Ktven48: Effexor taper gone wrong

[KenA]

3 hours ago, Ktven48 said:

@KenA i try and tell myself this every second of the day 

 

it’s hard not mourn my old self even though my last good day as myself was only August 27th, 2021. 
 

I miss Katie 
 

Katie is still in there and will come out one day stronger than ever before and meds free!! Believe that!!

[Altostrata]

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[Greatful]

@Ktven48

How are you today Katie, I miss Heidi too😥  But look deep inside and you will see her in there, she is slowly making her way back out into the world.  Draw strength from her, she knows you can do this.❤️

 

You made it through yesterday, that shows you that you stronger then you think. Be kind to yourself and know that you are going through WD and the awful affects of akathisia.  He is a little bit I read from the book The Antidepressant Solution by Joseph Glenmullen M.D.  

Akathesia has 2 sides or faces, outer “adjective restlessness” and inner, “subjective agitation”

 

The outer visible restlessness is caused by akathisia particularly and affects the legs and can be mild, moderate or severe.  In mild cases , patients find it difficult to sit or stand comfortably. They may adjust their posture frequently, shift their weight from one foot to the other while standing, or crossing  and uncrossing  their leg while sitting.  In moderate cases patients are more visibly jittery and fidgety, Tapping their feet on the floor or pacing.  In severe cases, patients are visibly agitated, find it difficult to sit still, and are driven to pace back and forth.

 

The inner “subjective agitation” of akathisia is, in fact, it's more dangerous side .

This drug induced state can include anxiety, tension, irritability, hostility, paranoia, rage reactions and violence.

 

“Akathisia has been described in medical journals as causing “object terror” in patients. Akathisia is unlike anything the patient has ever experienced before.  Patients report: “ I feel like I am going to explode, like the molecules inside my body are all sped up, bursting against my skin”  “ I feel like my bones are like tuning forks rattling in my body.”  I feel like I am living twenty four hours a day with the sensations of nails scratching up and down a black-board.” “ I feel like I have caffeine running in my veins.”  “ I feel like jumping out of my skin.”

 

Writing in medical journals, experts describe akathisia as “more difficult to endure than any of the symptoms for which they (patients) had been originally treated.”  

The abnormal body sensation and anxiety make it difficult for patients to think clearly, leaving them feelings of confusion and unreality.  Indeed, as part of akathisia patients may experience  depersonalization, an” out- of -body- experience” in which they feel outside themselves, observing themselves, horrified by their suicidal or violent behavior, but unable to stop themselves.  Experts refer to the effects of akathisia as a form of “behavior toxicity” of antidepressants. 

 

Really hug yourself and know that you are doing the best you can in a horrible situation❤️

[Ktven48]

@Greatful yes this is truly a nightmare experience.  I am hanging on today. My  husband stayed home with me thankfully. I am very much taking it minute by minute. Every night I close my eyes is a triumph. I can’t believe this pain. 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48  Stopping by to see how you are doing?❤️

[Ktven48]

@Greatful thanks for checking in

 

I dealt with very bad aka for the past few days.  Today it seemed to let up a little bit and I was able to get out and about with my family. I woke with minimal agitation/fear so it was a welcome relief. I’m trying not to worry about my next bad day and just accept that I was able to function and get a snapshot of my real self. Brain=healing. I really am working on letting the process be. It will not go as fast as I would like. It will be full of ups and downs - but if I can survive those worst days, maybe Ill survive until I see the light at the end of the tunnel. 
 

Unfortunately I’ve had terrible insomnia these past two nights. I’m not sure if it’s from the propranolol (it’s a very common side effect) so I am going to try and reduce it a bit to see if it lets up. 
 

What a day it would have been if I was well rested! I even contemplated a few baby names…
 

Oh well… keep trudging along. 🙏

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

16 hours ago, Ktven48 said:

but if I can survive those worst days, maybe Ill survive until I see the light at the end of the tunnel. 

