Possum's Paxil Recovery

[possum]

It’s probably a good thing that this site was closed when I chanced upon it, because it enabled me to spend the last month and a half reading pretty much all the “Important Information” as well as lots of other people’s stories. I’ve come full circle – I hesitated to go on Paxil because I was terrified of the side effects, and now I’m hesitant to go off of it because I’m terrified of the withdrawal effects. To say that I am hyper-vigilant about my body and any potential symptoms is an understatement. That’s a huge part of my anxiety.

 

Anyway, I was prescribed Paxil (20 mg) and Wellbutrin (150 mg) by a now-retired psychiatrist at least 25 years ago (guessing). I’ve always been anxious and the anxiety was complicated by the occasional panic attack. I’m 71 now so I spent pretty much all of my middle-aged years on SSRIs. 

 

Since most of the stressors that prompted me to go on them in the first place are no longer in my life, and since we’ve all learned so much about how SSRI’s mess us up, I decided it’s time to taper off them. I spoke to my GP, who, as I suspected, was not really knowledgeable about how to properly taper. He suggested alternating 20 mg and 15 for a while, etc. When I told him about the 10% taper, he asked me how I would get such precise measurements. I procured all the necessary equipment for liquifying the Paxil, armed myself with syringes (it helps to have a cat!) and on January 22, the Lunar New Year, I did my first dose reduction to 18 mg. I’m now five days in and, so far, haven’t really felt anything, except possibly a wee bit more fragile than usual.

 

Reading this forum is both frightening and exhilarating. I can’t believe the amount of work the mods have put into it, and I am incredibly grateful to have this vast array of knowledge at my fingertips and so many understanding people in my corner. My partner is supportive but, being the least anxious person I know, he just doesn’t “get it.” I know it can be done, but I am admittedly very scared about taking this step. I’m very suggestible and all of the “what ifs” come crawling into my bed with me at night, keeping me awake. What if my IBS comes back? What if I can’t handle the nausea and stomach issues? What if I have to take this stinking drug for the rest of my life? Which is kind of nuts, because I’ve survived quitting smoking, open heart surgery, and two hip replacements! But I suspect I’m a lot older than most of the folks here, and have been on this drug for a really long time. It all feels quite daunting.

 

Anyway, as I said, I’ve read a lot of the information here and just have a couple of quick questions:

 

-  Is there any correlation between how lousy you felt getting on the drugs to how lousy you feel getting off of them?

 

-  If, after two weeks, I am still feeling stable and not experiencing WD symptoms, do you think it would be safe to take the next step in my taper? (another 10%) Since we all react differently, I thought I might have a general idea of how things are going by the two week mark. Of course, I’ll hold at 18 if I’m not feeling stable.

 

 

 

Edited January 27 by Gridley

[Gridley]

@possum

 

You've done a great job preparing and it will stand you in good stead as you taper.  I'm 74 and wanted to respond to say tapering is doable in the "golden years."  I know it feels daunting, but I've managed to go off 20mg Lexapro (a high dose) after many years on the drug (see my signature).

 

1 hour ago, possum said:

 

-  Is there any correlation between how lousy you felt getting on the drugs to how lousy you feel getting off of them?

 

 

I'm not aware of any correlation.

 

1 hour ago, possum said:

 

-  If, after two weeks, I am still feeling stable and not experiencing WD symptoms, do you think it would be safe to take the next step in my taper? (another 10%) Since we all react differently, I thought I might have a general idea of how things are going by the two week mark. Of course, I’ll hold at 18 if I’m not feeling stable.

 

I would definitely wait the 4 weeks.  In the future if you want to see if you can lessen the time between drops,  you can consider it, but not now.  You don't know enough yet about your response to the taper.  Some people have to go longer than the four weeks.  Here are the varieties of taper you can consider (you may already have read these):

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

 

The Brassmonkey Slide is a way of making micro-taper reductions weekly, as opposed to a larger reduction once a month. This is how I did my Lexapro taper.

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method of Micro-tapering

 

This link is specifically about tapering Paxil.

 

Tips for tapering off paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat)

 

These links describe the healing process.

 

Brain Remodelling

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

I think you will do great.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27 by Gridley

[possum]

Thanks, Gridley, for your response. It’s great to hear I’m not too old to pull this off! I appreciate your advice to wait the full four weeks before attempting my next cut. That was me, being anxious to get this over with…bad idea! Tomorrow will be one week of my first 10% cut and so far, so good. With the exception of some wild dreams, I’m doing ok. 

 

I wonder, is it possible that the 150 mg of Wellbutrin I am still taking is acting like a “bridge” to help with the WD? Because once I’m off the Paxil, I will want to get off the Wellbutrin as well.

[Gridley]

3 hours ago, possum said:

is it possible that the 150 mg of Wellbutrin I am still taking is acting like a “bridge” to help with the WD?

