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Athena

Athena: journey through depression and antidepressants ...

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Athena

Thank you so much Mogfish and Mlrp!

 

Mogfish it's so nice of you to stop by and tell me that the missing words are a thing of the past for you... And by the way congratulations to you for your completed taper!! It gives me nice hope. And yes, "missing the words" is very annoying when you try to have a conversation with someone and look stupid when there's a big blank because you can't find the word "clock" or "fork"!!! Phewww... I saw you posted on the successful stories which I will joyfully read soon.

 

Mlrp thanks for altering your sleep schedule to check on me! At times I am pretty good at following the sleep hygiene principles, but at other times it seems like I have been using all the discipline that's left!! And, well, it tends to go away when we need it most, e.g. when the insomnia is worst. In fact its the computer /tv off that I don't always follow, when I feel lonely in the middle of the night because I don't sleep. But THANK YOU for reminding me that I should read instead, or even knit!! (Who thought I would knit!! :)). You are doing great Mlrp, and  your eventual Remeron taper might go smoother than you expect by taking it very slowly.

 

Take care everybody, hope to you all and a sunny Sunday.

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mlrp

Just a quick hello, Athena. Hope you are doing well enough today.

 

It's very grey and rainy here today - a day the "old me" would have typically found wistfully comforting somehow. Today, you can imagine, it's difficult to separate the "organic" melancholy from the neuro-emotional depression, anxiety, and hopelessness. I think it's the hopelessness that is new, and especially challenging. Whatever I had been through in my life, in my core being, I never lost hope. This w/d wants to take hope away - but I'm not going to let it! I recognize it as a faux-feeling that will pass.

 

And, as I have read here, I believe that healing is always taking place - even when it's in the background, behind the discomfort.

 

Didn't mean to go on there ~ !

 

Wishing you increased healing, and restful sleep.

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btdt

Hello btdt! Thank you for stopping by and greeting me!

 

I am sorry that you also feel that you are missing the words, it's not a nice feeling. I know what you mean when you say that you know exactly what you want to say but can't express it nearly as well. I guess this too will improve as we heal some more.

 

I am sorry too about your long drug history, it seems that the medical field is only starting to start to have an idea about what it does exactly to us since it is so complex.

 

Thank you for reminding me to go slow with the taper and respect my body. You are so right when you say listening to our body and responding is one third of the work. I don't do it enough. The Wellbutrin taper has been my "break" from the Paxil taper. At higher doses I felt ok to drop even by 10mg a month without any major problem. I started to feel it was too much by the end of winter, so I went slower, but not slow enough. The problem is that I start feeling bad WD symptoms with a big delay so this time I didn't adjust in time. So now no drop for a while!! It's so nice of you to help me when you are not feeling so good either.

 

Update: Sleep a little bit better, wake up later (around 5:30). Tightness in throat and limited breathing still there, but not constantly as it was.

 

Thank you btdt and everybody for reading me. I wish you all a little more peace and a little more freedom from symptoms everyday.

" it seems that the medical field is only starting to start to have an idea about what it does exactly to us "

 

I was thinking about this sentence and how much it holds inside the envelope of those quotations marks... how much suffering all the implications for families and children spouse of those taking these drugs... all the loss of life. 

Those few seemingly simple words carry a huge weight.  To think of it is heavy so heavy I hope it breaks open soon.  It has been 30 years and in one of my favorite withdrawal books Glenmullen says it takes 30 years for the truth of a drug to be known...for some reason it is taking much long for this class of drugs could be all the efforts put forth by pharma to keep the money coming in. Just could be.... it is not all just about the complexity of the issue the complexities are known and understood by many and should by now be known by every psychiatrist on earth.  The only way I can see a doctor does not get this already is choice they choose not to look at it they choose not to see it  because really the books are written.  Like taking a horse to water we can't make them drink... nobody is making them go to the water even...well not many but some of us... who are able to.. most of us are too unwell to fight them we just sit there ... take whatever they say in order to get the drugs to taper off and get well... 

maybe not but I can't say I blame anyone for not taking on a unbelieving doctor when they are sick in withdrawal... staying alive and as well as possible is the first priority...always. 

peace

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mlrp

 

I can't say I blame anyone for not taking on a unbelieving doctor when they are sick in withdrawal... staying alive and as well as possible is the first priority...always. most of us are too unwell to fight them we just sit there ...

 

Not to dwell on the negative, but I often have the same thought when I think about the criminality of this thing. It's created a class of perfect, docile, maleable victims. My sister the other day asked me if I was going to tell my original prescribing psychiatrist about what this has done to me. She meant well, but clearly doesn't understand how much of the "fight" has been taken out of me, and what is left I save for just getting through the day (as positively as possible).

