Nyx: Want to come off Mirtazapine.

[Hibari]

I too gained 21lbs from being on Mirtazapine in about 5 months.   It is all in my stomach-it's a fluffy, puffy weight.

 

I have now tapered to a lower dose and am started to lose some weight.  Not the stomach stuff yet but my face and body are a little smaller-I won't get  on the scale till I am off both of my drugs.  A friend of mine who has seen me gain over the past 2 years said she saw a noticeable difference in my weight recently.  So even though I feel puffed up, things are shifting. 

And as SG says, many people talk about weight loss when they come off Mirt, here and other sites.  .

 

Hibari

[Nyx]

Thanks everyone. It makes me feel better knowing it will all eventually sort itself out. I've lost 5 pounds by watching what I eat and counting calories. It's very odd doing that because before my metabolism was like abnormally fast. I never had to worry about what I ate.

 

The bloating in a pain in the butt too. Anybody know what to do about that? I was bloated so badly the other day I looked about 4 months pregnant. 

[Nyx]

If you don't know me and you want my history go here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11756-nyx-want-to-come-off-mirtazapine/

 

So I got myself down to 10ml. I've been doing smaller decreases every 2-4 weeks. I haven't been that good on remembering though so I've missed a day or two here and there. I supposedly should have about 14 days left of pills but I have 28. I got a cold and wasn't feeling well so I missed about 4 or 5 days or so. I didn't have any side effects. But then I started feeling dizzy when grocery shopping three days ago. Which could have been the cold but then I realized I hadn't taken mirt for a bit. My friend who has a lot of experience with antidepressants told me to take it. So I did and I felt like 3 times worse the next day. So I didn't take it the following night and felt way better the next day. Not totally normal but better. Then today... Well I was feeling alright for most of the day then at work the dizziness, disorientation and 'tunnel vision' just hit me like a train. It lasted a few hours then subsided. It's wasn't as bad as what I experienced before (when I literally couldn't do a thing but lay in bed) but then again the last time it got worse and worse. I also didn't know what was causing it though so that increased my anxiety. 

 

So I guess I've kind of put myself in a place where I can't really do anything but wait it out? What would happen if I took like 5ml and worked down from there? I really want to be off these and I'm not interested in tampering for the next year or so... I've only been on them for 5 months.  

[ChessieCat]

Hi Nyx,

 

I've merged your post from tapering into your Intro/Date topic.  This is because it is related to your individual situation and will keep your history in one place.

 

I have asked the opinion of the other mods so someone should get back to you soon.

[Nyx]

On a further note if the advice is to go back on them and get worse before I get better then start tapering again I really can't do that right now. With multiple people on vacation there is literally no one to cover my shifts at work for the next week or so. I've been having to work while being sick. Honestly if I have to put up with how it was yesterday for a few weeks then that is fine because it was mild compared to what I went through when going from 30-15. I just hope it won't get way worse.

 

If anyone is interested in knowing any supplements I'm taking, I am currently taking omega 3 fish oil, vitamin C8 powder (which is a high dose of vitamin c along with a bunch of other stuff like magnesium), activated charcoal (which I take a few hours away from the other stuff) and a B complex vitamin. I just added Rhodiola yesterday. They were all recommended by my health food store. 

[Altostrata]

Taking the drug inconsistently can trigger withdrawal symptoms, as you well know.

 

Seems like you accidentally on-purpose forgot to take mirtazapine. If going off is your decision, so be it. You'll have to cope with any withdrawal symptoms that result. Let your nervous system decide if reinstating the drug can find a place on your schedule, it's not our place to tell you to do one thing or another.

 

I hope you will have a "normal" period of only a few weeks of withdrawal symptoms. Please let us know how you do.

[Nyx]

Taking the drug inconsistently can trigger withdrawal symptoms, as you well know.

 

Seems like you accidentally on-purpose forgot to take mirtazapine. If going off is your decision, so be it. You'll have to cope with any withdrawal symptoms that result.

