Alan1234: desperately seeking help

[Rosetta]

I’m glad that you were able to get the EKG.  Definitely continue to have this checked out, and do not take any chances.  That’s a rare disease, and WD causes so many symptoms that mimic other diseases.  So, I hope that all your tests show that you don’t have it.  At least if you do, you will get treatment.  Please keep us posted?

 

I find that very upsetting that your doctor dismissed your concerns for 12 months.  Apparently, that’s common with myocarditis because it is so rare, but doctors should listen to their patients.
 

 

[Alan1234]

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I’m glad that you were able to get the EKG.  Definitely continue to have this checked out, and do not take any chances.  That’s a rare disease, and WD causes so many symptoms that mimic other diseases.  So, I hope that all your tests show that you don’t have it.  At least if you do, you will get treatment.  Please keep us posted?

 

I find that very upsetting that your doctor dismissed your concerns for 12 months.  Apparently, that’s common with myocarditis because it is so rare, but doctors should listen to their patients.
 

 

Yes the Cardiologist seemed genuinely surprised with the findings of my 24hr EKG. Hopefully be better news tomorrow when he’s done some more tests then fingers crossed for the MRI.

 

thank you for your support as always. It really does help and means a lot 

[Rosetta]

Of course.  You are welcome.

[Rosetta]

Did you get vaccinated, by any chance?  If so, which one?

[Alan1234]

Yes I did. Asteca Zeneca 

The cardiologist asked me if I had had Covid as he said that could be a cause 

[Alan1234]

Hey Rosetta 

I hope you are well

i started to develop very severe dizzy episodes and I passed out twice. I’ve spent the last 5days in hospital.

 

they have found an electrical problem with my heart but don’t know what is causing it so there sending me home today but have referred me to a larger specialist hospital. They thing the problem is related to doing too much exercise over the years and it’s changed the size of a part of my heart but there unsure. I have to wait now to have a cardiac MRI to look at the structural changes in more detail and then some invasive electrical testing. 
 

they are saying my dizziness is being made worse by my anxiety and want me to take a beta blocker but are also saying I should take an anti psychotic called Quetiapine to calm me down which then will help my heart. They said it might take 3mths before I have all the rest of the tests done and get the treatment for it. 
 

it’s all pretty scary as even though they say it’s probably been there for ages and it’s low risk, there putting the dizziness episodes down to anxiety but at the same time they’ve recommended that i should avoid being anywhere on my own out.

 

really don’t know what to do, don’t want to take the quetiapine but my anxiety is off the charts, I’m in blind panic again and can’t sleep. Would an anti depressant be better than quetiapine, I really feel like I’m in a massive wave my heads constantly spinning like I have vertigo but at the sametime don’t want to make my heart worse until I get the all clear or treatment 

[Rosetta]

Alan, 

 

Your doctors are asking you to take quetiapine (Seroquel) on the assumption that it will relieve your anxiety.  That is not likely, in my opinion.  Of course, I’m not a doctor, and you will do as you feel you should.  The problem is that quetiapine has its own side effects and its effects on a person in withdrawal from mirtazapine is something your doctors are not taking into account.  Sertraline, Prozac, and busipirone all made you feel worse.  That is because your sensitive nervous system could not handle those doses of the drugs.  Mirtazapine, paroxetine and Trazodone made you feel worse, right?  The same is very likely to happen with quetiapine.  
 

An electrical problem with your heart sounds very scary.  If you were a person who had not had these problems with all these drugs, perhaps some sort of anti-anxiety treatment would be worth the risk.  Whether quetiapine is an anti-anxiety drug — I am very skeptical, indeed.  It is not approved by the FDA for that use, to my knowledge.  The doctors are using it “off-label” for anxiety.  This means that the manufacturer has not done enough research to even recommend a dosage for anxiety. 
 

Two side effects are uncontrolled muscle movements and tremors.  It’s safe to say that a person in wd from psych drugs is more likely to have side effects.  What if the muscle affected is your heart?  Also quetiapine has been associated with myopericarditis, an inflammation of the pericardium of the heart.  
 

