Shelton: withdrawal from short term amitriptyline and nortriptyline use, Celexa previously

[Altostrata]

You'll want magnesium citrate or magnesium glycinate.

 

Please read these links, there are good reasons we give you pointers.

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

[Shelton]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

It contains calcium.  Calcium cancels out the calming effect of magnesium.  Calcium and magnesium are better taken 2 hours apart.

 

Also be aware that some magnesium tablets/capsules contain B vitamins (which can be activating, especially B6).

 

Magnesium

Thank you so much! I ordered the Doctor’s Best one from the link you showed. Hoping it calms down the anxiety so I don’t have to take .25mg ativan when it gets bad!

 

@Altostrata @ChessieCat , did you find magnesium helped you tolerate the anxiety better during withdrawal? The physical symptoms are brutal but the anxiety/restlessness comes in waves that are unbearable! Especially at night. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Shelton
Added question

[Altostrata]

I found magnesium to be very helpful, as I think I explained in the magnesium topic. Same with the fish oil. But everybody's different, start with a very small amount of one at a time.

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, Shelton said:

did you find magnesium helped you tolerate the anxiety better during withdrawal?

 

Yes I have found taking magnesium helpful.  There have been several times that I have run out and each time my anxiety increased and each time a resumed taking it the anxiety eased.  There have been a few times when I've felt a little bit more anxious and I've taken an extra 1/2 dose.

[Shelton]

6 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Yes I have found taking magnesium helpful.  There have been several times that I have run out and each time my anxiety increased and each time a resumed taking it the anxiety eased.  There have been a few times when I've felt a little bit more anxious and I've taken an extra 1/2 dose.

How often do you take it and how much? Do you wait until you’re anxious or try to take it as a preventative?

[Shelton]

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

I found magnesium to be very helpful, as I think I explained in the magnesium topic. Same with the fish oil. But everybody's different, start with a very small amount of one at a time.

 

How often did you take it? Or did you wait until you were anxious to take it?

 

I will start at 25mg like you explained in the magnesium topic! Just not sure if I take it daily or just as needed?

[Altostrata]

You need to read these, your questions are answered:

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

[Shelton]

5 hours ago, Altostrata said:

You need to read these, your questions are answered:

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

Thank you!!!! I took 1.25mg this morning and seemed to handle it well. I have internal agitation and anxiety a lot today - flu like symptoms seemed to have gotten better. How do I tell if the internal agitation/anxiety is an adverse reaction or if it’s withdrawal normal? Just stick it out and see?

[Shelton]

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

Thank you!!!! I took 1.25mg this morning and seemed to handle it well. I have internal agitation and anxiety a lot today - flu like symptoms seemed to have gotten better. How do I tell if the internal agitation/anxiety is an adverse reaction or if it’s withdrawal normal? Just stick it out and see?

Also side note, on the 30mg of Celexa - I did great for like 3 weeks and randomly started having the adverse reaction of increased anxiety/agitation/panic. Doc told me it was hormonal - I dealt with it for 2 weeks until it came to a head with full blown body shakes and pacing the floors. 
 

So I’m having a hard time deciphering between these symptoms being an adverse reaction to the Lexapro reinstatement or if it’s just withdrawal symptoms that are random!

 

Any insight on this? 

[Altostrata]

When do these symptoms occur? How do you feel before and after you take 1.25mg Lexapro? What time of day do you take it? How are you measuring it?

[Shelton]

54 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

When do these symptoms occur? How do you feel before and after you take 1.25mg Lexapro? What time of day do you take it? How are you measuring it?

Measuring by cutting 5mg pill into fourths and weighing.

 

Time of day - around 10:00am

 

Example - today, woke up with severe “cortisol spike” anxiety and nausea - immediately had to take 1/2 ativan to function. I still had that leftover anxiety but it calmed a bit. I took Lexapro at 10:00am. After taking Lexapro, nausea calmed down. Felt about the same anxiety-wise. 
 

Around 3-4pm - heightened anxiety/shivers and anxiety that felt like the “cortisol spike” anxiety that I have in the middle of the night and mornings.

 

5:30, couldn’t take it anymore so had to take another 1/2 ativan! 
 

I am hoping the magnesium I ordered (coming tomorrow) will help.

 

Based off of this, do you think it’s withdrawals or the Lexapro reinstatement?  So hard to tell when my nervous system is so out of whack. 

[Altostrata]

34 minutes ago, Shelton said:

After taking Lexapro, nausea calmed down. Felt about the same anxiety-wise. 