Yes you did survive......Write this down and have ready for when or if the next wave comes.🥴

To see you have some optimism and look at baby names is also a good sign. 

As hard as it is at times, we really have to be more patient with our body's and let it do it's job. 

 

[Ktven48]

Feeling so down today. How do we live in this pain for so long? I yearn to enjoy life. Coming to terms with surviving is so difficult, especially around the holidays.

 

I’m so stuck because I think the Propranolol is causing insomnia but I can’t get off because my heart races like crazy. My husband and I are looking into the tapering but I’m terrified. Coming off before caused such terrible aka. 
 

But I’m unsure if insomnia is a new withdrawal symptom as well.
 

Im just living in fear and worry everyday. How to continue. Recovery seems like a dream - a very distant dream. 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

21 minutes ago, Ktven48 said:

Feeling so down today. How do we live in this pain for so long? I yearn to enjoy life. Coming to terms with surviving is so difficult, especially around the holidays.

Some days it does seem like this is going on forever.  The saying around here is learning acceptance.  Super hard to do, but staying in the day and accepting the symptoms for the day are huge in getting by.  

I can relate to the holiday's putting some pressure on feeling better.  Do you think you can say to yourself that it looks like the year things are going to be different and that's okay.  I will do the best I can in seeing the holiday through.  The more expectations you put on yourself, is I hate to say it, but can make it harder and more painful on yourself.    Then you will fall into the pit of negative thinking about yourself. 0 expectations and go with how you are feeling as to how much you can do.  I know that you have young family and this makes it harder to be less involved in the holiday.  Be kind to yourself and just do the best that you can.❤️

29 minutes ago, Ktven48 said:

Im just living in fear and worry everyday. How to continue. Recovery seems like a dream - a very distant dream. 

This is a easy trap to fall into.  You have already proven to yourself that you can do this.  Do not look so far into to the future, 1) you  will thinking with a broken brain and this will have a neg. filter.  2) no one knows the future, you would be fortune telling. All we get in life if the day we are in.  3) You will recover, do you know why, 1) your brain is healing everyday 2) time/days will go on no matter the situation, and each day that goes by it takes you with it, and you will be one day closer to the dream coming true.

 

Don't take me wrong, I totally understand the turmoil and misery that WD brings. I am in no way undermining what you are feeling.   By writing and trying to encourage you it also helps to put things into some perspective for me. 

You know the old saying practice what you preach☺️ 

 

 

 

[Ktven48]

@Greatful

thank you I feel less alone when getting some support on here

 

I don’t know how you have the strength to help others on here - you are a godsend. 
 

im trying to be accepting - maybe my baseline has improved - but in 2.5 months that seems like nothing.

 

thanks again for more words of wisdom  

[Ktven48]

@Greatful

 

how are you feeling? What are your windows like recently?  How long have you been trying to stabilize? 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

I have a long story. In a nut shell I tried to wean(what I thought was a slow taper at the time) off my Prozac with the consent of my Physic doc. this was last summer 2020 What I know believe, I went into WD.  We tried several drugs last winter and the spiral went out of control.  So in a nut shell I have been in a state of some  form of WD and maybe adverse affects since last winter.  If you are interested you can read on my thread, I have a link that is on the bottom of the post along with my signature.

 

I have had a few times where I felt almost normal in the last 6 months or so.  I can tell there has been some healing, the depression does not get so dark, the anger spells are getting less.  I guess I could say if I am not really depressed or the anxiety and panic are not horrendous I am doing okay.  The obsessing thoughts and ocd are nasty most of the time.  

But hey at least I am not worried that the birds might talk to me anymore. Ha Ha😁

These drugs are chemicals and they are very strong............