Quetiapine causes dependency and will have to be tapered.  Dependency can form within a month on the drug.  Please look it up online to find all the different risks of taking it.  You are not psychotic.  Why take an anti-psychotic?   When tapering off you might experience psychosis.  Also, it affects dopamine.  So, the risk of developing movement disorders such as dystonia, dyskinesia and Parkinsonism is implicated.  I have dystonia from taking high doses of Zoloft because it affects dopamine at high doses.  No one told me of that risk.  I think if your doctors discussed all the risks with you they would scare the a hell out of you.  I assume they did not even touch upon the subject.

 

There are many ways to manage anxiety.  Antipsychotics at not one of them, in my book.  You are safer to avoid drugs for this condition.  
 

Here’s the thread on Beta blockers.  Maybe you should see Alto’s comment about her experience with an alpha blocker.  Perhaps that would be an option the doctor would consider? https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/999-beta-blockers-propranolol-metopropol-atenolol-etc/

 

[Alan1234]

11 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Alan, 

 

Your doctors are asking you to take quetiapine (Seroquel) on the assumption that it will relieve your anxiety.  That is not likely, in my opinion.  Of course, I’m not a doctor, and you will do as you feel you should.  The problem is that quetiapine has its own side effects and its effects on a person in withdrawal from mirtazapine is something your doctors are not taking into account.  Sertraline, Prozac, and busipirone all made you feel worse.  That is because your sensitive nervous system could not handle those doses of the drugs.  Mirtazapine, paroxetine and Trazodone made you feel worse, right?  The same is very likely to happen with quetiapine.  
 

An electrical problem with your heart sounds very scary.  If you were a person who had not had these problems with all these drugs, perhaps some sort of anti-anxiety treatment would be worth the risk.  Whether quetiapine is an anti-anxiety drug — I am very skeptical, indeed.  It is not approved by the FDA for that use, to my knowledge.  The doctors are using it “off-label” for anxiety.  This means that the manufacturer has not done enough research to even recommend a dosage for anxiety. 
 

Two side effects are uncontrolled muscle movements and tremors.  It’s safe to say that a person in wd from psych drugs is more likely to have side effects.  What if the muscle affected is your heart?  Also quetiapine has been associated with myopericarditis, an inflammation of the pericardium of the heart.  
 

Quetiapine causes dependency and will have to be tapered.  Dependency can form within a month on the drug.  Please look it up online to find all the different risks of taking it.  You are not psychotic.  Why take an anti-psychotic?   When tapering off you might experience psychosis.  Also, it affects dopamine.  So, the risk of developing movement disorders such as dystonia, dyskinesia and Parkinsonism is implicated.  I have dystonia from taking high doses of Zoloft because it affects dopamine at high doses.  No one told me of that risk.  I think if your doctors discussed all the risks with you they would scare the a hell out of you.  I assume they did not even touch upon the subject.

 

There are many ways to manage anxiety.  Antipsychotics at not one of them, in my book.  You are safer to avoid drugs for this condition.  
 

Here’s the thread on Beta blockers.  Maybe you should see Alto’s comment about her experience with an alpha blocker.  Perhaps that would be an option the doctor would consider? https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/999-beta-blockers-propranolol-metopropol-atenolol-etc/

 

Ok thank you for your advice, the extreme dizziness, vertigo must be prolonged withdrawn from venlafaxine and mirtazapine. While I’ve been in hospital they won’t prescribe the Mirtazapine as they say the 3.75mg isn’t doing anything. I’m probably getting withdrawal from not having that dose. 
I’ve only been on mirtazapine 8mths and for the most part 15mg until March of this year. How long would you recommend staying on 3.75mg for as my system is so screwed up 6mths or 1 year ??

[AlanC]

Hello Alan,

 

I’m stuck in a wave at the moment, but saw your posts and thought I might be able to offer a bit of reassurance:

 

Dizziness is a common symptom during antidepressant withdrawal. There are research papers suggesting a cause: the part of your brain responsible for your sense of balance has a lot of serotonin receptors in it, so stopping an antidepressant too quickly may upset it.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20144124/

 

Dizziness is something that I’ve had a lot of trouble with: after stopping the Citalopram there was a period when I had to walk with a stick when I was outside because my balance was so bad. But it got better. I do wonder if your heart problems could be another cause if they’re affecting your blood pressure, meaning you’re getting hit from two different directions at the same time.

