Trichotomous: I've been off Paroxetine for two months; now eight years

[Trichotomous]

It is November of 2017. Nearly two and a half years without Paroxetine.

 

The anxiety was the worst of it all. That's the crap that drives so many back to the drugs. It took two years before the anxiety subsided. Taking just 12.5mg of DHEA a day has helped balance my cortisol and improve my overall mood. I've been taking DHEA for a year and a half, and have taken it every day for more than a year.

 

Iodine was a bad idea. Bad. I cut out the selenium, too.

 

The fish oil caused or contributed to my insomnia. I've stopped taking that. Now I sleep better.

 

Muscle pain. Tightness and sore joints. Slow recovery from exercise. Unusual levels of pain following exercise. Limping around like an octogenarian. That went on for years. My doctors would tell me that I was just getting old, but this crap was happening in my forties! Turns out my magnesium was low. Blood tests should have revealed it, but no one ever said a word. I take 250mg of magnesium a day—EVERY DAY—and can now stretch and exercise without crippling pain. I don't limp when I walk. I could not run before—I shuffled like an old man—and I was a runner as a young man! My stride is now lengthening by the day. It doesn't hurt to get out of bed. It doesn't hurt to lay in bed. Magnesium is good stuff.

 

I think I am at last past the withdrawal. Took two years.

[bhasski]

1 hour ago, Trichotomous said:

It is November of 2017. Nearly two and a half years without Paroxetine.

 

The anxiety was the worst of it all. That's the crap that drives so many back to the drugs. It took two years before the anxiety subsided. Taking just 12.5mg of DHEA a day has helped balance my cortisol and improve my overall mood. I've been taking DHEA for a year and a half, and have taken it every day for more than a year.

 

Iodine was a bad idea. Bad. I cut out the selenium, too.

 

The fish oil caused or contributed to my insomnia. I've stopped taking that. Now I sleep better.

 

Muscle pain. Tightness and sore joints. Slow recovery from exercise. Unusual levels of pain following exercise. Limping around like an octogenarian. That went on for years. My doctors would tell me that I was just getting old, but this crap was happening in my forties! Turns out my magnesium was low. Blood tests should have revealed it, but no one ever said a word. I take 250mg of magnesium a day—EVERY DAY—and can now stretch and exercise without crippling pain. I don't limp when I walk. I could not run before—I shuffled like an old man—and I was a runner as a young man! My stride is now lengthening by the day. It doesn't hurt to get out of bed. It doesn't hurt to lay in bed. Magnesium is good stuff.

 

I think I am at last past the withdrawal. Took two years.

Thats great to hear.

Would like your help and some time. Greatly appreciated.

 

I am also suffering from the hell of paroxetine since 2 years but still health is far from me. I am just 28 now and body aches as if I am 60+. But with 2 yrs of CT, it has gotten better.

 

I haven't tried DHEA.. would it be a good to try ? What time do you take it - as morning is the most difficult time for me to get up and start? Problems are still like DP, memory issues, fatigue, pssd.

 

I had problem with magnesium in early stages of withdrawal ... 

 

Currently on licorice root powder, curcumin,zinc and ashwangandha at bed time...

 

Please do reply. 

Bhasski

[Trichotomous]

2 hours ago, bhasski said:

Thats great to hear.

Would like your help and some time. Greatly appreciated.

 

I am also suffering from the hell of paroxetine since 2 years but still health is far from me. I am just 28 now and body aches as if I am 60+. But with 2 yrs of CT, it has gotten better.

 

I haven't tried DHEA.. would it be a good to try ? What time do you take it - as morning is the most difficult time for me to get up and start? Problems are still like DP, memory issues, fatigue, pssd.

 

I had problem with magnesium in early stages of withdrawal ... 

 

Currently on licorice root powder, curcumin,zinc and ashwangandha at bed time...

 

Please do reply. 

Bhasski

 

What is CT? Therapy of some sort?

