Narcissus: just another Effexor story

[tezza]

Hi Narc,

 

I'm sorry you haven't been feeling well! I'm having cycling windows and waves but the windows are bigger than the waves, thankfully, I think?! The waves started after drama on top of drama.

 

I really hope you feel better soon. I agree with Jemima and Rhi, you seem to be able to remain cool and collected in spite of WD. You still offer lots of encouragement and good advice. I've had trouble finding words to express myself with.

[Narcissus]

I've had trouble finding words to express myself with.

 

I often have trouble too.  Thanks for the kind words tezza.

[Narcissus]

Still feeling the doubled dose today.  Yesterday was an interesting day.  There were pockets during which most of my symptoms were totally absent.  There were also two different one hour periods where I felt that terrible tension from the earlier days of withdrawal.  I also felt extremely stupid throughout the day, and was hardly able to do anything mentally but play video games.  But something did return that gave me hope, a marked improvement on one of the many levels of symptoms I have in withdrawal.  A very mixed bag, but not as bad as you'd expect for an accidental double dose on what must be a very sensitized nervous system.  

 

Given this experience, I'm reconsidering updosing, but at a much slower rate obviously.  I am a little concerned that this accidental updose brought me some relief.  It's been more than 7 months now, and it worries me that I can still benefit from taking more Effexor.  What does this mean in terms of my recovery?  I'm haunted by the irrational fear that 150 mgs of Effexor is the only thing that brings me back to "normal", and that I simply can't adjust to anything less. I don't think this is right though, as my withdrawal appears to have been caused not by the reduction of the drug but by the speed at which I made the reduction.  Thinking about this is difficult right now, and yet I still have a lingering druggy sense of well being from yesterday.  There is something ingenuine about it that makes me suspicious, but then again, the entire withdrawal experience has often seemed ingenuine.  

 

Did the higher dose of Effexor simply stomp out some of my anxiety or did it make an improvement in my symptoms?  Am I losing progress by going back upward, crawling back into the Inferno just to have to scale its craggy cliffs again later on?  Am I so desperate for hope that I've convinced myself that yesterday was actually pleasant?  And finally, do I just miss the false electrical warmth of my uterine Effexor cocoon?  

 

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!  

[Narcissus]

Ugh, now I just feel like crappy and slightly crazy.

[Jemima]

I'm sorry that you're feeling so rotten.

 

Probably the best thing to do is hold steady rather than jangle your nervous system with another change. You've got an awful lot of sharp ups and downs in your history.  You can always updose in another day or two if that seems to be the wise thing to do.

 

Judging from your dosages, I'm guessing that you're on the tablet version of Effexor.  Is that right?  If so, I'm wondering if it might be wise to switch to the capsule variety so you can make increments and decrements that are a lot smaller.  I'm thinking that a small updose (5 mg. or so) might be a better idea than going all the way up to 150 mg. again. 

 

Just my idea.  I'm appalled at how difficult it is to get off Effexor and Pristiq.

[Altostrata]

Please don't blame yourself if an updose makes you feel better.

 

Are you taking Effexor XR in tablets?

[basildev]

Hope you're feeling a little better today Narc:)

[Narcissus]

Ah jeez, thanks for the support everyone.  The last few days have been extremely rough, it seems that my body did not appreciate that double dose at all.  The first day there was some pleasantness mixed into all the chaos, but the past two days have been completely hellish.  I apologize for my very weird and frantic post, and for my absence these past few days.  I'll return when things settle down a bit.  

[Jemima]

No apologies necessary.  There was nothing weird about your post, and feeling a bit panicky about taking a double dose of meds is certainly understandable.

 

When you're up to some hard thinking, please considered going on the kind of Effexor that allows for tapering more gradually.  I think it's XR, the capsule with beads inside.

 

Other than that, please be gentle with yourself, and get well.

[basildev]

Hey Narc,

 

you remember a while back I posted about taking the double dose?

 

Well it really knocked me around too and it took a good while to settle down (didn't help that I'd been poisoning my system with Valium, but that's another story..)

 

You offered me some words of support at that time so I wanted to remind you that we're very sensitive to the slightest alterations in our meds - but it WILL settle down again.

 

Take care

[Narcissus]

Thank you Jemima, I should've mentioned earlier that I'm already on Effexor XR.  Going up to 150 was a freak accident.  My memory was particularly hazy a few days ago and as I prepared for bed I couldn't remember if I'd taken my Effexor or not.  Feeling very unsure I decided to take it.  When I awoke in the morning it was immediately clear that I'd make a mistake.  I think next time I find myself in that predicament I'll just risk skipping my dose.  Far better to miss a day than to double up it seems.  Yes I remember that Basildev, thank you for the encouragement.  Things are already improving a bit, I imagine that they'll continue.  I hope you are well.

