Auroragirl: my intro

[Auroragirl]

8:00pm - took 5mg Prozac
9:00pm - took melatonin and valerian
10:45 - fell asleep
12:00am - woke up
2:00am - akathisia (1/10) tossing and turning, anxiety, tingling and itching skin 
4:00am - fell asleep
4:00am-8:00am - broken sleep
8:00am- woke up, akathisia (1/10)
8:30am- took 7.5mg Adderall XR 
9:00am - no akathisia 
6:00pm - took 7.5mg Adderall XR
Once again, laid in bed all day. I have had 0 motivation to do anything for 2 weeks. 
 

[Erell]

5 hours ago, Auroragirl said:

Once again, laid in bed all day. I have had 0 motivation to do anything for 2 weeks. 

Aurora, I know too well how much any activity can sound overwhelming. However, I have noticed than whenever I try I feel slightly better : either because it helps distract a bit (even a bit is huge in a day), or because I feel proud of myself for trying.

What works best for me is going on walks outside : can you try to take a walk outside ?

Sometimes, even just sit down outside and feeling the fresh air on my face can provides some comfort.

Could you think of a small activity that you could try to do during the day ?

Even if it is only for a few minutes, small steps are big

 

5 hours ago, Auroragirl said:

2:00am - akathisia (1/10) 
9:00am - no akathisia 

 

It seems that your feelings of akathisia are lower, do you agree ?

[Auroragirl]

@Erell

I know I need to push myself harder. I was going for walks, doing yoga, and doing some activities out of the house for a while. Now I've completely lost all my will to try. I feel like I'm in self destruct mode.

 

I think previously I was able to do these things because I still had hope that I could return to "medicated normal" with my reinstatement. Now I've realized that isn't likely to happen, and I'm stuck in this hell for the long haul. I'm so sad, I can't pull myself out of it. I have read the pages about acceptance here but it hasn't made me feel any better. I do still work 3 days a week so it's good I'm being forced to get up some times. 

 

I do think splitting my Adderall doses help reduce overnight akathisia. It's so strange I am able to take it at night and still sleep. Even though I took it daily for years and had a tolerance, Adderall used to give me energy, motivation, and a positive mood. I was also drinking alcohol before I knew I was in WD, and it didn't make me happy either. It's like my dopamine receptors are in a coma, which would explain my severe anhedonia.

 

I'm wondering how common this is for people in withdrawal to not even be able to feel pleasure from drugs. It makes me feel like my case is more hopeless, since something is so clearly physically wrong with my brain. 

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Auroragirl said:

It makes me feel like my case is more hopeless, since something is so clearly physically wrong with my brain. 

 

Please take a good look at your drug changes since the beginning of June this year (this from your signature):

 

Early June 2020 - reinstated 5mg Prozac

 

increased to 20mg,

 

decreased to 5mg.

 

Increased Adderall XR to daily usage of 15mg

 

Mid June 2020 - increased to 10mg Prozac

 

August 13, 2020 - decreased to 5mg Prozac

 

You have made a lot of changes in just under 3 months.  Every time you have made a change your brain tries to adjust.  And then boom you made another change and it has had to adjust again, and again and again.

 

Consistent drug taking at consistent doses PLUS time will allow your brain to do what it needs to do.  It will not be linear, it will happen in a windows and waves pattern while your brain sorts all of this out.  You might feel a little bit of improvement with one thing for a little while and then it might get worse, and something else gets a bit better, or something new might pop up.

 

I may have already mentioned this.  Keeping a log of your symptoms and rating them can help you see progress that you might not feel.  It helps to be more objective rather than subjective.  That is, looking at facts rather than feelings.  When we feel awful we don't always notice that one thing may have improved a tiny bit, we just feel awful.

 

There are some images in this video which I think are such an excellent representation of what is going on.  Especially the Rubik's cube.  Have you ever done a Rubik's cube?  I've worked along with a video to solve it and just before it "all falls into place" it seems like you are going to mess the whole thing up but then all of a sudden with a few moves it's solved.

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

8 hours ago, Auroragirl said:

I know I need to push myself harder. I was going for walks, doing yoga, and doing some activities out of the house for a while.

 

It's not that you have to "push" yourself harder.  Think of it more as part of the healing process.  Perhaps writing a list of things you could do as a reminder.  I know it can be hard.  I have been through it myself, and still have times when it is a struggle.  Changing the way you think about it might help.  Think of it as being sick and taking medicine.  You don't like taking the medicine but you know it will help you to get better.  If you had an injury you would need to do physiotherapy exercises as part of the recovery.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

Consistent drug taking at consistent doses PLUS time will allow your brain to do what it needs to do. 

