Lzieb: Zoloft 25mg 6 days

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, your post from Dr healey said this:

 

"Treating Severe Discontinuation Difficulties

In terms of the initial treatment of severe discontinuation difficulties, there are serotonergic and non-serotonergic options.

 

The serotonergic options as outlined in a number of withdrawal protocols involve going on a serotonin reuptake inhibitor such as fluoxetine or imipramine, often in liquid form and tapering extremely gradually.

 

A second option involves moving to a tricyclic antidepressant or an antihistamine or St John’s Wort on the basis that these share antihistaminic and serotonin reuptake inhibiting properties in common but are less potent (“gentler”) than SSRIs.

 

A third option involves treating with agents acting on different systems. Apparent success has been reported with choline-esterase inhibitors or lamotrigine. These have appeared in some instances to ease withdrawal problems in individuals who have found it very difficult to get off treatment."

 

 

 

why do you not suggest SJW since he does? also If i went with the fluoxetine, is there a way to taper off of it from there? 

[Altostrata]

Dr. Healey suggestions are hypothetical. He does not take into account your nervous system is hypersensitive.

 

When the boat is rocking, we do not recommend throwing stuff into it.

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, Lzieb said:

I do have two more quick questions, I currently have asthma (allergy, weather, exercise related). Will my rescue inhaler through my body into a tailspin if I have to take it?

 

I don't know. Maybe.

 

2 hours ago, Lzieb said:

What are your thoughts of saffron (for depression)  vit b12 and Vit D. Can I try them slowly and see how I do with them?

 

Try only one thing at a time. When people are hypersensitive, they tend to react poorly to B vitamins.

 

If you try something and you have a bad reaction to it, it will take weeks for your nervous system to gradually settle down from the upset. Please do not get overanxious to fix your condition.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, does everything matter if this is withdrawl or an adverse reaction? how can I know so I can determine what course to take. If its withdrawl, I can go to the fluoxatine and taper down or shave off the zoloft. If its an adverse reaction, I imagine I cant do anything. so is there a way to determine what it is? does recovery differ with both and length of recovery? what makes you feel that I am hypersensitive vs just a normal withdrawl (time frame on medicine?)

 

I know I am asking a lot of questions but my window is closing to fix this so I am looking for help. I appreciate EVERYTHING!!! you have been incredibly helpful. 

 

Also, what can I take for a headache?

[Altostrata]

Please re-read

 

You can take ibuprofen or such for a headache.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, thank you for being so very patient with me. I know it's not easy dealing with someone new like me but you have no idea how helpful it is just to go back and forth with you. When this covid thing is done, and I'm better, I'd love to buy you some coffee. I'm in Maryland... Not sure where you are

 

Or maybe I can get you a gift card or something to your favorite restaurant?

 

Anyway, I am sure I'm not done asking questions but I wanted to express my deep gratitude to you and the team at surviving antidepressants!

 

I start day 15 of my withdrawal tomorrow. I am choosing to look only at it with hope, day by day. Everything else is too much for me. I am fighting the catostrophic thoughts. I know healing is out there. My flesh wants to be better tomorrow but clearly the Lord has different plans for me.

 

Btw,  I am only going to do the calcium and the fish oil for now.

 

The only questions I still have left are about the post acute symptoms...Is that something everyone goes through? How will I know for me? Also, do the symptoms wean in the acute phase and fall off? Is that how I know I'm healing

[Farout]

Hi, I have just answered your PM and popped in here to see how it all started.

 

What you have described sounds exactly like a severe adverse reaction. I have chatted with a lot of people immediately post reaction and those harm thoughts are really common. I had them. They are called ‘intrusive thoughts’ and they are just that - weird thoughts that pop into your head. They get stuck in there because the anxiety reaction they produce tricks your brain into thinking they are important.  
 

Obviously if you think you are really a risk to yourself or others then you must call someone (I warned my husband to keep an eye on me just in case) but generally they are just unpleasant, uncomfortable but still harmless thoughts and an anxiety response caused by your reaction.
 

There may well be more bizarre stuff as you recover. It can take longer than some medical professionals acknowledge. Please don’t lose heart though. You will get better. 

