☼ Miami1 Stabilizing on mirtazapine

[Miami1]

Thk u mama & bb.

I will stick to the program. BB sounds like you may have come off the mirtz a little to soon after the benzo. I'm glad you have begun to turn the corner. I've been looking for that turn over 7 weeks now. I think it can't get any worst but I'm either run down or the waves are getting worst.

 

Thk u

[bubble]

I've always wanted to be Mama ))

 

hm, it's not so much about turning a corner into a new world without symptoms. It's just that windows get longer and waves shorter. Try to look at however tiny signs of improvement, however short moments of relief, even if your general state still remains difficult. Focus on those positive things and for the rest just repeat that they will pass.

[Miami1]

Bubble I haven't a clue how I came up w/mama?

Thk u bubble I will emphasize to myself the good moments .

[Miami1]

I knew I got a post from mamma. The post went in prior page. Still have some brain function

[bubble]

of course you do! I'm sorry: I just liked being referred to as Mama so couldn't help it

[Miami1]

Anxiety/depression still bad . I was hoping it would taper of some but not yet. I left the house and been gone for 3 hrs trying to distract even had a massage but still in poor shape. It's not just the anxiety and depression but the desperation thinking ill have to take a benzo or another type of AD because I feeling like I'm close to the edge.

 

Thks for listening

[bubble]

When I was on the verge of a yet another awful panic attack which I had thought before only a benzo can save me from, I decided to experiment and not take a benzo.

 

And the symptoms abated just as I had taken it... It was a life changing event for me. I would so much want it for you to experience the same.

 

It's great you were able to try to distract yourself and had a massage. Even if it didn't bring you an imminent relief, your CNS has registered it for sure and will reward you. Going up and down with doses just batters it. It's not any particular dose that heals but stability and enduring symptoms over time. Look at the ideas of what you could do to relief the symptoms in Symptoms and self-care section. That rehab experience battered your CNS badly so it's taking its time but you are getting there.

 

hug,

 

bubble

[Miami1]

Thks bubble! I assume that was just and experiment and you never did drop the benzo?

[Miami1]

Have felt absolutely horrible since 3am this morning, in the evening I start coming back to life not much but just enough to notice.

Ok so I just finished with my first dose of Mirtz .8 mg at 8:30 pm later will dose .2 for a total of 1mg nightly.

20 minutes after dosing tonight started feeling a rush of anxiety shortness of breath and going straight back to feeling as bad as I did all day today.

 

I now have to take 2nd dose of .2 mg reluctantly.

 

My question is; if I'm at 1 mg of mirtz and it's making me sick when I dose it , why should I continue taking it?

Can I end up feeling any worst than I do now? Can 1mg ct mess me up ?

If I decide to come off , how should I go about it?

Is getting sick after dosing from the meds common?

Appreciate your thoughts

[Altostrata]

How does this fit with your usual symptom pattern? How did you sleep?

[Miami1]

Thank you Alto;

 

 

My may 2nd .7 reduction hit hard last Wednesday night into all day Thursday then a good day Friday then a bad Friday night no sleep then a horrible Saturday then a so so Sunday and a decent Monday but depression setting in. My .7 cut was 10days ago.

I'm still on 1 mg and will hold for now.

 

I'm sleeping 2 nights 5-6 hours 3rd night usually less. Few nights last 10 day 1-2 hrs.

Ocactional headaches little less tremors this morning but there's no rhyme or reason with the tremors and shakiness,comes and goes as it pleases.

 

I was on 1.8/1.7 for 2 months. Ive been on 1mg for 10days. If I hold another 10 days and don't get much relief, should I consider another reduction then a jump? If so how might I go about it?

 

Depression is becoming more frequent as well.

 

Thx

[Miami1]

Tuesday morning 4:30 am zero sleep. Went to bed with depression later ended . Then came the anxiety. The following day without sleep gets very difficult.

Thx

[bubble]

I'm very sorry you continue to struggle so badly.

 

When I look at your situation, I just get red flashes at the rehab section. It's just that I feel that what is happening to you now is closely linked with what happened back in December.

 

Here is me trying to understand your situation for my sake: googled Lunesta: Lunesta, is a non benzodiazepine hypnotic  which is slightly effective for insomnia (wikipedia)

 

you were on that drug for 7 years.

 

in May 2013 changes started happening: instead of tapering a drug you were on for 7 years you simply stopped taking it and took another (Xanax) becasue your doctor probably thought it would simply cushion the withdrawal. (Please correct me if I'm not reading your signature porprely). I would even say that the reason why you feel the way you feel NOW started back then.( Every change just means taking a tennis racket as somebody recently said and hitting your brain with it).

