jonah2001: last dose duloxetine 6 1/2 month ago

[Erimus]

I completely understand how you feel regarding age. I was on track to complete my engineering degree with first class honours and felt like I had my life lined up. Covid happened and I lost my career job opportunity, anxiety got out of control and then I made the worse decision I’ve ever made in that moment. I started anti-depressants. Ever since then it’s been hell. 
 

Sometimes life throws these awful events at us, and we have to beat them to be the best person we can be. I’m a big believer in everything happens for a reason. 
 

Unfortunately for you and me, we just got unlucky in that the choice we made turned out bad. The good news is that everything can be fixed.

 

Many people find the first year the most challenging after a fast taper. But you know what, I am 100% sure you will heal and I know that you are strong enough to beat this.

 

Keep coming on here and posting when you have good and bad days. I’ll keep checking in as well. Look after yourself and don’t punish yourself too hard when you’re having a bad moment.

[thenextguy]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:05 AM, jonah2001 said:

No, i didn't changed anything.

I hope it's just a bad wave. It's just horrible. 

Did you also experienced setbacks? 

 

Hey @jonah2001 sorry for the delay, but yes absolutely I have experienced setbacks. I'm still recovering from a reinstatement last summer and a failed bridge to prozac, but I'm definitely getting better. It's incredibly frustrating because healing isn't linear. One day/week you'll think the end is near and then the following week you're back in the terrible withdrawals. 

[jonah2001]

@Erimus Thank you so much for your answer! 

Yes, I was also on track with life! But it is how it is. 

But first off all thank you so much for helping me, with your words. 

 

Yes, my goal is just to make it through the next coming 6 month. I truly believe that it will get more manageable at that time. My physical symptoms are definitely not "cool", but for me the most aweful thing are those mental symptoms. 

 

I was a completely relaxed young man.. I was rarely angry or anything like that..

 

I really hope that I will get again, like I was before those meds! 

I know I will! 

 

I had windows where I was really feeling good! Not normal but good.

But at the moment I have definitely more waves than windows. I hope that will change over time.. 

[jonah2001]

@thenextguy

Thank you so much for your answer 🙏

Yes this unlinear healing makes me/us crazy! 

But I strongly believe that I will get more and more.. and longer windows in the future! 

 

I love them so much! 

I mostly get them 3-5 times a week for a view hours. Lasting between 1-5 hours. Sometimes even more. 

[jonah2001]

@thenextguy, @Erimus

 

I have an other question: 

 

Did anyone experienced this extrem fast cycling like me? 

I get fatigue for 20 minutes. Then it gets better but then my mood changes for 30 minutes.. I get a crying spell. Or what ever. And when that is gone 20 minutes later. I am sweating and my heart is pumping really hard. 

20 minutes later my muscles get stiff.. 

 

And this turn's the whole day. Round by round. Every 15-30 minutes one symptoms goes and is replaced by an other one. 

 

And all symptoms are so strong I can't do anything. So like I get so fatigue I have to lay down. Then energy again but I have to cry. And then I am normal.. but my muscles are so stiff I can't walk or do anything. 

 

 

 

And the fact that it changes so quickly makes me crazy.. I can't really adapt to the symptom. When it's gone the next symptoms nocks me on my but. 

 

So, When I make a 2 hours walk, I experienced every symptom I am suffering. I have that really extreme since the 7 month mark. I am not at 8 1/2 month. 

 

Before that crazy rollarcoastet I was more like the whole day fatigue. Or sad. Or what ever. 

 

and the I am getting windows. Mostly lasting for 30-60 minutes where I feel okay. But then it all breaks "down" and the symptoms cycle again. 

 

since two weeks I have "windows" where the cycling stops for like 3-4 hours

 

did somebody experienced similar crazy ****? This is really hard to live like that 😅

[jonah2001]

Doas anybody has experience with reinstatement at 8 1/2 month out? 

 

I can't go anymore. This symptom is to much for me. It's like somebody is burning my soul nonstop. 

 

I have since 6 month the hard depression.. but this is from an other world. It's like pure hell. 

 

Every minute is like hell. Non stop

 

I have no idea what I should do. 

 

8 1/2 month of fight, but this is so incredible painful. 

[thenextguy]

On 3/16/2022 at 1:14 PM, jonah2001 said:

Did anyone experienced this extrem fast cycling like me? 

 

I have not experienced cycling as rapidly as you describe, but the symptoms you're describing I have definitely felt. 