 

Athena, hoping you are doing well... :-)

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btdt

same here...

peace

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Athena

Thank you mlrp and btdt for stopping by!

 

Mlrp, I appreciate your kindness and your sharing, whatever the nature of your thoughts! They are always welcome with me. I very well understand how we can lose hope in our situations. You will find hope again, and I know this because you take all the necessary steps. I believe we go through different emotions, often difficult ones, as we move into our taper. I feel I am stuck in the "grrrr department"! So much on my mind. How can we have been put here? By an industry that is more interested in making money than healing the people who suffer. By doctors who don't know better because that is what they have learned, and few care to look more into it; and there isn't much alternative treatment for people in crisis, because pharma hold all the research with their power. And in the origin... Globally, why can't we humans just be more kind to each other, help each other, talk sincerely to each other and find solutions together?

 

Yes we have been docile and patient. I agree btdt, it's hard to reverse to situation, it takes a lot of energy. It takes soooo much energy to make even the ones close to us understand just a little bit.

 

I hope you are doing well enough my friends. On my side well insomnia persists, as you can see! ^_^ I must say yesterday I had a good night of sleep, and the day before wasn't too bad either. Today I only slept 2 hours, despite all my precautions, relaxation, meditation...

 

And despite all of this, there is so much hope for us. We are awake (maybe too much!! ;)) , we are taking our health into our own hands, are fighting for it, and will get it back. And that in itself is beautiful.

 

Sending a whole lot of hope your way... Can you feel it?!!

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Athena

Hello to all!

 

A quick update on what's going on on my side.

I was just starting to feel better and sleep better again when the noise problems from the neighbors in our building started again. I will skip the details, but we have suffered a lot from lack of silence DURING THE NIGHT in the last year. We have had enough, our health was at stake. So we decided that we are going to move away and find a new apartment.

Needless to say that I didn't need this ton of stress right now!! I'm trying to take one day at a time, breath, meditate, walk, and resolve each problem as one. Not easy though.

I will try to still come by as often as I can.

Thank you everybody for your support.

 

Sending everyone hope, and love, and peace.

 

Athena

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Petunia

Hi Athena,

I'm sorry you have been driven out of your home by your neighbors and hope you find a new apartment soon.  Its good you are still managing to take care of your health with relaxation tools.

 

Wishing you peace.

Petu.

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Athena

Thank you so much Petu for your care and kind wishes.

 

Hello you all,

 

I haven't moved yet, but preparing to do so. We found a nice apartment which seems to be calmer and have better neighbors. We can't wait to move, but we need to find new tenants for here. In the process. My boyfriend and I have started to calm down after this sudden decision that we couldn't take this situation anymore (suffering from the noise in this building). As much as my boyfriend is the best in day-to-day maintenance and support to me, I find myself being the support to him in a stressful situation like this. Not easy during this withdrawal process!

 

I am taking a long pause in the cutting of meds, since I had to updose Wellbutrin by 1mg to 15mg. Needless to say that no more drop is going to happen before we move away from here. I am sleeping better. The tightness in throat and decreased breathing are still there, more or less depending on the days. My GI system is very sensitive, and some days I have a really upset stomach, like I need to eat all the time..? Also I still have the spasms when I relax my body, but they are decreased in intensity. All this is so much bearable though when I can sleep at night, which I have been for a couple of weeks now.

 

Thank you all for being here. I'll let you know how the process continues. I wish you all a beautiful day with sun, peace and calm breathing.

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Athena

Hello,

 

My impatience took over. I was annoyed by the fact that nothing had gone down in terms of milligrams for three months. So I dropped ONE LITTLE milligram of Wellbutrin on Thursday and I feel like crap :(

 

This is soooooo discouraging at times...

 

Sorry for being such a downer -_-

 

Hope we all get out of this.

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wulfgar

Hi Athena,

 

Dropping by for a hello. Hope you have stabilized again and are getting the needed sleep! Read about your noisy neighbors. Hope your move to new apartment has gone pain free!

 

Wulfgar

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Athena

Hey Wulfgar, thank you for your word!

The move is in 3 days, still working very hard to prepare for it. As I would estimate my energy level to be about 20% of my normal (normal seems so far away...), it takes about 5x more time... to be mathematically correct!! :P  But we'll get there, and we'll be much better over there.

 

Sleep is not so bad considering this stressful situation. How have you been Wulfgar? Maintaining your nice sleep?

