☼ Junglechicken

[Scorpio]

Hi jc

 

well the therapist sounding a bit tetchy as you haven’t been going regularly sounds par for the course. Money often clouds issues and can make them more concerned for themselves rather than you. 

 

If you don’t feel she is being helpful walk away, you are fragile and need care and compassion. 

 

Hugs

[Junglechicken]

4 minutes ago, ikam said:

If I do not show for therapy, I have to pay anyway, this is in my contract. 

I think that therapist should not respond from so called countertransference, meaning should appear uninvolved on their personal level. 

 

It may also be that you have felt guilty therefore you may have perceived her as angry. 

This happens to me sometimes, I feel something and kind of project my meanings to others. 

 

Still, I think she should not have stated so strongly that WD affects only small percentage of population. This would upset me if somebody invalidated my feelings this way. I would feel inadequate and hurt... 

 

If I give enough notice, I don't have to pay.  My husband has to pay in advance each month.

 

I didn't really get a chance to argue my case about WD etc., (which as you say shouldn't be necessary), however, as we all know these drugs are like playing Russian roulette with the brain.  Doctors don't know how they will affect each person, so WHY go there at all??  We know the answer to that one as well.

 

Many people on here would advocate talking therapy, alternative medicine (plant-based), exercise and healthy diet, plenty of sleep as a way to achieving improved mental health.  Maybe also making some changes to e.g. job.

 

ANYWAY, at some point today "I'll get over it".

[Junglechicken]

1 minute ago, Scorpio said:

Hi jc

 

well the therapist sounding a bit tetchy as you haven’t been going regularly sounds par for the course. Money often clouds issues and can make them more concerned for themselves rather than you. 

 

If you don’t feel she is being helpful walk away, you are fragile and need care and compassion. 

 

Hugs

 

Thanks Scorpio,

 

Yep, money always a bummer for creating tension.

 

She could have viewed it as a positive time for me to have had "time out" from therapy.  I have to cycle or walk 11k rain or shine to get there.  Its also nice to have time out anyway from psychoanalysis.  Its intense.

 

Normally she is helpful, so I think its money related but of course she can't say can she??

 

Hugs back.

[Scorpio]

Hi jc

 

well the 11k cycle would have required me needing a paramedic not a therapist at the moment.  You are doing so well don’t let the therapist upset you. Looking after my 18 month grandson for the past three days has required all my energy at the moment and now exhausted. 

Hugs

[Junglechicken]

32 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

Hi jc

 

well the 11k cycle would have required me needing a paramedic not a therapist at the moment.  You are doing so well don’t let the therapist upset you. Looking after my 18 month grandson for the past three days has required all my energy at the moment and now exhausted. 

Hugs

 

LOL Scorpio, although I don't believe you...…...needing a paramedic after cycling 11k.

 

I admire you for looking after your grandson for 3 days straight, IMHO that takes A LOT more energy than cycling!!

 

Hugs back

[ikam]

15 hours ago, Junglechicken said:

 

If I give enough notice, I don't have to pay.  My husband has to pay in advance each month.

 

I didn't really get a chance to argue my case about WD etc., (which as you say shouldn't be necessary), however, as we all know these drugs are like playing Russian roulette with the brain.  Doctors don't know how they will affect each person, so WHY go there at all??  We know the answer to that one as well.

 

Many people on here would advocate talking therapy, alternative medicine (plant-based), exercise and healthy diet, plenty of sleep as a way to achieving improved mental health.  Maybe also making some changes to e.g. job.

 

ANYWAY, at some point today "I'll get over it".

I guess, people frequently misjudge therapy with couching, with the latter providing instant shift in mood (but often shortlived). There is an expectation that a therapy will make an instant change... 

I know that you are not expecting this.... 

Therapy is a hard work, I see you have been in a psychoanalytic treatment which is very intense... 

[Junglechicken]

5 minutes ago, ikam said:

I guess, people frequently misjudge therapy with couching, with the latter providing instant shift in mood (but often shortlived). There is an expectation that a therapy will make an instant change... 

I know that you are not expecting this.... 