 

When you say you had problems with magnesium, what do you mean? Too low or too high? Was it caused by Paroxetine, or by withdrawal? I know my muscle and joint pain goes back to years when I was still on Paroxetine, and was gradually growing worse. Aside from the limping and shuffling, it was to a point where it hurt just laying in bed, with my back, hips, and knees aching enough to make sleep difficult.

 

When I started taking DHEA, my muscle and joint pain subsided, but remained far from ideal. Some call it an anti-aging drug. My reading tells that it provides an essential hormonal balance to cortisol, the stress hormone. I was having those corticol spikes at night, feeling like I was on fire, my mind obsessing over work. DHEA pulled me back from that. DHEA made me functional, confident, and less fearful. I'm much older than you and take 12.5mg (50mg pills cut into quarters). My kid takes it as well, for his anxiety, and it has helped him considerably. He takes just 5mg, I believe. If you decide to take it, start with a very low dose. Take it in the morning with some sort of protein—even a glass of milk. Don't take it on an empty stomach or with a bunch of carbs.

 

My memory became a big problem during withdrawal. You would tell me something, and I could not remember what you said seconds later. Repeatedly. I do not know what caused it, be it withdrawal, adrenal fatigue, insomnia, or some supplement. It's still not quite normal even now, but then, I'm only recently starting to sleep more like a normal person. I know that DHEA improved my concentration, and likely improved memory with it.

 

When you first take DHEA, for a week or two, you might feel a bit more aggressive. I know I did. That settles down after the first couple weeks. I suppose I feel a bit more "solid" in mind and body when I take it now, more connected to my environment. If I miss it in the morning, I can take it with lunch, or as soon as I get home from work. Never take it at night before bed, or you may not sleep well. I can skip a day and nothing bad will happen. I might feel a little "less" than normal, but that's it. I've not been without it more than a day for at least a year.

 

I settled on DHEA after an initial search for a natural supplement to help with depression, not realizing that I was actually suffering from anxiety. Other supplements presented serious side effects and were expensive. DHEA is cheap—at least what I get at Walmart is.

 

You have to be careful with supplements while going through withdrawal. You're so messed up that you might miss a side effect, or attribute a side effect to withdrawal instead of the supplement you just started. Be sure to research DHEA a bit before trying it, and do start with a very low dose if you decide to take it.

[bhasski]

13 hours ago, Trichotomous said:

What is CT? Therapy of some sort?

 

When you say you had problems with magnesium, what do you mean? Too low or too high? Was it caused by Paroxetine, or by withdrawal? I know

I really appreciate your kind and thorough reply.

 

With CT, I meant cold turkey. I stopped with doctors advice I stopped in 2 weeks, the paroxetine I was taking for 2 years.

I had taken magnesium (150-300mg), but that time I was having constant stomah pains and severe anxiety. It never helped even though it created diharrea like symptoms along with cramps and pain.

 

13 hours ago, Trichotomous said:

My memory became a big problem during withdrawal. You would tell me something, and I could not remember what you said seconds later. Repeatedly. I do not know what caused it, be it withdrawal, adrenal fatigue, insomnia, or some supplement.

I still have this ... feeling same.. I sit with my father on shop.. I literally forget people's name , faces within minutes.

 

I agree your views on supplements... 

most of the things I tried made me worse.. Even omega-3 ... All that is left to discard.

For DHEA, I had thought of taking it earlier but I ended up taking pregnenolone.. it didn't go well after a week, so I stopped. (discard box).

 

I am suffering with fatigue , bone pain, neck pain and other  emotional and cognitive issues. PSSD  is also a torture.

 

I will order DHEA and start with minimum ( 5mg or less) as you said.

I am really grateful for your reply.

[Trichotomous]

9 hours ago, bhasski said:

I really appreciate your kind and thorough reply.

 

With CT, I meant cold turkey. I stopped with doctors advice I stopped in 2 weeks, the paroxetine I was taking for 2 years.

I had taken magnesium (150-300mg), but that time I was having constant stomah pains and severe anxiety. It never helped even though it created diharrea like symptoms along with cramps and pain.