 

There’s a history of benign heart irregularities in my family. Oddly, it only seems to affect the women: my Grandmother had it, three of her daughters (including my mother) had it, my eldest sister has it. The age at which it first appeared seems to have varied wildly: it showed up in my sister at age 3 or 4, but didn’t show up in my mother until she was around 60. They’ve all described it as feeling like their hearts are missing beats or slowing down: it really scared my mother first time it happened. But it is benign. My grandmother almost reached her 100th birthday, my mother and her sisters all lived well into their 90’s and my sister is in her 70’s now; none of them ever had any problems as a result of their heart irregularities. The fact that the doctors haven’t spotted any definite cause for what’s been happening to you may well be a hopeful sign that it is something benign, and something that will become much easier to deal with as you get through the antidepressant withdrawal.

[Rosetta]

How long have you been in the hospital?  I’m sorry that you haven’t been able to have the mirtazapine.  For anyone reading, yet another good reason not to take any psychoactive drug.  If you get post wd syndrome and need a tiny amount, the doctors, who know nothing about how potent these drugs are, won’t let you have what you need.  I suppose arguing with them won’t help, Alan.
 

You may need even less when you get home, Alan.  That’s how it works apparently.  With each wd episode, the sensitivity increases, and taking it again requires extreme care.  Going back to the previous dose might cause problems.  The fact that they won’t let you have mirt is all the more reason to be careful with anything else they give you.  
 

By the way, I don’t know if this is relevant to your situation, but it has been in the news that the COVID vaccine has been causing false positives for heart attack tests in young people.  The patients have myocarditis or pericarditis instead.  (That’s not a trivial condition.) Maybe your reaction is similar.  The theory is that younger people may have stronger response to the vaccine, and inflammation is the result.  Maybe you had a stronger response because you are sensitive to drugs. Here is an article https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/06/17/1007447098/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens-symptoms-myocarditis

 

As mirtazapine is an anti-histamine, you might be experiencing inflammation, in general.  If a drug suppresses the histamine reaction while we take it, when we stop, the body overproduced histamine.  This happens to a lot of people in post WD syndrome.

 

Hang in there.  As a CT, my experience is an example of how people can survive it.  You can, too.  It’s going to be ok.

[Rosetta]

https://meridian.allenpress.com/mhc/article/9/6/401/428911/Pruritus-associated-with-abrupt-mirtazapine
 

This is a case report about body-wide inflammation cause by mirtazapine withdrawal.

[Rosetta]

Time for twenty questions:
 

Are you home now?
 

How many days did you miss your mirtazapine dose?  
 

Did you take the quetapine while at the hospital?  If so, what was the dose?  How many doses?
 

What other drugs did you get in the hospital?  Please list them, the amount of the doses and the number of doses?

 

What are you taking now?
 

@Gridley Alan had cardiac issues, and was in the hospital.  The doctors at the hospital CT’d him from his 3.75 mg mirtazapine.  He may need help deciding what dose to reinstate when he is home.

[Alan1234]

21 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

How long have you been in the hospital?  I’m sorry that you haven’t been able to have the mirtazapine.  For anyone reading, yet another good reason not to take any psychoactive drug.  If you get post wd syndrome and need a tiny amount, the doctors, who know nothing about how potent these drugs are, won’t let you have what you need.  I suppose arguing with them won’t help, Alan.
 

You may need even less when you get home, Alan.  That’s how it works apparently.  With each wd episode, the sensitivity increases, and taking it again requires extreme care.  Going back to the previous dose might cause problems.  The fact that they won’t let you have mirt is all the more reason to be careful with anything else they give you.  
 