 

By PLUS time I mean holding on your current drugs and doses to allow your brain to sort things out.

 

Taking your drug at a consistent time is also important.

[Auroragirl]

8/23
8:00am - woke up, took 7.5mg Adderall XR

10:00am - 3:00pm - work, felt very disconnected, zoning out a lot. Manager asked me if I'm ok. 
6:00pm - took 7.5mg Adderall XR 
8:00pm - took 5mg Prozac
12:00am - took melatonin and Valerian
Couldn't sleep at all, tossing and turning all night. Skin crawling, itching, anxiety
4:00am - feeling of dread and doom overcame me, cried, grunted, screamed. Like mental akathisia without the compulsion to pace back and forth. 
6:00am - fell asleep for 2 hours

[manymoretodays]

Hi Auroragirl,

I do see improvement in your akathisia, which you described so nicely in this post:  https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/23004-auroragirl-my-intro/?do=findComment&comment=497280

 

And I see consistency with your 8 pm Prozac, dosage of 5 mg.

 

You are just getting to some around the clock stability with your Prozac now, a little more than a week since you settled into the 5 mg dose.  Which might be helping a lot with the Prozac withdrawal.  It's still kind of hard to tell what is what definitively, but you ARE headed in the right direction.

 

Did you get a chance to go to Drug Interaction Report- Drugs.com

As you can see, Prozac and Adderall are really not a great combination at all.  Major interactions.

I think that the earlier you can get the second dose in, of Adderall, the better. 

We often see, that keeping medications with interactions like yours, spaced apart by at least 2 hours helps.

 

6 hours ago, Auroragirl said:

10:00am - 3:00pm - work, felt very disconnected, zoning out a lot. Manager asked me if I'm ok.

This doesn't sound like serotonin syndrome anyway, so that's good.   

And you did it!  Worked!  Your sleep hasn't quite optimized and.......

Your poor nervous system has been through so darn much just lately, I think when you do get days off, that it is probably screaming for rest and inactivity.  I think that will get better too, in time, and as you commit to not trying to find anymore quick solutions.......e.g. Phenibut, marijuana gummies, alcohol, caffiene, etc.  As will the "zoning out".  If I were you, I think I might go to using the magnesium.  I saw that on one of your days notes.

 

My best guess is that you will do better, much better with less Adderall over time.  You may not get to any of the "medicated normal" you recall,  but to a much more tolerable place where you can begin to use non-drug coping skills, as much as possible, keep going with work, and begin to get some kind of "new normal" life back.

 

What kind of doctor do you see for prescriptions?  And when is your next appointment?

 

How are you splitting your 15 mg capsule of Adderall XR now?  Practically speaking.  Are you going to be able to get a new prescription anytime soon, so that you might be able to go to 5 mg Adderall XR or even to an immediate release type.  Read carefully Alto's suggests above and get real familiar with the Tips for Tapering off Adderall link

 

Your efforts with the daily notes are good Auroragirl.  Try to keep them coming daily, with the date at the top, starting with the morning and including the night, all in one post.  Do include the doses of your supplements as well.  I see melatonin and Valerian, without doses noted in the last one.

 

You may not need a whooping 3 mg dose of melatonin.  And how long have you been taking Valerian?

Pre-existing topics on those two:

Melatonin for sleep

Valerian root

 

Hoping tonight is a easier one for you.

((((((Auroragirl))))))

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

[Auroragirl]

On 8/24/2020 at 2:10 PM, manymoretodays said:

Did you get a chance to go to Drug Interaction Report- Drugs.com

As you can see, Prozac and Adderall are really not a great combination at all.  Major interactions.

I think that the earlier you can get the second dose in, of Adderall, the better. 

We often see, that keeping medications with interactions like yours, spaced apart by at least 2 hours helps.

Yes I looked it up. Alto said to take the Adderall doses 12 hours apart. So I will have to move my Prozac to a different time. Prozac has such a long half life which leads me to believe timing wouldn't affect much anyways but I will try it. 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 2:10 PM, manymoretodays said:

  I think that will get better too, in time, and as you commit to not trying to find anymore quick solutions.......e.g. Phenibut, marijuana gummies, alcohol, caffiene, etc.  As will the "zoning out".  If I were you, I think I might go to using the magnesium.  I saw that on one of your days notes.