 

Let's see how you hit your brain next: October Xanax, stop, hit with November Librium + Remeron, stop, hit with Klonazepam, stop, hit with Valium, stop, hit with Librium: all that in one month!

 

(brain is such a complex, intricate, awe-inspiring miracle of evolution and we confuse it with all that stuff...)

 

and then to top it off, going off of all that in one month. We can't only focus on Remeron now and forget what was happening in November and December and indeed in May last year. 

 

Indeed miraculously, our brains do recover from all this but is it surprising that it takes them so much time? There is no quick fix, quick fixes are just another hit on a person sprawled on the floor. Even a broken bone needs stability and mustn't be touched to allow for the time to heal it.

 

I'm just thinking out loud here: which drug became an integral part of the  functioning of your CNS that it needs now to start patching  itself upsoon? From what I see Lunesta is a hypnotic, not even a benzo with which it was subsequently attempted to be replaced with. (first google result on LUnesta: "This medication may cause withdrawal reactions, especially if it has been used regularly for a long time or in high doses. In such cases, withdrawal symptoms (such as  vomiting, flushing, stomach cramps, nervousness, shakiness) may occur if you suddenly stop using this medication. To prevent nausea, withdrawal reactions, your doctor may reduce your dose gradually". - how gradually did your doctor reduce your dose - even if following a google search if not his superior medical knowledge?). Librium is is a sedative/hypnotic drug and benzodiazepine. and Mirtazapine is an AD. (What a confusion for me to follow this path. What a confusion for your brain to try and deal with that path).

 

Which of these drugs provided you any kind of relief after you stopped taking Lunesta?

 

Sorry if I was too feisty especially since a person deprived of sleep can't really process this much information ;( Maybe that's why I felt the need to get some perspective on your behalf....

 

I firmly believe we can sort this out and understanding what's happening and getting a bigger picture always helps me.

[bubble]

Thks bubble! I assume that was just and experiment and you never did drop the benzo?

 

Following my idea of "tapering" before I came here I basically cold-turkeyed my bezo (Xanax). I was actually improving on my doctor's idea to simply replace it with another benzo since "they all have the same effect, just a slightly different chemical structure which prevents dependency" - quoting my doc). 

 

After I "tapered" something I was on for 14 years over 2 months together with tapering an AD, I was in such a state that I didn't need much persuading to reinstate both.

 

When I wrote of not taking a benzo in response to a symptom I was referring to the situation when symptoms would ocur while on the drug and then I would just increase the dose. That's how I, similar to a heroin addict, ended up on higher doses in an attempt to stop the symptoms. It took me 4 months to stabilise and what I described to you: not reaching for more when hit by a symptom refers to that period.

 

For the first time in 14 years I'm going down (SLOWLY) instead of up. symptoms come and go irrespective of the drug. I also feel far less anxious than what I can last remember.

 

(I'm not sure I was able to explain this well, sorry)

[Miami1]

 

When I look at your situation, I just get red flashes at the rehab section. It's just that I feel that what is happening to you now is closely linked with what happened back in December.

 Which of these drugs provided you any kind of relief after you stopped taking Lunesta?

 

Hi bubble;

Xanax .25 provided relief for the first 6/8 weeks then was causing me itching and hives.

The valium and Librium soon was causing depression.

One night of klon. Caused hives

And last but not least which I did not add on signature, I was put on serax in rehab 15mg 4xper day then 3x then ,2x then 1. And off.

 

I realize what a disaster.

 

I really don't know how I'm going to weather this storm ?

I was much better the 1st 3 month than today.

When I don't sleep then every sx multiplies .

 

Thks B

 

[Miami1]

Btw serax was powerful and felt better than any other benzo

[bubble]

I've read the whole of your thread from the beginning to the end. I took the time. I warmly suggest you do the same.

 

You started your thread by complaining of mirtazapine and blaming it for all the horrors you've been experiencing since around January. At the same time you have been constantly reminded of what was happening before January and that you are actually in benzo withdrawal. Rhi wrote to you that, CW copied her post for you and suggested you read it and re-read it to understand what is actually going on with you.

 

Alto has also been referring to this several times as in the post I'm quoting here where she advises you to start a thread on benzo withdrawal issue in the subsection of this forum: 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/

 

If you focus on the wrong issue, you will ask the wrong question and get the kind of answers which won't address your situation. (you read Muddle's thread and get advice from other Mirtaz thing survivors while you actually belong with benzo vicitims. Mirtaz is "just" a second violin here...

