Vonnegutjunky: Paxil 10 mg for 8 years - partial wean with reinstatement

[Vonnegutjunky]

In the ER today because of punemonia - I used to get it once a year, haven't had it in awhile but I knew yesterday I was probably getting it-

they gave me 60mg of prednisone and a breathing treatment - I feel better - jittery from the prednisone - I hope this does not trigger a wave

I have been feeling so good lately emotionally, leave it to my lungs to throw me off course

My lungs have been bad since I was born- have always had breathing issues -

Xo

[PapaBear]

Hi Vj,

I am sorry to hear that and I hope you are recovering very soon!

Best, PB

[oskcajga]

Let us know what happens.  I would definitely not be surprised if you felt "off" as a result of this experience, but stay in touch over the next week or so and let us know how you do.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks guys -

I will not be filling the prednisone script - they gave me 69mg at the hospital - I didn't want to take it because it causes me anxiety, but I haven't slept for 2 days due to my lungs, so lesser of two evils at this point, it worked a light that I don't feel I need it anymore - if I can't walk due to breathing issues then I will reconsider it - I also have an inhaler - Albuterol it makes me jittery as well-

 

I had some head wooshes tonight, and a couple of neuro emotions- they were fleeting but started getting the health anxiety going, which is why I got on here- it could be the meds, it could be the stress of sickness or lack of sleep, or over the counter meds (expectorant and decongestant) that I was using - or all 3

 

Does anyone know if either of these meds is likely to cause a wave trigger (specifically the prednisone or Albuterol) ? I feel grateful that I have been almost a week without one, and I am still pretty fearful of having one -

 

One thing that I did today was talk to my bff about going to Switzerland to see her- I have never been on a plan due to anxiety ( Paxil never stopped my phobia of heights) but now I am ready to go anywhere and do anything- I am no longer afraid of heights, planes, trains, roller coasters-

 

There are definitely dates worse than death -

It's withdrawal-

I am so excited to start living to do all the things I wasn't for do in life but was always too scared

My fiancée took me for a rid in his moms Miata to other day with the top down- I stood up while we were driving and it was so much fun! I had no fears -

 

Withdrawal gave me bravery.

[LoveandLight]

Brilliant

[oskcajga]

Thanks guys -

I will not be filling the prednisone script - they gave me 69mg at the hospital - I didn't want to take it because it causes me anxiety, but I haven't slept for 2 days due to my lungs, so lesser of two evils at this point, it worked a light that I don't feel I need it anymore - if I can't walk due to breathing issues then I will reconsider it - I also have an inhaler - Albuterol it makes me jittery as well-

 

I had some head wooshes tonight, and a couple of neuro emotions- they were fleeting but started getting the health anxiety going, which is why I got on here- it could be the meds, it could be the stress of sickness or lack of sleep, or over the counter meds (expectorant and decongestant) that I was using - or all 3

 

Does anyone know if either of these meds is likely to cause a wave trigger (specifically the prednisone or Albuterol) ? I feel grateful that I have been almost a week without one, and I am still pretty fearful of having one -

 

One thing that I did today was talk to my bff about going to Switzerland to see her- I have never been on a plan due to anxiety ( Paxil never stopped my phobia of heights) but now I am ready to go anywhere and do anything- I am no longer afraid of heights, planes, trains, roller coasters-

 

There are definitely dates worse than death -

It's withdrawal-

I am so excited to start living to do all the things I wasn't for do in life but was always too scared

My fiancée took me for a rid in his moms Miata to other day with the top down- I stood up while we were driving and it was so much fun! I had no fears -

 

Withdrawal gave me bravery.

 

It could also be the side effects from 20mg of paxil that you're taking and it's lowering your inhibitions.

 

That's not a small dose for anyone, it's quite high actually (I'm guessing you're probably under 150lbs, and thus it's a weight specific issue as well).  I suspect that more and more, your symptoms are side effects from paxil rather than the lingering effects from your previous taper at this point.

 

Ultimately it's impossible to tell, I certainly can't - but in my prediction and opinion you have a long and arduous journey ahead of you.

 

I hate to be pessimistic, but considering your situation I cannot help but be pessimistic.  I understand that you have temporary windows here and there, but my prediction for the future is a slow decline in function as the 20mg of paxil continues to produce more and more profound neuroadaptations.  this is just my opinion, I hope I'm wrong - but I do not think that I am.

