☼ Miami1 Stabilizing on mirtazapine

[Miami1]

Thks Meim:

That maybe an option. So taking the same dose amount divided into three 4 times a day?

[Meimeiquest]

I was thinking more of bumping dose up a bit and then dividing it. But wait for someone more skilled than me to look at this.

[Altostrata]

miami, I merged your topics. Only one Intro topic to a customer.

 

I don't know about crossing over to another drug will help and neither do either of those doctors you spoke to. It would be a big experiment. It's up to you whether you want to take the gamble.

 

My guess is you are mostly suffering benzo withdrawal and are sensitive to the action of the mirtazapine. It may be that reinstating some small amount of benzo might help, but I don't know about that, either.

 

You made a switch to the mirtazapine liquid less than 2 weeks ago. We've been discussing adjusting your dosage.

 

 

Ok. Got it!
I did stop the vistaril. I am on half dose of 15 mg of Prevacid and will continue to taper. I will drink more water. And am splitting dose dose one hour apart which was a suggestion here because the liquid dose all at once will wire me. Btw my doc had suggested to take 1/2 dose at 8 pm and the other 1/2 @ 8 am to try and level out. I have not tried this cause it my be more destabilizing. I am for the most part gluten free and have learned to stay away from sweets know the outcome when I consume them. My appetite is not good but I usually have a fruit smoothie in the morning or gult free oatmeal w/ blueberries. Lunch sometimes but usually have lunch/ dinner at 5/6 pm.

Thks

Do you only eat twice a day?

 

 

Please answer the question in red.

 

The below indicates to me that your current dose of mirtazapine is too high. I would reduce it rather than increase it. I don't know what dividing the doses further would do for you. Your doctor may be thinking you need it for symptoms of depression during the day.

 

I had thought that breaking up the nighttime dose might reduce the hit on your nervous system from one dose. But it seems the total is still too high.

 

Since the first dose is uncomfortable, I would reduce it slightly. As your dosing schedule is

 

1mg @ 8:30pm, .8mg @9:30pm total 1.8 mg

 

Perhaps it would be convenient to try a first dose of 0.8mg with a second dose of 0.8mg.

 

First dose feels uncomfortable but doesn't revv.
Second dose borderline revving.

Sleep is 4/5 average with occasionally zero sleep then following nite after zero back to 5/6 hrs

I understand the underlining Benzo . Although I never had it this bad when in paws.

My doctor is overseas he emailed me, I can go up to 2 mg but if that doesn't solve the issue, its not mirtz WD .

What are your thoughts about that and should going up to 2 mg be considered?

Thks

 

 

To see what works and what doesn't, you have to be very careful and organized in your method. You need to take your doses at the same time each day. You need to keep notes about what happens and your symptom pattern during the day, too.

 

If you are eating only twice a day, that could be affecting you, too.

[Miami1]

Thk you Alto.

Last night I dosed .8mg did not feel any ill effects.

Second dose was .4mg, and that dose amped me up & wiped out my drowsiness for awhile.

I slept well but woke up with tremors and anxiety.

 

Since I only dosed last night 1.2mg and woke up with tremors and anxious I tried dosing at 8:30 am .1mg.

I felt no relief in fact it revved me up a little.

 

So last night total of 1.2mg plus the .1 mg this morning.

Alto I know you mentioned .8 then .8 again but after I took the first .8 it felt positive and I almost fell asleep before the second dose, was conserned about the full .8 may keep me form sleep.

 

I hope this doesn't come back to bite.

 

Please share your thoughts,

Miami

[Miami1]

Any thoughts on Buspar for anxiety ? Doctor had offered that a while ago.

[Altostrata]

Thk you Alto.

Last night I dosed .8mg did not feel any ill effects.

Second dose was .4mg, and that dose amped me up & wiped out my drowsiness for awhile.

I slept well but woke up with tremors and anxiety.

 

Since I only dosed last night 1.2mg and woke up with tremors and anxious I tried dosing at 8:30 am .1mg.

I felt no relief in fact it revved me up a little.

 

So last night total of 1.2mg plus the .1 mg this morning.

Alto I know you mentioned .8 then .8 again but after I took the first .8 it felt positive and I almost fell asleep before the second dose, was conserned about the full .8 may keep me form sleep.

 

I hope this doesn't come back to bite.

 

Please share your thoughts,

Miami

 

Miami, the dosage of mirtazapine you've been taking has been too much for you. If .8mg works for sleep, if I were you, I'd stay at .8mg and not take any more any time during the day.

 

Any thoughts on Buspar for anxiety ? Doctor had offered that a while ago.

 

The effect cannot be predicted. If there was a pill you could take, we would tell you.

 

 

What is your daily eating pattern???????

[Miami1]

Alto thank you !

