Vonnegutjunky: Paxil 10 mg for 8 years - partial wean with reinstatement

[bromor]

Have to agree with brass monkey about the secondary panic/fear. I use the DARE response, defuse (I tell myself so what), accept (I repeat to myself that I accept & allow the sensation), I "run" toward the fear telling it to give me more, then lastly engage myself in something. The sensations may or may not go away BUT I still go and live/do ect. It's about getting rid of the fear of the anxiety. Yes, it takes practice and hard work. I'm not "there" yet. However I can tell you that because I'm not fighting the sensations like I used to that they really have diminished. So yes, go take that walk. Push through those feelings because you've always made it through before!! ☀️

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

This is for Brass, I cannot quote properly on this tablet...

 

I feel it is not that we should NOT tell people they might have goofed but that while they are in crisis it does no good. They will start to attack themselves and they need all their strength to fight wd. You'll note I said what I said in someone else's thread but she might in fact read it but that might be a gentler way than saying it directly. I said it more for the benefit of the board. I have really strong opinions about this but I generally keep quiet for fear of really upsetting someone. You'll notice I tried to give her a pep talk, she was here today but I don't think she saw the post. I think she will be able to hang on, I really do.

 

VJ, 2.5 miles is too far, 30 minutes gentle pace is all you need and yes, you have to force yourself. Count the steps, let it be a sing song rhythm. You are trying to give your system some external rhythm to lean on so it can calm down. It will be quite some time before you can do strenuous stuff and you can solve the psychological stuff later, in wd everything is reacted to with alarm but you must do everything in your power to establish a routine of outside 30 min walk. Or ignore me if you want but I survived wd syndrome and it lifted pretty quickly. There's no way I should feel this 'well' after CT those high doses of drugs. I, by all rights, should be off in a corner drooling on myself. Too much exercise ramps up wd syndrome.

 

I had a friend, came and picked me up every day and we walked. I think I only missed a handful of days in the whole year. She dumped me at the end of the year, it's a long story. But I will forever be grateful.

[Vonnegutjunky]

So I decreased again tonight- down 11.5mg off a 25 mg tablet - I haven't had akathisia for almost 3 weeks- I think I've had little wave, but not for days- hours - but not days - I am definitely more stable but want to get down to 10 mg - as I still get blurry vision pretty bad tinnitus and burning mouth from time to time - I am very nervous to get below 10mg so I think I'm going to take a year to decrease from 10 to 9 - I'm getting closer though!!! I don't know how many people have ever had drug induced akathisia, but I wonder if it's the same as wd akathisia - if anyone has had the unfortunate experience of both I would like to hear from you- if I only have typical wd during my taper, I'm golden, nothing can touch me now, that akathisia is hell on earth - not to undermine anyone else's experience but omg - I hope I never ever have to feel that again

 

I also hope this .5 drop doesn't affect me negatively - so far all of my decreases have gone very well, and I've only felt better and better but u am always afraid of backfire - I am a walking Murphy's law

[MapleleafGirl]

I still have the blurry vision issue... It's still from my Paxil wave also in the past when I went off Paxil and had withdrawal my vision was always effected.. I have to use reading glasses right now and I can't even use them that long or I get nausea...

[Vonnegutjunky]

Man - I wonder why vision is so often affected by this drug! I hate it - I need glasses now too ☹️

I am also glad to hear of your positive experience with lexapro! Happy to hear it's working for you! I always worry about ssri resistant depression- I just would like to know that i have another option in case I get off thePaxil and cannot function for some reason - I want to live and function more than I want to be off Meds

[MapleleafGirl]

AND...every time i went back on paxil.....low and behold...3-4 weeks later...my vision returned to normal.....and i would try to explain this to people and they just dont get it..its the paxil causing it....plus i have some eye floaters too this time.....yes thank goodness that Lexapro worked...or i would be i dont even know what....i thought my 4 year 5% slow taper was super slow...now looking back i should have taken 7 years to taper..how insane is that......i get delayed withdrawal...and i had no issues at all while tapering except in the lower doeses i had a couple of dizzy spells but that was it.....and i had a weird feeling that since my taper was so easy it might come back to haunt me...and so it did ....but again...just grateful to have my life back right now..even with the blurry vision...which could get better at some point...