By the way, I don’t know if this is relevant to your situation, but it has been in the news that the COVID vaccine has been causing false positives for heart attack tests in young people.  The patients have myocarditis or pericarditis instead.  (That’s not a trivial condition.) Maybe your reaction is similar.  The theory is that younger people may have stronger response to the vaccine, and inflammation is the result.  Maybe you had a stronger response because you are sensitive to drugs. Here is an article https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/06/17/1007447098/pfizer-covid-vaccine-teens-symptoms-myocarditis

 

As mirtazapine is an anti-histamine, you might be experiencing inflammation, in general.  If a drug suppresses the histamine reaction while we take it, when we stop, the body overproduced histamine.  This happens to a lot of people in post WD syndrome.

 

Hang in there.  As a CT, my experience is an example of how people can survive it.  You can, too.  It’s going to be ok.

Yes they have said that my heart electrical issue and the unexplained structural changes might have been caused by a viral infection and led to a myocarditis. They are sending me for a cardiac MRI to check the structural changes seen in the ECHO. They have apologised to me that they know something is working right with my heart but that they really don’t know the cause. They have said that as it’s a smaller regional hospital they have referred me to a Specialist hospital for heart problems who can run the further scan and tests required. They said they can’t do them at my local hospital and aren’t allowed to do the MRI as the health care system in the UK dictates it has to be done at a specialist hospital.  They have asked me if I have had Covid and have certainly admitted it could also be possible this is due to the Covid vaccinations. 
 

it’s really just all thrown my nervous system into a fast spin. They have out me on 3 heart meds but after 2 days they stopped the beta blockers as my heart rate was dropping to 35bpm and my blood pressure was dropping very low so could be making the dizziness worse especially as sitting and lying is worse. This is also off the lowest dose possible! I was discharged from hospital last night but they have discharged and now told me to take the beta blockers as a protection against the unexplained VT episodes that they are the most concerned about. I just feel my whole system is so sensitive that all these drugs are making me worse at present. 
 

I think I’m just going to start the Mirt again in 3.75mg only and give myself a few days from there.  

[Alan1234]

1 minute ago, Alan1234 said:

Yes they have said that my heart electrical issue and the unexplained structural changes might have been caused by a viral infection and led to a myocarditis. They are sending me for a cardiac MRI to check the structural changes seen in the ECHO. They have apologised to me that they know something is working right with my heart but that they really don’t know the cause. They have said that as it’s a smaller regional hospital they have referred me to a Specialist hospital for heart problems who can run the further scan and tests required. They said they can’t do them at my local hospital and aren’t allowed to do the MRI as the health care system in the UK dictates it has to be done at a specialist hospital.  They have asked me if I have had Covid and have certainly admitted it could also be possible this is due to the Covid vaccinations. 
 

it’s really just all thrown my nervous system into a fast spin. They have out me on 3 heart meds but after 2 days they stopped the beta blockers as my heart rate was dropping to 35bpm and my blood pressure was dropping very low so could be making the dizziness worse especially as sitting and lying is worse. This is also off the lowest dose possible! I was discharged from hospital last night but they have discharged and now told me to take the beta blockers as a protection against the unexplained VT episodes that they are the most concerned about. I just feel my whole system is so sensitive that all these drugs are making me worse at present. 
 

I think I’m just going to start the Mirt again in 3.75mg only and give myself a few days from there.  

I also must have a lot of inflammation as they said my C reactive protein is high that indicates high inflammation and they thought for the first day a blood clot could be the cause of that 

[Alan1234]

16 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Time for twenty questions:
 

Are you home now?
 

How many days did you miss your mirtazapine dose?  
 

Did you take the quetapine while at the hospital?  If so, what was the dose?  How many doses?
 

What other drugs did you get in the hospital?  Please list them, the amount of the doses and the number of doses?

 

What are you taking now?
 

@Gridley Alan had cardiac issues, and was in the hospital.  The doctors at the hospital CT’d him from his 3.75 mg mirtazapine.  He may need help deciding what dose to reinstate when he is home.

Yes I am home today.

I missed 5 days of mirtazapine.

 

No I haven’t taken the quetiapine.