 

I eat twice a day. I try and keep it healthy and avoid sugar items. Dinner I usually have fish chicken or steak. Even when I'm not hungry I try and sit down and force myself.

 

I will try only the .8mg tonight and see where we go from there.

This may be what settles things some.

Can't tell you how much I and so many others appreciate you taking taking the time to help so many.

Thank you

[Altostrata]

You may wish to eat smaller meals more frequently. Low blood sugar between meals can exacerbate symptoms. Your body makes adrenaline, the fear hormone, in response to low blood sugar.

[Miami1]

Thk you Alto:

 

I went to the er yesterday afternoon I had so much nausea and vertigo that I felt I would pass out any moment. I was desperate. They gave me zofran for nausea and some other med for vertigo "meclizine". I would have loved a shot of Ativan but not an option ,yet.

Had blood work and brain scan. Of coarse results normal.

 

I'm seeing to psych doctors , ones an old timer addiction specialist which understands long term benzo WD , he's the one that said to 2mg is nothing come off the remeron "I'm just prolonging the death". He thinks most of my anguish is benzo WD .

 

The other is a younger ,seems very knowledgeable but when we spoke yesterday by phone he said he thinks I should go on 1mg of abilify to help come of the rem. That worries me.

 

I'm so anxious shaky depressed , does it ever improve ?

[Altostrata]

Were the nausea and vertigo part of your usual symptom pattern?

[Miami1]

No

[Miami1]

It's been there for the past week or two

[Altostrata]

Miami, please work with us.

 

When you post about a symptom, please explain when it started, when it ended, if it's part of your usual symptom pattern, etc.

 

Since you've had this for a week, we know it's not from the reduction you just made in your mirtazapine dosage.

 

How many times have you been to the emergency room since you went off the benzo? Has that ever helped?

 

It sounds to me like you're having more of the same -- benzo withdrawal. And dizziness, etc. may be exacerbated by low blood sugar -- caused by your habit of eating only two meals a day.

 

Do you see any ways you can take care of yourself so you don't panic and go to the ER?

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

This bears repeating:

 

"It sounds to me like you're having more of the same -- benzo withdrawal. And dizziness, etc. may be exacerbated by low blood sugar -- caused by your habit of eating only two meals a day."

 

I have on hand always: nuts (almonds, peanuts), apples, oranges, string cheese, milk. I have noticed that if I attempt to skip breakfast then my condition deteriorates and I become panicky and anxious. If I go too long without eating, same thing.

 

Don't overestimate the importance of food in your stomach to help deal with symptoms. How about trying a day where you eat a little snack every 2 hours and see if that helps?

[Miami1]

Thank you both.

Understand ,will be more specific. Will keep a meal and snack schedule.

Yesterday was my 1st time to the ER since coming off of benzos.

Did the ER visit help yesterday ? The nausea issue yes, my true and overall problem, no.

 

Thks for your patience

[Altostrata]

Thanks, miami, and thank you, cw, for those excellent tips.

 

miami, if the .8mg mirtazapine is helping you sleep, that doctor is clearly wrong. Please let him know that hypersensitivity is common in prolonged withdrawal symptoms.

 

People often find ginger to be effective for nausea, either as tea made from fresh ginger or ginger capsules.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I just want to mention that all of my life I have always, when nausea strikes, eaten something. I think that hunger and nausea feel like the same thing at times. I have never gone wrong if I eat a little something, like saltines or a little cheese.

 

If you have done like I have in the past, which has been being one to consume lots of caffeine and drink soda all day, and then eat only one meal, you may not actually feel hunger pangs anymore. I have found that since I have forced myself to eat 3 meals a day and some light snacks, actual feelings of hunger are coming back. I am getting better at recognizing them as such. It takes a while.

[Miami1]

Thks CYM & Alto

I see the doctor tomorrow although he was the pysch on call at the hospital I was at on Friday. He was elated I cut the dose.

I cut from 1.7 to 1.2 Friday night.

Saturday morning I dosed .1

Saturday night I dosed .8

Today Sunday I will dose .8

.8 last night settled in good and put me to sleep a few hours later for 7 hrs slept well Friday as well.

 

Since the past few weeks I've noticed more depression. Yesterday and today it been with me since waking up. It a feeling of mental anguish that I feel hollows my chest. Still shaky and tennitus. Nausea is almost gone and dizziness has diminished some.

 

When should I feel the mirtz cut? Hopefully I won't!

 

I hope most is benzo related so I don't get hit . I'm out of gas....

Thk you

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Keep a log of your meds and times and symptoms and whether or not you ate and how often. This is the way you see what alternate/reducing dosing does for you.

 

Eat frequent small meals, drink water (8oz. a day is just not enough), and MOVE around. Gentle walking is best, nothing too active and do it early enough in the day.