[Rhiannon]

Sadly, missing a day sux for a while too...

 

Maybe you could keep a checklist or diary or something and just make a tick mark whenever you take your dose, so you'll always have a record.

 

Or if it happened again, just take half a dose.

 

Just thinkin.

[Hudgens]

Narcissus, I have the same problem, every once and a while not being sure if I've taken a medication or not.  

I solved the problem by counting the number of pills on any given day and writing that number and the date on the jar.

Then if I can't remember if I took it or not, I can count what's left in the jar and see if it comes out right according to how many should be left up to that particular day. I haven't used this method for the Effexor since tapering but still use it for my BP medicine. It's saved me from a lot of worrying on more than one occasion.

[tezza]

Hi Narc,

 

I hope you're feeling better by now. I once took a whole tablet plus the almost half a tablet that I'd tapered down to. I had a really good day the next day. It felt so good in the middle of harsh WD to have such a day.

[Narcissus]

Narcissus, I have the same problem, every once and a while not being sure if I've taken a medication or not.  

I solved the problem by counting the number of pills on any given day and writing that number and the date on the jar.

Then if I can't remember if I took it or not, I can count what's left in the jar and see if it comes out right according to how many should be left up to that particular day. I haven't used this method for the Effexor since tapering but still use it for my BP medicine. It's saved me from a lot of worrying on more than one occasion.

 

That's a good idea, maybe I'll try that.  I always take my pill right before bed, but sometimes if I'm distracted by something right around when I take it I become flustered and can't remember whether I've taken it.  Taking it is so automatic it's easy to forget, even just moments afterwards.Tezza, how did you feel after that first day?  There was a bit of comfort during the first day, but things are quite rough now.  I suspect it'll take me a week or so to recover.

[abir]

when i reinstated with 25mg (which turned out to be too high for me), i did it to get rid of my horrible anxiety that used to start at 5am.. i took that first pill at night and i did not have any anxiety at all the next day - i was so happy and relieved - but then it gave me other problems that were even worse than the anxiety... so i guess the initial relief does not necessarily mean that dose is what we needed...

i hope you will start feeling better soon

[basildev]

Narc,

 

remember it takes about 4-5 days for the drug to reach steady state in the blood.

 

I reckon you'll be back to normal in about a week or so.

[Karma]

I use a pill case.  Even though I use liquid effexor I use the pill case to keep track of whether I've taken my evening dose ... after I take the liquid I flip the pill case open ... I do the same thing in the morning.  If the case is flipped open then I took my meds ... if it is closed then I most likely haven't taken my dose (I also get distracted and sometimes forget to flip the lid), but I do find that it keeps me pretty honest in taking my doses.

 

I'm also on alprazolam (xanax) and I do the same thing with it so I don't miss a dose. 

 

Similarly, to Hudgens, for my thyroid that I dose 4 times a day ... I know how many pills are in the bottle for the week that I take to work.  If I can't remember if I've take a dose I lay out my pills for the rest of the week and can tell if I missed a dose or not.

 

I hope youn feel better soon.

 

Karma

[Narcissus]

A pill case!  I don't know why that never occurred to me.  Thanks Karma.

[Narcissus]

Reemerging from the black cloud, will return to moderator duties soon.

[tezza]

 

Narcissus, I have the same problem, every once and a while not being sure if I've taken a medication or not.  I solved the problem by counting the number of pills on any given day and writing that number and the date on the jar.Then if I can't remember if I took it or not, I can count what's left in the jar and see if it comes out right according to how many should be left up to that particular day. I haven't used this method for the Effexor since tapering but still use it for my BP medicine. It's saved me from a lot of worrying on more than one occasion.

 That's a good idea, maybe I'll try that.  I always take my pill right before bed, but sometimes if I'm distracted by something right around when I take it I become flustered and can't remember whether I've taken it.  Taking it is so automatic it's easy to forget, even just moments afterwards.Tezza, how did you feel after that first day?  There was a bit of comfort during the first day, but things are quite rough now.  I suspect it'll take me a week or so to recover.

I went back to feeling the same as before. A pill case is a good idea!I'm glad the black cloud is lifting off you!

[Narcissus]

I spoke too soon.  After that day of improvement I immediately sunk back into the mire of symptoms stirred up by that double dose.  It's been 9 days now.  Will return when things improve.  

[basildev]

Sorry to hear Narc.

 

Hope you feel better soon

[Rhiannon]

Thinking of you, Narcissus. Hang in there. This too shall pass.