 

In my opinion, your only hope is a reasonable taper sooner rather than later.  Paxil is a terrible poison and you're taking a very large dose of it - after already having an adverse reaction to a taper.  I cannot see how continuing to take it is in your best interest long term.  I know a stabilization is recommended, but that is usually at a lower dose, not a whooping one.  It seems dangerous to me to stay at such a high dose of paxil for any length of time. 

 

In my opinon, this experience is going to cause a disruption in your life - no amount of stabilization is going to make that go away.  The fear of withdrawal can be just as dangerous as the withdrawal itself.

[Vonnegutjunky]

I was on 20 of Paxil for many years - I actually feel like I always have except I now no longer fear death- I really don't - it's because I have experienced something horrible by being in wd and at the same time experiencing start up effects-

 

I still have anxiety everyday

I still feel depression

And I am still very inhibited - I always have been

 

But I am not afraid of it at all

I know you mean well osk

But withdrawal gave me perspective on what it means to live life and to not sit and waste away time - before my failed taper I sat around all day and did nothing but work and feared everything (I was on Paxil then) -

I will not be starting a taper for at least a year and at that I am going to do MapleLeafGirls taper- it will take me 7-12 years to get off, but that's what I'm going to do so I can function -

[Vonnegutjunky]

Also I have had a window for over a week now - an no I'm 180- in not small- I'm a size 14 -

 

I actually feel better everyday-

 

So I am going to hold as this past year has been the most horrible life disrupting hell on earth for me

 

Now I feel normal again, I can work and function again and I feel happy again, I'm going to stay right here for as long as I can - I need to do more therapy and get into a regular sleep/exercise routine before I start coming off this drug -

[Vonnegutjunky]

Update

Have had a 3 day migraine- starting to feel bad again- going through a wave not sure if it will get worse - I was doing so well and then I got sick- I'm still sick but slowly recovering

 

Getting sick always causes me to get depressed - been like this my whole life

 

I don't feel as bad as I did from May- August - back then I was at a 3 out of 10

 

(1 feeling worst 10 feeling great)

Today I'm at about 7.5

This past week I was at a 9

 

However I do not feel zombiefied/ cognitively off/ numb/ spacrd out/unmotivated/ suicidal

 

But I can feel my anxiety and worry creeping up again; hyperfocused on my feelings -

 

Don't know if this stuff is migraine related or withdrawal or meds not working

Will ride it out and see what happens -

I hate the visual issues that I get with my headaches - they are always so strange -

[LoveandLight]

So sorry but! You will feel good again x

[Vonnegutjunky]

 

Thanks guys -

I will not be filling the prednisone script - they gave me 69mg at the hospital - I didn't want to take it because it causes me anxiety, but I haven't slept for 2 days due to my lungs, so lesser of two evils at this point, it worked a light that I don't feel I need it anymore - if I can't walk due to breathing issues then I will reconsider it - I also have an inhaler - Albuterol it makes me jittery as well-

I had some head wooshes tonight, and a couple of neuro emotions- they were fleeting but started getting the health anxiety going, which is why I got on here- it could be the meds, it could be the stress of sickness or lack of sleep, or over the counter meds (expectorant and decongestant) that I was using - or all 3

Does anyone know if either of these meds is likely to cause a wave trigger (specifically the prednisone or Albuterol) ? I feel grateful that I have been almost a week without one, and I am still pretty fearful of having one -

One thing that I did today was talk to my bff about going to Switzerland to see her- I have never been on a plan due to anxiety ( Paxil never stopped my phobia of heights) but now I am ready to go anywhere and do anything- I am no longer afraid of heights, planes, trains, roller coasters-

There are definitely dates worse than death -

It's withdrawal-

I am so excited to start living to do all the things I wasn't for do in life but was always too scared

My fiancée took me for a rid in his moms Miata to other day with the top down- I stood up while we were driving and it was so much fun! I had no fears -

Withdrawal gave me bravery.

 

 

It could also be the side effects from 20mg of paxil that you're taking and it's lowering your inhibitions.

 

That's not a small dose for anyone, it's quite high actually (I'm guessing you're probably under 150lbs, and thus it's a weight specific issue as well).  I suspect that more and more, your symptoms are side effects from paxil rather than the lingering effects from your previous taper at this point.