 

Hugs to you and to everybody. Will be back in a week or so!!

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mlrp

Athena!

 

So glad to hear from you! I'm back after a pulling a little bit of a disappearing act here.

 

I can remember horrible times in the past with noisy apartment neighbors.  I'm so happy for you to have found a nicer, quieter place to move.

 

*sigh* yes, normal can feel so far away... but we'll get there (or better)! I started a tai chi class a couple of weeks ago and my lack of fitness (especially compared to my "used to be") so appalled me that, in the end, all I could do was laugh about it. But, yay me! for starting the class, which I already love. 

 

I hope you're able to pace yourself as you need to and that the move goes well. I rather like the unpacking of boxes and setting up in a new space, so maybe that will be fun for you, too. And you can take all the time you need with that part!

 

(((Big hug!)))

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Athena

Hello all!!

Ok so the back in a week turned more into a back in 1 month! :P Sorry about this. I'm so not good at writing.

 

Thank you Mlrp for your nice words. Yes, after the sprint for the move, I was able to take my time to settle and place things... still ongoing because my boyfriend works a lot so I do most of the unpacking... Slowly!! Tai chi!!! That's wonderful!! I did a little bit a couple of years ago and loved it so much!! They are like peaceful but strong choreographies, and doing them in group gives so much power to the movements. It's like our withdrawal process, don't you think?! Slowly but steady. Would love to do it again. So much things I would like to do with limited energy. I know Mlrp times are tough for you right now and I still think of you and send you my hope voices. Take care of yourself. Don't forget the slow wins over the fast.

 

I wish everyone is improving. Some days are difficult, but other days I am impressed by myself regarding the things I am able to do compared to a year or 2 ago!! I even started to run a little bit (I'm talking one minute at a time alternating with walking) and it feels so good. I might not be able to keep up with that as I had to stop for many months, but being able to do it RIGHT NOW is wonderful.

 

Still working a lot too on letting go of my anger towards people who don't understand, don't believe, don't respect, etc. That too is a difficult process, but which gives me more peace, and therefore more health.

 

Hugs and hope to all. Gonna go walk in this cold and rainy day in the North.

 

A- xxx

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Athena

Hmm weird how this post of "feeling better" was followed by a night of insomnia...

 

But it's ok. It's still there and it means hope, for me and others who read.

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Petunia

Thank you for continuing to update your thread Athena.  Its good to see how a careful slow taper results in continual recovery and improvement.  I'm glad your move went well.  I hope your insomnia passed quickly.

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Athena

Thank you Petu for dropping by, it means a lot to me.

 

Continual improvement indeed, that we must seek over the months though, because the day to day, well I won't say it's easy! ;)

 

Yesterday I got the same "I don't believe you" by some health care professionals , as I was trying to explain to them my WD symptoms. I had noticed a change in attitude from them recently, but now they said it clearly. They also asked me to leave like I was some dangerous psychopath when I consequently started to have emotion in my voice and asked questions that couldn't be answered. So I finally left, and am never going back.

 

I know we all had to live this kind of situation multiple times, but I always get so hurt by it. My friends, how do you cope with that? How do you live with that anger of having to cope with intense symptoms every day and every moment, working hard every day to improve your health and situation, having even very obvious symptoms that they can see (for me it was the spasms), and not being heard or even believed?? I seem to be unable to get used to it.

 

I wish to everyone a nice and peaceful week-end. Let's try to take some sun while it's still around!

 

Hope and love to everyone,

 

Athena

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Altostrata

We stop trying to get validation from health care providers, and just tell them what we want.

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Athena

That's the problem in fact, sometimes they stop giving you what you want because they decide you're someone who makes up stories!!

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Altostrata

Speak very clearly and firmly, with no emotion, and act as though you know what you want.

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Athena

Thank you for the good advice Alto, I will very much try to do that next time.

 

I agree that when they don't treat us right, the best solution is to stay calm and "together", no matter how difficult this can be.

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Athena

Soooo tired.

Sooo tired of being soooo tired.

And soooo tired of being so tired of being so tired.

 

Hum.

 

I wish everyone a beautiful day.

Anyone having any snow yet? Here it's beautifully white.

Love.

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mlrp

Hello, Athena,

 

Funny that your last post here was about being tired of being tired. 

I had just posted in my thread (after a long absence - I've been stuck in a pretty miserable wave) that I am sick and tired of being sick and tired ! *sigh* Patience is a virtue, n'est ce pas?