 

It is so helpful to learn to ignore your thoughts.  Sometimes not so easy but with practice you do get better.  I can also tell  you that the veterans here on SA have it right.  After awhile you learn that the thoughts, anxiety, neuro emotions what ever WD can throw at you will not hurt you.  Patience and acceptance of the whole process is hard but will make it a little easier to get through the days.  What choice do we have, fight it and be in constant turmoil or try your best to go with.  Fighting it is only going to make it that much unbearable.   Find a way to come to some sort of peace with it.  Some say we have a temporary chemical brain injury.  Would you be more patient with yourself if you knew this is something that is happening to you from the chemicals of the drugs and you really have no control over it. How can we change or fix the problem? 

 

Hang in there, I know how overwhelming this is and how frustrating it is because it takes a lot longer then we want. Crazy how they say it will take about 2 -12 weeks to feel the full benefits of the drug when you start them, but months and months for your brain to go back to it's own homeostasis after you stop.  And they hand them out like candy.  Like the old elixir of the 1800's Take it for what ever ails you.🥴  

 

[LotusRising]

@Ktven48 Hey, I just wanted to jump in say I totally echo what @Greatful is saying about not looking into the future. I am fairly new to the site and also struggle with this, but I'm slowly learning to just take one day at a time. Day by day is not easy, but it's a chance to understand and reflect on the purpose of why I'm here in this position, right now. And I know that each day is closer to feeling better. The positive is that I get to learn a lot more about myself and I get the opportunity to accept more of myself, than perhaps I ever have in the past.

 

Have you explored meditation or breathing exercises? I'm finding them my saving grace at the moment. Hang in there

[Ktven48]

Thank you @MedRN I appreciate you stopping by.

 

i am trying so hard to take it day by day but seeing such little improvement and sleep getting worse. 
 

Im not in a good spot and very very scared. 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48  This is really frustrating and can get incredibly hard.  I am having a little tougher day today too.  Let's put are focus on just getting through the day and check back with each other this evening❤️ 

[Ktven48]

Night 3 of no sleep

 

how are we supposed Heal if we’re not sleeping?

 

Suffering extreme fatigue and restlessness today. 
Feeling hopeless 

[LotusRising]

@Ktven48

 

I hear ya about the no sleep. I haven't had a decent night's sleep in weeks. But I do manage to get spurts here and there. Are you able to nap at all during the day? I think healing happens every day with or without sleep, so try not to get too discouraged by this. Your body knows what it needs and will get itself back to homeostasis. When I'm feeling hopeless, I try to talk about it with someone close to me and focus on the fact that today will pass and it will get better. Maybe even getting out for a short walk would help?

[Ktven48]

@MedRN

 

Thanks for the kind words ❤️ For some reason I’m not able to nap anymore. I think it’s just anxiety and cortisol running through my body.

 

I text frequently with my husband while he’s as work. Today after 3 days I’m finding it hard to even get in the shower. This is so hard. 

[Ktven48]

@Altostrata

when is insomnia serious?

it’s been 3 nights - if I don’t get sleep tonight that’s 4 nights. I’m already losing some Brain function / cognition.

I’m really scared 

[Ktven48]

Anyone have some words of wisdom and advice 

 

im so scared of this insomnia 

 

please help

 

I fear I will go psychotic. 

[LotusRising]

Insomnia is definitely scary, but I think your body will rest when it needs it. Do you doze at all overnight? I know you said it's hard to get into the shower, but what about a bath with some epsom salts before bed? Is there anything you find relaxing? I make sure to turn off all screens 2hrs before bed and I'm in bed coloring at least an hour before I want to fall asleep. I'm finding coloring to be super relaxing. And youtube has some binaural beats music that is nice to listen to for winding down. 

 

Just some thoughts. Crossing my fingers you get some sleep tonight

[Ktven48]

I am on 200mg of trazadone a sleeping tablet and I’m afraid it’s not working anymore. I’ve tried melatonin, Benadryl, unisom, magnesium, nothing  is working . My Brain isn’t even that anxious it just won’t shut down. 

I also don’t know if it’s a side of effect of the propranolol I’m on

 

or pregnancy insomnia 

 

my doctor said to try 300mg trazadone I’m scared too 

 

im a complete loss. 
a week ago I was getting at least 2-4 hours.