 

I still have this ... feeling same.. I sit with my father on shop.. I literally forget people's name , faces within minutes.

 

I agree your views on supplements... 

most of the things I tried made me worse.. Even omega-3 ... All that is left to discard.

For DHEA, I had thought of taking it earlier but I ended up taking pregnenolone.. it didn't go well after a week, so I stopped. (discard box).

 

I am suffering with fatigue , bone pain, neck pain and other  emotional and cognitive issues. PSSD  is also a torture.

 

I will order DHEA and start with minimum ( 5mg or less) as you said.

I am really grateful for your reply.

 

Perhaps DHEA will help, though you've already taken pregnonolone, which is similar.

 

You have been on an awful lot of medication. What were you trying to treat?

 

I was misdiagnosed with depression, myself, when I actually suffered from generalized anxiety disorder and PTSD. I was on Paroxetine alone for sixteen years, and never more than 20mg. Since quitting, I've been fighting with anxiety, and in my case, DHEA helped out a lot. Counseling has been fantastic, as well.

 

I hope it works for you. Be careful.

[Trichotomous]

Now I'm wondering how do I know how much magnesium is appropriate to ingest daily over the long term? I can go by the way I "feel," but this seems so clumsy.

 

I've noticed it making me gassy. And there are other side effects I'd quite like to avoid!

 

I will bring this up with my doctor and get an informed opinion.

[Trichotomous]

So I stopped Paroxetine back in June of 2015. It is now October of 2018. Two and a half years free at this point.

 

Whenever I read through some of my older posts, they seem to have been written by another person, altogether, and, frequently, another person who had no sense of the powers controlling him. I can usually recognize the limited perspective in which many things were written, allowing me to understand the meandering introspection with some accuracy. That is, I have a bit of sense where my head was throughout the process, so I can get where I was coming from, though I find much of it naive or misdirected.

 

Guarantee that if I read this post two years from now, I'll think myself a hapless fool at this point, as well.

 

There is a lot that changes and grows once you get off the antidepressants. It's as if the stuff puts us into a state of drunken stasis during which our problems are masked and our pain is dulled. Time goes on while remain the same broken thing we were when starting medication. I didn't begin understanding myself and working to improve my life until I was off the drug.

 

Which is not to say that everyone should get off their medication right now in order to improve their life. Rather, in my case, I should never have been on Paroxetine in the first place, and it delayed my healing by seventeen years.

 

Have to get off to work, but needed to put something down and thereby commit to documenting my current state later.

[Snail]

I also started Paroxetine in 1998. I've just started my withdrawal.

Thank  you for sharing your story, it gives me hope

[Trichotomous]

Two and a half years free. I'll start with the supplements I take every day:

 

Super B-Complex

• Vitamin C 150 mg
• Thiamin 100 mg
• Riboflavin 20 mg
• Niacin 25 mg
• Vitamin B6 2 mg
• Folic Acid 400 mcg
• Vitamin B12 15 mcg
• Biotin 30 mcg
• Panothenic Acid 5.5 mg

Vitamin C 1000 mg

• Rose Hips 8 mg

Vitamin D3 5000 iu (as D3 Cholecalciferol)
Biotin 10,000 mcg
DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) 25 mg
Magnesium 400 mg
Zinc 50 mg
Copper 2mg

 

I had tried iodine and selenium, but should not have been taking them. Iodine is no joke—don't take it unless a doctor tells you to. Fish oil caused insomnia and aggravated insomnia.

 

Big change is doubling the dosage of DHEA from 12.5 to 25 mg. The new dosage seems to have heightened sense of self; assertiveness; self-awareness; self-esteem; confidence; determination; emotional drive; energy; and sexual drive; while reducing anxiety; timid mannerisms and emotional response. Sleep has largely improved, to the point that some nights I sleep as I did in my twenties. Not every night is like that, but some. This is a big improvement over three to four hours of sleep a night for a year.

 

As I began sleeping better, my brain started healing faster. Working with a counselor has been great, but at times I found the process slow—even a hindrance or distraction. I began researching on my own a couple months back.