 

Ultimately it's impossible to tell, I certainly can't - but in my prediction and opinion you have a long and arduous journey ahead of you.

 

I hate to be pessimistic, but considering your situation I cannot help but be pessimistic.  I understand that you have temporary windows here and there, but my prediction for the future is a slow decline in function as the 20mg of paxil continues to produce more and more profound neuroadaptations.  this is just my opinion, I hope I'm wrong - but I do not think that I am.

 

In my opinion, your only hope is a reasonable taper sooner rather than later.  Paxil is a terrible poison and you're taking a very large dose of it - after already having an adverse reaction to a taper.  I cannot see how continuing to take it is in your best interest long term.  I know a stabilization is recommended, but that is usually at a lower dose, not a whooping one.  It seems dangerous to me to stay at such a high dose of paxil for any length of time. 

 

In my opinon, this experience is going to cause a disruption in your life - no amount of stabilization is going to make that go away.  The fear of withdrawal can be just as dangerous as the withdrawal itself.

 

Osk

I have to say I have read and re-read your posts multiple times since you've posted and I am actually pretty upset with what you wrote- I feel like you are tryig sabotage me and my mental health -

 

Do you not think that I don't want to get off Paxil?! Do you think I want to be on 20mg? Do you have any idea of what my life was like at 10mg?

I have children I need to care for - I have a family who depends on me - and a grandchild-

I do not have the luxury to just come off this medication sooner than later-

If I had to stay on my meds in order to raise me children I would think that some one such as yourself who is suffering long term protracted withdrawal would understand why staying on the meds may be the lesser of two evils for some of us, so we can function and take care of our responsibilities-

 

I do not want to be on Paxil but I am in it and have been for 9 years -

It's not the choice that I voluntarily made

But it is what it is and for now I'm kind of stuck considering my life circumstances-

And your rubbing salt in the wound is not helpful -

[oskcajga]

You do seem to have gotten much better since your posts 3 months or so ago - but now that you're better, I think you should start tapering.  If I were you, my #1 goal would be to start tapering 5% or 10% once you feel "good enough". 

 

I am glad that your reinstatement seems to have worked.

 

I apologize if my previous posts are pessimistic.

[Vonnegutjunky]

I appreciate your reply -

I am still very depressed - I am just no longer confused and incapable of concieving time and space -

yes once I get out of this depressive hole I plan on doing a slow taper- additionally I am in the process of making difficult life changes -

diet and exercise have never been on my radar and trying to get in a routine is not easy-

I am doing it but I need to make slow changes - and I am still having visual disturbances - I need to take things slow -

And you are right - I am fearful of withdrawal - I think because I am not ready yet -

 

But I am not going to sit on my ass while on Paxil anymore

I'm going to life my life - do things I have been afraid to do - go on a plane -

I refuse to let this medication beat me -

[servadei]

"Withdrawal gave me bravery."

 

Me too. I was traveling with a plane the first time in my life and when I was on antidepressants I felt terrified by the idea of being so high. But when withdrawal kicked in with DP/DR I couldn't care less if I die. I felt like 'whatever' through the flight.

[Vonnegutjunky]

My thoughts exactly servadei!!!❤️❤️❤️

[Vonnegutjunky]

I am throughly sick of feeling horrible - like an alien who cannot remember anything!!!! I am tried of waiting to get better when I am not - I have a few good days here and there but I feel like crap- I am starting my taper tonight - I am going down to 17.5 because I do not have a scale or the proper equipment to make a liquid - I will make this taper long - and see how it goes - I'm so sick of my ears rinigning I'm about to lose my mind!!!!!!!!!!

[AliG]

 I think you're doing "awesome", VGJ.

 

Can I ask why you don't have a scale or proper equipment ?  Just curious ?

 

Hang on, you'll be fine .    Ali.

[Vonnegutjunky]

I never got any of it and I just got to my wits end tonight and decided to get the courage to begin my taper - I knew if I didn't do it when I was throughly frustrated and irritated I might lose the courage a wait even longer -

 

I am going to see my doctor and ask for liquid or compounding dose -

 

For the next 6 weeks I am going to stay at 17.5 and from here make 5 or 10 percent tapers -

 

I just hope wd is not worse than last time - I had read a few horror stories about failed reinstatments and wd being worse after -

 

But I can safely say I feel worse on the 20mg updose than I did on 10

 

I had really long windows on 10- and I didn't rumiNate like I do now - and I have chronic migraines since my updose -

 

Well we will see - I might end up in a looney bin but it's better than feeling liking like I want to hurt myself every single day

[AliG]

  It's going to be fine, V.GJ.

