Strugglingmama: a series of withdrawals ?

[Strugglingmama]

@Greatful

 

thank you for the links. Yes I am going in person. I actually had been reading about the SERT occupancy studies the other day and was shocked. I have no idea how this conversation will go. My husband is going to come along. I will admit I am very sick. In a very bad wave. I have never felt so anxious and scared in my life. It truly feels like my heart may burst out of my chest at any moment. I have some clonazepam at home and I am debating a dose for my sanity and one night of rest. I think reinstatement may be worth the risks as I am in a very very bad place. Who knows if it would work. 
 

@Surviving82 it is so hard when we think we are making progress then boom. We aren’t. I think for me taking and stopping the propranolol made things worse. It’s like my heart rebounded to extra terrible. So I’m now dealing with that. Praying every day it passes soon so my little boy gets his mom back. 

[Altostrata]

You might want to talk with your psychiatrist about your withdrawal experience, but do not expect validation from your doctors. 

 

See How to talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal? What to expect?

 

You may wish to take or send her the following papers. All may be downloaded at the links.

 

Horowitz, M. A., & Taylor, D. (2019). Tapering of SSRI treatment to mitigate withdrawal symptoms. The Lancet Psychiatry, 6(6), 538–546. https://doi.org/10.1016/S2215-0366(19)30032-X full text https://markhorowitz.org/academic-papers/

 

Hengartner, M. P., Schulthess, L., Sorensen, A., & Framer, A. (2020). Protracted withdrawal syndrome after stopping antidepressants: A descriptive quantitative analysis of consumer narratives from a large internet forum. Therapeutic Advances in Psychopharmacology. https://doi.org/10.1177/2045125320980573

 

Framer, A. (2021). What I have learnt from helping thousands of people to taper off antidepressants and other psychotropic medications. Therapeutic Advances in Psychopharmacology. https://doi.org/10.1177/2045125321991274

[Greatful]

@Strugglingmama  Stopping by to see how you are doing?

[Strugglingmama]

@Greatful

 

hello. Thanks for checking in. I am okay. Not great. My son got a cold and gave it to me so I feel like that doesn’t help anything. I am also struggling because I was diagnosed with pots recently (postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome) …which part of me hopes is withdrawal related and it will go away when my withdrawal does…. But it makes me feel pretty awful. I also had a concussion last year so I’m not sure if it’s related to that.  Just showering this morning my heart rate sky rocketed to 150. It gives me brain fog too. It’s hard to distinguish between pots and withdrawal. They are kind of intertwined. 
 

I meant to reply early. I actually work in a children’s hospital so I don’t see much for antidepressants. Maybe if I had worked in the community it would have scared me and I would have never taken them! 
 

I also see my psychiatrist on Wednesday and am really torn about reinstatement of a small dose. I am 3 months out. 
 

basically I am just overwhelmed today!

 

 

how are you doing? 

[Greatful]

@Strugglingmama  How are you doing?

How did your appt. go?  Only if you want to share☺️

[Strugglingmama]

Hi @Greatful

 

thanks for checking in. 
my appointment went okay but not great.  She felt I didn’t have protracted withdrawal but rather the symptoms I’m experiencing are due to my POTS and post concussion. She said she hasn’t dug into the literature and anything is possible but feels my other conditions are more likely to blame.

 

she also offered me Effexor. which I declined. 
 

I spoke to work today and am going to reduce my hours for a few weeks and see if that helps. My pots (whether causes by withdrawal or my concussion) is quite out of control. My heart rate was in the 170s this morning just from blow drying my hair. I am speaking to my cardiologist on Wednesday. Despite me disliking drugs I may need a low dose something to control this heart (heart med not psych med) 

 

lately I feel dizzy and off balance which I don’t love 
 

 

 

[Greatful]

@Strugglingmama  I find it kind of funny how she doesn't think it is protracted withdrawal, that is more likely to be from other health issues.

So why would she offer you another antidepressant.  It's sounds like, here take a pill (ssri) it will fix everything.   Like they say, keep throwing a antidepressants at it and see if one sticks.

Did you bring any paperwork with you that would help explain where you were coming from?

10 hours ago, Strugglingmama said:

Despite me disliking drugs I may need a low dose something to control this heart (heart med not psych med) 

 

There  is nothing wrong with taking something for your heart.  The difference is they can do tests and actually see if and where there is a problem.  It is good that you are ruling out any other possibilities for your symptoms so then you will know what all you are dealing with.

 

I am glad that your work is being understanding.

Hang in there, remember one day at a time.❤️ 

 

[Strugglingmama]

Today I am having a day. most days are bad. I am overthinking everything. Sick of the anxiety I have had for 3 months straight. Worried about losing my career. Missing easy days with my husband and son. Seriously debating going back on sertraline. 
 

