Sunnydays: 11 months off 16 years of ssri (CT)

[luv2knit]

Luv2knit- I really thought I had this thing on the run, I definitely saw improvement, me being me though I did push myself. As soon as I had a better day I was off trying to do things I was doing before walking miles and long shopping trips.

 

I think as humans we process feelings in real time as soon as we feel some relief we are convinced we will not be ill again and the same goes when we are ill.

 

The insomnia makes everything feel ten times worse, when I do try to sleep I have terrible jerks that literally lift me off my bed. Not pleasant at all.

 

We will all improve x

[luv2knit]

Yes, the insomnia does make everything worse. Remember, though--progress is not linear (windows and waves). You can expect to feel better, only to turn around and feel worse again. Eventually the windows will become more frequent and longer.

[Sunnydays]

Hello

 

I just wondered if anyone knew of anyone else who had success after almost a year of. I really want to wait this thing out but I have felt terrible for weeks and everyday i have to fight myself to not go to the nearest pych hospital

[clearday]

Sorry to hear about this recent bad wave. I had a bad month too. I felt like reinstating.

 

But yesterday and today, I finally have some relief. Easier days like yesterday and today keep me going.

 

I hope you have a window soon.

 

Maybe you want to look over the Success stories forum?

 

 http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/28-success-stories-recovery-from-withdrawal/

[Sunnydays]

Thanks clearday

 

I do love to read the success stories Iv not noticed any cold turkey ones though, but I may not be looking in the right place.

 

I have terrible insomnia waking at 3 most mornings then that is it, if I do fall back it's a weird kind off ''trippy'anxious sleep that's feels like I'm trying to escape some kind of chemical mud that's dragging me down and usually ends with a massive adrenaline/ cortisol surge.That sounds weird but describes it quite well. Can anyone relate to that ? I then feel weak and teary for the rest if the day. I have also had trouble conversing with people, I find it almost impossible to follow conversations and when I do talk I can't find words etc.

 

My muscles cramp up after short walks and I feel a massive weight pressing on me pushing me to the ground. I have also had intense periods of not being able to stand any stimulus, I feel like everything is too close looking at a object completely and utterly freaks me out. I presume my nervous system is a mess.

 

I know this is about being brave and patience. Clearday thanks again x

[clearday]

That sounds like difficult withdrawal, there are quite a few others here facing such difficulty.

 

Good thing even the worst cases often get significantly better by year two or after, and eventually largely recover to normalcy.

 

Sixteen years on is a long time, so it makes sense that it will take time for you to get through this.

 

Eventually the insomnia should get more tolerable.

 

I had cold turkeyed Prozac years ago. All my Prozac WD symptoms hung on for around three years, and while difficult, they became slowly more tolerable during that time. Extreme chronic fatigue, brain fog, inability to multi-task, depression, sensitivity to light, and dry eyes being the main symptoms for me. Those are all long gone.

 

Now I just have Lexapro WD to deal with. Very different symptoms than my Prozac WD years.

 

I cold turkeyed off both of them because I didn't know any better. I would always recommend a long slow taper to reduce the severity of withdrawal, to make it more tolerable. The shock to the system due to cold turkey is often tough.

 

It's not all doom and gloom for cold turkeyers. Often long slow tapers run in to great difficulty during their tapers, especially at the end. Many just stay on the drug after trying to taper, too worried to reduce their dose due to WD during taper. If I would have done a long slow taper, I would have added two years to my Lexapro usage. With most receptors saturated with Lexapro up until the last half mg of dose. Not sure how great all that additional drug exposure would have been. So either way, cold turkey or long slow taper, difficulties are encountered, and recovery happens.

[Altostrata]

Waking at 3 a.m. is quite common in withdrawal syndrome. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

I take magnesium glycinate, glycine, and taurate when I wake at 3 a.m. It seems to help.

[Sunnydays]

Thank you. I wonder do people start the length of time from stopping there drug or form symptoms showing, I had a 3 month gap between both. Two years seems manageable to at least seem some improvement.