 

I'm loving your "spirit".    Ali.

[oskcajga]

I never got any of it and I just got to my wits end tonight and decided to get the courage to begin my taper - I knew if I didn't do it when I was throughly frustrated and irritated I might lose the courage a wait even longer -

 

I am going to see my doctor and ask for liquid or compounding dose -

 

For the next 6 weeks I am going to stay at 17.5 and from here make 5 or 10 percent tapers -

 

I just hope wd is not worse than last time - I had read a few horror stories about failed reinstatments and wd being worse after -

 

But I can safely say I feel worse on the 20mg updose than I did on 10

 

I had really long windows on 10- and I didn't rumiNate like I do now - and I have chronic migraines since my updose -

 

Well we will see - I might end up in a looney bin but it's better than feeling liking like I want to hurt myself every single day

 

You may find that you are less loony, and more healthy as your tapering proceeds.

 

I'm really really happy to hear about your wise decision.

 

Please stay in touch and let us know how it goes.

[Vonnegutjunky]

I went down last night and my ear ringing has decreased immensely - fingers crossed this was the right decision - I'm still on my omega 3

 

1200 mg per day

 

Should I take more?

[Vonnegutjunky]

Also thanks everyone for the support

[raul]

i think you are in the right way, i am really sure. Lots of hugs.

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thank you so much Raul ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[AliG]

 I'm not sure if there's a limit, ( on the omega 3).

 

You sound better !

 

Is that you in the photo ? ( avatar) ??   Keep pushing through, VGJ.

 

Love,  Ali.    ( I'm glad the ear ringing has decreased. )  Yayy !! 

[Vonnegutjunky]

Ali

 

Yep- that's me

 

Yes I am better! I am always leery to say that as I will feel better and then crash but the ear ringing has definitely lessened

 

4th day of my taper and I'm good -

 

A few dizzy spells but I always have those fro being on Paxil -

 

❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[Vonnegutjunky]

Well it's been a week since my reduction from 20 to 17.5

 

I feel more stable than I have in over 8 months-

Osk really made me angry when he suggested the meds were causing my bad feelings - mostly because I got so scared - but he was right - hence the reason for my freak out

 

At 17.5 I still have some ear ringing - but it's so much better

 

I am not getting mood swings like I used to and I have not thought about harming myself (seriously this was not an issue pre Paxil- during Paxil or during withdrawal) it only happened after the paradoxical reaction after my updose -

 

I feel like this

 

If I could live for 4 months through a paradoxical reaction like that, I will get through wd just fine, and anything that comes post medication

 

I don't know how long to hold at 17.5 but I am so excited to get down to 15

 

After I am back to 10mg I will get scales or liquid or just make my own liquid -

 

 

I'm not scared anymore to come off -

But I am also not going to rush it-

 

I will keep updates

Thanks everyone

 

This was the scariest thing I have ever been through and I hope it stays that way- I don't think I could have endured much more!

 

Xoxox

 

Stay patient everyone

[AliG]

 Hi VJ,

 

.   I'm so glad that you're doing better & feeling stronger.  Stay slow & steady, and I'm sure you will be fine ! It's good that you're not scared to  " come off" anymore, and if you can stay stable , and decrease slowly , you will be successful, I'm sure.   You look pretty & happy in your photo !

Love, Ali.

[LoveandLight]

So happy for you! Fantastic

[Vonnegutjunky]

Thanks everyone -

 

Such a common theme - I announce how well I'm doing then the next day I'm hot by a wave- I can see the hole coming to drag me down

 

It's like I want to find external reasons for the sadness and creepy feelings but I know it's the medication

 

I cannot wait for this to end - I fear it won't -

 

Maybe it won't maybe I am doomed to year and years of this -

 

I regret so much not taking that taper slower ????????????????????

 

I hate this so much

[LoveandLight]

You will be alright xxxx hugs

[PapaBear]

Hi VJ,

I think you are doing great so far and I am pretty sure you will suceed.