[Strugglingmama]

Update: calmed myself down. No sertraline for me. If at all maybe 1mg to see how it goes. 
 

I do wonder if anyone has insight for me. My anxiety is still bad. Heart palpitations also still bad. 
 

Lately I feel like I’m on a boat and having difficultly concentrating. Like this uneasy drunk feeling. I actually hate it. I have had it before but never this intense. It goes away if I lay down but I can’t really live in bed. I also have noticed an increase in floaters. 
 

I did try low dose propranolol for a few weeks for my heart, I also had a single dose of clonazepam 0.25mg august 10th for my sons bday. No idea of these made things worse. I’m going to stay away from clonazepam going forward. 
 

propranolol 5-10mg twice daily (July 24-august 8th) 

[Greatful]

@Strugglingmama 

 

 

 

On 8/22/2021 at 8:26 PM, Strugglingmama said:

I am overthinking everything. Sick of the anxiety I have had for 3 months straight.

So sorry to see the anxiety has it's claws in you.....The crazy thing about this wd is the ups and downs with the symptoms...I

I am struggling again with early morning  cortisol spikes in the morning.  This morning at 4:30am I was up taking some Magnesium.  UGH.  

Fighting against it is going to make it more uncomfortable.  I know this first hand.  If you can say to yourself, Yes this is uncomfortable but it's not going to kill me.  It seems to take away some of the panic and fear, and lessons the need to fight and run from it.   Try the rag doll technique,  totally sag your body, releasing the tension.

 

I can't give any advice on heart palpitations,  so far I have not had a big Issus with this.  Hopefully someone that has will chime in, or you can do a search  on google survivingantidepressants heart palpitations,  

 

Remind yourself I am in wd and my thoughts are going to out of wack, morphed and distorted.  Bounce things off your husband to help you see things through a  more rational mind.

Meditation is a great tool to learn.  It will help you acknowledge your thoughts but not get caught up in them.

 

On 8/22/2021 at 8:26 PM, Strugglingmama said:

Missing easy days with my husband and son

I can relate to this feeling. Unfortunately WD affects everyone around us.....

Know that you are a good mother and wife and you are doing the best you can in the difficult situation. ❤️

 This not forever,  you will heal and this will be a small blot on your road map in life.  Stay in the day and focus on now.

Again I am so sorry that any of us have to go through this, but each day is a new day and one day closer to being healed.....

 

 

 

 

 

[Strugglingmama]

@Greatful

 

thanks for your kind reply. It is just so hard and I question everyday what I should do. Reinstate or not. I have been ‘toughing’ it out for over 3 months and often I feel like things are just getting worse. I wake up anxious every morning and it stays all day. It’s exhausting. I am working only 3 days a week right now and I find it very difficult. 
 

I do try to be a good mom and wife anyways but it’s so hard. My husband is wonderful and such a good dad. My son is 2, but absolutely brilliant. He is the main reason I won’t give up. 
 

 

[Greatful]

@Strugglingmama  I hear your pain.😥  

Are you journaling or keeping a daily record.  Some times this will help when you are in a rough spot.   You can look back and see the progress, it may be small but it is there.   

You are a very strong woman, you should be proud of yourself, working, raising a family and struggling through WD❤️

Please share all your information on WD and side affects from these meds. with your peers.  We need to spread the word to help stop the pain.

Hang in there, know that you are not alone.  Keep reaching out

 

[Strugglingmama]

Reinstatement question:

 

@Altostrata

 

on September 1st I decided to reinstate sertraline at 6mg. After 3.5 months of being drug free, I just couldn’t shake the severe anxiety. 
 

I have taken 6mg for 6 days. The first 2 days weren’t great, but the other 4, I had much relief from the wicked anxiety I had been experiencing. I have no idea if this is just coincidence, a window, or the reinstatement. 
 

Maybe benefits: less anxiety, better sleep, I actually laughed and enjoyed time with my family. 
 

negatives: some nausea first 2 days, parathesias (very mild in my left leg) which also occurred the first time I took sertraline,  feeling a bit shaky at times, and a mild headache most days.

 

just curious about your thoughts on the dose, would you say it’s worth continuing the reinstatement? Hindsight I should have started lower. 
 

thanks 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

After having been off a drug for several months it is more judicious to start with a test dose of a very small amount to see how your react before increasing the dose gradually.  However it seems like you might have been fortunate and not had a bad reaction to taking 5mg.

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose to get to full level in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  That timing fits with what you have described.

 

Please note that the idea of reinstatement IS NOT to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  At this time my suggestion would be to continue on 5mg.  Zoloft / sertraline is NOT as strong as some of the other drugs.

 

From dose-equivalents-equivalency-for-antidepressants-and-second-generation-antipsychotics

 

escitalopram       18.0mg

sertraline            98.5mg

 

You might find that 5mg Zoloft is enough to reduce the withdrawal symptoms and not cause bad side effects.