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Vision is nerve impulses and as ADs affect the nerve transmissions (well, you know what I mean) in all systems of the body (everything has to change to accommodate to their influence), it stands to reason there will be effects like blutted vision. I had it for a time but I had just changed prescriptions too and got a pair of glasses I had to return because they weren't right.

 

When you manage to go off the ADs, things eventually return to normal. If you need glasses, you'll still need glasses but it won't be because of the drugs.

 

I think your downfall was that last year was too fast and maybe 1 mg was too high of a jump off dose. I does not matter now, you're back on a drug and things are fine.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I almost made a double post, I see there are a bunch above me. The post editor did not close after it saved. SO I left it open and refreshed the page and saw my post had posted.

 

Note for Alto: could there be a bit of file corruption in the location of this particular thread?

 

And it is still doing it as I try to post this...... and then it finally did it right. Let's see what this edit does.

[Altostrata]

Duplicates deleted. Most likely, the server was running slowly for a while.

[Jlynn]

I developed eye floaters over the last couple of years my eye doctor noticed. It is hard to tell if my vision is blurry sometimes because I wear contacts and they are always bothering me. But the floaters are noticeable and I can totally see them when my eyes move back and forth. 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Well it's been about a month since I last posted -

 

I am almost back down to my 10mg "normal dose"

 

The past coulple of days I have really noticed feeling different- like myself- my cns seems to be calming

 

I'm not taking anything else - just my Paxil- I am currently on keflex for a horrendous bladder infection- I am worried this is going to throw me into a wave, but I had no other choice - I couldn't sleep from the pain-

 

I will say a lot of my symptoms have disappeared- very slowly and some have gotten much better -

 

The burning mouth, ear ringing, visual snow are no gone but they are better

 

Feeling like I'm in the tv - gone

Blank mind....- gone

Sensations of flying out of my home into traffic- gone

 

Numbness - gone (this one took a long time to go)

 

 

I still have anxiety and dp/dr at times, but I feel normal and like myself -

 

Also my cycles have returned?? Thought I was in menopause but I think maybe stress stopped them for a while -

 

So decreasing is helping and I am definitely feeling better - I hope I can serve as a warning for reinstatement or increasing - sometimes it does backfire and let me tell you! It's way worse than ANY withdrawal your feeling now!! Be careful and only updose as the mods suggest!!

[Vonnegutjunky]

Just an update - I was doing really well when I got a bladder infection almost 3 weeks ago - I was given a 10 day keflex round of antibiotics - that Didn't work and the infection went into my kidneys - now I'm on a cipro and so on edge about getting floxed - I have been on cipro before and it causes me bad anxiety and horrible nightmares - but I don't know what else to do- it's working - it's taking care of the infection- I'm just so freaked out that something horrible is going to happen to me I don't know what othe antibiotic I could take - if this one doesn't work I don't know what's goin g to happen - I am well aware of the horrible and permanent damage this causes to people - so worried.....

[Altostrata]

Sorry to hear about the infection, VJ. Hang in, how long do you need to take the Cipro?

[Vonnegutjunky]

I got a 10 day prescription - I'm on day 2 - so far only a headache but I know it could be weeks of mothers after I'm finished that I could get floxed

[Vonnegutjunky]

Hope everyone is well-

 

I took the cipro and fixed my bladder infection with no issues

I've been at 10mg now for almost 2 months

 

I decided to write today because the window I had today felt pre-withdrawal/pre akathisia

 

This was the first time since 2014 that I felt like normal- not good - but sensory wise - I felt normal-

 

What was really strange is the horror of the last 2 years felt like a dream - even the other day I wasn't doing so great - but even that

It felt like a dream - like I know it happened but it seems so distant -

 

So I feel hopeful that I can stabilize at 10mg - where I was for 10 years - and then gain the strength to do a micro taper -

