hardy86: Severe fatigue 24/7 Mirtazapine hell

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

Thanks for your reply. To tell you the truth I have never hear of tick-born illnesses. Maybe we do not sure but good question I will find out. Yeah every day is a struggle I was singing along standing next to my sons 2nd birthday and was really depressed I had something to eat and blood sugar levels must of lifted and eased 30mins later. Had tears inside me feeling depressed when I should be happy looking at my son and couldn't enjoy happy moment. I don't know if I'm going to really settle and I should before I make a cut from mirtizapine or roboxetine next not sure. How have you been well? Hope you are.

Hardy

[hardy86]

Being unsettled for 5 months takes it out of you.

Chronic fatigue makes this a whole lot worst as you can't do so much. Can you be unsettled for so long I don't know if anyone here has been at the 6,7,8,9 months mark or longer and came good. It's all hard to believe will I ever be normal again. My second baby is due in 8 weeks.

Hardy

[hardy86]

Hi everyone

Has anyone used or heard of D-ribose being effective for CFS just wanted to know if it's worth a try.

Thanks again everyone for your support means so much to me.

Hardy

[AliG]

Hi Hardy. Sorry that you're still struggling. I was reading some of the success stories , this afternoon  and they really are inspiring . It might pay you to read some. They will give you a lot of hope. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1226-recovery-success-stories-from-around-the-web/page-4

Sometimes, it just takes time and patience. You will get there.

Ali

[hardy86]

Hey AliG

Thanks for your reply. Yeah just so hard at the moment crying and empty. Thanks for the link AliG. I'm not sure what to do with my does reduction next continue cutting rob or start cutting mirt as I haven't cut mirt for around 5months. I recently cut roboxetine from 8mg to 6mg on 14/1/16 I know that's to much my brain forgot the simple rules. I got desperate and thinking it was worth to try something different in helping CFS. I was going to hold for a month at 6mg of roboxetine and 5.5mg mirtizipine. But if I'm not settled for more months not sure if a do a cut on my AD?

Thanks for your kind support AliG I live in a town population of about 80,000 and has hardly no support and resources.

Hardy

[AliG]

Hardy.   Were you put on Roboxetine for panic disorder ?   I wasn't aware that you were tapering two drugs at once.  Robexetine is an A/D as well. As you have been tapering Roboxetine, I would continue on with that , however that is far too fast . We advise a 10 % dosage reduction every 4- 6 weeks, with the 10% calculated on the last dosage. 

http://Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

So , It's been 12 days , since you cut 2 mg ?  You could consider an updose,( to relieve symptoms ),  but  someone with more experience with this drug , should be able to answer your question more accurately.    We don't recommend tapering two drugs at once . In the meantime, please stay as you are.

[hardy86]

Hi AliG

Yeah spot on 12 days since my last cut. The cut In roboxetine hasn't caused any new symptoms still severe fatigue. But I will hold at these doses for abit. I was put on roboxetine cause doctors cold turkey me on mirtizpine 15mg and felt worst so they said take it again mirt at 15 mg then started mixing another AD. Yeah my next move is important confused what to do. As I'm taking 2 AD not sure which one broke out causing the fatigue mirt or rob. But I assume mirt as I have cut this since January 2015 not sure though.

[KarenB]

Hey Hardy,

 

If the cut in Roboxetine didn't cause worsening of symptoms it's probably best to hold at that dose and give your CNS a chance to settle.  Is it very hot in Aussie atm?  In NZ I am much tireder than usual due to the heat. 

 

Could you update your signature to include all reductions of all meds, with dates and amounts?  The more detail we have the better we can help you figure your next move.  Also can you include what dosage of each med you are currently on?  Thanks Hardy. 

 

Karen

[hardy86]

Hi KareB

Yeah I hope someone can give me some good advice what I should do next desperate as I have a new born due In 8 weeks so hard on my family cause me. It's is so so hot where I live a place called darwin 8 months a year it's around 35 with 70% humidity.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Ugh, hardy, your summer is about as bad as mine!  Though we don't have that kind of humidity we do get into the triple digits, so over 38 C for you!  I am dreading our summer.  Last year when I was in withdrawal, the summer heat coming was a big stressor and I had a lot of anxiety and dread going on.

 

Was your thyroid checked, hardy?