 

I would definitely steer clear of SJW. I tried it a little while after my reaction and it made everything a lot worse. 
 

CBT is an excellent idea.
 

 

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, I read the symptom guide and will start using it today to track my symptoms... Thank you for sending it to me

 

I do have a question on them. There is some scary stuff like suicidal thoughts, self harm, attempts, homicidal thoughts and urges...does everyone go through that? Is it brief or days? How does someone manage that

[Altostrata]

Doctors think withdrawal symptoms last only a few weeks. That is true of the acute phase of withdrawal. Some people go through the acute phase and do not develop PAWS. During the acute phase, if symptoms decrease each day, you most likely will not have a drawn-out PAWS.

 

Acute symptoms tend to fluctuate in waves. If they are severe and remain at a severe level on the average, or get worse over the first few weeks, you are likely to have a more lengthy PAWS.

 

PAWS symptoms tend to fluctuate in waves and mutate. They might travel from one region of the body to another. You may have short windows when you feel better. Over time, the waves get shorter and less severe while windows get longer, but this probably will be very slow and gradual over many months.

 

There are many acute and post-acute symptoms. Few people get all of them. We advise using non-drug methods to manage psychological symptoms, such as thoughts of suicide. Thoughts are just thoughts, you don't have to act on them or even pay attention to them. Not everyone gets psychological symptoms.

 

15 hours ago, Lzieb said:

Btw,  I am only going to do the calcium and the fish oil for now.

 

That would be magnesium and fish oil. Please let us know how you're doing.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, is coughing and chest tightness a withdrawl symptom? Like a cough that comes and goes...i usually have it when I have a tight chest and anxiety. thanks

 

I'm only asking because it isn't in the list but I believe it's associated with anxiety. And mine only started after Zoloft use.

[Altostrata]

Cannot discuss symptoms without context. Maybe. Could be allergies or something else.

[Lzieb]

I read online that anxiety can cause chest tightness and coughing. I was wondering if that was a symptom of withdrawl... especially the chest tightness. It's gotten better but it's still there. 

[Lzieb]

 

I couldn't sleep last night. Had a decent day but then towards the evening everything fell apart. My body felt like it was burning and I had a headache. It kept me up all night. I rested but no sleep...just forcing myself to rest as it's better then nothing.

 

I know my body is in overdrive because of the adverse reaction so taking something like an OTC sleep aid wouldn't work so what happens if I start getting another period of insomnia? How does our body manage that? How do we handle something like no sleep when we can't take anything? After awhile our bodies need rest.

 

I was sleeping fine for almost a week. I did decide to split my magnesium up like someone suggested and took some before bed instead of only in the morning, could that have done it?

 

Thanks... praying this was just a one night thing since my sleep was finally starting to return

 

 

[Lzieb]

 

I couldn't sleep last night. Had a decent day but then towards the evening everything fell apart. My body felt like it was burning and I had a headache. It kept me up all night. I rested but no sleep...just forcing myself to rest as it's better then nothing.

 

I know my body is in overdrive because of the adverse reaction so taking something like an OTC sleep aid wouldn't work so what happens if I start getting another period of insomnia? How does our body manage that? How do we handle something like no sleep when we can't take anything? After awhile our bodies need rest.

 

I was sleeping fine for almost a week. I did decide to split my magnesium up like someone suggested and took some before bed instead of only in the morning, could that have done it?

 

This happened the other night when I took attarax before bed. I know it was only magnesium but could it be that taking something before bed aggravates my body?

 

Thanks... praying this was just a one night thing since my sleep was finally starting to return

 

Here is a rough schedule from yesterday

Woke up had a small cup of coffee (been decreasing) had 2 fish oil and one half (50mg) magnesium

Did school work 10-11

Spent time with family11-12

Had a telecheck appointment 11-12

Had another half pill of magnesium with lunch (around 12-1)

Went on walk with husband around 1

Spent most of the day outside 

Worked out around 4 (leg day)

Had another mag at dinner

School online until 10- had another mag

 

Overall yesterday was a good day...I had symptoms but were mostly manageable with some tougher moments

 

This morning my body feels very bad. I know the lack of sleep has really hurt it.