 

Playing around with your dose to try and find the ideal dose can sometimes come back to bite you.  If after a while you are still experiencing unbearable withdrawal symptoms then you could increase by a tiny amount.  If you find that the side affects are bad then you could try reducing by a small amount.

 

Keep a note of what symptoms improve and what worsens.

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

@Strugglingmama I just want to draw your attention to Alto liking my post above.

[Strugglingmama]

Hi @ChessieCat

 

i very much appreciate your reply. I had another bearable day today, not perfect but I made it through the day of work.

 

I do have 2 questions:

 

1) at what point must I make a decision to continue the reinstatement or stop before I’d run into a cold turkey problem or withdrawal problem? My issue is the headaches are seeming more intense each day. I even felt an almost brain zap like sensation today.
 

2) I have clonazepam at home. I have taken 0.25mg about once every 3 ish weeks on unbearable days. I know this should be avoided, but is there a set amount that’s considered semi- acceptable? 
 

again very much appreciate you stopping by.

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

I think it would be better to start the Zoloft / sertraline instead of taking the clonazepam.  If you have only taken the amounts you have stated, then I think it unlikely that you have developed a dependency on it.

 

Have you experienced brain zaps previously?  If you are starting to experience them now, then I think it would be better to start the sertraline reinstatement straight away because it is a withdrawal symptom.

 

Please add the clonazepam information to your drug signature.  We need to be able to see your drug history at a glance.  Thank you.

 

 

 

[Strugglingmama]

Hi @ChessieCat

 

I will update signature on my computer today.

 

To clarify I have reinstated the sertraline 6mg for 7 days. (Sept 1-7) I started getting brain zaps/headaches since reinstating. I hadn’t had them prior to that except once in December 2020.

 

my question is does this mean I’m having a bad reaction to the Zoloft ? 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Strugglingmama said:

I started getting brain zaps/headaches since reinstating.

 

What time o'clock do you take your Zoloft dose, when do the zaps occur? Are you taking any other drugs? If so, what times o'clock and dosages?

[Strugglingmama]

HI @Altostrata

 

I take sertraline at 7am. No other scheduled meds. I did take 0.25mg of clonazepam on sept 4th at 1pm once to attend a family event. On average this has been done about once every 3 weeks .
 

I have had problems with headaches since my concussion last year. I would say the brain zap was once yesterday evening (sept 7) and isolated . But I have had a dull constant headache for the last 4 days, worse in the evening. I haven’t had a headaches for over a month prior to this. 
 

thanks. I am extra stressed today because I just found out my husband has covid.  I am so far negative and am vaccinated. 

 

[Altostrata]

Do you drink any alcohol in the evening?

 

6mg sertraline may be too high for you. Are you using the liquid? Can you reduce it to 5mg?

 

It's also possible you have mild covid, sad to say. I hope your husband recovers quickly.

[Strugglingmama]

@Altostrata

 

I don’t drink alcohol so that’s not a factor. 

 

yes I am using liquid. I will try reducing to 5mg. See if that helps. I have been making my own by dissolving the contents of a capsule in water. 

 

yes my son and I get tested tomorrow. Our rapid tests at home are so far negative but I’m worried we could have mild covid that isn’t showing up yet. My husband is staying at a different home to try to avoid spreading it to us. 
 

challenging times. I’ll report back on the 5mg.

 

thanks and I truly appreciate your time. 

[Strugglingmama]

@Altostrata

 

i do have covid. I pray it will be a mild case. It’s going to make it difficult to understand how this reinstatement is going. Today will be day 12 of sertraline. Wish me luck.

 

 

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry. I hope you recover soon. I would not make any drug changes until your bout with covid is over.

[Greatful]

@Strugglingmama  How are you doing?  

[Strugglingmama]

Hi @Greatful

 

I am doing well (other than covid). Thanks for checking in. Today is day 8 of covid for me, day 11 for my husband and day 5 for my son. Husband is recovered, son seems okay, and I just have a cough and congestion. 
 

in terms of withdrawal, I hate to say it, but my past 2 weeks I have felt quite like myself and very little anxiety. I don’t know if it’s from my sertraline reinstatement or coincidence ? Today is day 18 of sertraline. I also spoke to my psychiatrist who is on board with me just staying on this tiny dose of 6mg. I honestly will stay here for 4-6 months if it allows me to have the reduced anxiety. I hate to get too hopeful. 
 

thanks for checking in. How are you?

[Greatful]

@Strugglingmama  It is good to hear you are feeling better.  It is amazing how a small amount can do so much. 

I am hanging in there. The brain is slowly healing.  I am not were I would like to be, but better than I was 2 months ago.

Keep us posted on how you do.

[Greatful]

@Strugglingmama

How are you doing?  