 

I have had one psychiatrist tell me I have melancholic depression in withdrawal, I have never had this kind of depression before in my 38 years on this planet and in fact have only ever experienced sadness and anxiety prior to ssris. Is this kind of desperate depression normal in withdrawal?

 

Thank you Alto I have magnesium but will purchase taurine.

[LoveandLight]

Yes...I've had this desperate, desperate depression.

[Sunnydays]

Thanks love and light. And you did not have it prior to ADs ? The doctor seemed surprised there is no other incidence of mental illness in my family as is often the case with melancholic depression.

[LoveandLight]

I cannot remember to be honest, sunny days. I don't think as bad. I've been on and off these things for 15 yrs so I'm used to wd which I thought was just me.

[clearday]

The first and only time I ever had serious melancholic depression began two years into my Prozac WD in 2005 and lasted for about one year and resolved on its own. 

 

In my case, I don't believe the Major Depression was triggered by the neurochemistry of SSRI WD.

 

I got that Major Depression because of the combination of the misery of being in protracted SSRI WD and having to quit my career due to the effects of WD. At the time I didn't know it was WD so I had no reason to hope I would ever get better. Losing my career and being chronically ill with WD caused complete loss of hope for my future. I sunk downward like a stone into Major Depression and treated it with alcoholism. It was a complete disaster. After a year, I got sober, the depression lifted on its own, and the WD began to subside. I got better.

 

Major depressions usually run their course within a year. IMO the worst thing to do is to give someone SSRIs for Major Depression since they usually self-resolve. Giving them SSRIs may help in the short term, but sets them up for long-term misery, as we all know too well. 

 

PS - I watched my best friend weather out TWO major depressions in his life. Both due to career changes. His depressions resolved on their own within a year. His doctor recommended SSRIs to treat them. But my friend searched SSRIs on the Web, and read something about how "SSRIs can be hard to come off of". So he chose not to go on them. Probably one of the wisest decisions of his life. And after seeing what I am going through, he is very happy that he never went on this garbage.

 

I have found that during a Major Depression, we become convinced that it will never go away, that we are stuck in it forever. People can tell us "you will get better", but I never believed them. Yet, I completely recovered from the Major Depression.   

[Sunnydays]

Yes I get the forever feeling I have it everyday. Some how thinking I'm the one who won't recover, that this is part of who I am. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If only we could go back but forward is the only way.

 

I wonder if Alto or any moderator thinks it's too late to reinstate prozac at 11 months off ? I respect any opinion

[luv2knit]

I think it is the nature of the beast for us all to think we will be the one that won't recover.

[bluebalu86]

Yes, I think everyone else but me will recover. 

[Sunnydays]

How on earth do people cope with work? I'm on the edge of losing my job. Praying for some good days

[clearday]

During my Prozac WD, the first year I had unusual bad fatigue every day, and brain fog, and I was working full-time in a highly stressful job. I thought I would not make it, but I did. I clawed my way through it. 

 

Twice a week, I would actually draw a mini-calendar of the next three days, and carry it with me. I would write out for each day what I had to do. I tackled life in blocks of three or four days at at time. I couldn't handle staring at a monthly calendar. Too daunting. I would X-off each day once I got through it. Each day X-d off was a mini success. Hooray! I got through a day. Then three days would be X-d off, I'd throw it out, and start again.

 

Before you know it, you will have X-d off a couple years. And you should be feeling better than you are feeling right now by then. 

 

I think during WD we are forced to live life one day at a time. My life plans for the future are put on hold during SSRI WD.

 

Even for people who have never been challenged with chronic illness, life is best lived one day at at a time anyway. They're often so busy planning for the future, worrying about the future, that they forget to appreciate each day. And before they know it, life has passed them by.

[Sunnydays]

Thank you clearday you really inspire me. I hate wishing my life away, I have had to go part time at work and I am even seriously struggling with that. If the anxiety and dread would ease I could fight more. It's soul destroying living with this kind of unease. I refuse to give up though Iv felt calm before I refuse to believe I cannot feel it again

[Sunnydays]

Thank you clearday you really inspire me. I hate wishing my life away, I have had to go part time at work and I am even seriously struggling with that. If the anxiety and dread would ease I could fight more. It's soul destroying living with this kind of unease. I refuse to give up though Iv felt calm before I refuse to believe I cannot feel it again

[Sunnydays]

My doctor has suggested tms or ect for melancholic depression as I refuse to take a AD ever again. Does anyone know if this will interfere with healing from the years of meds. I'm quite happy to wait it out but the lack of feeling anything is quite disturbing

[LoveandLight]

Ooh ect..I really would not go there..

