quite fast in our stomach (especially on a quite empty one). But i remember when i did the transition, i actually did take the liquid part of it about 20 to 30 minutes later. But i dont think it makes a difference. A bigger difference would be one day on a really full stomach and then one day on a completly empty one, so you want to choose one or the other and do it the same every single time. You definitly dont need to take the doses hours apart. Wise ChessieCat told me several times that consistency is more important than absolute accuracy when we dose our meds (but of course we need to be careful).

 

If you already know how to calculate your dose, its always a good idea to write it down here in your thread (the way you want to dose and your calculation). So a moderator could take a look at it and provide some tips.

 

Greetings

 

Nomansland

 

 

Hi there @Nomansland

 

Pretty useful stuff. Your thorough explanation has served to considerably reduce the stress I've been going through due to the transition from solid to liquid. So from what I gathered, it's better that I take my water dose on a relatively empty stomach and stay on the same pattern that I adhered to when taking a whole solid tablet. I'm gonna try the crossover from tomorrow night hopefully. I'll do my best to stay as consistent as possible in the coming days. I'm really thankful dear Nomansland. You've been pretty helpful and kind. 🌷🌹🙏

[Iman]

Hello there dear @Carmie

 

It's so relieving to hear that my potion looks pretty much like the one you've been using for a long time without experiencing any problem. Did you do a cross-over when switching from solid to liquid? If so, how long did your cross-over stage take? Forgive for my too personal questions, it's just that you're a successful example of liquid use and taper and this is really reassuring. Thanks again for your encouragement. Sending you healing hugs. 🙏🌹🌷

[Carmie]

10 hours ago, Iman said:

Hello there dear @Carmie

 

It's so relieving to hear that my potion looks pretty much like the one you've been using for a long time without experiencing any problem. Did you do a cross-over when switching from solid to liquid? If so, how long did your cross-over stage take? Forgive for my too personal questions, it's just that you're a successful example of liquid use and taper and this is really reassuring. Thanks again for your encouragement. Sending you healing hugs. 🙏🌹🌷

Hi Iman, 

 

No, I didn’t do a crossover from tablet to liquid as I knew nothing about crossovers at the time. A lot of my past is a big blur because of my memory problems from my illness, but by some miracle I managed to get myself down from 300mg to 7.50mg of Seroquel before I came on this site. 
 

I do highly recommend a crossover though, because when I first started on this site I was going to go from water titrating my tablet to water titrating a compounded capsule.
 

As I knew nothing about crossovers I just changed formulas, I didn’t change the amount, and I went through severe waves for months. I just went from water titrating 7.50mg of the tablet to water titrating a 7.50mg compounded capsule that was made for me. Not a good idea at all without a crossover, I paid for it. 
 

Anyway, Brassmonkey mentioned that the original tablets would be more accurate than a compounded formula, so I decided to go back to water titrating the tablet, but this time I did a crossover and I didn’t have months of severe waves. I had to wait until the waves subsided though before I went back to water titrating the original tablet. 
 

So, I really, really recommend crossovers. I held every step of the crossover for quite a while, I’d have to go through my thread to see how long. I was in no hurry, I just didn’t want to get months of severe waves again. I was really happy to learn about crossovers.

 

All the best, sending hugs🤗

[Iman]

3 hours ago, Carmie said:

Hi Iman, 

 

No, I didn’t do a crossover from tablet to liquid as I knew nothing about crossovers at the time. A lot of my past is a big blur because of my memory problems from my illness, but by some miracle I managed to get myself down from 300mg to 7.50mg of Seroquel before I came on this site. 
 

I do highly recommend a crossover though, because when I first started on this site I was going to go from water titrating my tablet to water titrating a compounded capsule.
 

As I knew nothing about crossovers I just changed formulas, I didn’t change the amount, and I went through severe waves for months. I just went from water titrating 7.50mg of the tablet to water titrating a 7.50mg compounded capsule that was made for me. Not a good idea at all without a crossover, I paid for it. 
 

Anyway, Brassmonkey mentioned that the original tablets would be more accurate than a compounded formula, so I decided to go back to water titrating the tablet, but this time I did a crossover and I didn’t have months of severe waves. I had to wait until the waves subsided though before I went back to water titrating the original tablet. 
 