[Narcissus]

11 days since accidental double dose.  An intense feeling of aggravated emptiness in my body and a profoundly low level of energy.  A feeling of being dead to everything, hardly aware of the world around me.  Strange and tense mixtures of apathy and anxiety, extremely hard to describe.  The only thing that seems to provide any measure of relief is eating, I have to struggle not to overeat.   Unable to read, watch films, walk or do anything of interest.  Back in hell again.

[Narcissus]

Feeling very distraught.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Hi, Narcissus!

 

I just finished reading your intro and I am so feeling for you. I wish I had any good words of support to give, I am still so new at this whole miserable experience that I am at a loss as how to support a fellow sufferer. All I can say is that it definitely does not last, the terribleness of feelings, but as I have recently begun to feel worse after feeling better, I do know that things change. It is just not very noticeable moment to moment, but more in retrospect. I am pulling for you and the one thing I know for sure is that things really do change, we just don't seem to be very much in charge of when.

 

Hugs, heartfelt hugs!

[Narcissus]

Full of a kind of terrible mounting energy I went for a walk with the dog.  This quickly became a kind of ferocious march, I felt I was being carried off by something into the night (probably my own adrenaline).  The world around me seemed to be somehow hostile and in response I felt a kind of primitive inner violence well up within me, like I was preparing for some kind of stand off.  What the is UP with these frantic almost hallucinatory episodes?  Are they the result of excess adrenaline?  I'd never experienced anything like them until withdrawal started, and they only occur when my symptoms have for whatever reason spiked.  It's like how one would expect to feel after seeing a grizzly bear in a primeval forest, except that you're sitting alone in your apartment and there's no bear to be found.  Plus the feeling comes on somewhat slowly and lasts much longer than any real dangerous encounter would.  I suspect this all involves the alerting system and the ways in which its manipulated by withdrawal. Again, it's only when my symptoms (many of which are physical) are at an absolute height that I have these experiences, they seem to grow out of my combined symptoms.  I'm not crazy I swear!

[Narcissus]

Thank you Cymbalta, I appreciate you reaching out.  I've been feeling a little better since I went off on my psychotic death march.  

[basildev]

Hey Narc,

 

so incredibly sorry you're suffering. You've really been through the ringer and I wish the Universe would just give you a break!

 

I remember early in your journey you accidentally took an extra dose and while the symptoms may not be the same, it does seem you are EXTREMELY sensitive to dosage fluctuations.

 

Withdrawal symptoms are the worst kind of evil - it's so hard not to believe the awful stories we tell ourselves in the midst of the chaos.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

[Narcissus]

Thank you Basildev.  I'm glad you remember that because I sure don't!  I don't have any memory whatsoever at the moment, except for an uncanny sense of deja vu (for me flare-ups always have an element of deja vu).  Things seem to be calming down a bit now.  Thanks again for the reassurance.  

[Rhiannon]

Glad the psychotic death march helped a little...What you're experiencing does sound like you've been hijacked by your body's alerting/protective systems. I'm so sorry you have to go through this.

 

I know that right now it feels like this time is the one time it's never going to get better, it's never really been much better than this, and there's really no hope.  

 

Please try to remember that those thoughts are not based on reality. They're not coming from your frontal lobes where logical assessment resides. They're coming from neurochemicals and hormones run amuck, and they're going to pass, sooner than you expect but probably later than you'd like.

 

I've seen you having windows. I know they will happen again. I suspect this will continue to be a rough year or two, but I think you will find gradual improvement in a roller coaster fashion, and the roller coaster ups and downs will gradually become less extreme as well.

 

Hang. In. There! We care about you!

[alex]

Narcissus, do you sleep?

If you are able to sleep you will overcome this hard moment.

 

I have big trouble sleeping, and even though, I'm seeing important improvement during the day.

 

Sending you healing vibes.

[tezza]

Narcissus,

 

I'm so sorry you're still struggling. Hang in there, it has to get better!

 

Thinking of you....wishing you well

[Narcissus]

Ah, beautiful people, all of you!  Today was a little better.

Alex, I've never had any trouble with sleeping (thank god), I truly sympathize with those who do.
 

I know that right now it feels like this time is the one time it's never going to get better, it's never really been much better than this, and there's really no hope.  

 
You really have a strong grasp on the psychology of withdrawal, Rhi.  I'm getting better at avoiding these sorts of thought patterns, or perhaps the flare-ups are just less intense than they were. This double dose thing has reminded me just how horrendous things were a months ago, I really have improved a great deal on all fronts.  Now I just have to ride out this very sharp and ugly wave stirred up by the higher dose and hope it leads me somewhere more bearable.

[basildev]

May your healing continue