 

Symptoms that have gone - even during waves :

No "brain blips"

No feeling like I'm going to fly out of my window

No light or noise sensitivity

No akathisia

No feelings of terror or horror

No visual snow

Burning mouth has decreased

Double vision less intense

Can watch tv (can concentrate and understand and distract )

No longer feel like I can't get out of bed

Can do chores

I went back to work one day a week (I can work even during waves )

 

So I still do have waves but I can function - I struggle and get bad anxiety and even feel lots of cog fog but I

Do it in spite of this -

 

so since my decrease things have improved a lot

I will always regret increasing like that and I cannot ever stress enough to

Increase slowly - be patient!!!! Months!!! Or years!!! That's how long it takes!!!

 

 

Hope everyone is well ❤️

[Vonnegutjunky]

Just another update -

 

Since this past Friday I have felt unequivocally 100% like my old self -

 

100% normal!!!

 

The akathisia has stayed gone

 

I just feel normal! No cog fog - no feeling funky or out of it / my mind is clear!!

 

I pray I can stay here and then begin a very slow taper next year -

 

I'm just so happy that I'm here and I credit it to this group- and how everyone talked about not switching things up so quickly and going slow and steady - at 20mg with horrible akathisia I still microtapered down to 10- many times I want to just cut my dose but I didn't - I went slowly even though I felt I was in hell -

[AmyK]

I am so happy for you!

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thank you amy k

 

 

Just and update

 

 

Well I had another wave - It began last Saturday - it's just now starting to lift -

 

The waves are not as bad as they were, but they are still very anxiety provoking and I feel like I don't want to live and all around horrible -

 

Also Last Wednesday I started taking 4800 mg per day of fish oil ( 720 mg of EPA and 480 dha)

And 4000mg of vitamin d

 

So far I don't feel it's negatively impacting me -

 

But my restless legs have gotten pretty bad lately -

[Vonnegutjunky]

Next update - as of Friday October 21, I have been 100% symptom free in this window and feel pre withdrawal (perfectly fine and like my normal old self)

 

I am not naive and know by now that another wave will come and knock me on my butt, however I have never felt 100% myself and symptom free in any of the Windows I've had in the past 2 years -

 

So I just wanted to post this really positive update - and I now have hope that I can start a very slow and safe microtaper starting in 2017!!!

[Vonnegutjunky]

Also!!!

 

I really need to write this for other people....

 

I began tapering from 20mg to 10 mg last September -

 

I have NOT been in wd

I have been getting rid of akathisia this whole time and other medication side effects

 

I was tapering 5 Percent or less -about every 4 weeks (a few times every 3 weeks)

 

This drug takes a while to get out of your system....

I only say this because I felt a very real delayed reaction in a reduction of my side effects caused by the drug

 

This explains the delayed onset of wd

 

And I have to say it was delayed by about 3 mos

 

I felt immense reduction of symptoms about every 3 months(I kept a diary)

 

I don't know now to combat this - but even at those small reductions and for me to take a year to go down 10mg, I would not notice any real meaningful change for about 3 mos - (I say meaningful because some times I would notice a next day placebo effect after each drop, that would only last a couple of days)

 

So even if I'm dropping slow and waiting 3 mos in between drops, I'm dropping again right as that delayed wd starts, I'm thinking this is going to create a build up and cause some bad problems like it did before for me ..... I wonder if larger drops and holding them for much longer may be beneficial for me? Dropping once every 6/8 mos?

 

Any ideas?

[stan]

hi,

 

for me you are living a classic situation, your nervous system adapted to an amount of drug and as long as you take it, you are functional, this is the case of many people who take daily their prescribed dose

 

but with time all this people are not very well every day, classic, when too much bad, the doctor adds a new drug or makes a switch and all goes on for a while until same happen again and again the classic solutions

you are noticing, it is normal, today i have this, yesterday no, this is better, this is more bad and so on ...it is with no end because it is a normal situation and feelings while on a drug

i lived 12 years as this and could add 12 more and being functional(not perfekt, drugged but not feeling myself much drugged, only other people notice i am not normal and tell me, but i hide i was eating daily drug)

 

the problem begins when you want stop the drug, you tried slowly --> not good, now you think if maybe quicker ?