 

 

 

 

[keogh08]

Hi @Lzieb

 

I hope you are well.

 

Chest pain and chest tightness was one of my initial symptoms straight after my reaction to citalopram 6 months ago. This gradually went away and thankfully I havent had this type of pain for a while now. 

 

One thing that worked for me was to acknowledge it was there but to not pay any attention to it. I know this can be harder than it sounds but it did eventually pass.

 

Take care.

 

 

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, any thoughts about what I wrote above? What can I do if insomnia returns. Thx

[Altostrata]

When your nervous system is hypersensitive, working late on the computer can make it difficult to sleep. You may wish to stop using the computer earlier, such as 8 p.m.

 

See

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

When you have questions about your particular situation, please post them in this topic rather than the general discussion areas. The staff watches the Introductions forum more closely.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, you mentioned arginine... Is that something to consider too? Also I bought the milk peptides. Which should I try first and what dose? Thanks 

[Altostrata]

Please read the relevant topics in the Symptoms and Self-Care forum. I would not rely on supplements, you'll need to look at making other changes as well.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, sorry, the self care post or one of them is where I read about it. I wont take it. Thx for clarification. So sleep can get better? I was sleeping well again almost all last week. I had one hard day (when i took the attarax) and last night. the differences were I had class late last night and I split up the magnesium. I had brain zaps and wasnt able to "fall" asleep. I am hoping I will be ok today. I def took too much too. (200 mg broken into 4)

 

in another post you had written about the acute symptoms and Paws. I was wondering if I could get some clarification...I know you cant tell the future but just your thoughts too

 

You mentioned about the severity of the symptoms and its relationship to Paws. Aside from the two sleep issues this week (and the accompanying awful day). I feel I am getting better. On the days I had sleep issues, the next day was more difficult/severe. Otherwise I feel that my mornings and evenings I have moderate symptoms (still suck but managable). Sometimes I will have the middle of the day almost without any symptoms at all or minor/managable symptoms ...like right now, I only have a headache, chest pressure, anxiety and I am pretty down (discouraged from lack of sleep). Is that what you meant by decreasing? You mentioned below about severity and paws. is that consistent severity or moments of it?  also you wrote if symptoms decrease each day...does that account for moments like I am having? 

On 4/21/2020 at 12:57 PM, Altostrata said:

During the acute phase, if symptoms decrease each day, you most likely will not have a drawn-out PAWS.

On 4/21/2020 at 12:57 PM, Altostrata said:

Acute symptoms tend to fluctuate in waves. If they are severe and remain at a severe level on the average, or get worse over the first few weeks, you are likely to have a more lengthy PAWS.

 

PAWS symptoms tend to fluctuate in waves and mutate. They might travel from one region of the body to another. You may have short windows when you feel better. Over time, the waves get shorter and less severe while windows get longer, but this probably will be very slow and gradual over many months.

I am trying to gauge how I am doing. TBH, if it weren't for the sleep issues and the accompanying bad day, I would feel like I am starting to improve...could the sleep issues be things getting bad again?

 

Thx for all your help!

 

I am going to try to sleep on my own tonight. I have been doing guided meditation. It helps but drives my husband crazy  if I cant sleep again, I will try melatonin tomorrow as you said. I had tried it before and it kept me up but I went straight to 2 pills which now I know are too much.

[Altostrata]

You're the only person who can tell if, on the average, you've improved over the last 16 days. You may have bumps, such as sleepless nights, here and there.

 

You may wish to stop drinking coffee, which is known to cause sleeplessness hours later. If you work late on the computer, you may be causing sleep disruption. You may wish to change your computer schedule to see if this improves your sleep. Otherwise, read the topics listed in 

 

 

If you are improving, you may wish to manage your symptoms and let them fade naturally, rather than try a drug.

 

The distinction between acute withdrawal syndrome and PAWS is arbitrary. If you have withdrawal symptoms for a long time, you have PAWS.