 

The 1.25mg is addressing your withdrawal symptoms. You've been taking this amount for exactly ONE DAY. You need to take the same amount at the same time every day. It takes at least 4 days for Lexapro to get to steady-state in your bloodstream.

 

In addition, you have to let your nervous system settle down from your previous drug experiments. You may need to cope with waves and windows for months. You need to calm yourself down and be patient. Read these topics:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Sudden fear, terror, panic, or anxiety from withdrawal

 

It's best that you take Ativan as infrequently as possible, as it can cause much worse problems. You can also become physiologically dependent on it and have to taper that, too.

[Shelton]

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

In addition, you have to let your nervous system settle down from your previous drug experiments. You may need to cope with waves and windows for months. You need to calm yourself down and be patient. Read these topics

Thank you so much! I have been reading those topics in depth! I have been staying calm and patient but the cortisol anxiety is the most bothersome at this point. It is unbearable - I woke up last night at 1:30am, 3:30am, 4:30am and 5:30am. When reading about this, it’s only spoken about at nighttime but I have it numerous times throughout the day sometimes lasting hours upon hours - is this normal?

 

It is truly unbearable for me at this point. I can stay calm, meditate, etc. but the only thing that even remotely touches it is right now is .25mg ativan and I HATE that.

 

I have a 4 month old baby so I don’t have the option of resting and meditating throughout the day. I have stayed calm because I do not want my anxiety to ramp it up but the “chemical/cortisol anxiety” that I’m constantly having is unbearable. It’s constant and like nothing I’ve ever felt before. 

[Shelton]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

The 1.25mg is addressing your withdrawal symptoms. You've been taking this amount for exactly ONE DAY. You need to take the same amount at the same time every day. It takes at least 4 days for Lexapro to get to steady-state in your bloodstream.

 

In addition, you have to let your nervous system settle down from your previous drug experiments. You may need to cope with waves and windows for months. You need to calm yourself down and be patient. Read these topics:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Neuro-emotions

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Easing your way into meditation for a stressed-out nervous system

 

Music for self-care: calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

Ways to cope with daily anxiety

 

Sudden fear, terror, panic, or anxiety from withdrawal

 

It's best that you take Ativan as infrequently as possible, as it can cause much worse problems. You can also become physiologically dependent on it and have to taper that, too.

Altostrata,

 

I’m beginning to wonder if the Lexapro dose is too high or if it’s making it worse. 
Before I started Lexapro, I was having waves of bad but I also had windows each day and insomnia wasn’t this bad. Since reinstating Lexapro, I feel like the extreme anxiety/internal agitation is 24/7 and unbearable!

 

Recap:

Thursday - 2.5mg - too much

Friday - No Lexapro - was irritable but not like this - towards the night, had severe anxiety and panic attack (hadn’t happened since w/d started - anxiety like I’ve never felt before)

Saturday - 2.5mg (advice of doc - muscle pains/stiffness - wave of panic) note - had a window of about 4-5 hours where I felt great before symptoms hit bad

Sunday - 1.25mg - flu like symptoms, body aches, severe agitation/anxiety
Monday - .25mg - more flu like symptoms but not as bad of “cortisol anxiety” - Monday throughout night had anxiety/insomnia and restlessness and woke up with severe cortisol spike anxiety 

Tuesday - 1.25mg - severe anxiety/internal agitation/shivers/nausea - very bad last night with several wake ups

Wednesday (Today) 1.25mg - same severe anxiety/internal agitation/shivers/nausea/SO tense - neck soreness, brain feels like it’s heavy/on fire and jaw clenching. 

 

Since I had some waves prior to reinstating Lexapro Thursday and I’m not having any good moments right now, did I make a mistake reinstating or do you just think this is part of the windows and waves pattern?

 

I guess I’m just scared this is an adverse reaction and not just withdrawals/adjustment to Lexapro. If you were me, would you stick it out with 1.25mg Lexapro to see how it goes and see if this severe cortisol anxiety goes away? If so, how long? 

[Shelton]

@Altostrata, also - nausea wasn’t near this bad prior to reinstatement of 1.25mg. I was able to force myself to eat but now I can barely eat. 

[manymoretodays]

Oh Shelton,

First off.  Now, I see Ativan .25 mg as needed for anxiety since May 2020.

This I see in your signature.  The portion below your posts.

I for one, had thought you had just started using this, sparingly.

Unfortunately, it only takes 2 weeks for a dependency on a benzo to develop. 