Yeah I know though it wasn't accidentally on purpose. I'm just not great at remembering stuff. I mean I've been ok up until I got really busy and then got sick. But yeah I'll forget my bc pill if I don't have two different apps to remind me and I definitely don't want to forget that. I know I have to deal with the effects now. My friend said to just take half a dose but I'm not sure if I should.

[Nyx]

Altostrata, I read an older post of yours where you say that manipulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine doesn't work and makes things worse. Also that you shouldn't take drugs and substances that are stimulating such as Rhodiola. I mentioned that I just started on it yesterday so that was definitely something that I think should have been mentioned to me. Or have you discovered newer research and aren't going by that anymore? If I'm doing something that would make me worse I would like people to tell me. Thanks. 

[scallywag]

If you've only taken the Rhodiola one day, you'll probably be fine to stop it. There's an extremely wide range of knowledge at health food stores. Some could be consulting natural health professionals, others are like doctors -- they only know what the manufacturers tell them.

[Nyx]

If you've only taken the Rhodiola one day, you'll probably be fine to stop it. There's an extremely wide range of knowledge at health food stores. Some could be consulting natural health professionals, others are like doctors -- they only know what the manufacturers tell them.

 

I took it this morning (before I read it might not be that great) but felt fine. I have a really bad headache right now (it's almost 11 pm here) but that's the worst I've gotten today. I actually read that it was good here: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/19/10-best-supplements-for-antidepressant-withdrawal/

 

I have a sleeping disorder and since I'm off caffeine I need to find something to give me energy and keep me focused. I find Rhodiola helps but if it will make things worse I don't want to take it.

[Altostrata]

Neuroactive substances such as rhodiola are unpredictable. The only supplements we widely recommend are fish oil and magnesium, see
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

A wicked headache after going off psychiatric drugs is not good. It could be a withdrawal symptom, it could go on, and it could get worse.

 

Or it could go away.

 

It would be best if you researched something first before trying it -- see our Symptoms and Self-care forum  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/-- rather than telling us afterward and asking us what we think.

 

 

[Nyx]

Neuroactive substances such as rhodiola are unpredictable. The only supplements we widely recommend are fish oil and magnesium, see

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

 

A wicked headache after going off psychiatric drugs is not good. It could be a withdrawal symptom, it could go on, and it could get worse.

 

Or it could go away.

 

It would be best if you researched something first before trying it -- see our Symptoms and Self-care forum  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/-- rather than telling us afterward and asking us what we think.

 

I Googled  "supplements that are good for antidepressant withdrawals" and Rhodiola came up as one. There really seems to be very little information out there. 

[scallywag]

Next time after your general search, do a specific supplement search on this site using google with these search terms:

survivingantidepressants +topic Rhodiola

 

Substitute the supplement of interest for Rhodiola.  If no results, delete +topic.
 

[Christian]

Nyx,

I'm on Mirtazapine as well for the least 5 months at 15 MG. though initially the added sleep during my Lexapro WD was welcomed. But after 60 days on it my sleep became very non restorative. It's effected reading, vision, watching TV, speech, and maybe caused increased fatigue. In waiting on the results on a sleep study to confirm my theory that it took my slow wave sleep away. Do you feel your sleep is good? Do you feel rested when you wake up ?

[Nyx]

Nyx,

I'm on Mirtazapine as well for the least 5 months at 15 MG. though initially the added sleep during my Lexapro WD was welcomed. But after 60 days on it my sleep became very non restorative. It's effected reading, vision, watching TV, speech, and maybe caused increased fatigue. In waiting on the results on a sleep study to confirm my theory that it took my slow wave sleep away. Do you feel your sleep is good? Do you feel rested when you wake up ?

 

 

I think I was pretty much born with a sleeping disorder so my sleep has never been normal in a societal sense. Which is one of the reasons that I went on mirtazapine. I was complaining to my doctor for years and she acted like it was no big deal (like I could fix it if I made 'lifestyle changes') until I was got so fed up that that she finally decided to prescribe something. It helped my sleep for about two weeks then gradually it went back to my 'normal'. But having to cope with society's schedule and expectations of when things should be done I have pretty much never felt well rested. Always fatigued. Story of my life.... 