 

I never had clinical depression. I was often depressed as a result of poor life choices and overwhelming anxiety. I suffer from CPTSD thanks to a genetic propensity and a childhood filled with emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. I developed a codependent personality drawn toward abusive relationships, which explains many of my poor choices in women and vulnerability to a covert narcissist with comorbid borderline personality disorder.

 

Back to Paroxetine: The withdrawal lasts years. At least two bad years. The whole time, your emotions are all over the place—up, down, and inside-out. I was crippled with an overwhelming anxiety oftentimes bordering on paranoid hysteria. There are also times when you find yourself in the eye of the storm and the relative calm fools you into thinking you're all better, that you've healed. And then something else happens, you can't sleep for a couple days, and you begin spiraling out of control again.

 

I am very grateful to have been in therapy for the past couple years. It helped see me through some of the really tough periods of my recovery—which remains ongoing, clearly.

 

DHEA has been key to my recovery. I should have upped the dosage long ago—it would have helped get me on my feet faster. Lesson learned. Takeaway is that DHEA provides the natural balance to cortisol, which was behind the anxiety brought on by ending my dependence on Paroxetine.

 

And magnesium doesn't make you gassy. I probably wasn't eating well,  and had no idea what I was saying. Magnesium is a natural muscle relaxant. We get almost none in our modern diet; therefore, supplementing is smart. Lack of magnesium had me feeling 80 when I was 40.

 

Used to get sick every three months or so. Once or twice a year, I'd develop a bronchial infection requiring a doctor or emergency room visit. Not any more. I don't get sick. Like, ever. I cannot remember when last I had a cold. When everyone else in the house and at work has a bad cold, I might feel a little tickle for a few hours, and then it's gone. I attribute this to the vitamin C and zinc. I suspect our American diet is killing the lot of us slowly.

 

I am still not where I need to be. I have not quit my job, when I should have done so long ago. I am exercising regularly. I pursue some hobbies but not the one I am best at, as I've got all kinds of emotional baggage holding me back where I most need strength. There are a few milestones that should I pass, I could count myself well on the road to recovery—but they seem far away at times. Again, emotional baggage. Ghosts. Voices in my head. Crap I can't seem to free myself from. I am doing better, but I am in no way jumping up and down, calling myself "cured."

 

I don't think you get cured from what I have. I think you learn to live with it better, and that's the best you can do. Then again, I hope I am wrong, and when I read this two years from now, I'll just laugh at what a sad idiot I am right now.

 

[bhasski]

@Trichotomous

What a great update !!! So happy you are doing great and are seeing improvements.

I had earlier wrote on your thread that I just saw but have no memory of it whatsoever, even of your SA name - so thats me after Paroxetine and poly drugged history.

 

You mentioned DHEA showing you benefits ... Do you think I should try that ? even though I am scared of supplements as  I have taken many many with no results.

If yes, what time should I take it ?

 

I suffer fatigue, loss of emotions, loss of memory of acts - similar like I mentioned above. Anger, irritation, indigestion... 

 

19 hours ago, Trichotomous said:

 

I am still not where I need to be. I have not quit my job, when I should have done so long ago. I am exercising regularly.

[Trichotomous]

If you are male, I'd recommend giving it a try, but start at a very low dose. I began at 12.5 mg, which is a 50 mg tablet cut into quarters. If you are young—in your twenties or thirties,—I suggest starting even lower, like 2.5 to 5 mg. Cut larger tablets into halves or quarters, as you can save a good bit of money this way.

 

The only caveat is to watch out for aggressiveness for the first week or two. You're not going to go pick bar fights, but you may feel a bit more aggressive than normal. It will pass in a few days and never be an issue again.

 

DHEA is already in your body, but if you are exhibiting cortisol spikes (high anxiety, waking up after only a couple hours sleep) then you don't have enough to balance out your cortisol levels. You can Google "cortisol DHEA" and read up on it.

 

There's no kind of withdrawal if you stop taking it, other than returning to your current state.