Can you guess, estimate at all, if you have been on it, even off and on for 2 weeks, since May?

Give that your best try.

 

Then what happened with getting a liquid preparation of either Celexa or Lexapro?  Or making your own and getting syringes, finding a suitable container for mixing and storing, etc.? 

 

How did a reinstatement of 0.25 mg of Lexapro(escitalopram) or the other option/suggestion was to reinstate 0.50 mg of Celexa(citalopram) turn into a reinstatement of 1.25 mg of Lexapro?  For now, I think I would stay with that for at least another day or two, or up to a week, so we can see IF there are any consistent patterns. 

We can't really see much from just one day of notes. 

 

When did a scale turn up?  Are you familiar with the scales?  And how to use them?

Using a digital scale to measure doses

Would you like to go over using your scale?  What kind is it?  Does it measure out to 3 places beyond the decimal point?

What did a whole tablet of Lexapro 5 mg weigh?  That's a good starting point.  Weigh out 2 more tablets separately.  Then add the 3 numbers and divide by 3. 

 

There's more about making a liquid of your own, in each of the topics on tapering:  Lexapro(escitalopram) and Celexa(citalopram)

And then:  How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules and Using an oral syringe

 

 

And notes.....so far......really unclear.   And just one day.  I went ahead and put some lavender prompts in there, for when you try another day of notes.  We really want to see the relation of your symptoms to your drugs.......which involves getting a whole day in at a time and noting times even when it's not a drug time, just noting how things go throughout the day.

I can assure you, that at this point in time, there isn't much that will take away all your symptoms, all at once.  And I know sometimes, it feels horrid..........just try your best to be consistent.  And eat.  Move through the basics of daily functioning, even when you don't think you can. 

 

 

20 hours ago, Shelton said:

Measuring by cutting 5mg pill into fourths and weighing.

 

Time of day - around 10:00am  What day is this?

 

Note the time:  then you woke up, the symptoms you were having, that you took ativan and the dose(not 1/2)

Example - today, woke up with severe “cortisol spike” anxiety and nausea - immediately had to take 1/2 ativan to function.

 

Note the time: I still had that leftover anxiety but it calmed a bit.

 

20 hours ago, Shelton said:

10:00 am  Lexapro, dose

I took Lexapro at 10:00am.

 

Note the time: After taking Lexapro, nausea calmed down. Felt about the same anxiety-wise. (note the time your nausea felt better)

 

20 hours ago, Shelton said:

Note times again:   times after 10 am and up until 3-4 pm, just note the time, and if you ate, took a shower, were unable to do anything but lay in bed, etc.

 

20 hours ago, Shelton said:

 

5:30, couldn’t take it anymore so had to take another 1/2 ativan! (dose again, not 1/2 ativan)
More times:  then we can see how the ativan worked, how your sleep was, etc.

 

20 hours ago, Shelton said:

I am hoping the magnesium I ordered (coming tomorrow) will help.

 

Based off of this, do you think it’s withdrawals or the Lexapro reinstatement?  So hard to tell when my nervous system is so out of whack. 

 

 

It does look like the Ativan 1/2 tablet or .25 mg, taken twice a day helps, at least one day it did.  I don't know how that night went and then how you did the next morning. 

Can't really tell much at all......yet.

I think that you have managed to take approximately a 1.25 mg dose of Lexapro since the 6th now, so today is only day 4.  Which makes it very hard to tell if the nausea is related to this reinstatement or just to WD. 

 

For right now, try to get today into notes.  Post today tomorrow.  Stay put with at least 1 mg of Lexapro, the dose, not always the same as the weight.......

 

Go back if you need to, to review.....all of the posts so far.

 

I hope that helps.  If even a little bit.

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

You may recall discussion of getting a liquid so you could more exactly measure your dose. You may recall a suggestion you reinstate at dosages lower than 1.25mg and the other dosages you've tried.

 

On 9/6/2020 at 11:45 AM, Altostrata said:

....

If I were you, I would stop experimenting with escitalopram, it's related to but much stronger than citalopram -- another essential fact your doctor doesn't know. I would get the liquid form of Celexa and try a reinstatement of 0.5mg citalopram. Let us know how you're doing.

 

On 9/6/2020 at 12:12 PM, Altostrata said:

 

....

The 1.25mg Lexapro you took today, roughly equivalent to 3.75mg-5mg Celexa, added to whatever was left in your system from the prior 2 days. It's too high a dose of the drug. This should wear off over the next few days -- you should be feeling a little better each day (but don't expect to get back to normal soon, that may take months).