 

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

Yeah it is so bad the weather here is awful not many people can live in this state. Yeah I checked my thyroid came back good. I did more test and the CK again as I did no exercise for the week see if they come down. I'm not sure if having high CK is bad for me. Yeah thinking of trying something new supplement soon to give me energy. Coffee worked but stop I think does to small could try more. How are you feeling? I sense you are feeling ok I hope flu cleared.

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hi Hardy, 

 

I'm glad the cut in reboxetine didn't throw you too much, good to stabilize there.  

 

I'm doing ok, though still have a lot of congestion which is wearing. Since I was a kid, I've always had these things settle in my chest and sinuses, taking much longer than for other people to clear.  Scratchy throat makes me cough.  Grateful that I got through the night without a lot of coughing.  I backed off of Mucinex and the like because I don't want to mess up my nervous system more, so trying to let this thing move out naturally. 

 

A friend told me how acupuncture really helped him and his wife with these things.  I've got to look into it.  Maybe that is something that you could look into, because it does not involve ADDING anything to your system.  Check it out!  Let me know what you find out :-)

 

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

Im happy to hear you a doing ok. Funny you mentioned acupuncture I was thinking of that yesterday. I tried it before didn't seem to work but not sure maybe worth giving it another go. I'm desperate to try something to help me with energy so bad this 24/7 fatigue. I'm not sure if this will go on till I'm off med or have people on this forum had this fatigue symptom and can it possibly pass while still coming off med. My 2 baby due soon.

Hardy

[SquirrellyGirl]

Hardy, I have read other people talking about such fatigue at the very low doses of mirt.  They don't talk about the depression, but I think that is a secondary depression due to the fatigue.  Can you remind me what happened when you went from 5.5 to 4.5 mg, that caused you to updose?  How did you feel at 5.5 mg before you cut?

 

I think this awful drug is super sedating to come people, especially at the lowest doses. Certainly when some people start this drug, they sleep excessively into the afternoon, sometimes!   The mods may correct me if I'm wrong, but after another month of stabilizing from the reboxetine cut, if things are still the same, I'd think that perhaps it would be a go ahead for doing a very small cut of mirt.  If it is the mirt causing this, then hopefully it will resolve once you are off or get lower.  But you must go VERY SLOWLY - it is too dangerous at this low end to go too fast, with reinstatement likely not working well.  Much safer to take it micro-slow.  Maybe a 5% cut to start, see how that feels over two weeks.  So that would be 5.2 mg.

 

Something must be about your depression.  I think focusing on the fatigue might be making you feel worse.  I know, easy for me to say since I'm not the one suffering this.  But all we have to work with at the moment is your mind set.  I know that playing music that is peppy brings my attitude up and I feel more inspired to do things.   Listen to comedy, something that will make you smile.  I don't know if you guys have Pandora down there, but I have my Beck channel that I play when I need to tackle some chores, and the beat gets me going.  Then I can feel good about having accomplished a goal.  I also have a stand-up comedy channel that I love to listen to.  Laughter is very healing.

 

You are stuck in a rut, and rather than staying there every day, ,maybe try to do one thing that brightens you up a little.

 

MammaP wrote in a post:

 

 

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 03:44 AM

"This is a great topic. Before I came to SA I found it hard to self soothe, after all you can't think your way out of depression because it's an illness right? For years I was telling anyone with ears how ill I was and I can't pull myself out of it because it's a chemical imbalance. Actually that was probably right in a way because I was messed up by psych drugs. Then I learned about those drugs, their side effects, and withdrawal. Alto's change the channel topic really changed things for me and I learned that positive thoughts and meditating on good things really did help. Laid in bed unable to do anything I could look out of the window at the sky as long as it wasn't too bright. The clouds, the birds that flew across the window and the aeroplanes flying over. I could then imagine the passengers and wonder where they were going on holiday, which prompted memories of past holidays that made me smile. Often the negative thoughts would be there, like was there a terrorist on that plane? But I learned how to replace that those thoughts with the positive ones. My taste is elderflower juice, not too strong just enough to flavour the water. I have a soft throw that I wrap myself up in and feel how soft it is.  I also have fluffy socks like Petunia that I love, and videos of my grandchildren never fail to make me smile however bad I am feeling. 