 

Try not to think of which is benzo withdrawal, which the mirt. It is all withdrawal and you are in the process of supporting your body while it tries to come to some sort of balance. It takes time and there will be some rocks in the road. Try not to let them make you stumble. You have the support of all of us here. You aren't out of gas, it just feels like it. No matter how much abuse we have heaped on our bodies, they still try mightily to keep us well. You have to let it do it's job. You can do it!

[Altostrata]

Hopefully you won't feel the decrease in mirtazapine as it appears you were taking too much.

 

As it seems you are suffering from benzo withdrawal too, you may wish to discuss it here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/

 

It can take a very long time to recover from withdrawal syndrome from benzos or other psych drugs. You need to be patient, track your symptom patterns, and learn to cope with symptoms.

 

If you keep on going to a doctor complaining of the symptoms associated with withdrawal syndrome, 49 times out of 50 they will try to give you another drug because you expect them to do something, anything.

[Miami1]

Thks Cym ; I will keep going. I was keeping a log as I felt worse I stopped 3 weeks ago. I will pick it up. I will make it I'm trying to get used to tolerating the psych symptoms, they are all new to me.

Thks for helping

 

Alto Thk u I will ck out the benzo link! Your right about the doctors and their directions. Thks Alto

[Miami1]

My symptoms are ramping up.

Tennitus way up ,headache ramping up and feeling a frenzy of desperation. I'm keeping in ck but its bad.

Can the be the mirtz cut Friday from 1.7 mg to 1.2 then yesterday .8mg?

Should I try to go up tonight maybe to .9 or 1mg?

 

Thk you

[Petunia]

My symptoms are ramping up.

Tennitus way up ,headache ramping up and feeling a frenzy of desperation. I'm keeping in ck but its bad.

Can the be the mirtz cut Friday from 1.7 mg to 1.2 then yesterday .8mg?

Should I try to go up tonight maybe to .9 or 1mg?

 

Thk you

 

 

It can take a very long time to recover from withdrawal syndrome from benzos or other psych drugs. You need to be patient, track your symptom patterns, and learn to cope with symptoms.

 

 

I don't think you should change anything again right now, constantly changing the dose is going to cause more instability.  Have a look through this link for some ways to help handle your symptoms as you recover:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

[Miami1]

Petu Thk you.

I had my .8 mg dose at 8:30 last night and at 10:30pm added .2

Shortly after the second dose I began feeling a bit better.

I slept close to 4 hrs.

Do you think 1mg might be the dose to settle into ?

 

Thx

[dalsaan]

Well you have done it now so the answer is yes, stick to that.  Take the advice, manage your engagement with your symptoms and stick to a dose until you stabalise.   There is no magic number that will mean you don't have any symptoms. Not 1, .9, 1.2, 1.7 or any other you might care to name.  

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Dalsaan is right. If you keep yo-yo ing your doses on a daily basis based on hourly or nightly or the next day you won't give your body a dose to become stable on.

 

Petu repeated what Alto repeated about tracking symptoms. Meaning just track them. And learn how to manage them. We all have spent many sleepless nights full of anxiety, akasthisia and upsets. I have constant tinnitus too.

 

Practice good sleep hygiene. For me this has meant:

 

Go to bed at a certain time every night

Stay in bed until a set time.

If sleep doesn't come, just lie there and relax.

Use room darkening and keep bedroom DARK and cool.

Stay off the comp and TV during rest time.

 

To aid falling asleep I have used several means to keep my mind under control. I recite the Lord's prayer over and over. Or Psalm 24. Or anything neutral you know from memory. Counting backwards from 100 slowly works for me now. Do it every night without fail. You can't worry and pay attention to your tinnitus at the same time. They fade into the background and often you do fall asleep. That's how I got a handle on it.

 

Sleep has to be wooed. Rest is always available. I have been surviving on broken sleep for 6 months now. I get maybe 5 or 6 hours a night.

 

Changing doses is just chasing stability farther away.

[Miami1]

Thank you Dalsaan and CW.

I will stay on 1mg no mater what.

After lunch today I actually got a reprieve ,a nice decent window that I have not experienced in a while.

Hope it lasts.

 

Thank you

[Miami1]

.

Hopefully you won't feel the decrease in mirtazapine as it appears you were taking too much.

 

As it seems you are suffering from benzo withdrawal too, you may wish to discuss it here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/

 

It can take a very long time to recover from withdrawal syndrome from benzos or other psych drugs. You need to be patient, track your symptom patterns, and learn to cope with symptoms.

 

If you keep on going to a doctor complaining of the symptoms associated with withdrawal syndrome, 49 times out of 50 they will try to give you another drug because you expect them to do something, anything.

 

 

 

 

Hi all . six nights have past since I cut remeron .7mg and this morning at 5am I woke up from dead sleep with heavy anxiety which turned into big time nausea along with the dred and desperation So I think that .7 cut has come home to roost.