I refused it. I did take 7.5mg of Zopliclone for 4 nights as the dizziness was so bad I couldn’t even lie down to sleep. I do hope that was the tablets they actually gave me. 
 

i was in beta blocker bisprolol fumate 1.25mg for 5days

 

also GTN spray Nitrolingual 6.3grms approx 10 doses over 3days

 

also NSAIDs 2 x 500mg naproxen 

painkillers cocodomol 30/500 x 4 tablets over two days

 

they discharged me and told me to take

1 x bisprolol per day

Nitrolingual as required

NSAIDS and cocodomol as required

1x 25mg Quetiapine per day

 

i haven’t taken any of these as I felt awful off them and the dizziness got worse on them but could be the withdrawal of mirtazapine 

 

 

 

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, AlanC said:

Hello Alan,

 

I’m stuck in a wave at the moment, but saw your posts and thought I might be able to offer a bit of reassurance:

 

Dizziness is a common symptom during antidepressant withdrawal. There are research papers suggesting a cause: the part of your brain responsible for your sense of balance has a lot of serotonin receptors in it, so stopping an antidepressant too quickly may upset it.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20144124/

 

Dizziness is something that I’ve had a lot of trouble with: after stopping the Citalopram there was a period when I had to walk with a stick when I was outside because my balance was so bad. But it got better. I do wonder if your heart problems could be another cause if they’re affecting your blood pressure, meaning you’re getting hit from two different directions at the same time.

 

There’s a history of benign heart irregularities in my family. Oddly, it only seems to affect the women: my Grandmother had it, three of her daughters (including my mother) had it, my eldest sister has it. The age at which it first appeared seems to have varied wildly: it showed up in my sister at age 3 or 4, but didn’t show up in my mother until she was around 60. They’ve all described it as feeling like their hearts are missing beats or slowing down: it really scared my mother first time it happened. But it is benign. My grandmother almost reached her 100th birthday, my mother and her sisters all lived well into their 90’s and my sister is in her 70’s now; none of them ever had any problems as a result of their heart irregularities. The fact that the doctors haven’t spotted any definite cause for what’s been happening to you may well be a hopeful sign that it is something benign, and something that will become much easier to deal with as you get through the antidepressant withdrawal.

Hi Alan

thank you for your reply.

yes it’s reassuring. They don’t know what’s causing it but admitted it needs a specialist heart hospital to diagnose it as they aren’t able to do the tests required at the local hospital. They said it could be potentially very serious and there’s definitely something unexplained going on which obviously concerns them. I think the fact I’ve passed out 4 times in the last 2 mths, 3 times while just sat down concerns them as I have never had any episodes like this previously in my life.  Equally it could be something similar to what you have described in your family. 

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, AlanC said:

Hello Alan,

 

I’m stuck in a wave at the moment, but saw your posts and thought I might be able to offer a bit of reassurance:

 

Dizziness is a common symptom during antidepressant withdrawal. There are research papers suggesting a cause: the part of your brain responsible for your sense of balance has a lot of serotonin receptors in it, so stopping an antidepressant too quickly may upset it.

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20144124/

 

Dizziness is something that I’ve had a lot of trouble with: after stopping the Citalopram there was a period when I had to walk with a stick when I was outside because my balance was so bad. But it got better. I do wonder if your heart problems could be another cause if they’re affecting your blood pressure, meaning you’re getting hit from two different directions at the same time.

 

There’s a history of benign heart irregularities in my family. Oddly, it only seems to affect the women: my Grandmother had it, three of her daughters (including my mother) had it, my eldest sister has it. The age at which it first appeared seems to have varied wildly: it showed up in my sister at age 3 or 4, but didn’t show up in my mother until she was around 60. They’ve all described it as feeling like their hearts are missing beats or slowing down: it really scared my mother first time it happened. But it is benign. My grandmother almost reached her 100th birthday, my mother and her sisters all lived well into their 90’s and my sister is in her 70’s now; none of them ever had any problems as a result of their heart irregularities. The fact that the doctors haven’t spotted any definite cause for what’s been happening to you may well be a hopeful sign that it is something benign, and something that will become much easier to deal with as you get through the antidepressant withdrawal.