It's not that I'm looking for a quick fix. The akathisia is so severe that taking something to stop it feels like my only option. It is truly unbearable. It's not something I can just take deep breaths and tell myself "this will pass" 

 

(I made a mistake with this quoting thing and IDK how to get rid of this) anyways to continue, I've already had the cops called on me because I was screaming so loud and on another occasion I kicked a hole in my wall. Of course I could try my best not to scream but the horrific symptoms would still be there. In any case my akathisia hasn't been so bad lately so I haven't been using other substances to stop it. 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 2:10 PM, manymoretodays said:

What kind of doctor do you see for prescriptions?  And when is your next appointment?

 

How are you splitting your 15 mg capsule of Adderall XR now?  Practically speaking.  Are you going to be able to get a new prescription anytime soon, so that you might be able to go to 5 mg Adderall XR or even to an immediate release type

I see a psychiatrist. My next appt is on Sept 9. I've been dividing the doses in 2 by emptying out the beads and using my scale. I also get prescribed 10mg Adderall immediate release but I just don't take it so I have a lifetime supply stockpiled. I could use a pill cutter to make 5mg doses. I could also ask my doctor for 5mg XR 3 times a day but I'm already going to ask her to switch me to Prozac liquid and tell her I've been taking just 5mg a day. She thinks I'm taking the 20mg of Prozac she originally prescribed. I'm going to tell her I'm having protracted withdrawal so of course she is going to think I'm crazy. The more things I bring up the more she will be offended and resistant to work with me and listen to me. She is already the 3rd psychiatrist I've seen since this all started and I don't want to bother switching anymore. I can't imagine finding one who actually understands this and believes me. Splitting my 15mg in 2 seems to be working for me so I'd rather just leave it alone until maybe a future visit with her. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by manymoretodays
got rid of empty quote

[manymoretodays]

Hi Auroragirl,  And I am glad you posted again.

 

I got rid of the empty quote.

2 hours ago, Auroragirl said:

Yes I looked it up. Alto said to take the Adderall doses 12 hours apart. So I will have to move my Prozac to a different time. Prozac has such a long half life which leads me to believe timing wouldn't affect much anyways but I will try it. 

Alto gave you a couple options.  The above was referring to the AdderallXR, and splitting the 15 mg dose.  And based on your previous notes, I don't see any more recent ones, you have already been spacing the Prosac out 2 hours from the last Adderall dose.  So that is awesome beginners luck!  We might as well err on the side of caution now, as any serotonin syndrome stuff, would be tough to clarify from your akathisia.  And that is just dandy and great and fine that the split dosing of Adderall has removed most of it.

2 hours ago, Auroragirl said:

It's not that I'm looking for a quick fix. The akathisia is so severe that taking something to stop it feels like my only option. It is truly unbearable. It's not something I can just take deep breaths and tell myself "this will pass" 

 

(I made a mistake with this quoting thing and IDK how to get rid of this) anyways to continue, I've already had the cops called on me because I was screaming so loud and on another occasion I kicked a hole in my wall. Of course I could try my best not to scream but the horrific symptoms would still be there. In any case my akathisia hasn't been so bad lately so I haven't been using other substances to stop it. 

I know, I know......I am by no means trying to belittle you or your symptoms.  I think the success with the split dosing of Adderall has been wonderful.  As has the consistent time and dose of Prozac.  This is going to be a long haul for you.......and we are just seeking stabilization for you now. 

 

Previously there was this, below as a possiblity, with your Adderall dosing:

  

On 8/19/2020 at 2:02 PM, Altostrata said:

I think you have guessed correctly. My guess is the morning symptoms are withdrawal symptoms from the Adderall you took the prior day.

 

Since you're taking 15mg Adderall XR, I would ask for your prescription to be filled with 3 5mg capsules, to be taken in split doses (morning, mid-day, and night). The split doses should reduce the withdrawal symptoms you get overnight. Then I would taper from the noon 5mg capsule by counting beads. See

 

After you have eliminated the mid-day 5mg capsule (you'd be down to 10mg per day), you could start taking beads out of both morning and night capsules until you're off Adderall.

 

You need to stop all alcohol, it's probably upsetting your nervous system even more.

 

So, when taking the whole dose of AdderallXR just once a day, it seems that you ran into some severe interdose withdrawal.  I think if any tapering occurs soon, probably it would be just be in lowering your Adderall.  Now or in a few months time.  None of this will be quick and I know you really need some stability now. 

Staying put with the Prozac 5 mg sounds good for now.

 

How are you doing the Prozac now?  Are you doing 1/2 of a 10 mg tablet?  Did you know you can make your own liquid?

Tips for tapering off Prozac(fluoxetine)

 

How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

And okay, that's good.....you can just tell this new psychiatrist that 5 mg Prozac is working really well for you.