 

There's a thread somewhere on the forum about reinstating duloxetine that I can't seem to find right now. Maybe one of the mods can help. But generally the idea is to start small. Like maybe break open a capsule and take out everything except for 5 beads. Try that for a few days and see if there is any change. Keep in mind that reinstating is always a gamble somewhat. It could help, it could make things worse, or it could do nothing at all. 

[jonah2001]

@thenextguy

Thank you buddy for answering! 

I will try to go through the next month day by day, hour by hour! 

Having the strength to go through this, while your WD-Brain is "telling" you: "You will never heal", is extremely hard. But it's only my "emotional" part of my brain. And that truly has extreme power over me. 

 

But there is also my rational Part, who knows I am better in a Window and many people have gone through this process. 

 

But why should it be easy, when the emotional part of your brain is rebuilding it self.. That's probably the hardest hardest experience, a human can go through. 

 

Somebody in this forum discribed it like this: In 2010 his

 13 year old son died. The pain he experienced at that time, he experienced also 12 month after he stopped an AD, every day!

 

So this is probably the hardest challenge a human can go through.. but I will go through every day!! 

 

I will rilay on "statistics". So many people are doing better at 12-14 month.

 

So why should I not do better?! 

 

So I will go through the next month day by day. Crying spell after crying spell! 

 

[jonah2001]

Hey guys, I want to give a short update on my situation! 

 

At the end of January the mental symptoms wasn't that hard anymore. I was not feeling good/normal in a wave but when I had a window I felt really good. 

 

But in the middle of February, where things got better and better.. I got a new mental symptom. At the beginning I cames and goes but now I have it all the time. 

It's like an extreme emotional pain. It's so incredible painful.

So I am back at a stage where I am happy when I "hit the pillow" in the evening. 

 

I hope so much that it get's better! 

 

Now it's surviving AD, again!

 

 

[jonah2001]

My last Windows is now 4 weeks ago. 

I am now 8 1/2 month out.. And it's absolut hell. It's getting more worse and worse and worse. 

I have no idea why, but this WD kills me. My emotions are completely over the top. 
One minute i cry, 10 minutes later i am feeling the hardest pain you could ever imagine. Then crying spell. anger, pain.. and so on.

 

This is the lowest point since, stopping those **** pills. 

 

I will do this exactly 8 month from now. And when it isn't any better...

[jonah2001]

Hey guys, i am now dealing with those extrem emotions since 4-6 Weeks. I am experiencing crying spells, emotional pain, emotional agitation and many more. Before that episode, i didn't had those emotions.. My emotions, where more or less flat. 

 

So i ask my self: Is this probably my brain, getting back those emotions? 

 

Is it possible that when the emotions "return", they are too strong? 

 

Did somebody probably experienced similar? 

[Erimus]

@jonah2001,

 

Its a good sign that your emotions are returning. When my emotions came back it was extremely intense at first and I had uncontrollable crying. It’s definitely a sign your brain is healing. Many people find withdrawal transitions from physical suffering to more emotional pain as time progresses. Unfortunately you have to suffer through all of this in order for your brain to re-balance itself. 
 

It’s best to let all the emotion out. Think of all the pain of the last 8.5 months coming out at once. Scream, cry, shout; do whatever you need to get it out. I experienced a deep emotional pain a couple weeks back which felt like all the suffering of the last year exploding from me at once. It felt good to release it.

 

Eventually your emotions will be easier to manage and control but it takes a while. Keep going buddy.

[Erimus]

Unfortunately I think Cymbalta/Duloxetine is notoriously bad for withdrawal and post-withdrawal problems. It’s a powerful SNRI and you were on 60mg. Even though you were only exposed to it for 7.5 months it can do a lot of damage/changes. 

[jonah2001]

@Erimus

Thank you so much for your answer! 

In the past I only could feel emotions in a window. I remember when I watched a movie 2 1/2 month ago, and I got into a wave, everything was "flat".. So I didn't felt anything anymore. 

 

Now I also have emotions in a wave. But they are mostly like completely over the top. But I guess this will level out over the next couple of month. 

I am recognising that it's definitely more manageable than 4-6 weeks ago! 

 

I had some really great days/windows last week.. 

 

Our brain is healing, it just needs an incredible long time.. but I think we are slowly, slowly getting there! 

 

Thank you so much for your answer, mate!

[jonah2001]

Hey guys, I just want to give an update after 9 month after CT. 

 

The last 6-8 weeks where probably the hardest of my life! 

But I made it through. 

 

What was happening? 

In the past I was recognizing that I had "emotions" in a window but in a wave everything was flat. 