 

Tms on the other hand is meant to be quite good xx

[clearday]

My doctor has suggested tms or ect for melancholic depression as I refuse to take a AD ever again. Does anyone know if this will interfere with healing from the years of meds. I'm quite happy to wait it out but the lack of feeling anything is quite disturbing

 

Not sure. But our brains are injured, raw and vulnerable during withdrawal recovery. Our brains cannot handle stress and substances well until recovery happens after a couple years. So I would be wary of ect while my brain was doing what it has to do at its own pace during recovery. I think most of us have all learned that SSRI WD symptoms will heal at their own pace and we can't rush it. If there were shortcuts, we'd all be talking about them. I think the resounding message of those who have recovered it to ride it out, and let our brains heal. 

 

I just read that even under best case scenario, with brains not injured by SSRI usage, ect helps 50% of patients, 25% of whom relapse to depression within 6 months. So 25% get some lasting relief, but with major memory loss from ect and other damage. And then you will spend the rest of your recovery wondering if you messed it up by going through multiple ect treatments.

 

Right now I am content to watch myself slowly recover. As miserable as it can be, I find it interesting to see how windows and waves happen, and how my symptoms change over time, slowly improving. Watch the video below, every thing in it is spot on from my own experience. I am so happy that I am giving my brain a real chance to heal by riding it out and being patient. It takes enormous patience to get through this. 

 

Apathy and anhedonia are so common in SSRI WD. I had it for a couple years after I stopped Prozac, and it went away eventually. I know how bland and lousy it feels, but better to have the anhedonia than severe anxiety, paresthesia and akathisia that many suffer from. The real you that is able to enjoy life is there underneath your symptoms. It will just take awhile for those symptoms to lift.

 

You should have eventually have a window even for just an hour one day where you feel like your old self. I remember that day many months into my Prozac WD, years ago. I was standing near my back door, the sun was shining, and all of sudden I felt like my old self. I felt happiness and joy. I quickly realized that my body could work like it used to, in spite of all that I was going through. The window passed as quickly as it came. But it showed me that I was there, underneath my symptoms. And within a couple years I had largely recovered. 

 

I just saw this great video that describes SSRI recovery to a tee, btdt had posted it. Maybe you've seen it:

 

https://youtu.be/KQtO6HXJfjw

[Sunnydays]

Hey clearday. I do agree pushing yourself sometimes helps. I have had the akathesia and Terror/ fear response that Iv read can happen with prozac withdrawal. I believe that is what sparked the melancholic depression and I agree with you I would rather have the anhedonia than akathesia anyday, it was the most horrifying period of my life . I still get it now although it is not anything like as bad and I actually think I have PTSD from those days.

 

Although I was on ssris for 16 years I was only on a low dose, 10 mg of prozac for the last 7 years. I find it hard to believe that if I was destined to be melanchonic for my whole life that such a low dose would have prevented that happening. Never the less it is hard to express the distress of feeling nothing to anyone who has not felt a similar way.

 

I will watch the video. Thank you

[Sunnydays]

Hey clearday. I do agree pushing yourself sometimes helps. I have had the akathesia and Terror/ fear response that Iv read can happen with prozac withdrawal. I believe that is what sparked the melancholic depression and I agree with you I would rather have the anhedonia than akathesia anyday, it was the most horrifying period of my life . I still get it now although it is not anything like as bad and I actually think I have PTSD from those days.

 

Although I was on ssris for 16 years I was only on a low dose, 10 mg of prozac for the last 7 years. I find it hard to believe that if I was destined to be melanchonic for my whole life that such a low dose would have prevented that happening. Never the less it is hard to express the distress of feeling nothing to anyone who has not felt a similar way.