I hope you get off that wave soon mate 

[Rosetta]

The dose of 3.75 mirtazapine might be too much now that you have had all that upset after being in hospital.  Please wait for Gridley to respond.  The Mods may recommend 1 mg or even less.

 

Maybe the beta blocker was just given in too high of a dose for you.  
 

It is so ridiculous.  They need to have protocols for people in wd from ADs.  I assume they have them for street drug addicts.  They must have all kinds of precautions for them.  If they are admitting these drugs must be tapered, then there is a lot of readjustment to emergency room management that should happen.  Until the research is done, there will be no standardization.  If you happen to have a doctor whose life has been touched by AD WD, you might get somewhat decent care.  Then, he’s not there the next time you appear.  Just insanity.

 

 

[Gridley]

@Alan1234  @Rosetta

 

Alan1234,

 

Rosetta has tagged me regarding your Mirtazapine CT in the hospital and possibilities for your reinstatement of that drug.

 

Because of the 5 missed days and the upset of the hospital, reinstating 3.75mg may be too much for you now.  I'd suggest reinstating 1mg and see how that does.  It takes 4 days for the reinstated dose to reach full strength in your blood stream and a few more days for it to register in the brain.  Give it time to work.

 

After it's had time to work, if it's not enough you can slowly add in a bit more.  But let's take that one step at a time.

 

Please keep us updated on how you're doing.  You can tag me @Gridley then press enter.

 

It's very good you didn't take the Seroquel and possibly opening up a whole new area of problems.

 

 

[Alan1234]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

The dose of 3.75 mirtazapine might be too much now that you have had all that upset after being in hospital.  Please wait for Gridley to respond.  The Mods may recommend 1 mg or even less.

 

Maybe the beta blocker was just given in too high of a dose for you.  
 

It is so ridiculous.  They need to have protocols for people in wd from ADs.  I assume they have them for street drug addicts.  They must have all kinds of precautions for them.  If they are admitting these drugs must be tapered, then there is a lot of readjustment to emergency room management that should happen.  Until the research is done, there will be no standardization.  If you happen to have a doctor whose life has been touched by AD WD, you might get somewhat decent care.  Then, he’s not there the next time you appear.  Just insanity.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Gridley said:

@Alan1234  @Rosetta

 

Alan1234,

 

Rosetta has tagged me regarding your Mirtazapine CT in the hospital and possibilities for your reinstatement of that drug.

 

Because of the 5 missed days and the upset of the hospital, reinstating 3.75mg may be too much for you now.  I'd suggest reinstating 1mg and see how that does.  It takes 4 days for the reinstated dose to reach full strength in your blood stream and a few more days for it to register in the brain.  Give it time to work.

 

After it's had time to work, if it's not enough you can slowly add in a bit more.  But let's take that one step at a time.

 

Please keep us updated on how you're doing.  You can tag me @Gridley then press enter.

 

It's very good you didn't take the Seroquel and possibly opening up a whole new area of problems.

 

 

Hi @Gridley

Thanks for your reply 

dumb question but do you know how I can get 1mg of mirtazapine ?

im on the liquid which is 15mg/1ml but the syringe that is specially made so it fits inside the bottle when turned upside down so it doesn’t spill is 3ml syringe and it only has markings on at 3,2,1ml.  I could look for a smaller insulin like syringe but the diameter of the outlet that fits in the bottle is going to be a different size. 
 

Any further help  on this would be appreciated.

 

finally can I pick your brains further. I’ve been on anti depressants for 20yrs with no review from a doctor. I had no idea how serious these drugs were hence my too fast withdrawal from venlafaxine in May 2020. This then led to what I now know as the prolonged withdrawal state I’m in today. Mirtazapine has helped a little with this. How long should I aim to stay on 1mg/3.75mg of mirtazapine for ? I assume this isn’t an easy question to answer and do I just stay in this for as many months or years as it takes to start feeling more stable before I consider to stop it ?

thank you

 

[Rosetta]

I think you can mix water with liquid medicine to make it easier to get an accurate dose.  Of course, never let water get into the vial of medicine.  @Gridley
 

I haven’t done this myself, but my understanding is that you would buy a 10 ml medicine syringe for small animals.  Get a small container with a tight fitting lid such as little, jam jar.  