I also would have preferred the taper in a more reasonable and slower way but who could have anticipated all this? I mean you can read about it here but that is still way different from feeling it yourself.

So I wish you a very, very long windows.

Cheers,

PB

[nickmanning]

 

The reason is because lexapro is so sedating - Prozac is very stimulating- she said Paxil is even more stimulating than lexapro- my my dad and his sister and one of his brothers are all on celexa ( similar to lexapro) and they all tolerate it very well- there really is a major panic and anxiety disorder in my family- not really depression too much-

 

my anxiety started when I was a toddler - I remember my first anxiety attack and my first panic attack was in the 2nd grade - this is a genetic issue for me and I have short serotonin alleles -

 

but I need therapy, not medication- but I can't stop meds now - my reaction to them is extremely sensitive- I have to work and pay bills - I have a kid who depends on me - so if that means switching to another med to stabilize before I taper then I will do what I have to do- I don't want to live my life feeling like this - but hopefully I can stabilize with therapy and then taper

Fingers crossed!!

 

The only reason I ask is because switching to different meds has a lot of risks involved.  In my opinion, if you're going to take a risk you might as well risk switching to a drug that has a longer half life.  That way - if you accidentally miss a dose or something, you won't become totally disabled overnight.  With prozac you can not take the medication for days and days and days and not even notice the effect.   For some sick reason, these drug companies haven't figured out a way to make these drugs have a reasonable half life, so many many many of them stay in your system for only 1-2 days.  Making a missed dose catastrophic - and making the withdrawal reaction very pronounced if you attempt to stop too abruptly.  The brain cannot adapt to a change in 12 hours, that's just very difficult.

 

I'm sorry if this sounds rude - but your doctor is mostly full of crap - the SSRI's aren't more calming or activating than one another - they react profoundly different in all people - generalizing that prozac is more activating than lexapro is just not true.  That may be based on that doctor's clinical experience, but these doctors really know very little and don't see the whole picture.  The collective wisdom on this website is more knowledgeable than any psychiatrist.  Any good doctor will admit that no one has any idea what these drugs do - and any doctor that claims mastery over them is, in my opinion, a serious danger.  All of these drugs (the SSRIs) can cause profound anxiety in anyone that takes them.

 

That being said, If you're functioning on paxil at your current dose, it might be best to just not do anything at all.  It sounds like you're stabilizing, and functioning at a reasonably high level - it might be wise not to risk getting an adverse reaction due to a drug switch at this point. 

 

Love and hugs,

Osk

 

 

I agree with Osk. In my experience, Prozac was VERY sedating. I was so tired that I couldn't do anything! But it's the go-to antidepressant for weaning because of the long half-life. All Dr's should know that. In my opinion, general practitioners shouldn't be allowed to prescribe antidepressant's because, honestly, I haven't met one who knows what they're doing in the depression area. They should leave it to the specialists.

[Vonnegutjunky]

I agree nick -

 

I need some advice -

I had that bad reaction to my updose - I feel better coming off of it - my question is this

 

 

Normally when you have a bad reaction to Paxil with increased suicidal thoughts the docs just pull you off the meds like immediately stop them- do you think I should be dropping quicker than what I am?

 

I am concerned that I am somehow doing more damage by keeping on them longer for a slow taper as they are negatively affecting me -

 

I feel better since my decrease and it's only been a week but I want to just drop to 10 like yesterday-

Would you suggest holding for 2 weeks then recreating again? Or should I stick it out 3-4 weeks before I decrease again?

 

Just want to know what other might do when having a bad reaction to a med-

 

Also I was on my updose for 4 months before I started to taper -

 

 

Thanks everyone!

[Vonnegutjunky]

Let me correct that - it's been 2 weeks since I started my taper

[Vonnegutjunky]

I also need to address my being hit a wave - I have to say it was minuscule - just a few uncomfortable thoughts and feeling like I want to cry - some anxiety but nothing I couldn't handle - so yes I have some crappy times but I can function and find peace -

 

 

Ears are still ringing - but it's tolerable -

 

I still get double vision in the morning -

But mood is overall stable

 

I still don't feel 100% myself- I don't know if it's left over fear from how I felt or if I will just feel less like this the kit with decrease -

 

Still I'll take this over how I did feel any day!