 

The small things are the most important, and are cumulative, a few small things in a day can make a huge difference. "

 

And it's always worth giving some CBT self help a try, too:

 

http://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/cbtstep1.htm

 

SG

 

SG

[hardy86]

Hi squirrellygirl

Yeah the last time I felt good was at the dose of 5.5mg and then it all went bad when I hit 4.5mg. I stuck on that dose for 1 months didn't settle and was hell so went back to 5.5mg hoping to settle and have been holding for 5 months now and no result and of course developed severe chronic fatigue. This is where I really need help on what I do with my next move do I cut micro 5%? like you maybe suggested even though I haven't settled. Really needs someone's advice as I'm really stuck and in pain.

Hardy

[hardy86]

Yeah really need advice if it's worth doing a micro cut of mirt to 5.2 maybe.but unsure if it's a good idea to see if it can changed bad symptoms. Cause

Been on this dose for 5 months now.

Thanks hardy

[AliG]

Hardy.   I would hold , if I were you. I think you need stability, now. There is a tendency in this process ( I think some here , have said it's a withdrawal symptom) , to want to taper fast. However, the best results usually come from holding until symptoms settle, for quite a while.You are under some stress , and  I think it could serve you well, just to maintain where you are, right now .  You might  have C.F.S.  I think the chances are more likely that you are suffering withdrawal  . Have you been tested?   If you are in doubt, I would go and have the tests done ( if you haven't already ).  You've been holding , but still experiencing symptoms which leads me to believe , you need to hold longer and let your C.N.S. recover slowly and also recover it's equilibrium.

Maybe, have a read through this topic again.

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

It takes patience, but often doing nothing is the best thing you can do.

Ali

[hardy86]

Hi AliG

Thank you so much for sharing me your advice as

I really need right now. I have done general blood test but not sure doc really covered everything came back ok except high CK not sure if it's really bad for me continuing to have high CK do you know much about this? Any other test you think I should cover? Hard to believe this can go so long.

But I will take your advice and hold.

Hardy

[Petunia]

Yeah spot on 12 days since my last cut. The cut In roboxetine hasn't caused any new symptoms still severe fatigue. But I will hold at these doses for abit. I was put on roboxetine cause doctors cold turkey me on mirtizpine 15mg and felt worst so they said take it again mirt at 15 mg then started mixing another AD. Yeah my next move is important confused what to do. As I'm taking 2 AD not sure which one broke out causing the fatigue mirt or rob. But I assume mirt as I have cut this since January 2015 not sure though.

 

Hi Hardy,

 

We don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time and seeing as you are already tapering the Reboxetine, I would stick with that, see:  Reboxetine: More side effects, but no antidepressant benefit ...

 

Even though this drug has been proven to be infective as an antidepressant, it still needs to be carefully tapered in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms. You have been tapering too fast. We suggest reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Once you are safely off the Reboxetine and have stabilized, you can start with the Mirtazepine.

[hardy86]

Hi petunia

Thank you so much for replying on my

Page. I will be honest and just got desperate as I have been unsettled for 5 months then 3 months severe chronic fatigue and nothing was working.

Thank you for your advice.

[Altostrata]

Hello, hardy. I'm sorry you're feeling so poorly.

 

If the fatigue symptoms began when you went off psychiatric drugs, it is unlikely you have true chronic fatigue syndrome. Rather, you are experiencing adverse effects of the drugs.

 

Also, you have a baby, is that correct? Do you have other children, too?

 

Sleep apnea can also cause fatigue. Are you getting at least a half-hour of gentle exercise each day? Do you keep regular hours for waking and sleeping?

 

When you say you feel "unsettled," what do you mean? What time of day do you take your drugs? What is your daily symptom pattern? Keeping notes on paper can be helpful.

 

Reboxetine side effects http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/antidepressants-a-z/reboxetine/#.Vqz9Z_HLKZ8

 

Mirtazapine side effects http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/drugs-and-treatments/antidepressants-a-z/mirtazapine/#.Vqz98_HLKZ8

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and copy and paste the results in this topic.

 

Please do not reduce both reboxetine and mirtazapine at the same time, as this confuses your tapering. Please update your signature.

[hardy86]

Hi altostrata

Thank you so much for replying to my page.