 

So it could happen when I watched a movie, I was "into it" then the wave came.. and I felt nothing. That's now not the case anymore. I can now watch movies all the time and feel anything. 

 

But sometimes my emotions are completely over the top.. it's really hard to deal with them. (Emotional pain/ extreme anger...)

But I saw improvement in the last weeks. It's definitely not linear.. but it's there. 

 

6-7 Weeks ago most of the day was absolutely brutal. One brutal emotion after the other.. It was horrible.. I was crying.. every 30 minutes. Just terrible. 

But it slowly started to get more manageable. I still have brutal days, but most of the days aren't good, but manageable. 

So I guess when I make it through the next 8 weeks. It will get even more manageable! 

 

I am still at a point where it's an everyday fight, but I see that it's definitely improving. And also in the last 4 weeks I saw improvement. 

 

I also have many times where I am laughing again! Yesterday I was laughing so hard, I had tears in my eyes! That was just wunderfull.. 

 

I am still at a point where it's an everyday fight, but I know when my crazy emotions settle down, I made it through the worst.. 

My physical symptoms are still there, and I hate them.. But when the mental ones are better, I can deal with them.. 

 

I have now days where I think about my future, hobbys and not only about WD. 

 

My family and friends are saying I am more the old Jonah they know. Having an opinion.. 

Don't get me wrong, most of the day's are still a pretty hard struggle! 

 

But I strongly believe that my mind is able to heal from this all! And that my windows will get exponentialy longer! 

I have sawn this with the symptom fatigue: 2 1/2 month ago I had 1 hour of energy. I was so amazed. 

Than 6 week's ago I had a window where I had 5 hours of energy! 

 

And now 10 days ago I had 2 days off energy(no fatigue)! 

That's +- 10 times longer than 5 week's ago.

I thought: Ohh nice the fatigue is gone.. BOOOOOM, wave nocks me so hard on my butt!!

So this is what I call exponential growth!  

I am also experiencing 1-3 times a week 30-60 minutes without any symptoms.. that's not "usable" at all, but I guess it shows that my brain is healing.. 

 

And I really guess it's an extrem amount of healing done, to let me feel normal for 60 minutes.. 

And when my brain is able to let me feel normal for 60 minutes.. it will be able to let me feel normal probably for a view hours.. and then for a day or so.. and so on. 

I know this is only theoretical.. but why should it be different, compared to the fatigue..? 

 

So I really hope that I am right, and those 60 minutes will get longer and longer. 

 

But so many people experiencing this exponential "growth", I am pretty sure it will get exactly like this!

 

So happy healing.. and I hope that I will be able to enjoy this wunderfull life as I am used to! 

It's so wunderfull so be able to watch movies again (not all the time, because I am suffering so much). 

 

I hope that i can write somedays(hopefully in the next couple of month): Hey guys, I made the corner.. I am not longer in hell! 

 

 

[Erimus]

Good to see there are signs of improvement @jonah2001. It will all be worth it in the end, and life will feel even better than it ever has done.

[jonah2001]

@Erimus 

Yeah, it helps so much knowing, that I am not standing at one point! 

It's still not good, but I am pretty sure, when I got from absolutely aweful to "I can cope with that". In 6-7 weeks. It will get better, fot sure. I hate this WD, I lost so much.. but I will go through it! 

 

How are you doing buddy?

Hope you are also seeing signs of improvement!? 

 

Greetings to you, from Germany!

[ChessieCat]

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neuro-emotions

 

[Erimus]

I’m just about managing to keep going @jonah2001, thanks for asking. Struggling a lot with muscle tension and pains from the adverse reaction to the drug, but I will not let it beat me. I can definitely relate to the feeling like I can cope with all the horrible symptoms better.

 

Like you said, it’s not good but it’s better than the original hell.

[jonah2001]

@ChessieCat Thank you!

[jonah2001]

Hey guys, I am experiencing the last weeks lot's of sadness. 

Do you guys think sadness = depression? 

Because many month ago, it was more like I felt nothing?! And I think feeling nothing is depression.. 

So probably the sadness is just a normal human emotion, and my brain is trying to recalibrate my emotions. 

 

So do you guys think, felling sadness is "healing". That it's a step further than just feeling nothing?!

[ChessieCat]

7 hours ago, jonah2001 said:

So probably the sadness is just a normal human emotion

 

People who have never ever taken a psychiatric drug experience periods of low mood etc which is just a normal part of being a human in an ever changing and sometimes very stressful world.  And the last 2 years have been very stressful related to Covid and several other major worldwide events.  And even though we are starting to get back to a more normal world, it is still very different and Covid hasn't gone a way.