[Nyx]

I decided to reinstate at 1ml last night because I was feeling worse. I'm going to try my best to remember (maybe add it into my phone). I'm just not sure about some things. I've read about 'reinstating' and stabilizing and all that but haven't found answers to my questions.

 

1. If 1 ml doesn't make me worse but doesn't really work do I increase? After how long? The next day? Or do I keep it for a few weeks then increase. Holding and increasing until I feel better? Then start tapering again once I do?

 

2. If 1 ml  (or a few ml) works for me how do I taper? Over how long? Obviously it's going to be different than tapering a larger dose. 

 

3. Taking the dose at the same time every single day isn't possible for me. Would a window of a few hours every now and then be fine or is there a way to store it while I'm out without it going bad? Sorry but my schedule just won't always allow it. Sometimes I work longer or I do things after work (which is the only way I have any social life because most of my friends work during the day. Some of them work until 10 pm. Then there's the ones who want to go out on the weekends. I'm really not interested in stopping my social life because I have to take meds at the same time every day) If I was just taking pills it would be one thing but liquid is different. I'm afraid leaving a bottle in my purse being exposed to heat (it gets really hot where I work) would damage it. Driving home to take it isn't always an option either because that requires driving back and forth and I live too far out of the way to do that. I don't have the money to spend that much extra on gas.

[mammaP]

It will take around 4 days to get a steady level in  your blood, and you will need to allow time to stabilise. Hopefully this will be enough, once the nervous system is destabilised it takes time to settle down again. Changing doses and experimenting can cause more problems unfortunately.   It is important that doses are consistent. Allow a month or so before attempting an increase.  I know how hard it is with liquid but it is possible. You could make your dose before leaving for work, and keep it in the syringe until you need it. It shouldn't be affected by the heat in a dark purse. It is easy to then just go to the bathroom and take the dose.  

 

I hope the reinstatement helps, give it time to work and keep it stable, I wouldn't try any more supplements however much people recommend them until you have given this dose time to level out.  

 

When you have stabilised you need to taper just like you would from 10mg, but with smaller doses that can be made by diluting the liquid. It will take time but you will get there in the end. Don't be tempted to rush because it is such a small dose, withdrawal is not dose related and can be just as bad from 1mg as from 100mg! 

[ChessieCat]

You could always use a small freezer block to keep your dose cooler.  Or freeze a small plastic bottle of water.

[Nyx]

One positive thing I will say that is after being off them for almost a week that little belly pooch went away. So mirtazapine definitely causes it but once you go off it will go away. I'm also guessing/ hoping at being on a much smaller dose won't cause it to come back. It seemed to be decreasing the more I tapered. Before tapering I looked a few months pregnant and now my belly is almost totally flat. 

[Nyx]

It will take around 4 days to get a steady level in  your blood, and you will need to allow time to stabilise. Hopefully this will be enough, once the nervous system is destabilised it takes time to settle down again. Changing doses and experimenting can cause more problems unfortunately.   It is important that doses are consistent. Allow a month or so before attempting an increase.  I know how hard it is with liquid but it is possible. You could make your dose before leaving for work, and keep it in the syringe until you need it. It shouldn't be affected by the heat in a dark purse. It is easy to then just go to the bathroom and take the dose.  

 

I hope the reinstatement helps, give it time to work and keep it stable, I wouldn't try any more supplements however much people recommend them until you have given this dose time to level out.  

 

When you have stabilised you need to taper just like you would from 10mg, but with smaller doses that can be made by diluting the liquid. It will take time but you will get there in the end. Don't be tempted to rush because it is such a small dose, withdrawal is not dose related and can be just as bad from 1mg as from 100mg! 

 

Thanks for the help.