Therapy is a hard work, I see you have been in a psychoanalytic treatment which is very intense... 

 

A friend of mine (same age) was in therapy for the best part of 20 yrs (her parents were emotionally and physically abusive towards her and her twin brother).  Those therapy days are behind her.  She was also involved in support groups, but no longer participates in them.  She told me that she will be learning about herself for the rest of her life.

 

I've been in therapy for well over a year now......it takes a long time for behaviours and attitudes to change.  We have grown up believing we are a certain person (the person our parent(s) had us pegged as), and now (in my case middle age), we have to un-learn those ideas, and re-grow ourselves into a "better"?? version of our now adult selves.

 

I suppose you could call it an "osmosis" of thought change?

 

I am seeing a "psychodynamic" therapist.

[ikam]

I have been in an integrative therapy for around 15 years. It could not have been done quicker. Still some adpects a beyond my comprehension. 

Even when I tried to speed things up I was getting dissociated. 

I am reading an emazing book now "The theatres of the mind" by McDougall, it is psychodynamic. I understand a lot of my psychosomatic/alexitimic structure... 

I trust my therapist, and yes, I am of an opinion that we do learn our whole life... 

Therapy is a hard work in times... 

[Junglechicken]

Well, today could not have gone worse.

 

One of my pottery lamps arrived completed smashed up (thanks to incompetent courier service), and now the company that had written the job description for me have backed out due to my salary expectations.

 

Have responded to them saying I'm happy to negotiate salary and would still love the role.

 

My left leg hurts too 

 

😪

[Dalalea]

I'm so sorry, JC! I know you were so encouraged by the job prospect. 

[Junglechicken]

1 minute ago, Dalalea said:

I'm so sorry, JC! I know you were so encouraged by the job prospect. 

 

Thanks Dalalea,

 

I can only hope they will be open enough to re-open the door to negotiate salary.

 

Its either all good news, or all bad news...…………...never a happy medium, and the good doesn't last for long.

 

That's life I guess.

 

xx

[Junglechicken]

Wanted to report, that the "Slippery Elm" I have been taking really works.

 

For those of you who are curious, take it 20 mins before eating.

 

Have had no issues with reflux etc.,

[Junglechicken]

I must be really weak physically now.

 

Every time I do gardening, the next morning I wake up tired with an aching body.  

 

Thought I had DVT after digging a few days ago.....my lower left leg really hurt for a couple of days and then the pain vanished.  Have lower abdominal pain today and around the bladder, again from gardening.

 

Woke up super tired this morning, aching all over; almost fell asleep during movie this afternoon??

 

Recently had Full Blood count checked, all good.

 

Time to join a gym?

 

[Junglechicken]

I think gardening is too stimulating for my CNS.

 

Just done a load of digging, pulling up ivy, and my hands are shaking, I feel like a nervous wreck.

 

My breathing feels shallow etc., and it also doesn't help my allergies ☹️ and my gut feels a bit off.

 

Really sad about this, as I found something I really enjoyed doing, and its too much for me.

 

Got to learn from this, the trouble is, there is much to do to keep the garden from being invaded by weeds, and keeping the soil healthy etc.,

 

Any advice from fellow gardeners out there?

[apace41]

Hi, JC.

 

It’s not as so much about the activity, I suspect, as it is about the attitude you take towards it. If you could do a little bit at a time and stop when you want and rest and take it over a few days that wouldn’t create a ton of stress. I imagine your personality says “I have to get this done now or it won’t look good and I’ll be behind on my obligations and then I’ll have even more on my plate for tomorrow...”. That is a source of more stress for your CNS.  Gardening can be relaxing or stressful depending on the attitude you take toward it. 

 

Best,

 

Andy

[Junglechicken]

4 minutes ago, apace41 said:

Hi, JC.

 

It’s not as so much about the activity, I suspect, as it is about the attitude you take towards it. If you could do a little bit at a time and stop when you want and rest and take it over a few days that wouldn’t create a ton of stress. I imagine your personality says “I have to get this done now or it won’t look good and I’ll be behind on my obligations and then I’ll have even more on my plate for tomorrow...”. That is a source of more stress for your CNS.  Gardening can be relaxing or stressful depending on the attitude you take toward it. 