[bhasski]

7 hours ago, Trichotomous said:

The only caveat is to watch out for aggressiveness for the first week or two. You're not going to go pick bar fights, but you may feel a bit more aggressive than normal. 

 

Hi, Thanks.

I am 29 yrs. old, Male. 

About aggressiveness, I feel it even  without DHEA as I am irritated and frustrated most of the time. 

 

I will look for the keyword you suggested 

[Trichotomous]

The aggression I'm describe may be different. While on Paxil, I was tired all the time. All. The. Time. And slow. It was difficult to think fast enough to keep up with my environment. This malaise left me irritable in general. Every couple weeks, I'd have a temper tantrum, and act like an ass.

 

The aggressiveness I felt when starting DHEA was of a different variety, something I will describe as assertiveness turned up to ten. That is, I did not want to take any crap, and let it be known I didn't want to take any crap. I would stake out my interpersonal boundaries and be quick to call out anyone who crossed them. In my line of work, teaching at an inner-city environment, I face gross disrespect all the time. There was a brief period when I was quick to jump on anyone who crossed the line. The effect is strongest for a few hours after taking DHEA, then fades, and this only lasted a week or two, gradually becoming less intense during that period.

 

Like I said, it's not as if you will start bar fights or anything so dramatic.

[Trichotomous]

I have been off Paroxetine for four years. I have been using DHEA for three years, and am now taking 50mg per day. I have learned to take an iodine tablet once a week, as its ability to curb stress is phenomenal, but I clearly had a negative reaction to it when I tried a daily dose. Right now, once a week takes the edge off. The DHEA has restored my energy levels, sexual function, clarity of thought, and keeps the constant fear from driving me insane. I find myself assertive, rather than aggressive or timid.

 

Emotional disregulation was behind the years of explosive tantrums.

 

I can still experience cortisol spikes and insomnia if I wear myself thin with overwork, caffeine, and late nights (at work). A medical emergency in the family had me up nearly all night list night. I may have had two hours of sleep.

 

I continue seeing a therapist. I had cut my appointments back, but I think I want to return to more frequent visits. Knowing what is wrong is not the same as healing what is wrong.

 

School is out in a few days, and I really need to get away from all the violence and crazy.

[Trichotomous]

On 4/16/2017 at 8:42 AM, Trichotomous said:

Caffeine is a devil. I have to watch it very carefully, and would likely be better off if I avoided it altogether.

 

Caffeine is a devil. Caffeine is poison. I actually stopped drinking coffee a couple months ago, after 30 years of it. I will never touch that crap again. Toward the end of last year, I became acutely aware of how coffee put me on edge and left me agitated for hours. I had no energy, unless I had recently consumed caffeine. I felt slow-minded, unless I has recently consumed caffeine. Now, my energy levels remain fairly stable throughout the day, until that final hour or so before bed, when I can feel myself winding down. It is nice to come home at the end of the work day and not feel exhausted.

[Cocopuffz17]

5 hours ago, Trichotomous said:

 

Caffeine is a devil. Caffeine is poison. I actually stopped drinking coffee a couple months ago, after 30 years of it. I will never touch that crap again. Toward the end of last year, I became acutely aware of how coffee put me on edge and left me agitated for hours. I had no energy, unless I had recently consumed caffeine. I felt slow-minded, unless I has recently consumed caffeine. Now, my energy levels remain fairly stable throughout the day, until that final hour or so before bed, when I can feel myself winding down. It is nice to come home at the end of the work day and not feel exhausted.

I personally started drinking coffee from

the withdrawals. The fatigue was so crushing I needed to. I definitely lowered it as my fatigue improved. 
 

I am glad to read your success after many years on this medication. It destroyed my body and my doctors never ever questioned it. Now I know have been healing ever since! 
 

All the best! Thanks once again for sharing your story! 

[Trichotomous]

It is 2023. I have been without Paxil for some eight years. My life continues to be a struggle, as is the life of most everyone, if we were all honest with ourselves and to each other.