Will stay focused on moving fwd and hope this settles down quick.

Any encouragement is greatly appreciated.

Thx

[Altostrata]

Please keep track of your daily symptom pattern. Some symptoms come and go. They don't mean anything unless they're in a pattern, meaning happening more than once.

[bubble]

This is a very hard process but you can do it. These symptoms are so, so harsh and scary but just keep the medication steady and a miracle will happen. In the meantime just repeat: this is withdrawal, it will pass. And read how acetyl here had a breakthrough recently.

 

You will make it. 

[bubble]

And read threads of other people for encouragement: it's everywhere where you open. We are all in the same boat, only in its different sections.

 

I like this very much:

 

 

Yep, the symptoms come and go. That seems to be the pattern for everyone, and the trick is learning to ride them out and support your healing CNS as much as possible through the process.

 

[Miami1]

Thks Alto & bubble. I'll keep notes and get by as best as I can.

Always Appreciate your help

[Miami1]

Hello again:

 

It's been a week since I cut .7mg of mirtz currently on 1mg.

I continue to struggle daily, some days just a bit better than others.

Pattern last two days:

 

Thursday;

After waking up in a panic Thursday morn 4am ,as well as a very long difficult day that followed, I ended up feeling better that evening and slept fairly well.

 

Friday;

Woke up at 6am worked entire day and felt almost normal most of the day. Driving home, tennitus kicked in ,few hours later began to feel anxious and some depresion. I had my dose of mirtz and fell asleep @ 11pm. Woke up at 1:30am saturday morning anxious and shaky.

Went back to sleep maybe got two more hours. Been up since 3:30am.

 

Still wondering if the benzo WD has a role in this at all?

I know the similarities but is there any way to define since these feelings of desperation and anguish that come and go were not in the picture first 3 months since coming off benzos.

 

I think I just have not been able to stablize on mirtz and trying to go up on dose would revv me up,maybe I should just continue to cut every 2 weeks or so?

 

Thank you

[mammaP]

Hi Miami1,  I'm sorry that you are in the nightmare that is withdrawal!  I have to agree with the others here,

you need to stick with the dose in order to stabilise.  Once you have stabilised THEN think about another cut.

You will have windows and waves, things will get worse and then better again. You should stay at the dose you

are on for a few weeks to allow the nervous system to settle on that dose. 

 

It is very frustrating and feels like this will never end but you will get better with careful monitoring and tapering 

slowly.  You are doing great and i's good that you are here to share your experience and learn from others' experiences.

[Bayboy]

M1,

 

As you are aware, I too, am struggling with Mirtazapine.  I reinstated about 29 days ago at 7.5 mg from a CT of 30 mg.  With the exception of one desperate night when I doubled the dose, I stuck to the 7.5 every night at the same time, and it worked, I got better.  I am mostly symptom free right now and preparing for my first 10% reduction.  

 

In the beginning of reinstatement, I did not think I would feel better, but I listened to the good people on here, held on and stabilized.  It took this long too get to a level of reasonable comfort and I'm glad I stuck to the same dose taken at the same time. I am not 100% but feel well.

 

I do believe that there is some benzo withdrawal underneath in my case and perhaps yours as well, but it doesn't matter in terms of getting the brain balanced.  It needs to avoid constant fluctuations in dose and med in order for it to heal no matter where the withdrawal symptoms come from.  

 

Hope that helps a little, you will get better, please be patient, take care.

 

BB

[bubble]

M1,

 

As you are aware, I too, am struggling with Mirtazapine.  I reinstated about 29 days ago at 7.5 mg from a CT of 30 mg.  With the exception of one desperate night when I doubled the dose, I stuck to the 7.5 every night at the same time, and it worked, I got better.  I am mostly symptom free right now and preparing for my first 10% reduction.  

 

In the beginning of reinstatement, I did not think I would feel better, but I listened to the good people on here, held on and stabilized.  It took this long too get to a level of reasonable comfort and I'm glad I stuck to the same dose taken at the same time. I am not 100% but feel well.

 

I do believe that there is some benzo withdrawal underneath in my case and perhaps yours as well, but it doesn't matter in terms of getting the brain balanced.  It needs to avoid constant fluctuations in dose and med in order for it to heal no matter where the withdrawal symptoms come from.  

 

Hope that helps a little, you will get better, please be patient, take care.

 

BB

 

thank you for this post BB on behalf of Miami and everyone! The testimonies like that are very important. Many people don't check in once they feel better and it is important to know that reinstatement  works and stability heals. A lot of people are reluctant to reinstate. It's hard not to take a medication when experiencing a painful symptom but doing this things in the long run makes us even more miserable. Experiences like yours helped me keep my head above the water until I experienced my first  "better without changing the meds" feeling.

 

I'm sure Miami can do it despite all the difficulties.