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

Thank you Andy,

 

Yes, it most likely is 😕

 

My chest feels tight, pounding heart and "all that jazz".

 

How are you these days? I know you're in a bad wave, thanks for replying to my update.

 

Best,

 

JC

[Scorpio]

Hi jc

 

being an avid gardener I have learnt over the past year you have to take a backwards step and don’t look too much at the weeds but enjoy what is flourishing with the shrubs, flowers that are doing well. When you have days or hours where you feel enthusiastic then do an hour or so of digging, if that is too much then just pick up fallen debris. I am having to teach myself my garden is not the garden that once flourished with summer bedding and weed free soil but I can still get pleasure from the shrubs and camellias, rhododendrons etc that have bloomed fantastically this year without much care and attention from me. 

 

Slowly we will get our stamina back to tackle what comes easily to others. 

 

Hugs

[Junglechicken]

1 minute ago, Scorpio said:

Hi jc

 

being an avid gardener I have learnt over the past year you have to take a backwards step and don’t look too much at the weeds but enjoy what is flourishing with the shrubs, flowers that are doing well. When you have days or hours where you feel enthusiastic then do an hour or so of digging, if that is too much then just pick up fallen debris. I am having to teach myself my garden is not the garden that once flourished with summer bedding and weed free soil but I can still get pleasure from the shrubs and camellias, rhododendrons etc that have bloomed fantastically this year without much care and attention from me. 

 

Slowly we will get our stamina back to tackle what comes easily to others. 

 

Hugs

 

Ah Scorpio, so pleased you love it too!!

 

So it does takes its toll then, all this physical work we have to do?  Hmm, you have a philosophical attitude to it...…………….I think its because I'm a "newbie", that any sensibility gets thrown to one side.

 

A couple of days ago, I discovered the most beautiful floribunda "wedding rose", it had reached dizzy heights, but was hidden by a tree and another tall shrub.  I reckon it was struggling with the competition for light, BUT I have erected a rose arch and now have it trained over it 😀

 

It has beautiful white flowers, and our garden has now changed completely with the arch to walk through.

 

"Slowly, slowly catchy monkey".

 

Hugs

[Junglechicken]

CNS has calmed - took about 2 hrs.

 

The pounding chest has stopped, thankfully and hands aren't trembling like they were.

 

Got to take a leaf out of Scorpio's book (excuse the pun), and just learn that I have to take it eas-ier.

 

Thanks also Andy for stating the obvious.  Sometimes I have to have it pointed out to me, lol.

 

Best,

JC

 

 

[Scorpio]

Hi jc

 

yes just take the pleasure from the established plants for now. The arch sounds wonderful. I long for the days when my enthusiasm and energy returns and I know the garden will take priority over all those house cleaning jobs that have also been neglected. 

 

[Junglechicken]

22 hours ago, Scorpio said:

Hi jc

 

yes just take the pleasure from the established plants for now. The arch sounds wonderful. I long for the days when my enthusiasm and energy returns and I know the garden will take priority over all those house cleaning jobs that have also been neglected. 

 

 

Hi Scorpio,

 

I've been resting today, and really think I'm in the throes of WD.

 

Frequent trips to bathroom, think I've got a UTI or infection "down there", (going to self-test tomorrow), anxiety, depression.

 

Don't feel enthusiastic about anything today...………..

 

We are going to a concert on Thursday, and I have to cycle to see my therapist tomorrow.  I dread having to go anywhere when I'm feeling susceptible to infection and my HA and mood are bad.

 

Its like starting all over again sometimes.

[Junglechicken]

Sorry if this is duplicate information, came across it today:

 

https://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/19/10-best-supplements-for-antidepressant-withdrawal/

 

I find the discussions at the bottom of articles like this most interesting.

[Junglechicken]

Just an observation.

 

My PMS this month was just awful, terrible irritability with my husband and in general.  I felt as though I had been possessed it was so bad.