 

Over the past six years, I've often thought of updating this thread to track and share my experiences, but have clearly not made the time. There is always something demanding attention elsewhere, or there is the need to curl up into a ball and hide from the world. Regardless, here we are.

 

I recognize scarce bits of myself in early posts. I feel like I am reading the rantings of a mad stranger. Mad as he was, he was not always wrong. That job was hell. There were people actively trying to drive me out. My immediate boss was a neurotic beast who delighted in hurting others, herself with a boss who thought herself omnipotent and also delighted in hurting others. Eventually, that behavior caught up to them. Unfortunately, the misbehavior did not catch up to the entire lot, and the job continued being the major stress in my life. I mention this not to carry on with a rich tradition of whining about the job, but to document that I was not wrong about the job: There were terrible things going on at a point in my life when I was already struggling with mental health issues. That made my recovery nearly impossible.

 

Have I recovered? No, I don't think so. What is recovery, after all? Being perfectly well adjusted, happy, and successful? I certainly am not that. I am still a mess, but in different ways.

 

I was not incorrect in saying that I should never have been on Paxil. I suffer from CPTSD or PTSD or whatever it's called this week. I do not have chronic depression—I never have. Rather, a history of abuse has me twisted up so badly that I've never been able to untie all the knots. Paxil did not fix me. It numbed my brain and allowed me to ignore trauma for a few years. Perhaps we should all be getting second and third opinions before imbibing psychopharmaceuticals?

 

We should also be careful about imbibing supplements when we are not in full control of our mental faculties.

 

I see a mad desperation to find something that would fix me in my earlier posts. How many of us are also in dire straights and in no position to objectively discern between fact and wishful thinking during recovery?

 

I take the big vitamin B complex. I take vitamin D. Tests revealed my levels of B and D are low, otherwise. I take vitamin C and zinc, because I think they help fight off illness. I do not take iodine often. It calms me down when I am worked up, particularly when I am angry; however, it becomes toxic if taken regularly. Back when I was taking it daily, or cycling through it, it was making me dizzy, disoriented, and confused. Likewise, magnesium is great, provided you aren't getting too much of it. It can calm one down and relax muscle fibers, but in excess it does the opposite, leading to increased anxiety and nerve pain. I've stopped taking it every day. I may try taking it once a week or less.

 

DHEA continues to be a boon. I take 50 mg every day. There are no noticeable side-effects should I miss a day or two, but I find myself growing increasingly sad and anxious should I go without much longer than that. It bears repeating that I've not noticed acute withdrawal symptoms without, nothing of the level experienced weening myself from Paxil.

 

That is all I'm taking every day: B, C, D, zinc, and DHEA.

 

Of course I started drinking coffee again. I have to laugh when I read my early words, when I was tooting my own horn and feeling full of myself. Yes, I have to be careful not to overindulge. I probably should not drink it at all. Will I ever be able to quit? I do not know.

 

Eventually, I had the opportunity to leave my toxic work environment and find something better. Which reminds me to mention how very wrong the troubled mind can be during recovery. We all want to tack on that happy ending to our stories, and, as I look back, I find any number of instances where I tried to do just that, claiming successes that proved ephemeral, as if they were the very ground upon which I stood. It would be funny but for the bitter authority of hindsight.

 

Recovery is a process, or a journey, and I suspect it is endless.

 

I have not recovered. I am not healthy. At times, I doubt I am sane. I am better in some ways, but worse in others than when last I updated my journey. I must be honest, else I'll come back in another year to explain how I was once again wrong in thinking everything was so much better than it really was.

 

Before I away, no magic pill erases trauma. Therapy does not erase trauma. Trauma is indelible. It does not vanish from one's history despite every effort to the contrary. I argue the best we can ever do is mitigate its long term effects. I am comfortable saying that a healthy environment is crucial to movement along the recovery path. Working in a place that is less toxic (but never perfect!) has been a blessing. The patience of my family has been integral to my growth over the past few years. The objective feedback and guidance found in therapy has been constructive. The past couple years, especially, have done much to heal me, but much work remains.

 

I wish you all well in your own journeys.