 

The symptoms you mention are in the withdrawal symptom list:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Also see:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

And see the following 2 posts:

 

 

On 10/16/2017 at 12:27 PM, baroquep said:

Did a search to find more definitive information on how to differentiate withdrawal from relapse and found this:

• Are these experiences solely experiences that were around before you ever took SSRIs, or do they include new elements as well? → If any new or different elements are present, a withdrawal reaction is very likely.
• If nothing is new, are these experiences expressing exactly as they did before you ever took SSRIs, in terms of their intensity, what provokes them, how long they last, and so forth? → If there are differences, a withdrawal reaction is more probable.
• How soon after a dose reduction or drug discontinuation did new or worsening problems occur? Days, weeks, months, or longer? → “Relapse” usually takes weeks, months, or longer to show up whereas withdrawal symptoms more often begin within just days, weeks, or the first month or so.
• If taken shortly after a previous dose reduction or full discontinuation, does a reinstatement of the previous dose of your SSRI make things any better? → If reinstatement resolves newly appearing or worsening symptoms, they were most likely a withdrawal reaction.

 

[jonah2001]

@ChessieCat

Yeah, but I think it's WD related. 

Because I only feel that way in a wave, out of nowhere! And at that time I get for example the dizziness, my mood get's better and so on. 

 

So I am pretty sure it's WD related. I was never a sad person before I took the pills and COVID isn't a problem for me. 

I have no reason to be sad!

[jonah2001]

@Erimus 

Hey guys, is there anybody in this forum like me? My waves and windows come and go every 60 minutes.

So i feel like ****, than 30 minutes later it's better. And than it gets terrible again. And i have this all the time since many month.

[slowphie]

Hey man, just wanted to come and say, keep going! Duloxetine is one of the worst ADs to come off, and from everything I have read, it’s quite normal for symptoms to cycle a lot. 
 

Remember the windows, one day they will open and never close again. 
 

You got this, bleib stark! 

[Erimus]

@jonah2001I can’t comment on symptoms cycling when off the drugs (as I’m still on them sadly). But for me when it was really bad I used to cycle very often and over time the cycles became less intense and shorter in duration. 
 

Nobody even knows what normal is with these drugs and what they do to us. The people permitted to prescribe them have no idea, but that’s a debate for another day. I’ll stop myself before I get too angry haha. 
 

Your brain and body is desperately trying to return to balance in the absence of the drug and the chemical imbalance it created. The only thing we know is that things will improve with time, and lots of patience (which is hard to learn, I know).

[jonah2001]

@slowphie

Hey, thank you for your answer! 

Nice to meet somebody from Germany here. Schöne Grüße nach Berlin! 

Yeah, I think Duloxetin is a hard one. But all in all, I think all "medication" changing our minds is rubbish.. 

 

Ich werde stark bleiben, und du hoffentlich auch! 

 

 

[jonah2001]

@Erimus

Yes, I am pretty sure that those cycles will level out over time. 

It just needs a long time. 

I am recognising that my mental symptoms aren't that hard than 7 weeks ago. 

 

KenA, a m member on this forum, who made it to the other side said: That in the beginning he also had little windows. So like he was feeling okay for 20 minutes and than. 30 minutes later like **** again... 

And very slowly it leveled out for him. 

Today, a strong wave hitted me.. and everytime a strong wave hits me, my brain tells me I will never heal..

[slowphie]

Absolutely all these drugs suck, and I immensely regret allowing myself to trust the “experts” who told me they would help. 🤦🏻‍♀️
 

In the benzo community, we constantly remind each other that the horrible symptoms are just signs that our nervous systems are trying to heal, and the windows are the results of that healing. Eventually the waves will stop. When I get scared, I remind myself that I have faith in my brain, and I repeat this to myself, “I have faith in my brain, I have faith in my brain, I have faith in my brain.” Keep the faith, your nervous system is working 24-7 to get you back to the person you truly are. 😊

[jonah2001]

It's terrible, isn't it. 

I get terrible Neuro-emotions every 60 minutes. Without break. 

One cycle after the other. 

One Rage episode after the other. Pain after pain. Mental akathisisa after the other. I don't have any break from this. 

I will exactly go through this 3 month from now. 

When it's than not better I will end my life. 

Don't get me wrong guys, I love my life, my family, everything. 

 

But this is not livable. There is no chance I can go through this for longer than 3 month anymore. Every 60 minutes. Without any break. 

It's not pain, it's like somebody is killing you, but even stronger. 

It's not anger, it's like I have to punsh on something. It hurts so much, there is nothing more painful in this world. 