[Lzieb]

@@Altostrata, is the paws phase as bad as the acute phase? As strong? What is the difference between them

[Altostrata]

There is no definite difference between acute withdrawal and PAWS.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, oh. I had figured things got easier perhaps. Or not compounded as they are right now (multiple symptoms at once). So the difference is the windows get bigger then? Over time? And symptoms eventually diminish or go away

[Altostrata]

We have many people here with PAWS. Please read other Intro topics to get an idea of the range of symptoms. PAWS can be disabling.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, I'll read people who only have one or two lingering symptoms... I'm so confused

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, ok. How does someone know they are cured then? Do new symptoms just start 

[Altostrata]

You'll know it when you get there.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, I did the quarter melatonin. It did the trick. Thx 

 

Is it normal to get new symptoms during the acute phase (you said symptoms fluctuate in waves, does that mean symptom change too)? Does that mean I'm getting worse? For example, today, I feel unsteady on my feet and a bit dizzy. That's new for me. 

[Erell]

15 minutes ago, Lzieb said:

@Altostrata, I did the quarter melatonin. It did the trick. Thx 

 

Is it normal to get new symptoms during the acute phase (you said symptoms fluctuate in waves, does that mean symptom change too)? Does that mean I'm getting worse? For example, today, I feel unsteady on my feet and a bit dizzy. That's new for me. 

 

Hello Lzieb, 

 

yes it is very common : symptoms dissapear while others appear, or symptom disappear for a while and come back one day..

This is your CNS doing his repair work.

 

Windows and waves pattern is a metaphor : healing process is all about ups and downs.

 

Take care ❤️

 

[Altostrata]

Lz, please stop worrying about acute vs post-acute withdrawal symptoms. For your situation, the distinction is meaningless. We go by how you're feeling as time goes on.

 

Waves and windows are "normal" when someone is recovering from an adverse psychotropic drug reaction.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, I know. I just am trying to see where I am. I don't want to feel like this and I am hoping I won't be here long so I try to see how I am doing in light of stuff.

 

I know I can't change things. I am trying to get to a place of acceptance. I'm not there yet. I am thankful that there is full recovery in the future. I know once I have been walking this journey long enough I'll just settle into it. But being at home in quarantine, it's forever on my mind 

 

I recognize no one can tell me for certain how long my recovery will be..that's not yours to say. I am thankful that you are so helpful and please continue to be patient with me. Everyday is a struggle...the greatest battle being my mind. Especially on days that are harder.

I know you understand. 

 

I am glad you recovered. I am hopeful but the battle is real. I am going to try to just be the best mom and wife I can be in spite of what I am going through.  I need to get my focus off of being sick...if that's even possible.

 

Today was a harder day. My days have been mild to moderate in severity with scatters of (onesies and twosies) of severity. I am hoping it stays like this..it will allow me to still manage being a mom. 

 

Anyway, thanks again.

 

 

[Altostrata]

Yes, we all understand very well how hard it is. Hang in there.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, GM, I hope you slept well last night. I hope you don't mind but I have a few questions this morning...

 

I had a pretty rough night with sleep. I was wondering if people in my circumstance, can get stable with sleep again? What do people do if melatonin doesn't work (although I clearly used it wrong after reading your post last night)? I saw you mentioned a sleep therapist, could you recommend one to me?

 

Also, what do we do when we have other medicine we need to take for other things? I am def entering perimenopause... How do I handle what is prescribed?

 

Do things like rain make everything worse? 

 

Is there any success stories that are from adverse reactions you could send my way? I see they are all grouped together and I didn't know if there was a way to search outright for them. Thanks 

[Altostrata]

Lz, you're not going to find success stories or Introductions topics that are identical to your situation. What you want to know is, "How is Lzieb's story going to turn out?" Nobody can answer that.

 

Yes, people get stable with sleep again.

 

10 hours ago, Lzieb said:

Also, what do we do when we have other medicine we need to take for other things? I am def entering perimenopause... How do I handle what is prescribed?

 

It depends on the medicine.

 

10 hours ago, Lzieb said:

Do things like rain make everything worse? 

 

This is a question that makes no sense. Some people like rainy days.

[Lzieb]

@Altostrata, I actually wasn't looking for success stories for that reason. I read several people say that reading them  helped them so I was wondering if there were any particular to adverse reactions.

 

About the perimenopause thing. How would I figure that out? Is there a doctor you could recommend that I could work with that would be mindful of what has happened to me?