Good on the extra Adderall immediate release too. 

If I were you, I don't even know if I'd bring up tapering right now.  Just get what you need.  I had a hard time working with a shrink in the end of my medication career.  She just told me I could CT.......no clue.  And it just wasn't worth my energy anymore to do any convincing or teaching of my newfound knowledge around WD and tapering.

It's up to to you.

 

We are here to understand you.  We do......get it.

 

Best AG, glad you posted.  I was going to give you a prompt to do so, if you had not this week. 

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited September 1, 2020 by manymoretodays
additional

[Altostrata]

Hello, Auroragirl, has your sleep pattern changed since modifying your drug schedule? When did it change?

[Auroragirl]

On 9/1/2020 at 3:06 PM, Altostrata said:

Hello, Auroragirl, has your sleep pattern changed since modifying your drug schedule? When did it change?

No it hasn't changed. I still go to bed between 10pm and 12am depending on if I work that day. Sometimes I fall asleep in an hour, sometimes it takes me a few hours. I always wake up multiple times a night but I haven't had bad akathisia when I wake up now. Just itchy skin or tingling feelings. I'd say my sleep averages between 1 and 5 hours a night all together. 

[Auroragirl]

On 9/1/2020 at 1:55 PM, manymoretodays said:

How are you doing the Prozac now?  Are you doing 1/2 of a 10 mg tablet?  Did you know you can make your own liquid

I am actually prescribed 20mg capsules. I make my own 5mg pills with empty capsules and a scale. I have read about making the liquid. I'm going to ask my doctor to prescribe me the liquid. Not telling her about tapering but just because Prozac doesn't come in 5mg so liquid is the only way to take that amount. 

[Altostrata]

If your sleep hasn't changed with the reduction of Prozac to 5mg, it could very well be that the Adderall is keeping you awake.

 

First, you might get your Prozac dosing more consistent by using the liquid rather than homemade capsules. You can make the switch by taking 5mg liquid one day and a 5mg capsule the next day for a week, then take the liquid each day. Be sure to keep daily notes while you do this.

 

After that, f I were you, I'd start reducing Adderall starting with 10% off both morning and evening doses. This is an overall reduction of 10% of the daily dose.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[Auroragirl]

@Altostrata

 

Ok

[Altostrata]

Please do me a favor,  no need to tag me unless it's important. Thanks 🙂

[Auroragirl]

I read a list of doctors who are knowledgeable about withdrawal on here once and now I can't seem to find it anywhere. Can someone please send me the link? 

[Erell]

 

To find something on SA I use Google : I type 'survivingantidepressants' and a word related to my research (here I used the word 'doctors')

[Auroragirl]

7 minutes ago, Erell said:

 

To find something on SA I use Google : I type 'survivingantidepressants' and a word related to my research (here I used the word 'doctors')

That's a great idea thanks!

[ChessieCat]

8 hours ago, Erell said:

I type 'survivingantidepressants' and a word related to my research

 

Sometimes I find that I need to add site: survivingantidepressants.org

[manymoretodays]

How are you doing Auroragirl?

Update when you can.  Thank you.

[Auroragirl]

9 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

How are you doing Auroragirl?

Update when you can.  Thank you.

I'm doing better. I've cut my Adderall down to 10mg daily divided in 2 doses and I'm sleeping about 4 hours a night. No akathisia. 

[manymoretodays]

I am so glad to hear that, on the no akathisia!  Makes my heart sing!

 

4 hours sleep not so great though and really tough right now I'm sure.  Work with that 2nd 5 mg dose of Adderall too, so that you aren't taking it too late to interfere with sleep nor too early that it causes the akathisia.  And stay put with your present doses now of both Prozac and Adderall for a good 3-6 months before any more tapering.  Or that's what I'd do.

 

I'll pop in the link(s) to non drug sleep helps(there are topics on melatonin indexed and other non-prescription helps)

Tips to help sleep: so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

some good links to sleep topics in the first post ^ and then pages of discussion around insomnia, I'll bet you'll find something that might help

 

((((((Auroragirl)))))) and thank you......so much for updating.  Please keep popping in with updates and feel free to comment and support on others threads and/or topics too.  That can really help. 

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Auroragirl]

Just wanted to give an update. I have been taking 0mg of Adderall since Oct 1st and feel I have stabilized on 5mg of liquid Prozac. I have no withdrawal symptoms except for mild anhedonia and trouble sleeping. Before quitting Prozac I could easily sleep 10 hours a night and even take a nap during the day if I wanted. Now I only sleep 6 hours but it's much improved from the 1-3 hours I was getting while in severe WD.