 

If I were you, I'd plan on taking 0.25mg Lexapro at the same time each day. This may be enough for the withdrawal symptoms you developed when you cold-turkeyed Celexa in July. This change probably will take a week to settle in. Please let us know how you're doing.

....

 

We see thousands of people here who have gone off their drugs and need to consider reinstatement. We advise these very low doses for a good reason, which is what you are experiencing: A little goes a long way in nervous systems sensitized by withdrawal.

 

Your method of cutting up tablets is not working. We can't fix that for you.

 

What progress have you made in getting liquid Celexa from your prescriber? If you can't get that, what progress have you made in getting Lexapro liquid? If you can't get either, what progress have you made in acquiring a container for measuring water and an oral syringe in order to make your own liquid from tablets?

 

If we knew of any shortcuts for this, we would tell you.

[Shelton]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

for one, had thought you had just started using this, sparingly.

Unfortunately, it only takes 2 weeks for a dependency on a benzo to develop. 

Can you guess, estimate at all, if you have been on it, even off and on for 2 weeks, since May?

Give that your best try.

I have only needed it probably 3x’s a week up until starting Amitriptyline. When I started Amitriptyline, I felt terrible and needed it probably 5x’s a week. Since starting Lexapro, I’ve had to take .25mg twice a day because the severe “cortisol anxiety” I can’t stand. It’s all day long. It calms it down within the hour to where I don’t feel like I’m going to crawl out of my skin and I’m not shaking. 
 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

How did a reinstatement of 0.25 mg of Lexapro(escitalopram) or the other option/suggestion was to reinstate 0.50 mg of Celexa(citalopram) turn into a reinstatement of 1.25 mg of Lexapro?  For now, I think I would stay with that for at least another day or two, or up to a week, so we can see IF there are any consistent patterns. 

We can't really see much from just one day of notes.

My doctor would not answer - I can’t see her until tomorrow at 11am to get liquid Lexapro. I just read back and when @Altostrata said maybe I needed a higher dose, she said 1 and I thought she said 1.25mg. Omg, have I completely messed up? 

 

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

You may recall discussion of getting a liquid so you could more exactly measure your dose. You may recall a suggestion you reinstate at dosages lower than 1.25mg and the other dosages you've tried.

My lovely doctor emailed and said Celexa doesn’t come in liquid form and we’re trying Lexapro and that she would see me tomorrow at 11am. I am going to ask for liquid tomorrow - at this point, what dose should I take? I read the previous post and thought you said 1.25mg and you said 1mg. Have I completely messed up? 
 

When I get liquid Lexapro in the morning, what dose should I take? 
 

I will post my notes for today in a 2nd post as today is the worst day I’ve had so far. 

[Shelton]

Tuesday 09/08

Woke up with : severe cortisol spike/anxiety bad - so nauseous! Could barely stomach a biscuit.
 

Took .25mg ativan at 8:30am

 

9:30am - Took a shower
 

10:00am - 1.25mg Lexapro 

 

After taking Lexapro (30min-1hr):

Symptoms : improvement in nausea and severe anxiety. (Probably from ativan) Still extremely anxious and nauseous but not as bad as prior to taking.

 

3:00pm-4:00pm severe heightened anxiety/shivers, electric current feeling but also fatigued

 

5:30pm - anxiety/internal electric “current” and shakes got severe - took .25mg ativan - it took the edge off but still extremely bad anxiety And nausea

 

7:00-bedtime - body aches mostly in legs - fatigued and flu symptoms bad - anxiety constant (no true relief ever) and nausea

ALL DAY - SEVERE NAUSEA. Can’t turn my head without feeling like I’ll vomit. Can barely stomach food at all.
 

Wednesday 09/09

Woke up throughout the night with severe “cortisol anxiety” 1:30am, 5:30am - when woke up at 6:30am it was severe. It was constant - internal tremors and shakes. I can barely stand it. Got up and moved around. Shortness of breath, severe nausea!

 

10:00am - Lexapro 1.25mg - did not improve anything. 