So, I really, really recommend crossovers. I held every step of the crossover for quite a while, I’d have to go through my thread to see how long. I was in no hurry, I just didn’t want to get months of severe waves again. I was really happy to learn about crossovers.

 

All the best, sending hugs🤗

Hey there dear @Carmie

 

Thanks a bunch for the heads-up. I was about to do an abrupt switch from solid to liquid and now thanks to your first-hand experience, I'm gonna do a gradual crossover. I don't wanna risk going through a wave, I'll give myself a 2 week time for the garadual crossover. I believe this must be enough time for my system to get used to the liquid form, hopefully. Thanks again for candidly sharing your valuable experience with me. 🌷🌹🙏

[Carmie]

10 hours ago, Iman said:

Hey there dear @Carmie

 

Thanks a bunch for the heads-up. I was about to do an abrupt switch from solid to liquid and now thanks to your first-hand experience, I'm gonna do a gradual crossover. I don't wanna risk going through a wave, I'll give myself a 2 week time for the garadual crossover. I believe this must be enough time for my system to get used to the liquid form, hopefully. Thanks again for candidly sharing your valuable experience with me. 🌷🌹🙏

I’m glad you’re going to do a crossover Iman, 

 

I just had a quick look through my thread and I held the first part of my crossover for twelve days. I must have been super cautious 😁 because I went through severe waves for months when I didn’t do a crossover. That wasn’t any fun! 
 

My body is extremely sensitive though because I’ve been on and off so many meds. I’m tapering extremely slowly too now as I can’t go any quicker.

 

Have a happy day☀️☀️☀️☀️

[PsychologicalSafe15]

@Iman If you dont mind , how often do you poop ? I am already 3.5 months off and yet I am not able to poop. Even IF I poop, i poop in 6-7 days which is also very very little.

[Iman]

@PsychologicalSafe15

 

Hey there dear buddy.

 

Sorry for my late reply. Been dealing with a wave for the past few days. My bad luck the wave hit right at the time I'd decided to switch to liquid form of my poison. I have to hold until the wave is gone and then do a crossover from my solid tabs to water solution. As for the defecation and bowel movements, I remember I had difficulty defecating from the very get-go, that is the first time I took this crap. I had days with no poops as you put it so I looked for various herbal ways to resolve this. Among the numerous herbs I tried, extra virgin olive oil (one spoonfull mixed with a few drops of lemon) and an herb called Sisymbrium Sophia AKA Flixweed(one spoonfull stirred in warm water and a spoon of honey) worked best when taken on empty stomach first thing in the morning. I remember the first few days they didn't work much but after persistently taking them for almost 2 weeks, I could see the results. Right now my biggest problem which shows no sign of abating is my brain waking me up each time I try to go to sleep through either hypnic jerks, muscle jerks and electric shock sensations not to mention nightmares, it's really bothersome and a true pain in the neck. You have any ideas how I can control this apart from taking magnesium supplements and playing soft music at bedtime? 

[PsychologicalSafe15]

you have to release your energy . you better do some exercise or play some sports.

[ChessieCat]

14 hours ago, Iman said:

As for the defecation and bowel movements, I remember I had difficulty defecating from the very get-go, that is the first time I took this crap. I had days with no poops as you put it so I looked for various herbal ways to resolve this. Among the numerous herbs I tried, extra virgin olive oil (one spoonfull mixed with a few drops of lemon) and an herb called Sisymbrium Sophia AKA Flixweed(one spoonfull stirred in warm water and a spoon of honey) worked best when taken on empty stomach first thing in the morning. I remember the first few days they didn't work much but after persistently taking them for almost 2 weeks, I could see the results.

 

I have changed my diet recently and had some problems with this too.  I found chia seeds to help.  But you do need to drink plenty of water, otherwise they can cause the problem you are trying to fix.

 

27 minutes ago, PsychologicalSafe15 said:

you have to release your energy . you better do some exercise or play some sports.

 

It's a good idea to start with gentle exercise and build it up gradually, and not to do it too late in the day.

[Iman]

8 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

I have changed my diet recently and had some problems with this too.  I found chia seeds to help.  But you do need to drink plenty of water, otherwise they can cause the problem you are trying to fix.

 

 

It's a good idea to start with gentle exercise and build it up gradually, and not to do it too late in the day.