 

Mapleleafgirl  weaned one time quick, reinstate, then over years, thought out of the wood, and today back to start case drugged again or not functional

i read other stories i do not remember name, same 

 

so, for me, actually with what i know, a quicker or a slow taper will not change much the result

 

i made an eleven months taper, as you i took 10 mg paxil(half dose) 10 years and 1 year 20 mg and switched to citalopram to taper

i had as you akathisia and the rest 

today not functional after more than 7 years, only better

 

if i was on the pills until today, i think i would be more functional, not very well, but more functional

 

but my body became so hooked on these 10 mg to function, that if i put them away, he can no more function, and i can no more take it again, because of risk of adverse reaction now

 

so you think quicker taper... for me the problem is else where, will your cns able to function without your daily dose ?

 

the taper is secondary and taper slowly helps suffering but is no guarantee for the real problem, 

for some, the cns function after 2 years, for other not, and takes years and years, in France they say it is our own metabolisme of the drug wich plays the most important part...

[Altostrata]

vj, good to hear how you're managing your taper.

 

Well, on the bright side, you are taking a lot less and having fewer side effects.

 

I can understand your frustration at how slow it is for you. To speed up, I would try more frequent decreases rather than bigger decreases. But first, you'll have to judge for yourself: Are the withdrawal symptoms you get 3 months after a drop tolerable? Would you want to deal with them more frequently?

 

If not, your body is telling you this is the rate it wants to go.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Update - things have been ok-

I have been functional - but I still get waves -

 

Yesterday I felt Horrible cog fog, anxious, just all around bad -

Well I forgot to take my Paxil last night and I woke up feeling great - so much better than I have in a while - I even felt moments of real happiness - something' I haven't felt in 2 years -

 

So I think that's a sign for me to continue to reduce -

I've been at 10mg for 6 mos now -

I'm going to start filing down tonight .5 mg

Fingers crossed!!

[Vonnegutjunky]

Update : 

 

hello everyone-

i haven't posted in a while- 

 

i am still at 10mg of Paxil -

 

but the the most recent change is that during my Windows I now feel completely normal - there is a caveat-

i take my med every 30-36 hours instead of every 24 

i still get waves - they are much better - 

I don't know if taking my pill 6-12 hours late really makes a difference, but I notice that I feel better when I skip it altogether.

 

hiwever I am very worried about withdrawals; which is why I haven't continued tapering- the Windows I get now are wonderful and I am so fearful of messaging that up- 

 

i hope everyone is doing well 

[AmyK]

Good to hear from you, VJ. 

How wonderful that you feel stable and normal. Then you know that you can do this, very slowly. 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thank you Amy - I still get waves that scare me very bad - I am waiting for those to stop and then I will start my taper - 

[miT]

Use the windows to learn cope with the waves. 

 

Waves will be part of your taper experience. It doesn't mean you have to updose. Anyway go slow. Dropping .5 sounds like a good idea.

[Vonnegutjunky]

So I got myself in a conundrum- a few months ago I forgot my medication on our vacay and I had to wait 38 hours to take it - well, the result was me feeling more fabulous than I had in 2 years -  after my dose increase 2 years ago I kindled on my Paxil and got akathisia - it took me a year to reduce from 20 mg to 10 mg, but even after I did that, I still was trying to stabilize before further reducing - anyway - a few months ago I realized if I take my med, just a little later than every 24 hours (30-32 hours) I felt so much more normal- 

 

so after doing this for a while I started taking it again, every 24 hours, that was 3 weeks ago, the other day I started feeling that akathisia again, that horror and urge to move my head- so I skipped last nights dose and I feel much better 

 

so now I want to reduce- however, I am NOT going to take this pill every 24 hours while at 10 mg or even 9 mg - NOWAY NO HOW

 

but I don't want to reduce too quickly either for fear of wd - 

 

my goal is to get down to 7.5 and try to stabilize there for awhile, maybe forever if I feel ok(please don't bombard me with the dangers of antidepressants I've been on this med for 11 years now and am not willing to struggle for the rest of my life with protracted wd, I'd rather be dead) - right now my goal is to reduce because this pill makes me feel horrible -

 

so my question is what would you do if you were in my situation? 