Hard to say but could be.

[littlebird]

On 1/27/2023 at 6:15 AM, possum said:

-  Is there any correlation between how lousy you felt getting on the drugs to how lousy you feel getting off of them?

Interesting question! Personally, it's been random. Also, from person to person each drug can be different, so this is tough to answer! With some meds that made me feel lousy, there was relief in coming off of them. Sometimes there were side effects from getting off, but the relief was really helpful. Welcome, glad you're here!

[Fifree]

How are you going there @possum? I hope your taper is still comfortable and that you’re able to get out for your walks. 

[possum]

Thanks for asking, @Fifree. I figured it was about time for an update so here goes: I started my taper to 18 mg on 1/22 so it's been about ten days. Thus far, my symptoms, such as they are, have ranged from 0 to 1, with 1 being a sort of annoying headache in the background and a little bit of vague transient nausea. This could be a factor of the cut, or it could be the "new normal" for someone who refuses to believe I'm 71. In any event, it's nothing unmanageable and if I get out of my own head and do something to occupy myself other than dwelling on my symptoms, I could pretty much ignore them. So...half of me is just waiting for the other shoe to drop, half of me thinks, hey, maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones and half of me thinks, right here, right now, at this particular moment, I'm ok. Wait, that's three halves. See what these damned drugs do to our brains?? 

 

I'm also dealing with some heart issues -- the calcium channel blocker I was on for some mild arrhythmia has pooped out and I'm getting these crazy extra beats all the time. My cardiologist (cursed be his name) put me on a beta blocker, Metoprolol, and my heart rate went down to the low 40s and at one point hit 39. I did a little research and learned that the Paxil, a 2D6 inhibitor, made the Metoprolol work overtime and there's a major warning about taking them together on pretty much every drug interaction site. He had a list of everything I'm taking, but I guess didn't bother reading it. I've been trying to reach someone in his office for two weeks and finally gave up and found a new cardiologist. I went back to the Verapamil and need to figure out what to do next. 

 

So that's me in a nutshell. No walking today -- it's too cold out. Ah, to be in Oz.

 

 

[littlebird]

52 minutes ago, possum said:

half of me thinks, hey, maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones and half of me thinks, right here, right now, at this particular moment, I'm ok

 

Love this! I've found that if I focus on potential side effects, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy or an anxiety spiral. There's a lot of power in telling yourself you're a lucky one and you're ok, your nervous system responds accordingly to what we're thinking. Love these hopeful, peaceful thoughts of yours. Those will carry you through, nurture those! You're doing great.

 

The heart stuff sounds beyond scary, I'm so sorry you're going through health issues while you're working with meds. Hope things even out soon and you feel better!

[Fifree]

6 hours ago, possum said:

So...half of me is just waiting for the other shoe to drop, half of me thinks, hey, maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones and half of me thinks, right here, right now, at this particular moment, I'm ok.

I think we probably all have three halves during this process - drugged me, drug free me and WD me. I’m really glad to hear you’re holding steady. 
 

I think finding a new cardiologist is a very good call. It’s unbelievable how we have to dutifully fill in all those forms in the waiting room, listing medications we’re on, only to have interactions sometimes ignored. 

 

All the best to you. Were at a similar point in our journey (I’ve spent all my middle years on SSRIs too) so I’m really cheering for you. 

[possum]

8 minutes ago, Fifree said:

 

All the best to you. We’re at a similar point in our journey (I’ve spent all my middle years on SSRIs too) so I’m really cheering for you. 

Thanks, @Fifree. I feel the same — cheering for you as well. 

[possum]

Two weeks into my first taper and nothing much has changed. I’d say my symptoms are 0 to 1, and manifest almost entirely as an annoying headache. Depending on what my body says, I'll continue hanging out at 18 mg for another two weeks and do my next cut. I remain cautiously optimistic. 😏

[Fifree]

Very glad to hear that it’s going well

[possum]

I have not been very active here but have been reading a lot and I have to admit, a lot of what I read scares the $%I *&(* out of me. I am trying hard to not catastrophize or worry about what might happen during the weeks ahead. Anyway, today was the four week anniversary of my first Paxil cut. With the exception of the first week or so, I've had no withdrawal effects and what I did have, basically a little light-headedness and headache, was manageable. I understand that as the doses get smaller, things may get rougher so it was with a little bit of trepidation that I bumped down to 16.2 mg. Guess I'd better update my signature! 

[littlebird]

42 minutes ago, possum said:

a lot of what I read scares the $%I *&(* out of me. I am trying hard to not catastrophize or worry about what might happen during the weeks ahead

 

Totally makes sense, please don't let anxiety futuretrip you out too hard, because this:

 

42 minutes ago, possum said:

With the exception of the first week or so, I've had no withdrawal effects and what I did have, basically a little light-headedness and headache, was manageable.