Currently have 1 child who just turned 2 boy and another due on 20/3/16 baby girl. My sleep apnea is under control according to the reading data chip on my machine, the people who supplied my machine give me the readings. I try and still go to the gym 4 times a week but struggle that's the only time I normally get relief and feel good from endorphins and is my favourite thing in life but can't hardly anymore due to this 24/7 chronic tiredness. I go to bed at the same time and wake up the same time everyday on weekdays weekends trying now to do the same. When I say unsettled I mean haven't felt good for 5 months and suffering main symptom being chronic fatigue 24/7 with bad depression a mild anxiety plus so many other side effects. I take my AD same time everyday since I started them Mirtazapine at 10pm and roboxetine at 11am, my daily symptom is horrendous fatigue and depression all day. I suspect if the severe fatigue comes down depression can ease.

Sorry alto had problems putting roboxetine in drug checker didn't come up. I updated my signature but had little problems hope it worked. Bad at computers.

Thanks again Alto your kindness support you give is amazing.

[hardy86]

Hi altostrata

Hope you well.

 

I really question if I'm getting good quality sleep like deep sleep mode at night. It seems like I do but I wake up like I haven't sleep all night and not fresh at all in the morning. I believe this must be all related from coming tapering Mirtazapine now at a low dose. I wonder If reducing Mirtazapine in future at micro 5% maybe? might change anything positive. I guess its very hard to say. Thanks alto

Kind regards

[hardy86]

Hi all

I have taken all the kind advice from use already and have been holding and will hold longer. I just wanna know if I don't settle do I still reduce my AD? Coming up to 6 months not settling and chronic fatigue almost 4 months. I don't know if people have suffered this constant so long. It's really worrying me no positive result so long and doing my best to wait and wait. This gets so intense the pain of depression I cry and cry. The depression side would ease for sure if the bad chronic fatigue would ease.

Thanks guys I'm really stuck deep in a hole.

But I continue to push on and on.

Thanks guys so much for support.

Hardy

[leahy]

 

Yeah spot on 12 days since my last cut. The cut In roboxetine hasn't caused any new symptoms still severe fatigue. But I will hold at these doses for abit. I was put on roboxetine cause doctors cold turkey me on mirtizpine 15mg and felt worst so they said take it again mirt at 15 mg then started mixing another AD. Yeah my next move is important confused what to do. As I'm taking 2 AD not sure which one broke out causing the fatigue mirt or rob. But I assume mirt as I have cut this since January 2015 not sure though.

 

Hi Hardy,

 

We don't recommend tapering more than one drug at a time and seeing as you are already tapering the Reboxetine, I would stick with that, see:  Reboxetine: More side effects, but no antidepressant benefit ...

 

Even though this drug has been proven to be infective as an antidepressant, it still needs to be carefully tapered in order to avoid withdrawal symptoms. You have been tapering too fast. We suggest reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Once you are safely off the Reboxetine and have stabilized, you can start with the Mirtazepine.

 

Hardy,

 

I'm sorry you've been suffering way too long with fatigue, Hardy. Have you considered that maybe Rebozetine is giving you problems? It sounds like our moderators who are very knowledgeable are suggesting tapering Reboxetine first and mirt later. Have you given that a try?

 

Leahy

[hardy86]

Hi leahy

My suffering right now is beyond what a human can take right now won't stop crying and in severe pain I don't know who to turn to in need of real help. That bad not sure where to run this severe fatigue has lead to extreme depression and it's killing me. SG suggested maybe a 5% cut on mirt wondering if cutting mirt could change anything for this severe chronic fatigue? Just my mind playing games with me to which one I continue to cut which might lead to even a slight improvement with this Cfs. Guess very hard to say. But what I do next really really mind going crazy what I do now I can't think straight anymore as been almost 6 months unsettle.

I have a new born due in around 5 weeks and have to travel oversees. Like this I can't go any where so sad.

[hardy86]

Thanks so much leahy my mind forgets simple things when in pain that my cut was to big stupid me. Won't happen again.

[KarenB]

Hardy,

 

If things have been worse since you cut reboxetine from 8mg to 6mg, you could consider up-dosing to 7.2mg, which would be the dose a 10% drop would have taken you too.  It might help things level out a bit sooner.  Then after that - no more big cuts, just stabilising and 10% cuts, or smaller. 

 

I'm sorry there is nothing much we can do about the severe exhaustion etc, other than slowly getting you off first reboxetine and then mirt.     