 

A great part of surviving withdrawal is understanding what is going on, learning about our situation. That's why I took the time to shed more light on what happened BEFORE January and BEFORE Mirta thing. It was actually a hypnotic for 7 years and then loads of benzos. 

 

So I most warmly recommend 1) read and reread your thread to understand what is going on

 

2) start a thread on benzo/hypnotic withdrawal 

 

 

As I said, our brain has a remarkeable power of healing. It might help you to put up with the symptoms if you understand how badly the poor thing has been battered and that it needs time to recover, gentle care and attention.

 

you will make it.

 

Hopefully you won't feel the decrease in mirtazapine as it appears you were taking too much.

 

As it seems you are suffering from benzo withdrawal too, you may wish to discuss it here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/

 

It can take a very long time to recover from withdrawal syndrome from benzos or other psych drugs. You need to be patient, track your symptom patterns, and learn to cope with symptoms.

 

If you keep on going to a doctor complaining of the symptoms associated with withdrawal syndrome, 49 times out of 50 they will try to give you another drug because you expect them to do something, anything.

[Miami1]

Thk you for taking the time to help me bubble.

[bubble]

Thk you for taking the time to help me bubble.

 

thank you for noticing this and I really hope and believe it will help!

[Altostrata]

Miami, my guess it's best for you to hold the course. You will have some nights of poor sleep. You will have to be patient until your nervous system adjusts.

[Miami1]

Hi Alto;

Yep will hold.

Yuk ,heavy nausea,headache, vertigo ,soo tired , dozing off but soon as my eyes shut body jolts. Oh well this feels like my first couple of weeks at the rehab back in dec. 11days since Remeron cut, playing big roll but regardless which one or both, I'm in WD .

Gota pass some time.

 

Thank you all

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Sorry to hear you are still doing poorly but this is the way it goes sometimes and the only way through it is THROUGH it, unfortunately. Have you been eating every 2 hours and doing a slow walk outside for at least half an hour a day? You don't have to do it all at once and yes, I know it's hot outside but it really helps. These are the things we should have been doing all of our lives to stay healthy but instead we were convinced a pill would be better.

 

Not true and we know it, now.

[Miami1]

Hey CW thks for cking in on me!

Yes it is hot. I do walk except for today ,I walk 30 min in morn and 39 min in eve.

Usually poached eggs and toast then nice lunch and lighter dinner, w/salad.

Staying away from sugar!

I've learned a lot here and from you! Ad's are not like your average pill.

Everything is properly scheduled and dosed, if not ,well look at trouble I'm in.

 

How are you?

 

Take care

[Miami1]

Last night symptoms settled and slept 8 hrs. Did not sleep at all night before.

This morning woke up bit anxious and low mood,had my breakfast took my walk and ran errands.

Later this afternoon I had a few oatmeal cookies and soon after anxiety started in. Maybe the sugar?

Stomach has been growling again all day.

Had a steak for lunch and that notched down some of the anxiety

Also tennitus began late afternoon.

Anxiety is ramping up a little tonight, hope I can sleep tonight.

I did feel pretty good for hours today, short window?

What is the difference in symptoms, windows and waves between remeron and benzos?

 

Thank you

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

How are you?

 

For some reason, a lot better. I think I really was taking too much magnesium. Don't feel as sick anymore and the reduction didn't bring back the anxiety and palpitations so I'm happy about that.

 

Later this afternoon I had a few oatmeal cookies and soon after anxiety started in. Maybe the sugar?

 

 

Maybe so but maybe not. Try eating some protein with the cookies (like a piece of string cheese) and see what happens.

 

 

Stomach has been growling again all day.

Had a steak for lunch and that notched down some of the anxiety

 

 

Growling stomach may mean you need to eat something between meals. I do believe that the effects of high cortisol makes the body use more energy. You can always go on a diet after WD settles down. See what effect a heavier meal had on the 'anxiety' feeling?

 

I did feel pretty good for hours today, short window?

What is the difference in symptoms, windows and waves between remeron and benzos?

 

All the symptoms feel like crap, whether benzos or ADs. Try not to get too fine grained about it and just ride it out. You're doing fine.

[Miami1]

What was happening to u with the mag? How much where you taking? I've been on 400 mg 100 4x a day.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Here's the post where I explained what I think was going on. Jemima noted recently that maybe females shouldn't probably take more than 330 mg a day, 400 is a dose for males. And definitely don't supplement mag if you are taking a calcium channel blocker-type med for bp. I think you're ok at 400.