 

This is a really good sign. Everyone is different, and please remember that people are likely to reach out to a site like this when they're having worst case scenarios. Have you found anything that's helped with these fears? They're real, and valid, and also probably absolutely no fun to think about. 

 

When I find myself doing a lot of worst case scenario thinking, sometimes I balance it out with best case scenario imagination time. Hope you find happy thoughts soon!

[possum]

Today I saw a doctor — a gynecologist, actually — who was 100% on board with the 10 percent taper. I was gobsmacked. The first doctor I’ve seen who “gets” it. Made my day. I have been holding at my second reduction (to 16.2 mg) for an extra couple of weeks, partially to be extra sure that I was ready for another cut, partially to get through a stressful couple of weeks without worrying about WD on top of everything else, and partially due to (groan) fear of the next step. I’ve been doing really well, all things considered, but each time I approach a reduction, the fear of WD symptoms comes back. My next couple of weeks are blessedly empty so I’m going to do my next reduction tomorrow. I can’t help but worry that THIS time, it’s gonna’ be awful. Gotta rewrite that script! Wish me luck. 

[Gridley]

14 minutes ago, possum said:

Wish me luck. 

Sounds like you're doing great, Possum.  Taking it nice and slow is the ticket.  

[Mango]

I couldn’t be happier for you Possum. I’m 75 and on all manner of antidepressants most of my adult life. Sorry to say!

in my younger years it seems like I’d could get off them pretty easily, at least WD symptoms must have been minor. In fact, I had no idea of dangers of withdrawing too quickly. 
I’m so glad that you found this site before starting your Paxil tapering. That should make a huge difference in avoiding serious WD symptoms and bode well for you being able to get off SSRIs once and for all. 
I’m hoping I live long enough to be drug and WD free. I tapered off Paxil in 2020 using Tapering strips from the Netherlands. Like I said, I had no idea that you had to go slow and steady. Off Paxil December 2020 and in 2021 my world fell apart and I’m still symptomatic. 
So bravo for you! 
Don’t let those lies that anxiety tells us prevent you from continuing your well thought out taper. I really appreciate seeing a success with someone in my age group so thank you for sharing your recovery with us. 

[LostInCanada]

So happy you can be as stress free as possible for this next cut. Like Gridley said nice and slow. ♥️ We are here for you.

[Fifree]

Great to see an update from you @possum  You’re taking it slow and steady so it should all be fine. All the best with your next cut!

[possum]

Thanks, all, for your nice notes. Went to 14.6 mg Paxil last night and the sky didn't fall. I'm cutting a 20 mg pill in half and taking half a pill with 4.6 ml of my homemade liquid. I have my symptom rating journal at hand, but so far today, nothing to report. I'm wondering if 4 days in the fridge is too long for my "Paxil juice" -- I'd been doing 3 days but hate to waste the stuff. I saw the new electrophysiology cardio guy the other day. He looked about 12 but was very attentive. At this point, he doesn't want me to mess around with any other drugs, so I am staying on the Verapamil, a calcium channel blocker, at least for now. It will not interact with the Paroxetine. In a couple of weeks, I will be fitted out with a loop recorder, a tiny device that is inserted under the skin of the chest, which keeps a watchful "eye" on my heart rhythms. It should be able to tell, once and for all, if my occasional funky heart rhythms are a result of afib. Since I was dealing with Covid, a hip replacement, and general stress when I was having the worst of the symptoms, it's possible that this gadget will show that things are okay, cardio-wise. At least that's what I'm hoping. I've also started taking magnesium (added it to the signature) -- not only is it calming, but it's good for heart stuff as well. I'll be checking in over the next few weeks with updates. 

[LostInCanada]

I wouldn't push the liquid to 4 days just based on everyone's experience here. I hate filling my prescription and giving my $ to a drug I hate but better to err on the side of caution. Glad you are doing well.♥️

[possum]

Thanks @LostInCanada. I did read that some people are doing 3-4 days but I guess it's better to err on the side of caution. I'll stick to 3 days and curse Big Pharma.

 

[LostInCanada]

I'll be cursing them with you.👍

[possum]

Well. I guess the relatively easy ride I was having has come to an end. For my first couple of cuts, I did really well  — my only symptoms were a nagging headache and a feeling that if I moved too fast, it would take a second for my head to catch up with the rest of me. This tended to happen for a few days starting around Day3. This last cut, to 14.6 mg, was going along just fine for a week. On the seventh day, I started feeling emotional, possibly because my partner left for a two week trip (I stayed home with the ancient cat). So, I was feeling a bit weepy. About 3 days later, full blown panic attack. Lots of nausea and anxiety to the extent that I called a friend to come stay with me. I have long been emetephobic (terrified of throwing up) so nausea is NOT my friend. I think the aftermath of these attacks is almost as bad as the actual attack. No appetite, still nauseated, and hoping this gets better soon. I suspect the stress of being alone, plus the change in seasons, had something to do with this emotional hurricane. I just hope it ends soon. Needless to say, I’m planning to wait until things level out before even considering the next cut. In the meantime, I have ginger chewy bits, ginger tea, and ginger beer on hand. And, a physician prescribed anti-nausea med that knocks me out, which I have only had to use once. But on the bright side, it's finally spring.  