 

I am considering going from 10 mg every 30-32 hours (which I feel relatively normal at) to 8.5mg every 24 hours - then eventually down to 7.5 before I take a long taper break 

anyone good with math? 

[dreamspirit]

Hi Jennifer, haven't chatted in awhile but I'm still tapering too, very very slow. 

The person that is awesome in math here is Tom (Brassmonkey). I'm sure there are others too. 

 

I taper really really slow too like you but that's ok that we do that we need to function. 

 

But i I have no idea what I would do in your current situation. I'm sure someone here can give you some insight. 

 

If you ever want to chat you know where to find me 🙂

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks so much- if all else fails I will just drop to 9 mg every 24 hours - I'm so nervous to go down below 10mg - I really am so incredibly scared - just the thought of it makes me sweat with anxiety - the last time I went below 10 mg was not good at all  

[dreamspirit]

Oh I hear ya! I get scared anytime I drop. It's the unknown. The last crash I had traumatized me. So now I'm scared . 

I really hate it. 

[brassmonkey]

Why would taking 8.5mg every 24 hours be acceptable when 9mg every 24 isn't?

 

That aside, I'm finding the idea of dosing every 30-32 hours interesting.  A drop from 10mg to 8.5mg is too big in either case (24 or 32 hours).  A drop to 9mg is more in line as that would be 10%.  Before doing the actual drop I would treat the dosing schedule change as a "Dose Change Event" and stick with just the change to 32 hour dosing for six to eight weeks before making any other type of change.  

 

I also still highly recommend doing a Brassmonkey Slide to minimize WD symptoms with each drop.

[Vonnegutjunky]

First thank you so much for your reply Brassmonkey

SA is so much better to read and so much more helpful when your not in the throwes of akathisia - I only recently realized I had kkidled on my Paxil with the result of akathisia - and I am now getting to some semblance of normal during windows 

 

 

I guess I am just afraid that 9 mg every 24 hours will make the akathisia return? I am just very scared of increasing at all.  (Because 10mg every 24 hours causes it to return) And I'm scared of going down - I'm scared and grouchy all the time now  but happy I don't feel akathisia 

 

I will do the 32 hour dosing for a while - once that time is done what should I do? 

 

I guess  I could go to 9mg every 24 hours but like I said when I take this med every 24 hours I start getting the urge to move And I can't deal with that - I spent 5 months with constant akathisia thinking I was really going insane, not realizing it was the drugs, so I tapered slow, over a year, while having akathisia off and on the whole time - and I don't think that's a smart thing to do when you have akathisia, I think you should taper quicker, because there was too much medication in my system and I wanted to die every single day - I swore I would never go that slow again to get the med out - withdrawal was a cakewalk compared to kindling on this med -

 

That's why I am so nervous and scared- I don't want to get akathisia during withdrawal either -

 

what is a brassmonkey slide? 

 

[brassmonkey]

I think you might have hit on something with the 32 hour dosing instead of the 24 and may want to follow up on it with a hold using that schedule.  Then depending on how you feel at the end of the hold try a drop to 9mg per 32 hours.  

 

The Brassmonkey Slide Method is a way to do a 10% taper every 6 weeks that minimizes the symptoms of the drop by spreading them over four smaller drops. Doing 2.5% a week for four weeks then an additional two week hold is the original method.

[Vonnegutjunky]

So it's a cumulative effect of 10% over 4 weeks? 

 

Below 7.5 I think that will be something I will try - Paxil is pretty strong- I didn't really feel withdrawals the first time until I was 2 months into my 5mg dose 

[brassmonkey]

That's it, with a two week hold to let things settle out.