[Miami1]

Anxiety creeped in yesterday evening. Slept maybe 3 hrs and that's because I took 200 mg of mag along with lemon balm ,sleepy thyme tea and 6.25mg of visteril. I haven't taken any visteril in quite some time. But if I haven't I would have no slept at all.

Woke up with anxiety and that feeling we all know of ,that I'll never get better.

I have this obsession that the anxiety and the root of most of my symptoms is caused by the remeron.

Anyway off I go for my morning walk.

 

Wishing all a wonderful day

[mlrp]

Just a quick hello and well wishes from a newcomer, Miami1. I'm in the midst of my own struggles, so have only been able to scan some of your story. I hope to get to know you better in the coming days. I will eventually have to taper off Remeron myself, but first have to deal with Wellbutrin, and lorazepam. Sending you calm, healing thoughts on your walk...

[Miami1]

This Mirp

All the best to you

[Miami1]

Thanks

[Miami1]

Hi all : 16 days since I dropped .7 to 1mg of mirtz. Still struggling. Anxiety sky hi ,living in a fog ,impending doom, shortness of breath sleep issues depression worst every other day and feeling like I'm going crazy. I know I got benzo WD in the background but I also know that the mirtz is the forefront of all my problems! I want off of this so bad,!

When will this subside? Will it ever?

[Altostrata]

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6396-is-it-always-going-to-be-like-this/

[Miami1]

Thank you Alto.

 

The level of anxiety has reached new intolerable heights. Last night I finally had to take a 1mg pill of zanaflex a muscle relaxer prescribed back in jan. It made me drowsy while my mind continued to race. Finally i slept 3 1/2 hrs. I've woken up to anxiety again and overwhelmed by the situation I find my self in. How does one make it through after months of enduring WD when the intensity of WD cont. to escalate?

 

I'm so discouraged and concerned about finding my way out.

 

Thk u for listening

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

 

Anxiety creeped in yesterday evening. Slept maybe 3 hrs and that's because I took 200 mg of mag along with lemon balm ,sleepy thyme tea and 6.25mg of visteril. I haven't taken any visteril in quite some time. But if I haven't I would have no slept at all.

Woke up with anxiety and that feeling we all know of ,that I'll never get better.

I have this obsession that the anxiety and the root of most of my symptoms is caused by the remeron.

 

Miami, you have to stop popping pills to get sleep or to deal with anxiety or muscle aches or headaches or anything else or you WILL NOT be able to stabilize. That includes the zanaflex. Stop. Just Say No. No over the counter meds either. Nothing. No sleepy time herbal supplements. Limit your mag to 400 mg a day.

 

Many of us have gone through periods where we do not get any sleep AT ALL.  Unless you are in a job (like being in charge of a nuclear reactor or president of the country) you can survive without sleep as long as you make it a point to get 'rest'. I have explained that before in your thread.

 

If you are obsessed with getting off the mirt, remember that no one here is forcing you to take it. It was suggested that you reinstate a small amount to ease your withdrawal symptoms. You have not stabilized because you keep changing the dose and taking other pills. This is not easy but you belong to a support board filled with people who have gone through what you are going through and are slowly recovering because they got a plan and stuck to it no matter what. I am one of those people so I know what I am talking about.

 

How I coped with the wakefulness and anxiety? I used distraction. Every waking moment when I was not driving or walking or eating or doing some job was spent on my tablet playing games. Spider solitaire all day long. 2 months ago I added a jumble words game and I also did crossword puzzles online. Every waking moment. I wanted to die, I hated it so much that that was what my life was reduced to. Guess what? For the past several days my brain has started working again and now I am able to do some work on a website and read a little more. Since November, nothing but games. Now? Seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I haven't had an aspirin, ibuprofen, cold pill (have been sick twice), no caffeinated drinks, no meds of any kind. 3 meals a day plus snacks. Walk at least 1/2 hour or more a day. I lie down and rest at 10-11 PM and don't get out of bed until 6-7 AM without fail. Most of those hours are spent sleeping but in the beginning they weren't.

 

WD is messing with your mind but you don't have to let it control you.You can survive this if you follow directions and whether you take the remeron or not. It just takes time. A very long time. Pills are what got you here but they can't fix you now. The sooner you realize that, this will all become much easier (but not painless) for you. I know you can do it but you have to convince yourself that you can.

[Miami1]

Well said CW! Thank you again for helping me back on the right track!