 

Really feeling for you Hardy,

Hugs,

Karen

[hardy86]

Hi KarenB

Very very kind and means so much for your reply at this stage of me battling. Yeah if I think I have gone worst from cut I'm doing what u said I will give another weeks time. Just started a different brand coffee to see if I can lift a little. Hope you are having a wonderful day KarenB.

Thank you so much again.

[Hopefull]

Hi Hardy86,

It has been a while since I have stopped by your thread.

Is fatigue your main issue?

How are your iron levels?

Iron can help with fatigue.

I take SPATONE liquid natural iron.

It comes from England and it is a natural spring water that contains iron.

Like the spring mineral water in Daylesford, Victoria.

It has a metal taste, but I drink it with orange juice, first thing in the morning.

You get it from the chemist.

Google, Spatone .

 

Have you thought about taking a tappering holiday?

Maybe you need to give your self a chance to stabilize.

I took a break from tappering for almost 5 months.

It helped me to stabilize.

Is mitrazapine helping you at all?

Sorry to read that you are still struggling.

Maybe take a 4 month brake. Give your self a chance to stabilize and heal.

Best wishes, Hopefull.

[hardy86]

Hi hopefull

Very kind of you to pop in on me. Yeah struggling really bad lately. Depression has been bad cause the fatigue has been so awful 24/7 affects your life crying and crying. I guest the fatigue is the big issue that's causes more severe depression. I think I did a iron test before and they come back ok but not sure if they are accurate. Will spatone still benefit me if my iron levels are good? Cause I'm very desperate in trying anything to help me. Coffee helped a little while like a week lifted my energy then my depression eased a lot. But stop working after a week body got use to it. But started again today. I have been holding on both my AD for a while roboxetine and mirt for 5 months to try and settle but then this severe fatigue hit me. Still at mirt 5.5mg for the last 5 months and recently cut roboxetine on 14/1 from 8mg to 6mg. Silly I know it's 25% cut to much brain not thinking anymore. No AD has ever helped me only maybe first 8 weeks then all turn to hell all from mirt. I wake first thing morning not freshed awful. I'm scared of going to doc again as I know they all about meds but passes my mind as I'm really bad and don't want to wake up alive each day lately that's just the truth. I don't know if the fatigue can possibly pass while still on AD not sure if anyone here has had this and it's passed while still on meds. My Naturalpath wants me to start taking L- carnitine, for energy. I wanna try a few supps to see if can lift me. Ginseng, maybe?

Hope you are feeling good hopefull.

Hardy

[KarenB]

Just a thought Hardy - and take it with a grain of salt cause everybody is different:

 

I got more energy when I stopped having coffee.  I think it was because coffee was making me feel so yuck in my stomach, that I would just lie around all afternoon waiting for it to leave my system.  The problem was it was too activating for my CNS, so made me feel worse.  Opposite to the usual energy people get when they drink it.

 

Does it make you feel worse in any way when you drink it?

[hardy86]

Hi KarenB

Thanks for replying to me. I thought I have a coffee again today as it was working before for a good week. And you are pretty much right I come crashing down today after a few hours later, very good point u make. It's weird cause it did work before.

Hope you are having a nice day Karen.

[Fresh]

Happy Valentine's Day Hardy.     Have you ever tried apple cider vinegar (ACV) , (with the mother root) in hot water

with honey?

It soothes the stomach , the ACV is a probiotic , and the honey is healing.

You also get an energy boost from the ACV.

 

[hardy86]

Hi fresh

Happy valentines day to my love. No have never tried that before where do I buy all these ingredients? would love to give anything a try sounds really worth it. Fresh do you think this bad chronic fatigue is caused from AD? It just passes my mind if it's really from AD. To be honest I've been so bad crying and constant depression thought of going back to docs to seek help but I know they are about more meds. Been unsettled for almost 6 months. But I think I would be ok by now if wasn't struck with this chronic fatigue. Need to find something quick and will give what you said a try when I lift my energy the depression eases right down.

Thanks fresh

[Fresh]

There really isn't anything quick Hardy , or we'd all be onto it.    You buy ACV at Coles.

The more nutrients you can pour into your body , the better for healing.  

 

I do believe your fatigue is from the ad's and isn't permanent.    Do you feel noticeably worse

since the big reboxetine cut?

It will all even out eventually , but you might want to updose to 7mg if you feel much worse.