 

Here’s the thread on using liquid medicine for tiny doses.
 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/235-using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques/page/2/

 

There might be an easier way, but just to get you started, I would do this —

 

Use the syringe that came with the bottle to pull out 3 ml from the medicine vial.  Push that medicine into the small container.  Pour water into a bowl, and, using the new syringe, pull out 6 ml of water.  Push the 6 ml into the small container.  Mix the solution well.  You will have 9 ml of mixture.  Each 3 ml will have one milliliter of medicine. Then, with the new syringe, pull out 3 ml of the mixture, and take it.

 

 

Put the jar in the refrigerator.  It might be necessary to swish the liquid in the jar around to mix it well right before each time you take a dose.  I’m not sure.  
 

I suppose you could make up 6 days worth of mixture at a time with 12 ml of water and 6 ml of medicine.  It’s an inconvenient number, but making 7 days worth would be difficult.  The mixture should last a week, I believe.  At least it does when pills are dissolved in water.  

[Gridley]

8 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

dumb question but do you know how I can get 1mg of mirtazapine ?

im on the liquid which is 15mg/1ml but the syringe that is specially made so it fits inside the bottle when turned upside down so it doesn’t spill is 3ml syringe and it only has markings on at 3,2,1ml.  I could look for a smaller insulin like syringe but the diameter of the outlet that fits in the bottle is going to be a different size. 

I'm not knowledgeable about syringes, so I've brought your question to the attention of the other staff.  Rosetta has given you some suggestions about this

 

8 hours ago, Alan1234 said:

How long should I aim to stay on 1mg/3.75mg of mirtazapine for ? I assume this isn’t an easy question to answer and do I just stay in this for as many months or years as it takes to start feeling more stable before I consider to stop it ?

First, try the 1mg Mirtazapine for several days to see if it helps.  If not, you can slowly increase until you get some relief, but do it slowly, maybe up to 2mg to see how that works.  The maximum increase should be no more than 3.75mg, your former dose.

 

As to how long you stay on the reinstated dose of Mirtazapine--whatever dose you ultimately settle on--the criterion is when you feel stable.  This can take up to a few months.  "Stable" means your symptoms are tolerable and do not change a lot from day to.  Once you're reached that point, you can begin to taper your dose, using our 10% every four weeks method.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

We recommend you taper down very low before stopping the drug, down into the low .00mg area.  For example, I tapered Lexapro down to 0.025mg before stopping.  Getting down even lower, to 0.01mg,  would be good also, but that's in the future.  The task now is:

1.  Find a good reinstatement dose that relieves your symptoms.  "Relieve" doesn't means eliminate the symptoms but rather makes them tolerable.

2.  Hold on that dose until you feel stable--this can take from a few weeks to a few months.

3.  Once you've stabilized, taper down very low using the 10% method.

4.  Stop taking the drug (what we call "jumping to zero") once you're very low in dosage, down to a low .00mg dosage.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Gridley

[Alan1234]

My anxiety is back to the severest like in March. 
 

im unable to fall asleep and scared to even leave the house now to even get groceries. 
 

is this normal to react so badly in withdrawal? I did have some anxiety before I ever started these drugs but it’s off the scale now. I’m going to lose my job who stuck by me the last time if I can’t get this under control. 
 

Is this normal in withdrawal to be like this ? 

[Alan1234]

I can’t cope with this 

I feel the worst ever

i can’t breathe 

my heart is racing

my vision is blurred and I can’t tolerate the light

 

my wife and daughter have been speaking to me again on the phone when they hear me like this they will cut me off again

 

i can’t go on like this 

[Rosetta]

Hi.  It’s going to pass.  I know this is really hard.  Did you take the 1 mg yet?

[Alan1234]

2 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Hi.  It’s going to pass.  I know this is really hard.  Did you take the 1 mg yet?

Yes i took it last night, I had vertigo symptoms with Jaw and chest pain all night. I nearly went back to the hospital but I realise that this is probably more likely related to the withdrawal that these so called medical professionals won’t acknowledge. 
I feel so bad the blurry vision and sensitivity to light are new symptoms.