[Strugglingmama]

Hi @Greatful

 

thanks for checking in! I am doing okay. I have started weaning my sertraline just slightly after being on 6mg for 3 months. I need to update my profile. Currently at 5.8mg. My anxiety has been much better. Almost non-existent which is huge for me. It was my worst withdrawal symptoms.
 

Unfortunately having covid in September didn’t help my overall health. Made my POTS kind of flare and I think I’ve developed some dysfunctional breathing which I’m trying to work on with breath work. I am trying to just take it one day at a time. Enjoying time with my family, back at work full time without the dread. Now just to get my lungs and heart sorted out.

 

how are you??? 

[Greatful]

Are you doing the brassmonkey taper?  No anxiety what's that like lol🥴

Are you educating your peers on the way these drugs really work and how hard they are to get off of?😖

 

What a relief for you to stabilize so you can work on getting off.  

 

Me, I started my tapering off of Lexapro.  The journey sure is a trying one.   Up and down, round and round like a roller coaster...lol

I have some rough days but I have to keep pushing on. You remember one day at a time is our focus around here...Ha Ha🥴

 

Happy Holiday's to you and your family❤️ 

[Strugglingmama]

@Greatfulhope you are doing well with your taper and had a good Christmas ! 
 

I have shared with quite a few of my colleagues about my experience and opinion on antidepressant use. Part of me sadly thinks people don’t believe the severity of it unless you experience it yourself ! 

[Strugglingmama]

A little update from me:

 

Restarted sertraline 6.25mg on sept 1, 2021 (compounded liquid), ended up rounding down to 6mg by October 15th for easy of measuring. 

 

I also got covid (delta) sept 12, which has left me likely with long covid… I have lingering shortness of breath and my POTS (dysautonomia) has flared up. 

 

My anxiety prior to reinstating sertraline was wild and unbearable. Now I have little to no anxiety (except some mild health anxiety/annoyance around my lingering covid symptoms). 

 

Questions about tapering. I attempted to go from 6 to 5.4mg in November and by day 10 had raging headaches and feelings of unease. I decided to go back to 5.8mg and have just gone down by 0.1mg weekly instead. I am currently now at 5.3mg. 

 

I have excessive yawning (almost like trying to get deep breaths). Started post covid, but also coincided when I dropped my dose the first time. I also noticed my left eye twitching. I feel like these may be related to my lowering the dose, or covid. Or both. 

 

@Altostrata

 

I am curious about the groups opinions. I would like to wean, as I want to try to get pregnant again. However, Would you suggest holding for a while until I can get some of my long covid symptoms under control? Right now it’s really hard to know what’s what!  

 

Thank you!!

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by ChessieCat
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[Altostrata]

You've had a lot of upsets since you reinstated sertraline September 1. It's a good idea to stabilize for quite a while before tapering again. If I were you, I would postpone reducing sertraline for another month or two.

 

You're yawning, are you also sleepy? What times of day does this occur, relative to when you take sertraline? Are you taking any other drugs?

[Strugglingmama]

Hi @Altostrata

 

thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree, probably holding for a while may be my best bet.

 

the yawning is just ridiculous. I probably yawn/sigh 80 plus times a day. It’s almost like I’m yawning to get a good deep breath… which makes me feel it’s covid related. For a good few weeks post covid I wasn’t able to get a deep breath or even yawn. But then, once I could… it’s like it’s all my body wants to do. From what I read I may have a breathing pattern disorder post covid. So now I’m trying to work on breathing exercises. I am not tired at all when I yawn. Just highly annoyed. It also has caused chest pain/pressure from doing it so much. 
 

I did read some articles about SSRIs causing excessive yawning so part of me wanted to get off the sertraline and start weaning. 
 

maybe I’ll hold for a month, work on breathing exercises and hope things improve.

 

I have tried taking sertraline in the morning and at night. Currently do 8pm. Yawning seems the same no matter what time of day I take it. 
 

I had been taking ivabradine for my heart for a few weeks (oct 14- Jan 5). Stopped recently to see if that was the cause of the yawning…doesn’t appear so. I spoke to the cardiologist today, who would like me to resume the ivabradine for my heart rate issues. I can’t decide if I will or if I’ll wait it out! 
 

 

[Altostrata]

Suggest you put ALL your drugs in this Interactions Checker and discuss the results with your doctors.

 

Did reducing sertraline from 6.25mg make any difference in the yawning?

[Strugglingmama]

Hi @Altostrata

 

I actually noticed the yawning start after dropping sertraline… so I wondered if it could be a withdrawal thing.

 

And yes, all doctors and specialists are aware of meds and interactions and I’ve had ecgs to check. I just feel like less is better so I’m hoping I can get my heart rate down without restarting the Ivabradine 

 

darn covid, really complicated things!