10:45am - Started feeling even worse - Ativan .25mg for severe anxiety and internal tremors/shivers/shakes - severe nausea

 

12:23pm - anxiety shivers - severe weakness - couldn’t lift my head off of the pillow - thought I could vomit at any second

 

1:00pm - cortisol anxiety calmed a tad, bad flu feelings, diarrhea twice, severe weakness, can’t get out of bed, severe nausea

 

2:00pm - shivers - weakness, still so sick, can’t get out of bed, nausea/weakness severe

 

3:00pm-6:28pm - starting to feel like I’m poisoned. Almost went to the ER. Nausea is so severe I can’t move. Weakness and flu symptoms so bad it feels like I’m dying. Have moments of shakes/shivers.
 

Note : all I could eat today was several chicken nuggets, an orange and some crackers. 
 

Starting to think this is an adverse reaction but I don’t know how bad withdrawals are. Can they be this bad to where it feels like an emergency or is this the “serotonin syndrome” type symptoms?

 

I’m scared. Is this just because I’m taking too many mg of Lexapro? If so, where do I go from here? I want to be 100% confident on what I need when I meet with my doctor in the morning. 
 

Thank you so much!

 

@Altostrata @manymoretodays

[Altostrata]

As we observed before, 1.25mg Lexapro, which is equivalent to 3.75mg-5mg Celexa, may be too strong for you.

 

Phone your pharmacy, give them this information:

Celexa 10mg/5mL Solution

NDC: 0456-4130-08

 

Ask them if your insurance covers it and how much it costs. You may have to phone your insurance company. If you want it, phone your doctor and leave the NDC code (NDC: 0456-4130-08) on her voicemail.

 

FDA information about citalopram liquid.

 

For example at CVS: https://www.cvs.com/drug/celexa/oral-solution/10mg

Edited September 9, 2020 by Altostrata
updated link

[Shelton]

30 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

As we observed before, 1.25mg Lexapro, which is equivalent to 3.75mg-5mg Celexa, may be too strong for you.

 

Phone your pharmacy, give them this information:

Celexa 10mg/5mL Solution

NDC: 0456-4130-08

 

Ask them if your insurance covers it and how much it costs. You may have to phone your insurance company. If you want it, phone your doctor and leave the NDC code (NDC: 0456-4130-08) on her voicemail.

 

FDA information about citalopram liquid.

 

For example at CVS: https://www.cvs.com/drug/celexa/oral-solution/10mg

They have it and my insurance covers it! I will beg my dr for it tomorrow - if not, I’ll go to my PCP. 
 

So what do I do about dosage now? Next scheduled time to take it is 10am tomorrow but can’t see doctor until 11am.

 

So you definitely think this is just too much Lexapro?
 

I was literally about to go to the hospital because I’m so so physically sick. Trying to force toast down right now. 

[manymoretodays]

Oh Shelton,

 

We don't recommend going in and "begging" .  You'll see why, if you want to take a look at this link:

How to talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal? What to expect?

 

Much better, if  you can keep your calm, and tell the doctor what you would like to try.

 

Alto's given you the information needed for the doctor to call in your prescription of Celexa, with a suggest to call him with it, so he has information on it, in advance.

And then...... 

It's best to keep your dosing consistent to within the same hour, so........ if you can't take the 0.5 mg Celexa liquid, by 11 am tomorrow, just hold off until friday.

Do have the pharmacist go over measuring your dose with you.

 

And, okay.......So, Ativan now for 3 and 1/2 months........at first 3 times per week from March 20 to August 19th, and then 5 times per week?   

3 hours ago, Shelton said:

I have only needed it probably 3x’s a week up until starting Amitriptyline. When I started Amitriptyline, I felt terrible and needed it probably 5x’s a week. Since starting Lexapro, I’ve had to take .25mg twice a day because the severe “cortisol anxiety” I can’t stand. It’s all day long. It calms it down within the hour to where I don’t feel like I’m going to crawl out of my skin and I’m not shaking. 

 

What dose did you take when you took Ativan just once a day?

And we'll really have to look at this more later. 

 

Get some rest tonight.  

 

Best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shelton]

14 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Oh Shelton,

 

We don't recommend going in and "begging" .  You'll see why, if you want to take a look at this link:

How to talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal? What to expect?

 

Much better, if  you can keep your calm, and tell the doctor what you would like to try.

 

Alto's given you the information needed for the doctor to call in your prescription of Celexa, with a suggest to call him with it, so he has information on it, in advance.

And then...... 

It's best to keep your dosing consistent to within the same hour, so........ if you can't take the 0.5 mg Celexa liquid, by 11 am tomorrow, just hold off until friday.

Do have the pharmacist go over measuring your dose with you.

 

And, okay.......So, Ativan now for 3 and 1/2 months........at first 3 times per week from March 20 to August 19th, and then 5 times per week?   