 

I will watch the video. Thank you

[clearday]

10 mg of Prozac is not a low dose. It can be just as damaging as the standard 20 mg. Prozac is a very strong drug, do not underestimate the power of even 2 mg to transform your entire nervous system. This is based on science -

 

Even doses as low as 1 mg keep most of our nerve receptors saturated with their chemicals to do their deed. That's why slow taperers encounter their worst problems below 1 mg. That's when the real reduction in receptor saturation is happening. Click on the second link in this thread and look at the Meyer receptor occupancy curves:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6036-why-taper-paper-demonstrates-importance-of-gradual-change-in-plasma-concentration/

 

I was on Lexapro for 5 years. For the first two years, I was on 10 mg. Then I went down to 5 mg. I only had 2 weeks of fatigue, then immediately stabilized as if I had not cut my dose. I stayed on 5 mg for two years.

 

I was on that half dose of Lexapro, only 5 mg, before I cold turkeyed. I got hit hard with acute onset and delayed onset during the first year as if I was on a high dose. Going from 10 mg to 5 mg was nothing compared with going down from 5 mg to zero. Going from 5 mg to zero absolutely floored me and all hell broke loose, sent me into protracted SSRI WD. 

 

It is no accident that we are so messed up for so long. These drugs are very powerful even at low doses. They put us on ridiculously high doses and call them "standard" therapeutical doses. 

[Sunnydays]

I completely agree that prozac is strong and that any amount even 1 mg will effect the nervous system and body. What I mean is is severe depression was something that I have always had then 10mg of prozac would not have controlled it for 16 years

[clearday]

Ok, sorry, I misunderstood  

 

I think I added something about a window in the first post above, maybe it would interest you to read it.

 

Hope you feel better soon -

[bluebalu86]

Hi Sunnydays

 

I don't think it's right or professional of a doctor to give you diagnoses while you are in withdrawal. Who wouldn't be depressed when suffering so much? Anyone would feel depressed if they felt like crap all day long, every day, for years. Actually I'm thankful now for feeling like crap because when I crashed first with CT Cipralex in February and then with a 50% cut of Flupentixol in April I was so miserable I felt like being tortured and wanted to die. I can tolerate feeling like crap but that horror was something else. 

[Sunnydays]

No problem clearday I don't think I explained myself very well I really appreciate your support.

 

Bluebalu I know exactly what you mean when you say tortured I have felt like that a lot. When you talk of suicide to a doctor after coming of ADs they automatically assume your depressed again and want to give you more drugs. They do not consider it is the drugs causing the issues. How on earth can you properly covey to them the feelings of terror and torture you are experiencing when you don't fully understand what is happening yourself. I recently read a article about a woman who after going on a cruise experienced a rare condition where she felt permanent extreme sea sickness. There was nothing doctors could do and she said she felt suicidal everyday because the thought of living in that hell forever was too much she had no history of mental

Illness yet was driven to the verge of suicide. Wanting to die because of the horror of Withdrawal symptoms is a perfectly natural response, I imagine that when you felt like this you were very distressed upset and crying alot ? I know I was and that was because I did not want to die at all I was terrified to die, I have always loved and enjoyed life, I simply could not bare the thought of feeling that horror and agitation one more second that shows we very much want to live. It makes it all the more painful that no doctor believes us, you have no voice when you are in that much distress nothing you say is to be taken seriously. Every symptom you describe will be given a explanation of anxiety or depression. I have a lot of hate for the pharmaceutical companies. The Drs are just panic ignorant. There is a saying that goes something like this.

 

" To not know the truth is simply ignorant but to know the truth and deny it, is criminal "

 

And that's what pharma companies are nothing but criminals

[bluebalu86]

Yes, exactly. Anyone would feel suicidal in withdrawal, it's normal and completely understandable. Probably some people have an easy WD and don't feel that bad, but we do. And it doesn't mean we're mentally ill or having some new diagnosis. It means we're suffering greatly and doing what we can to survive. 

[clearday]

I don't think it's right or professional of a doctor to give you diagnoses while you are in withdrawal. 