[Believer]

I know insomnia can be horrible and frightening and exhausting. When I went through it several months ago for a few months I went many nights with no sleep, it slowly resolved when I accepted it. I would try and stay as calm as I could, I played solitaire with a real deck of cards, colored, doodled, anything calming to keep my mind occupied that was tactile. It was brutal, but acceptance is key. Even lying down and focusing on my breathing, telling myself it was okay if I didn’t sleep. You WILL sleep eventually. Try not to spin yourself up. Hard, REALLY hard, I know. Acceptance is a practice on this journey that I work on every day.

 

You can do this. 🤗

[Altostrata]

@Ktven48 I'm sorry to say, a few nights of insomnia may feel terrible but does not amount to particularly severe in people who are experiencing drug adverse effects or withdrawal.

 

What drugs have you taken in the last 2 weeks? What is your current drug schedule, with dosages? What happened to propranolol? How about clonazepam?

 

Have you forgotten to take any doses, taken any off-schedule, or changed the dosage?

 

As this is a site for going off drugs, we're not in a position to discuss increasing your trazodone dose to treat your insomnia. It's very possible it has a manageable cause, such as taking your drugs inconsistently, or it could be from your pregnancy. Did you ever discuss normal insomnia during pregnancy with any of your doctors? See https://www.whattoexpect.com/pregnancy/symptoms-and-solutions/insomnia.aspx

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

 

Let's get the mods up to date on what all is going on with your meds/

You quit the propranolol and restarted it, how much are you taking?  Are you tapering that at all?

You have tried a few supplements, list them.

You up dosed the ven to 37.5 on Oct. 7th.  Does the ven help you sleep?

Ask the mods if a little increase of the ven be in the picture

Did the vaccine in March set this in motion? You mentioned the windows and wave started in April 

 

you cns is upset add a new drug may set it off more  (ie Seroquel you doc brought up)  Like I told you in are pm I would not add Seroquel.  Hopefully a mod can slow down the train of panic and downing meds. 

 

Hang in there Katie, you will be okay.❤️

[Ktven48]

I’m taking 15 mg of propranolol 

it might be causing insomnia though I have slept a few hours before on it. I have notes where I’ve taken 20mg (before I stopped) and I was able to get a few hours

so I’m so confused

 

It’s a rough situation. If I come down in dose I get bad akathisia - if I stay the course I feel my sleep will never recover. Propranolol side effect is insomnia. I feel lost and ruined that I might not be able to escape this. Me messing with this dosing is probably causing a lot of issues , I realize that. But the no sleep was scaring me. 

 

For the past 2.5 months I’ve had 2-3 hour nights of sleep. The past 7 days I’ve had a total of 1-3 hours the whole week. I’m becoming delusional and heavily suicidal. My DR wants to try and provide some relief with ambien or low dose seroquel. I don’t know what to do. I cannot go on much longer without sleeping. I know it cannot kill me but I cant survive like this. 

 

l am not stabilizing on 37.5 Ven- I don’t know whether an updose will help or ruin things more. I updosed from 5mg to 37.5 rather quickly so I don’t know if this is causing me more issues.

 

no side effects after I take my Ven dose at night. Does not make me sleepy.

200 mg Traz stopped working . It would at least put me to sleep for 1-2 hours but now nothing

i stupidly took .125 klonopin two days ago gave me 45 minutes 

 

ive tried .3 .6 & 3mg melatonin. Valerian and chamomile tea. Magnesium baths and every night I take 600mg mag citrate which slightly calms me .

 

ive started having panic attacks at about 8/9 when bedtime is coming. 
I try breathing with my husband and calms me sometimes.

I’m scared of my bed tonight what do I do? 

 

ive had bad akathisia at night recently . Burning skin restless skin crawling. At least a few days ago I could lightly relax and not sleep. I tried only taking 7mg propranolol yesterday to seee if that would help with sleep - now this is. Probably a side effect (akathisia). Or the wearing off of the klonopin 2 days ago. It’s so complicated idk which one is activating it. Or it might just be a normal cycle of akathisia I get during this withdrawal.