 

What dose did you take when you took Ativan just once a day?

And we'll really have to look at this more later. 

 

Get some rest tonight.  

 

Best,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Altostrata & manymoretodays,

 

She is calling in the liquid Celexa. So I will skip today’s dose of Lexapro and start how many mg of Celexa tomorrow? She said it will be a 10ml/5mg ratio - I have a small syringe.

 

As far as the Ativan, I didn’t realize it was so addictive just using it as needed. I always dosed it at .25mg whenever I took it. She told me not to stop doing .25mg at morning and at night because I could have withdrawal symptoms. She said if anything, cut the .25mg in half morning and night. Is that correct or how should I go about the Ativan now? Now I’m worried about it possibly contributing to nausea/withdrawal.
 

Also, she prescribed phenergan for nausea, a low liquid dose since I’m so nauseous that it’s unbearable. Should I use it? 

 

She also said these are not withdrawals from Celexa...I didn’t have the energy to fight it. 

[manymoretodays]

1 hour ago, Shelton said:

She is calling in the liquid Celexa. So I will skip today’s dose of Lexapro and start how many mg of Celexa tomorrow? She said it will be a 10ml/5mg ratio - I have a small syringe.

 

Shelton,

I think that you should go over the measurement of your liquid Celexa with the pharmacist to avoid any potential mis- dosing.

They should supply you with a measuring device and be able to go over it with you so that you don't make a mistake.

 

The suggested dose that you might try is 0.5 mg.

If there are 5 mg in 10 mL, that would be 1 mg in 2 mL,  and then 0.5 mg in 1 mL.

I really would like you to go over the dosing and measuring with your pharmacist as you do seem to be somewhat confused........as a precaution, and to avoid errors.

 

Yes, I agree.  Continue with your Ativan twice a day for now rather than making two changes at once.

 

Here's drug information on Phenergan and if taken regularly, it may also need tapering

Tips for tapering promethazine/Phenergan

 

You know if it was me, and I was to try it........I would just try a partial dose first.  It's an antihistamine, and may make you tired.  We have had members who are sensitisized and with the kind of neuro-dysregulation like yours who sometimes get a paradoxical effect too.  Paradoxical means that you would get the opposite reaction to it.

So my advice would be to try just a small dose first and then if tolerated, keep it's use to a minimum.

 

Give a good effort with notes again, both today and tomorrow and keep us updated.  These were good:  your notes

Try and keep those going for at least the next week of time. 

 

Try not to expect too much, too soon now either.......we are looking for gradual improvements to a pretty severely dis- regulated nervous system.

 

Eat, sleep, heal, love.......

 

((((((( Shelton)))))))

mmt

 

 

[Shelton]

40 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Yes, I agree.  Continue with your Ativan twice a day for now rather than making two changes at once.

Im really scared now. The severe nausea subsided a lot after I took .125mg Ativan. 
 

Can the Celexa help stop the withdrawal symptoms from ativan if I’m having them? I can’t believe only 2 weeks consistently this may now be an issue. 

[Hanna72]

Hey @Shelton

I am sorry to see that you are struggling. I have been in your shoes before and I just want you to know that you don’t have to be scared. I know it’s frightening when you get overwhelming withdrawals and are hit with these symptoms. But you don’t have to be scared. We are right here to support you and the moderators will give you their advice as they have on doses. Try to stay as calm as you can, it truly helps your nervous system. Can you put on a soothing music and focus on your breathing. 
You will be ok, know that.

Sending you strength and calming vibes 🙏

 

[Shelton]

@Shep, @Altostrata, @manymoretodaysis it safe to stop ativan right now and just use magnesium for breakthrough anxiety?

 

Here is my timeline for today:

Thursday 09/10

8:00pm - 6:30am - SEVERE nausea...lasted all night. Felt like I was going to throw up at any moment. Diarrhea twice. Slept 3 hours total - no cortisol anxiety or shakes throughout the night but didn’t sleep a lot

 

6:30am-11:00am - severe nausea with flu like symptoms - “heavy brain” -weakness - almost threw up every time I lifted head off my pillow

 

11:00am - appt with psychiatrist. Told me to switch to Celexa liquid starting tomorrow. Did not take Lexapro this morning. 