 

I also think my cycle has been badly affected by stopping ADs (not helped by peri-meno hormonal changes).

 

April - started @ 22 days (lasted 6 days) - N.B 7 days early

May - started @ 22 days (lasted 6 days) - N.B 7 days early

June - started @ 34 days (lasted 4 days) - N.B 7 days late

 

Fatigue has been an issue, as well as gut issues.

 

Gotta keep the faith.

 

 

[Scorpio]

Hi jc

 

im so sorry to read you are struggling. I do know whenever I go into a phase of feeling worse that burning down below also returns. I self tested last time, about a month ago, also went to the doctor in the end as just didn’t trust my interpretation of the self test dip stick but no infection found. Are you taking the bearberry to help. I hope you get some relief soon it’s a miserable pain. 

 

You are not starting again you are on the home straight and like everything with w/d it will bite you when you least expect it. The strenuous gardening would probably have knocked your cns just rest for a few days and gently cycle tomorrow.  Be kind to yourself for a few days especially with your time of month hitting too. 

[Junglechicken]

The 16th June will be my 2 month "anniversary" since stopping Lexapro.

 

I am already in the RED zone...…. meaning, severe WD symptoms tend to hit 6 weeks after stopping the AD.

 

Have to listen to my body more or I'll be in trouble.

[Junglechicken]

3 minutes ago, Scorpio said:

Hi jc

 

im so sorry to read you are struggling. I do know whenever I go into a phase of feeling worse that burning down below also returns. I self tested last time, about a month ago, also went to the doctor in the end as just didn’t trust my interpretation of the self test dip stick but no infection found. Are you taking the bearberry to help. I hope you get some relief soon it’s a miserable pain. 

 

You are not starting again you are on the home straight and like everything with w/d it will bite you when you least expect it. The strenuous gardening would probably have knocked your cns just rest for a few days and gently cycle tomorrow.  Be kind to yourself for a few days especially with your time of month hitting too. 

 

Hi Scorpio,

 

Yes, I take the Bearberry twice daily (15 drops) as part of my supplement routine.  Have been reading how important supplements are when in WD.

 

I'm like you, doing the self test dip stick (and not trusting my interpretation of the result), and then seeing the doc for a second opinion (always best to be safe than sorry with infections).

 

LOL, my TOTM was done and dusted in 4 days!  Its all over the shop.

 

A healthy person's "too much" is light years more than someone in WD, where we can get pushed "over the edge" a lot sooner.  

 

I'm not sure what's going on "down there", it could be muscle strain.  Once again did too much digging 🌷

 

Must not jump to a negative conclusion with this - it won't necessarily end up with infection.

 

Hugs

[Junglechicken]

Another interesting discussion on AD WD:

 

http://www.cchrflorida.org/ssri-withdrawal-effects-are-brutal-and-long-lasting/

[Junglechicken]

Wrist pain (right wrist) has started up, no doubt after gardening yesterday and had pins and needles in left foot earlier.

 

"IT" has begun.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Jungle, 

 

I am responding to the article above.

 

Well it's good as it brings light to the idea that human rights have been violated.  Who is going to take responsibility for that though?  Pharmaceutical companies and the FDA?  The prescribers?   In my case having started medication(s) back circa 1988 or 1990........I  think only a few were aware of potential W/D and false marketing claims to these medications.  Then.  Back when I began my psychiatric career as I like to call it.   Certainly now there is no excuse.

 

Do I want to be a victim now though?  Hell-o no.   

 

Anyway I extracted this section to shed some hope on what can often seem so hopeless.  I like hope.  I don't care much to believe in negative outcomes:

The second phase began 6 weeks after the drug was discontinued. These post withdrawal disorders rarely disappeared on their own. In many cases reactions were so severe that the person returned to his previous drug treatment. Here are the post withdrawal disorders found that lasted for years or became permanent. 