[LostInCanada]

@possumsorry to hear this. I am riding the wave at the moment and not happy about it. I have to learn acceptance. What did the doctor give you for nausea? I am dealing with major nausea ATM but most remedies cause issues. Been doing lots of ginger.

[possum]

@LostInCanada Yeah, I've been following your journey. The doc gave me Promethazine (AKA Phenergan) which, I suspect, is a souped-up Benadryl. I got it when I had COVID and had a few tablets left. I took one that horrible first night. 
 

[LostInCanada]

I looked it up and got this 

rxlist.com

promethazine oral and paroxetine oral both increase causing a dangerous abnormal heart rhythm.

 

 

[possum]

@LostInCanada Oh, lovely. (Groan). Guess I won’t be doing THAT again! I checked all my other meds but didn’t bother to check that one. 

[LostInCanada]

@possumat least you got one good night out of it. Just infuriates me that your doctor and pharmacist didn't catch this. Like usual.

[possum]

It is amazing how many times I have had to recite my meds list, only to have some doctor prescribe something that interacts badly with Paroxetine — heart meds, nausea meds, etc. In most cases, a dosage adjustment works but they don’t even seem to know that! We really do have to be our own advocates. 

[Sunflower414]

Hi @possum I would say wait the 4-6 for sure. I am getting off of Paxil, and was prescribed SSRIs around the same amount of time as you. I can only tolerate the 2-3% cuts and wait around 5 weeks. Take it easy. It sounds like your tapering process has been smooth, you are lucky/smart to have started with the 10% taper! 

[possum]

Yes, @Sunflower414, four weeks seems to be the sweet spot at this point in my process. After three or four days of crappy symptoms, everything evened out and I’m back to feeling like myself again. (my “new” self, that is!) I had a music job in New York City last week and spent a glorious morning in Central Park. I felt absolute joy. The sun was shining, the cherry blossoms and redbuds were in bloom, I nearly cried at how beautiful it was. Joy unblemished by SSRIs is something I haven’t felt in years. A taste of things to come? Oh and I got my little heart monitor installed under my skin and so far it hasn’t picked up any dangerous rhythms so that is a big relief. Trying to keep things as stress free as possible. 

[Sunflower414]

That’s amazing @possum stay the course. You’re doing amazing. I found watching The Lovely Grind on YouTube helpful (he got off of Paxil). What made you decide to taper? 

[possum]

43 minutes ago, Sunflower414 said:

That’s amazing @possum stay the course. You’re doing amazing. I found watching The Lovely Grind on YouTube helpful (he got off of Paxil). What made you decide to taper? 

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check it out. It was actually this site that made me decide to taper. The drug had pretty much pooped out and I'd been wanting to get off it for a number of years but was chicken. I found survivingantidepressants around November of last year. The board was closed to new members, but I read everything I could find and finally decide to start tapering. I suspect I'll be able to get down to 10 mg by 10% increments but when I get to the lower doses, I might have to change my taper, depending on how things go. 

[Sunflower414]

Thinking of you and cheeering for you @possum

[possum]

Guess it's time for an update. On May 9, I dropped to 13.1 mg of Paroxetine. So far, I haven't had any issues at all with the change. (Hoping I didn't just "jinx" myself!) I'll still give myself four weeks from the 9th before my next drop. The big news this month is that after having had a cardiac loop recorder implanted, the Afib I suspected I had has been confirmed. This means I need to go on anti-coagulants and back on Metoprolol, a beta blocker. JUST as I'm trying to get OFF of drugs, damned if they don't give me two more. After doing a ton of research, my suspicions were confirmed that as a potent 2D6 inhibitor, Paroxetine ups the level of Metoprolol in one's system between THREE and SIXFOLD!!! And the doctors haven't got a clue. I may have mentioned this before, but the last time I tried this med, my heart rate dropped to 39 beats per minute and I moved through my day like a drunken rhinoceros. It was horrible. So this time, I think I've found the sweet spot -- half of a Metoprolol seems to be just fine with my current Paroxetine dosage. I have a nice heart rate of 59 beats per minute at the moment and my blood pressure is a-ok. I'd be interested in hearing from others still on SSRIs who are taking anti-coagulants. How are you handling them? Is there someplace else on SA where I might post this question?