 

11:15am - .125mg ativan - calmed down nausea some - still feeling flu like symptoms, weakness, hard to get out of bed

 

2:00pm - was able to eat a little toast and fruit and enjoyed it

 

3:00-6:00 - on and off nausea, weakness, flu like symptoms, brain fog

 

Throughout the day, PGAD sensations increased. Hoping starting Celexa tomorrow will tame those sensations

 

6:30pm - weakness, feeling fatigued/tired which haven’t felt in a while due to severe “cortisol anxiety” - body aches that are mild but noticeable - PGAD raring it’s ugly head (maybe from not taking Lexapro today?)

 

7:00pm - slight shakes/shivers, body aches

 

NOTE: I have taken around about 2 .25mg ativan morning and evening (inconsistent times) for 2 weeks to deal with withdrawal anxiety. Doctor told me to lower it to .125mg twice a day for now - wondering if I should stop now to prevent dependency/withdrawal issues?

[manymoretodays]

Sweetie, Shelton,

I don't want you to make any other changes right now or to the Ativan at all.

(you've been using the Ativan for 3 and 1/2 months Shelton, not just the last week......I know it's been off and on, but that kind of usage sometimes does lead to dependency)

 

That way we can see over a weeks time, how you do with the 0.5 mg of Celexa.

 

If you make too many changes at once, we just can't tell what is responsible for what.

 

8 hours ago, Shelton said:

As far as the Ativan, I didn’t realize it was so addictive just using it as needed. I always dosed it at .25mg whenever I took it. She told me not to stop doing .25mg at morning and at night because I could have withdrawal symptoms. She said if anything, cut the .25mg in half morning and night. Is that correct or how should I go about the Ativan now? Now I’m worried about it possibly contributing to nausea/withdrawal.

 

Above you state the doctor told you NOT to stop doing Ativan .25 mg twice a day.  I'd rather you wait to make changes with your Ativan right now. 

 

Trying some magnesium now sounds okay.  Put that in your notes too.  Start low and drink plenty of water with it.  Too much of some of the forms of magnesium can cause diarrhea. 

 

Read some of the basic links I gave you on withdrawal. Here's the main one, which in the first post has links to many more topics that should help you to learn a bit more.

*What is withdrawal syndrome?

You'll learn more, and find that even the Lexapro when taken for 7 years, causes dependencies that take time to recover from, if it is taken away too quickly. 

 

This is an internet forum type site for tapering and support around WD and withdrawal syndrome.   We're not doctors, we are people who have been through it or are going through it.  

Just in case, have you had any fever, or any reason to suspect a covid19 infection?  If so, find out where you might get tested please.

 

 Why did your doctor decide to switch you to Celexa right after giving birth?    I'm really hoping, that with time, we might save you from a lifetime of medication.  How old were you back in 2013, when you first got started on medications?

 

Try not to worry so much, to be patient with this process.  You're going heal, no doubt......it just takes time.

 

Best Shelton,

L, P, H, and G,

mmt 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by manymoretodays

[Shelton]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

don't want you to make any other changes right now or to the Ativan at all.

(you've been using the Ativan for 3 and 1/2 months Shelton, not just the last week......I know it's been off and on, but that kind of usage sometimes does lead to dependency)

Oh, lovely. Very quickly learning these doctors are so medication driven and just have no idea. She said if I didn’t “need” the Ativan for anxiety I could just take .125 but keep it at twice a day. Okay I’ll keep it the same!

 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Above you state the doctor told you NOT to stop doing Ativan .25 mg twice a day.  I'd rather you wait to make changes with your Ativan right now. 

[Shelton]

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Just in case, have you had any fever, or any reason to suspect a covid19 infection?  If so, find out where you might get tested please.

 
No! This worried me too with how bad the nausea and diarrhea was but they both subsided by around 3:00 today - reminder - I didn’t take Lexapro today. Not sure if that’s why it calmed down and the Lexapro was just too much. 
 

2 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Why did your doctor decide to switch you to Celexa right after giving birth?    I'm really hoping, that with time, we might save you from a lifetime of medication.  How old were you back in 2013, when you first got started on medications?

Good question. I had anxiety 10 days postpartum and nobody told me that was normal and my hormones needed to adjust on their own. I was fine at first but she increased from 10-30 so fast and my body crashed hard with an adverse reaction. 
 

I was 21 years old when I first started and boy do I wish I could go back in time! Trying so hard to be patient but nobody understands and I have my sweet little baby to take care of.