 

im lost and scared. Living in fear every moment

 

i regret ever adding propranolol or klonopin I feel I am ruined now with no way to heal or get bettee

[Ktven48]

It’s not just regular insomnia it’s akathisia with it. Restless agitation . Cannot calm or relax. I wish it was just regular insomnia like I’ve had before . But I toss and turn and can’t get comfortable . This morning I had to pace around my apartment and shake my arms vigorously. This is terrible torture

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, Ktven48 said:

But I toss and turn and can’t get comfortable .

 

Have you discussed the normal uncomfortable symptoms of pregnancy with anyone, or do you attribute all of your symptoms to your drug history?

 

2 hours ago, Ktven48 said:

I’m becoming delusional and heavily suicidal.

 

What do you mean by "delusional and heavily suicidal"?

 

You don't have to do act on your thoughts, that's under your control. Please be aware that if you mention being suicidal to a doctor, most likely you will end up on a serious drug cocktail. Is your condition that severe?

 

If you do not feel you have this control over your actions, please seek face-to-face help immediately. We're not able to respond to emergencies. 

 

On 10/23/2021 at 8:21 PM, Altostrata said:

....Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

 

Do you remember this? To answer your questions further, we need this information.

 

As this is a site for going off drugs, I'm not sure if we can help you. It's very possible you don't have any kind of withdrawal syndrome. We cannot treat insomnia related to pregnancy, for example.

 

It's not clear whether your symptoms might be adverse effects of the drugs you're taking, or your history of inconsistent dosing, or your practice of self-medication, or pregnancy or withdrawal from anything. Before you got pregnant, did you drink alcohol? Were you drinking in July?

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

Hi Katie, how are you holding up. 

2 hours ago, Ktven48 said:

I’m scared of my bed tonight what do I do? 

Can you make a bed on the couch and put on some white music here

https://youtu.be/LFGsZ6ythQQ

put this on quietly by your head or us headphones, 

 

First take a Epsom bath, listen to a guided meditation or soft music while in the bath, take your meds, do you feel comfortable in taking a little more magnesium. ( you state it calms you down a little bit) Remind yourself that you are not counting on sleeping, only resting, but you have to really believe it,  I will be okay with just resting quietly in the dark with the meditation music.  Tell yourself I am okay at this minute.  If your brain wants to obsess tell it thinking time is over and now it is just resting time. Refocus on the music/and or your breath.  You can do this Katie, dig down deep and trust that you can do this.❤️

[KenA]

Remember Katie, when you stop trying to fall asleep is when you usually fall asleep!! You can do this!!! You are going to be ok!! 

[Ktven48]

@Greatful

@KenA

thank you for your continued support. I’m a little calmer than earlier. Hoping for a better night. 

[Greatful]

@Ktven48

How did the night go for you Katie?

[Ktven48]

I feel so much sadness.

 

 

wish I could feel nothing but pure joy holding my son again

 

instead I hold him as a broken person . Restless and agitated waiting for the next minute to pass. It’s too much. 

[ChromeChinchilla]

I know it's hard to believe/hear this over and over when you're in such a restless, uncomfortable state, but this WILL pass.   I'm sorry I can't really offer very much more than just repeating that, but it's the truth. Hang in there.

 

Sending all the positive vibes I can your way. We are all stronger than we know and you are certainly no exception to that. 

[Ktven48]

Thank you @ChromeChinchilla

[deg1979]

@Ktven48, were you able to get some sleep yet?

 

I know exactly how you feel when you say you hold your son, but inside you are just trying to survive the agitation and inner restlessness. I have been there so many times during this journey. It makes you feel like you would cry inside, but you can't even feel like yourself enough to do that. I guess that's the DP/DR? 

 

It's so tough. I so wish for some relief for you and some sleep. Did you make a choice on a sleep aid?