 

We have had a day of wet, sloppy rain and some snow - but nothing really to speak of. I admit to being more of a warm weather person, but I do find the fresh fallen snow very beautiful.

 

I'm not up to writing much these days - hope to get back to more regular posting soon, but did want to say "hello!" You are always such a bright, uplifting spirit - despite the challenges.

 

Are you enjoying your "new" apartment? (I remember you had moved a while ago.) 

 

Sending you peace and well-wishes!

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Athena

Hello all,

 

3rd cut of Paxil in 3 months, gonna have to take a break after this one. Sleep is not good. I manage to fall asleep around midnight with all the natural "sleep helps" I take/do, but always wake up around 2:30 and can't get more sleep until the morning, where I do sleep a couple more hours but then mess up the "normal" day schedule. I feel exhausted, and my thoughts are so blurry and confused. I would so much LOVE to move, dance, run, or take a good walk outside at least, but am unable today. Some days I can walk, but I seem to be in the worst effects of the cut right now, which was 5 days ago. I feel that my tolerance for this hell will very soon hit zero.

 

I still ansd always wish for everyone to get more and more health, peace and joy.

 

A.

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Athena

Oh God. Bad nausea. Dizziness during the night. Thinking about updosing. Aaaahahhhh...

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Athena

Hello all,

 

Got patient and didn't updose! The nausea is better, but difficult in the gastro-intestinal area. I feel like my digestive system is back to working after many years of being sleeping... And well maybe too much at once!

 

Head always very foggy and difficult to find my words and to think clearly. Energy is about 4/10. Irritable. I sleep about 4 hours at a time, which is very not bad.

 

It has been 2 years, today I think, since this WD journey started for me. I will try very hard to write a resume of those 2 years to help me place things in my head, but also to help others who might have the same profile as me.

 

Take very good care averybody. Winds of hope and healing your way.

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btdt

Thank you mlrp and btdt for stopping by!

 

Mlrp, I appreciate your kindness and your sharing, whatever the nature of your thoughts! They are always welcome with me. I very well understand how we can lose hope in our situations. You will find hope again, and I know this because you take all the necessary steps. I believe we go through different emotions, often difficult ones, as we move into our taper. I feel I am stuck in the "grrrr department"! So much on my mind. How can we have been put here? By an industry that is more interested in making money than healing the people who suffer. By doctors who don't know better because that is what they have learned, and few care to look more into it; and there isn't much alternative treatment for people in crisis, because pharma hold all the research with their power. And in the origin... Globally, why can't we humans just be more kind to each other, help each other, talk sincerely to each other and find solutions together?

 

Yes we have been docile and patient. I agree btdt, it's hard to reverse to situation, it takes a lot of energy. It takes soooo much energy to make even the ones close to us understand just a little bit.

 

I hope you are doing well enough my friends. On my side well insomnia persists, as you can see! ^_^ I must say yesterday I had a good night of sleep, and the day before wasn't too bad either. Today I only slept 2 hours, despite all my precautions, relaxation, meditation...

 

And despite all of this, there is so much hope for us. We are awake (maybe too much!! ;)) , we are taking our health into our own hands, are fighting for it, and will get it back. And that in itself is beautiful.

 

Sending a whole lot of hope your way... Can you feel it?!!

 

I thought about this a bit... how grateful we are to sleep to keep food down to move our eyes and not get a head zap to be able to be outside where sounds are and not be freaked out by the sounds.... so many things have to be overcome in withdrawal so may symptoms... 

 

All these things we have been tortured by... never existed before... it seems we forget everything of who we were and how life was... what it was like to be gleeful...ect... we are turned into beggers... who beg for sleep and peace.... when we get it we are so grateful. 

 

I am not sure what my point it other than there is something about this that pisses me off..... 

 

I keep thinking Stockholm syndrome but can't join the dots... slaves maybe... slaves were plucked from their lives and made slaves... then I guess they learn to beg like us are grateful when something gives... unlike slave masters we don't get peace when the master is out or in our sleep... our slave master is ever present....

 

something brewing here and I am not sure it is worth it... so I will just stop ... cause anger is not such a great thing all the time... even when I stop the thought process I still keep the anger...

 

in some way I wish to take the anger and dump it but we know that got a lot of people on these drugs....

I want to have some peace so will take my anger by the hand and take it for a walk today as I know it is not going anyplace without me... and not leaving.

 

I hope your peace is with you today... 

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btdt

Hello all,

 

Got patient and didn't updose! The nausea is better, but difficult in the gastro-intestinal area. I feel like my digestive system is back to working after many years of being sleeping... And well maybe too much at once!