 

I am praying so badly the Celexa stabilizes me so I can heal and then get the heck off all of this stuff! Especially the Ativan because I hate how it makes me feel too. 
 

thank you so so so much for constantly being here ♥️

[Shelton]

5 hours ago, Hanna72 said:

Hey @Shelton

I am sorry to see that you are struggling. I have been in your shoes before and I just want you to know that you don’t have to be scared. I know it’s frightening when you get overwhelming withdrawals and are hit with these symptoms. But you don’t have to be scared. We are right here to support you and the moderators will give you their advice as they have on doses. Try to stay as calm as you can, it truly helps your nervous system. Can you put on a soothing music and focus on your breathing. 
You will be ok, know that.

Sending you strength and calming vibes 🙏

 

Thank you so so so much 😭♥️ This means the world to me!

[manymoretodays]

And hey Shelton,

Please double check the concentration of your liquid Celexa and ask the pharmacist to show you how to measure out 0.5 mg.

 

15 hours ago, Shelton said:

She is calling in the liquid Celexa. So I will skip today’s dose of Lexapro and start how many mg of Celexa tomorrow? She said it will be a 10ml/5mg ratio - I have a small syringe.

 

You stated 10 mL/ 5 mg

The information from the CVS link that Alto posted noted 10 mg/ 5 mL

 

Big difference.  If it IS the 2nd concentration, then disregard:

13 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

The suggested dose that you might try is 0.5 mg.

If there are 5 mg in 10 mL, that would be 1 mg in 2 mL,  and then 0.5 mg in 1 mL.

I really would like you to go over the dosing and measuring with your pharmacist as you do seem to be somewhat confused........as a precaution, and to avoid errors.

 

If it is 10 mg/5 mL  then the suggested dose of 0.5 mg  would only be .25 mL.

Again, please go over this with the pharmacist, and make sure you have an oral syringe that can measure that little amount of fluid.

 

[Shelton]

12 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And hey Shelton,

Please double check the concentration of your liquid Celexa and ask the pharmacist to show you how to measure out 0.5 mg.

 

 

You stated 10 mL/ 5 mg

The information from the CVS link that Alto posted noted 10 mg/ 5 mL

 

Big difference.  If it IS the 2nd concentration, then disregard:

 

If it is 10 mg/5 mL  then the suggested dose of 0.5 mg  would only be .25 mL.

Again, please go over this with the pharmacist, and make sure you have an oral syringe that can measure that little amount of fluid.

 

I did it correctly! I started this morning. 

[manymoretodays]

!  Excellent.

 

Regular dosing now- meaning same time, same dose(s) and Notes.  You really are getting the hang of that.

( and I won't get horribly upset if you tinker a bit with the Ativan dose, try mainly to keep those doses at regular times too, spaced out from each other 10-12 hours)

Add to notes any phenergan and magnesium(with dosages) and daily activities, and sleep......all to the right of times that you list throughout the day.

 

You must be resting today and that's good, even great!

Hugs to baby and you.

[Shelton]

22 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

!  Excellent.

 

Regular dosing now- meaning same time, same dose(s) and Notes.  You really are getting the hang of that.

( and I won't get horribly upset if you tinker a bit with the Ativan dose, try mainly to keep those doses at regular times too, spaced out from each other 10-12 hours)

Add to notes any phenergan and magnesium(with dosages) and daily activities, and sleep......all to the right of times that you list throughout the day.

 

You must be resting today and that's good, even great!

Hugs to baby and you.

Doc thinks I’m having inter dose withdrawals from ativan and wants to switch it to .125mg ativan 3x’s a day. 
 

is this smart?

@Altostrata @manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

8 hours ago, Shelton said:

Doc thinks I’m having inter dose withdrawals from ativan and wants to switch it to .125mg ativan 3x’s a day. 
 

is this smart?

 

Yes, it's pretty smart.  Ativan is usually dosed 2 or 3 times/day.

Are you able to get a .125 mg dose accurately?

Have you tried it twice a day?  Consistently?

I know, I know.......more questions than answers.

 

Notes are helpful when you ask questions like this, really helpful.......not only for us but for you and your doctor too.

And as I've said before, always best to just make one drug change at a time..........keeping the rest constant.

You haven't had constant or consistent for a long time. 

You've had 2 days now with the 0.5 mg citalopram, AND no doubt, changes in when and what dose, you take of Ativan.

 

So we don't really know what's what yet.    

Any non-drug coping that you have found to be helpful?  Cuddling the baby is one, for sure!  Baths, walks, breathing, listening to music.......oh so many things.  These are tough times for you I know.

 

Keep us updated, keep those notes coming too.  Last done Thursday.

Best Shelton.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by manymoretodays