 

[Rosetta]

Ok.  Wow.  You are really having a tough time.  Do you have Epsom salts for a bath?

[Alan1234]

7 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Hi.  It’s going to pass.  I know this is really hard.  Did you take the 1 mg yet?

 

1 minute ago, Rosetta said:

Ok.  Wow.  You are really having a tough time.  Do you have Epsom salts for a bath?

No I don’t 

I can’t walk outside as my vision is so affected.

I don’t understand why I’m getting all these new symptoms after all it’s been 3mths since I dropped to 3.5mg and I seemed relatively ok compared to how I feel now after the first 3 wks 

[Rosetta]

Each time the dose is changed or you do not take the medicine on time, you run the risk of further symptoms — new ones, increase in severity.  Taking other drugs can cause that, too, at times.  Some drugs we have to take or at least try.  Are you taking the beta blocker?  It’s a tough position.  With heart issues, I’m not going to say the beta blocker is not important.  It could be, but the dose might be too high.  I don’t want you to have more heart problems without it, you know?  

[Rosetta]

Do you think your wife will change her tune when she finds out you gave (have) a heart condition?  Is she living far away?  Could she shop for you?  Could your mom shop for you?

 

Do sunglasses help?  I assume you don’t have to drive, correct?

[Alan1234]

1 minute ago, Rosetta said:

Each time the dose is changed or you do not take the medicine on time, you run the risk of further symptoms — new ones, increase in severity.  Taking other drugs can cause that, too, at times.  Some drugs we have to take or at least try.  Are you taking the beta blocker?  It’s a tough position.  With heart issues, I’m not going to say the beta blocker is not important.  It could be, but the dose might be too high.  I don’t want you to have more heart problems without it, you know?  

I’m not taking the beta blocker as I’m feeling so bad. I think all these different drugs they have given me in hospital have caused this. It makes no sense as i was taking the beta blocker for 5days before I went in hospital then they stopped it when I got here as said my heart rate and blood pressure was getting too low. Then they discharged me with it and told me to take it. The Doctor also wanted to put me on satins and aspirin but I refused them. The beta blocker is also the lowest dose possible but I haven’t taken it since Monday 

[Rosetta]

Ok.  Yes, being in hospital has its consequences, but you need to stay alive, too.  Well, in theory, the bb should help you, but how to take into account the sensitivity of your nervous system is the issue.  Is there any way to take half the dose?  Does the pill have a line down the middle?

[Alan1234]

1 minute ago, Rosetta said:

Do you think your wife will change her tune when she finds out you gave (have) a heart condition?  Is she living far away?  Could she shop for you?  Could your mom shop for you?

 

Do sunglasses help?  I assume you don’t have to drive, correct?

She knows about the heart condition. Her mum passed away 2wks ago so she can’t cope with me being like this and doesn’t believe in withdrawal and thinks I should take all the drugs the Docs have prescribed including quetiapine. She doesn’t live close by and doesn’t drive also. 
The Docs never said I had to stop driving which I think is insane as I don’t think I’m fit enough or feel safe enough to drive. It makes me think when I’m reporting being so dizzy they just don’t seem to get it or listen. 
I was so scared last night again, I’m accepting how i feel but jaw pain, chest pain and vertigo all night are very scary. I’m taking there word that it’s not to serious and anything to immediately worry about until I get more tests and putting it down to anxiety 

[Rosetta]

When do you see the specialist?  Today?

[Alan1234]

1 minute ago, Rosetta said:

Ok.  Yes, being in hospital has its consequences, but you need to stay alive, too.  Well, in theory, the bb should help you, but how to take into account the sensitivity of your nervous system is the issue.  Is there any way to take half the dose?  Does the pill have a line down the middle?

I will have a look, there the tiniest of tablets 

[Alan1234]

Just now, Rosetta said:

When do you see the specialist?  Today?

 No they said it Could take upto 2mths before they see me now as it’s a specialist heart hospital I need and because of Covid the hospitals in the UK are running at not even a quarter of there usual capacity