 

I thought I may be doomed since I was completely off Prozac for 8 months before reinstating. It took me months to feel better but I am so glad to report it finally worked. 

 

I plan to begin a 10% per month taper starting November 1st.

[ChessieCat]

21 minutes ago, Auroragirl said:

I thought I may be doomed since I was completely off Prozac for 8 months before reinstating. It took me months to feel better but I am so glad to report it finally worked. 

 

I plan to begin a 10% per month taper starting November 1st.

 

I think it would be a good idea to wait for until at least until the beginning of January 2021 before you start to taper Prozac and give your nervous system a chance to recover more fully from going off Adderall.

 

And when you do make your first reduction I would suggest make a small test reduction to see how it goes, perhaps 1% decrease but no more than 2.5%.  Because of the long half life of Prozac it would probably be better to wait for at least 3 weeks to see how the decrease has affected you.  If things go okay then you can make a larger reduction for the next decrease.

 

Please note that it is better to start from a place of stability before commencing a taper, especially because of the long half life of Prozac.  If you start reducing too soon and continued to taper it could take several months before you realise that you have tapered too early.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Auroragirl,

Oh my gosh.......yes, please HOLD a bit longer.  At least 3 months.  With the Prozac.

You just did a wild rush job off your adderall.

There is no prize for quick tapers, in fact it is more often a sure fire way to put yourself into some further neuro-dysregulation.  Your body and mind needs time to repair.  Oh, please begin to listen.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

[Auroragirl]

Ok I will hold longer on Prozac. I was feeling much better the less Adderall I took which is why I tapered fast. I didn't want to prolong the akathisia and insomnia it was causing me. 

[manymoretodays]

So far, how are you doing with focus and concentration?

 

Auroragirl, it's just that we often get these great honeymoon/almost hypomanic periods after coming off a drug.  And they don't often last. 

I mean I did the same thing with adderall, but went from 2.5 mg to zero, after about 6 months only of usage. 

You may get hit with some tougher times ahead.  That's all I'm saying.  A taper would have been a better plan for you and I. 

I got rid of my adderall, I mean literally, had someone destroy it for me, after a couple of months off it. 

There are better non-drug ways to work on focus and concentration.  Seek those out.

 

Let the Prozac taper wait.  I think that would be best.

 

[Auroragirl]

Hi, it’s been quite a while since I last posted. Almost 3 years. 
 

 

I reinstated Prozac at 5mg. Over the past 2.5 years I have tapered down using the 10% per month method. For the past month I have been taking 0.1mg of Prozac every other day.
 

This is 1 drop of the oral suspension. The full syringe is equal to 4mg, and there are 40 markings on it. I fill it to the first marking and it can’t go any lower than this with pushing it all out. I know every other day dosing isn’t usually recommended but I wanted to get to a lower dose, and with Prozac’s long half-life I am hoping that it is acceptable to do. I don’t plan to go any lower than this before stopping all together.
 

Unfortunately, I did start taking 50mg Trazodone when I reinstated 5mg of Prozac because I absolutely could not sleep for more than an hour or 2. I know it’s recommended to taper off the activating drug first and then the sedating one after. I was wondering if it might be wise to hold at my current dose of Prozac, and taper off the Trazodone completely first before giving up the last drop of Prozac. My reasoning behind this is because of Prozac’s long half-life. 
 

As far as lingering symptoms go, there are quite a few. I still struggle with anhedonia and brain fog the most. I zone out, have trouble thinking clearly and find it hard to make even simple decisions. This has always been an issue for me but it’s worse since the withdrawal.

 

I have emotional blunting. I don’t feel as happy as I feel I should in certain situations. I don’t laugh at jokes or movies as easily. I often feel like I’m faking my reactions to people because that is how I’m supposed to feel. I did not notice any emotional blunting prior to taking SSRIs or during my treatment. Maybe it was mild during treatment but I didn’t even notice it.

 

I’m still sensitive to sound/light but not as bad as before I reinstated.
 

I feel some irritability, and a physical sense agitation about half of my evenings. It’s severe enough to affect my life because I find it difficult to function and often just go to sleep early to make it stop. However, it isn’t anywhere close to unbearable akathisia I had before. I can live with it. 
 

I still have very bad PSSD. I have mild libido here and there, whereas I did not before I reinstated, but I have severe genital anesthesia. 
 

My main reason for posting was to ask whether or not it might be wise to discontinue trazodone before stopping that last drop of Prozac, because the Prozac will taper itself out more gradually at the end. 
 

Thank you