• Tardive dyskinesias  – involuntary movements of the tongue, lips, face, trunk, and extremities (well documented to last years or indefinitely without a known cure)
• anxiety disorders including generalized anxiety and panic attacks
• persistent insomnia
• major depression
• bipolar illness
• disturbed mood
• mood swings
• irritability,
• poor stress tolerance
• impaired concentration
• impaired memory

These effects are horrible enough when read in a list but devastating when read in the victim’s own words.

 

And okay......... as my own N=1 person and now getting close to 4 years off of Lexapro/excitalopram, 3 years off of low dose Adderall, and 1and 1/2 year off of Trileptal/oxcarbazine plus many, many more before that........I hereby attest that the only long lasting consequence I have, to date, is poor stress tolerance.  Truly. 

 

And of course with the poor stress tolerance.......when life events occur that are difficult.........I certainly have more difficulty with the concentration, memory, tears, and the like.  Then it lets up again.  Resilence.  I like to believe in that.

 

Anyway......hope you don't mind Jungle.  I've just been going with the flow of my sadness and pain today.  Now about ready to do something.......just after lunch time here.

Thanks for sharing.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Edited June 12, 2018 by manymoretodays
grammar

[Junglechicken]

Back home after having had an accident cycling to therapy 

 

Paramedics gave me "all clear", but my forehead is still bleeding (superman effort straight over handle bars) with bike landing on top of me.

 

GOT to get a second car.

[apace41]

3 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

Paramedics gave me "all clear", but my forehead is still bleeding (superman effort straight over handle bars) with bike landing on top of me.

 

JC,

 

I'm glad that you are ok -- that sounds scary!

 

I think we are getting to the point where you need to acknowledge that you are in withdrawal and things like "cycling to therapy" are probably not the best idea. There has to be some other way to get there even without a second car.  You are like me -- you don't want to admit you have any limitations.  Unfortunately, at this point in our lives, as a result of withdrawal and its related harms, we do have limitations. 

 

It's something we all need to come to terms with.

 

Best,

 

Andy

[powerback]

6 minutes ago, Junglechicken said:

Back home after having had an accident cycling to therapy 

 

Paramedics gave me "all clear", but my forehead is still bleeding (superman effort straight over handle bars) with bike landing on top of me.

 

GOT to get a second car.

😣 good you ok JC .helmet I hope.  

[Junglechicken]

1 minute ago, powerback said:

😣 good you ok JC .helmet I hope.  

 

No helmet Powerback, the Angels spared me.  Was wearing a sun hat.

 

Lesson learned there.

[Junglechicken]

5 minutes ago, apace41 said:

 

JC,

 

I'm glad that you are ok -- that sounds scary!

 

I think we are getting to the point where you need to acknowledge that you are in withdrawal and things like "cycling to therapy" are probably not the best idea. There has to be some other way to get there even without a second car.  You are like me -- you don't want to admit you have any limitations.  Unfortunately, at this point in our lives, as a result of withdrawal and its related harms, we do have limitations. 

 

It's something we all need to come to terms with.

 

Best,

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy, so am I.  Went smack really hard onto Tarmac.

 

Yes, definitely limitations now due to WD, and I don't enjoy cycling to therapy like I used to (novelty wore off long ago).

 

Tinnitus is ringing even louder now.

 

Ughh!

 

Best,

 

JC

[powerback]

1 minute ago, Junglechicken said:

 

No helmet Powerback, the Angels spared me.  Was wearing a sun hat.

 

Lesson learned there.

I want to pick up mountain biking myself but there's  a missing link in my brain for concentration that would make this dangerous ,the thoughts of being layed up for months in withdrawl with a broken leg is the ultimate hell .so just nice walks for the foreseeable future for me .  

Take care .

[Junglechicken]

5 minutes ago, powerback said:

I want to pick up mountain biking myself but there's  a missing link in my brain for concentration that would make this dangerous ,the thoughts of being layed up for months in withdrawl with a broken leg is the ultimate hell .so just nice walks for the foreseeable future for me .  

Take care .

 

Totally get that PB, I'm the same.

 

Would love to horse ride but too "fragile".

 

You have to be able to react with lightening speed when MTB'ing, I know.

 

Nice walks are better for CNS anyway and recovery.

 

TC