 

Great point. That goes to the core of the bigger picture here of why doctors are completely mismanaging the treatment of their patients.

 

Most of these doctors don't even recognize withdrawal symptoms, they have been trained to see these symptoms in terms of a relapse of some underlying mental illness.

 

That's why they put the patients back on SSRIs, thinking they are treating mental illness. And by doing so, only cause further damage to the patient's nervous system, and propagate the SSRI merry-go-round cycle.

 

My rule of thumb is to blame symptoms that we now know are due to withdrawal, on withdrawal, during at least the first two years after stopping the drug. That includes symptoms most often associated with depression and anxiety, such as anhedonia, apathy, and brain fog, restlessness, panic. 

 

It's easier to recognize obvious symptoms of SSRI nerve changes due to withdrawal such as paresthesia, akathisia, body numbness, dystonia, head pressure, brain bubbling, tinnitus, etc. Yet these doctors have the nerve to say these bizarre symptoms are due to anxiety! So clueless are they as to the damage their beloved drugs are causing thousands of people.

 

I've heard it said before, you can't properly diagnose a patient who is in SSRI withdrawal, because their nervous system has gone haywire. The problem is that doctors believe withdrawal can last no longer than six weeks. So when these tardive symptoms hit months later, they can't even conceive that it is due to SSRI WD. 

[bluebalu86]

Exactly. Doctors are so clueless. I think all of us here have a lot more knowledge of these matters than they do because we're suffering first hand and trying with collective efforts to figure out how this WD thing works. This forum is like a research project on WD, unfortunately, none of us signed up for it. There's a lot of knowledge and experience on these pages here, people's stories, years of struggling. I can say that I trust the people here much more than I do doctors. They have yet to learn about withdrawal, research it and find some way to treat it. They are lagging behind all of us. They will probably catch up in a decade or more, by that time I hope we are all well and will have this nightmare behind us and it will be only a bad memory. 

 

When I went to my doctor with WD symptoms he tried to tell me that I'm experiencing a "relapse of my illness". I told him "but I never had any of those symptoms before and I am sensitive and know my body". He said "well, symptoms change". They always find a way to blame it all on our "illness" and not on these horrible drugs that are so precious to them. It's so pathetic. They don't know ****. No matter what logical and rational arguments you give them they ignore them and twist things around to prove their point. It makes me so angry because I used to respect science and reason. And now I see that medicine has nothing to do with science and reason. These people have obviously never heard of the scientific method. They are not scientists, they are an ignorant bunch of know-it-alls who ruin people's lives. 

[nz11]

 

 

I don't think it's right or professional of a doctor to give you diagnoses while you are in withdrawal.

yep i agree 'you cant diagnose  a brain thats been altered by chemicals.'

Not sure what they learn at med school but one would think this would be the abc's !!

Its just apalling.

[Sunnydays]

So I'm going to ask my doc for liquid prozac and try to go back on. I don't want to I really don't I will have wasted 16 months and even though I have made some improvements in 9 months I feel so desperately depressed to the point nothing means anything and I get zero enjoyment from being alive. I have a lot of physical pain and chronic fatigue, life is truly unbearable at the moment and I have not had a window since early April. I feel completely traumatised by the last 9 months the really bad times go over and over in my mind on constant replay. It's torture it really is. Iv practically lost my job and my other half is struggling whilst trying to be supportive. I'm totally and utterly destroyed and I'm completely lost as to what to do

[Sunnydays]

If I did not have a job kids and a partner I love dearly I would wait the necessary time period. I have so much anger at doctors and the pharma companies and it's eating me up inside. Which I know is no good for me, it's like eating poison and expecting them to to die.

[Ssriwarrior]

Just stopping by to offer support. I can relate to the traumatized feeling of protracted withdrawal. Words truly cannot describe just how scary it is and trying to raise children and work while in that state is so terrible.

 

I got down to 2.5mg of Lexapro when I hit horrific withdrawal and had done a slow taper over a year. I was terrified of reinstating because was afraid it would make things worse, but it actually worked for me. Small doses are key and there are no guarantees. In my opinion it is worth a try but I know not everyone is a fan of reinstatement because of the variability in reactions.