 

Head always very foggy and difficult to find my words and to think clearly. Energy is about 4/10. Irritable. I sleep about 4 hours at a time, which is very not bad.

 

It has been 2 years, today I think, since this WD journey started for me. I will try very hard to write a resume of those 2 years to help me place things in my head, but also to help others who might have the same profile as me.

 

Take very good care averybody. Winds of hope and healing your way.

2 years is still early on I wish I did not post that last comment ... it is not something that is going to help you but my own crap... sorry... 

 I wish you peace keep going it is the way out...peace

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Athena

Oh Btdt please don't worry about the post! I know exactly what you mean and I feel the same, it is not just your crap ;)

 

Let me gat my thoughts together and get back to you!

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btdt

Thank you your very gracious.  peace

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Altostrata

Athena, I think perhaps a nice long hold on tapering might be good for you right now, let your body settle down.

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Athena

Alto, I am afraid you are very much right. Thank you for reminding me. I am silly for needing reminders every now and then but well, that's how I am I guess. There is so much I want to do... have children before I'm too old, take another turn with my career... Breathing... Breathing...

 

I won't change anything in doses and meds for at least 1 1/2 month, then if I'm well maybe dropping the Wellbutrin by 1 or 2mg because it's more tolerable than cutting on Paxil. That might not be long enough? What do you guys think? Sometimes I'm not a very good judge for myself...

 

I wish the coming holidays will bring moments of joy and peace to everybody here. Thanks all and take care!

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Athena

Oh I'm getting on my own nerves!! (Is this even an expression?!!)

One month at a time!!

I re-read some threads and will probably start micro-tapering when I'm well.

Thanks all for the support!!

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Athena

Hello all,

 

So I took this break from decreasing, and I needed it so bad. I rested, and rested, and rested. I slept for long hours, which I am sooooo thankful for. I haven't had real insomnia for a while, thank you thank you (whoever is "you".) I mean the sleep is not profound and I have a lot of weird and sometimes very scary dreams, but at least I sleep and that is so great. Oh I did have total insomnia the night I decided not to take my 1mg melatonin because some naturopath scared me that I would be dependent on in and would  have to do a WD from it too. I should have read the thread on melatonin here before I decided not to take it, especially since I had to leave early the next morning. But I am back on it and if I ever become dependent on melatonin, that is 100x better than being dependent on an AD!! :)

 

I love my new (from last fall, but still) apartment, and my boyfriend and I are slowly settling in. There is a lot of placing to do still, but we are not rushed. And compared to the previous one it is peaceful and silent, so the healing can better happen for me.

 

The most disturbing symptoms these days are extreme tiredness, as well as tightness in my throat and decreased breathing. When I have a little bit of stress or I do too much, they increase intensely for a day or two. So no need to say I haven't been able to run, also because I like to do it outside, and it's not nice to run on the icy roads. The winter has been so cold this year too, always between -20 and -30 celcius for a couple of months now, it adds to the body's tiredness.

 

I was bored of the slow walking though, so I subscribed to a zumba class. After the first week's course my symptoms were ramping up and I have been miserable for a week. Didn't go the next 2weeks because of exhaustion. Tried it again this week and my body didn't react as bad, Petu you were right about this! (Like you always are). And I insist on trying again week after week because I love dancing so much, and it's like I reconnect with my old self when I dance, even if I have to pace myself so much to not exhaust.

 

I wish a nice Sunday to you all, and thank you all for being there. I am always so very grateful for this wonderful community. Love and hope to everyone.

 

Athena

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dalsaan

Hi Athena,

 

I'm so glad to hear you are taking good care of yourself and resting.   I've had some good results with taurine in terms of improved sleep quality.  I'm wondering whether you think that might be worth trying for you.  Non restorative sleep, although better than insomnia, does lead to an enduring fatigue in my experience.

 

Just a thought.

 

Dalsaan

 

ps I cant even comprehend - 20 or -30 degrees.   I whinge when it gets below 10

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Athena

Dalsaan, thank you for this thought!

 

Along with melatonin 1mg and my relaxing herbal tea mix, each night I take 2 capsules of Magnesium Bisglycinate Plus by New Roots. Each capsule contains 150mg of magnesium and 30mg of 2-Aminoethanesulfonic acid, which I think is the same thing as Taurine. This mix of supplements has helped my insomnia a lot, but I am always open to suggestions to improve the recipe!! :)

 

PS Dalsaan it's the amount of coats and good boots and hats and scarves that make it bearable!! No sexy or even cute outfits  in the winter!! :P

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