Hello there dear @ChessieCat

 

Thanks a lot for the tips and guidelines. I don't have much complaint about my bowel movement. My biggest problem is actually constant hypnic jerks and quite weird all body electrical zaps when I'm about to fall asleep. The zaps and jerks are pretty intense and happen mostly during the transition from wakefullness to sleep. I'm doing anything I can to curb this but so far not so good. I walk and exerscise routinely every other day but not heavy exercise mostly stretching exercises, walking and lifting dumbbells for no more than 30 minutes.

[Iman]

@Altostrata @ChessieCat @brassmonkey

 

Hello everyone

 

I hope you are doing well and having a great time. Just wanted to check something of importnace to me with dear moderators and members and seek their opinions and advice on it. My wife and I are about to go on a trip to Maldives island in about 3 weeks. We'll have to initially sit a flight to Dubai which will be almost 3 hours long from Tehran where I live(9.30 pm take-off time arriving to Dubai at 12am). Then we'll have to stay the night in the airport and take another flight at 10 AM to Maleh(Maldives). This flight will be 4.5 hours long and our arrival time to Maleh will be 3.5 pm local time. Last time I had an international trip was almost 2 years ago when I was on 30 mg and remember quite well that I had a sleepless night due to the connecting flights I had to take. The trip we're about to go on is an expensive one and we'll be there as tourists for 8 days. The journey however sounds a bit scary to me especially the first 2 flights where I have to stay the night in the airport and try to catch some sleep before my 2nd flight. I'm seriously afraid of having a wave triggered due to lack of sleep and common stressors when on a plane. What's more, there'll be a drastic temperature variation between Tehran(5 to 10 degrees cellisius) and Maldives(20 to 28 degrees cellisius). I was wondering if you could help me here as It's been a long time since I last travelled and wife really insists on taking this trip. I was ok last time I went through a similar situation but it was a while back. Do you think it's ok for me to go on this trip given the temperature variation and probably one sleepless night? I'm on 9.5 mg of Nortriptyline right now. Thanks a lot for attention and kind regard. 🙏🌹

[brassmonkey]

Don't think about WD at all. There are too many other exciting things going on that will distract you. Travel days are a total PITA at best, so get your head into what is happening and go with what ever happens. Catch what sleep you can when ever you can, even just sitting still with your eyes closed and letting your mind go blank. Use common sense with the temperature changes and don't over do exposure. Carry some snacks for the flights and layovers, airport food is even more overpriced than it was just last year. The Dubai airport is one of the best in the world, open airy and pretty pleasant. I rather enjoyed my layovers there. Those are rather short flights, take a book an and an eye mask and you'll be landing before you know it.

 

Enjoy the trip and don't think about the WD.

[Iman]

@brassmonkey

 

It's so heart-warming to hear such exciting accounts from you. I'm so ready to go on this trip and will do my best to enjoy my time much as possible. Your advice has always been instrictive, insightful and constructive for me all throughout my dark days of WD. I've learnt much from you and owe you a tremendous amount. Thankful forever. 🙏🌹

[Iman]

@Altostrata @ChessieCat @brassmonkey 

@ADWarrior

hello everyone 

hope you're all doing great. just thought to pop my head round the door to let you know that i've been able to safely do a crossover to liquid Nortriptyline 9.5 mg using distilled water. although the crossover was successful, i found it wise not to taper in the past 6 months due to several infections i had to deal with including a severe case of strep throat forcing me to go for a 7 day Amoxiclav treatment, an omicron infection in the midst of my stablizing period from antibiotics use and finally a bad case of stomach flu which left me diarrhea and vomitting for 4 successive days. during all this time i maintained my dose of 9.5. now i'm wondering if it's ok to try my first ever taper from liquid Nortriptyline after more than 6 months of staying on my current dose. 

[Altostrata]

Oh, dear, @Iman That's a lot. How do you feel now?

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, Iman said:

now i'm wondering if it's ok to try my first ever taper from liquid Nortriptyline after more than 6 months of staying on my current dose. 

 

It is generally better to hold for longer than to risk reducing too soon.

 

Depending on how you feel, as Alto asked in her post above, if you feel like you might be okay to taper you might consider doing a small test reduction.  For example, only a 1% reduction.

 

The important thing when tapering is to listen to your body/symptoms and hold for longer if you are not stable.

 

Stability

 

WDnormal

 

And Brassmonkey talks more about it here:

 

tao-of-the-brassmonkey