I had an motorcycle accident, the pain from that is a joke against this. 

It's not livable. My whole body was bleeding after this accident, many broken bones... it's a joke against this pain. And it comes every 60 minutes.

 

I know evertime when my tinitus gets louder, that I will have a mental breakdown in 5 minutes. 

 

Sorry guys that I am writing this, but I can't go anymore. 

 

I was completely live loving young man with dreams, future friends and many more. 

I can't go anymore. 

 

3 month from now on. 

 

When I see a little bit of improvement, I will go on! 

 

But when not: Sorry brain, but it's not your fault.. But I can't go like this anymore.

 

Thank you big Pharma, for ruining my life! 

From an live loving young man, to a person laying on the floor and screaming every 60 minutes. Non stop. 

No sleep, no relief... nothing.

[slowphie]

Hey Jonah, this is so sad to read dude. Especially because you’re so young and should have your whole life ahead of you. 
 

I know the suffering must feel eternal and endless right now, but please remember that the inevitable outcome for everyone is healing at some point. It is extremely unfair that it takes so long for some people, but you will get there. 
 

Please keep hanging on, no matter how long it takes. All you have to do is survive until it gets easier, and never ever lose faith in your brain. I promise you it will get easier - are you part of the “Cymbalta hurts worse” FB group? I’m certain you would get support and hope there. 
 

[Erimus]

@jonah2001Its horrible but a lot of people find saying they’ll give it “x months” helps them to get through the worst days. I used to say to myself “just get to 6 months on the same dose and it’ll be better”. Now I’m here it’s not great but it’s better; I say to myself “get to 9 months and it’ll be better”. The first year will be the absolute worst of it. Eventually you’ll turn a corner and your baseline will improve a little, so your down moments aren’t as bad.

 

You say you’re struggling with sleep, is that every night? Or some nights do you sleep a little better? Are you able to get outside to walk or even just in your back garden for some light? I find sticking to a strict morning and evening routine helps me to maintain sleep most of the time. You have to get up and go to bed at the same time every day, even when you feel rubbish.

 

Keep hanging on buddy.

[jonah2001]

@slowphie

@Erimus

Thank you so much for your answer. I am sitting here with tears in my eyes. 

My family think's I am crazy. But I can't stop the crying. I can't stop the pain wich is so brutal I couldn't even talk. 

 

I have to go every day in the woods, because my parents are angry when I am crying all the time without brake. 

 

2 years ago I was the leader of my football team, had many friends. Was a funny guy.. everything was perfect. 

I only had that backpain because of my accident. In this ******* doctor gave me those pills! 

I only took them for 4 month. And Tapered for 3,5 month. 

 

It was enough to destroy me. I only sleep bad, when a hard wave comes. 

 

My parents want to throw me out of our house. The say: Start your studies and ignore your "strange symptoms". 

 

It's just a living nightmare.  

 

While I am writing this, I have so much pain it's hard to write this message. 

 

[slowphie]

Oh man Jonah, my heart breaks for you. I know this feels so so lonely, but you’re not isolated in this experience. I have so many benzo friends who’s families just don’t understand. I’m glad you’re close to the woods, that must at least feel peaceful. 
 

Feel free to DM me whenever you need bro. I can also put you in contact with some withdrawal friends who have families that don’t really understand. Sometimes it helps to have people you can talk to who “get it”. 
 

Also, I had many days of crying a lot, hell I was crying for about two hours the other day because I’m so sick of having such bad vision. Du bist nicht allein. 💙

[Erimus]

Recovery is extremely difficult on its own, but it’s twice as hard fighting the symptoms as well as those around you who don’t believe you. I know what it’s like, it’s a lonely road when you can’t explain to people what’s happening. They think you’re mad but deep down we know the truth about what these drugs have done to us, nobody else will ever understand that. It took many months before my mother understood what I was saying to her and I’ve actually managed to completely change her mindset and beliefs regarding the drugs. It’s horrible when people just want to send you off to some so-called specialist to be ignored, patronised and/or filled with more drugs.

 

If you’re sleeping for the most part that is a good sign, things will definitely improve with consistent sleep. Keep getting into nature every day as well. I’m sorry your parents aren’t understanding. Some people find it useful to print out side effects and other people’s horrible experiences to show that it is real.

 

We’re all guilty of thinking about our life before drugs, unfortunately we have to push aside those thoughts and hold on to the fact one day we will be back there again.

[slowphie]

I just had a thought, perhaps you could persuade your parents to watch “Medicating Normal”? There should be a version with German subtitles, that might help.