[Nyx]

You could always use a small freezer block to keep your dose cooler.  Or freeze a small plastic bottle of water.

That's a good idea thanks. 

[JanCarol]

Hey Nyx, you wrote:

 

 

 I got side effects within 5 days of going from 30-15 mg so I think I react pretty fast. Thanks again.

 

When did you do this?  Could you please put that in your signature?

 

That could very easily change our original belief that you were having a toxic reaction - as you could have "just" been in withdrawal from this previous adjustment.

 

So have you reinstated?  How is that going for you?  I hope you can take it close to the same time every day.  

 

You ask about supplements as posted here: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/19/10-best-supplements-for-antidepressant-withdrawal/  and I can punch a bunch of holes in that article, if you like.  For example, glutathione is not digestable orally, so taking a supplement of it is - well, just expensive.  Activated charcoal is all about "detoxing," which can be dangerous in withdrawal.   Additionally, they recommend 5HtP or Tryptophan - which might be helpful to someone who has never been on a psych drug - but very bad for someone in withdrawal.  Like Alto said - neuro-active substances are a crap shoot.  You might win, you might lose.  Are you sure you are willing to risk the "lose" part?

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9933-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-l-tryptophan/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2836-supplements-what-helps-what-doesnt/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/606-important-topics-about-tests-supplements-treatments-diet

 

There is a lot of garbage on the internet.  Dr. Google can lead you down a lot of dead end streets.  People here at SA  have been through it, and I would trust the collective experience here before a random article from "Mental Health Daily" blog meant to get their click-count up.  The article looks helpful enough, but the information in it is contraindicated by my own experience, and the collective experience here on SA.

 

I would consider coming off the B-complex, too.  You might find you get immediate improvement off it, as B vitamins are very activating in withdrawal.  If you want to add them back, consider doing so - one B vitamin at a time, not in a complex.  

 

If I drop a pebble in the pond, I can clearly watch the patterns of the ripples, and determine that the ripples came from that pebble.  If I throw a handful of pebbles into the pond, I cannot tell what is causing the disruption - only that there is a lot of it.  3 KIS's Keep It Simple, Slow, Stable

 

I hope some of this helps - please let us know how the reinstatement is going.

[Nyx]

Hey Nyx, you wrote:

 

 

 I got side effects within 5 days of going from 30-15 mg so I think I react pretty fast. Thanks again.

 

When did you do this?  Could you please put that in your signature?

 

That could very easily change our original belief that you were having a toxic reaction - as you could have "just" been in withdrawal from this previous adjustment.

 

So have you reinstated?  How is that going for you?  I hope you can take it close to the same time every day.  

 

You ask about supplements as posted here: http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/03/19/10-best-supplements-for-antidepressant-withdrawal/  and I can punch a bunch of holes in that article, if you like.  For example, glutathione is not digestable orally, so taking a supplement of it is - well, just expensive.  Activated charcoal is all about "detoxing," which can be dangerous in withdrawal.   Additionally, they recommend 5HtP or Tryptophan - which might be helpful to someone who has never been on a psych drug - but very bad for someone in withdrawal.  Like Alto said - neuro-active substances are a crap shoot.  You might win, you might lose.  Are you sure you are willing to risk the "lose" part?

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/9933-5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-l-tryptophan/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2836-supplements-what-helps-what-doesnt/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/606-important-topics-about-tests-supplements-treatments-diet

 

There is a lot of garbage on the internet.  Dr. Google can lead you down a lot of dead end streets.  People here at SA  have been through it, and I would trust the collective experience here before a random article from "Mental Health Daily" blog meant to get their click-count up.  The article looks helpful enough, but the information in it is contraindicated by my own experience, and the collective experience here on SA.

 

I would consider coming off the B-complex, too.  You might find you get immediate improvement off it, as B vitamins are very activating in withdrawal.  If you want to add them back, consider doing so - one B vitamin at a time, not in a complex.  

 

If I drop a pebble in the pond, I can clearly watch the patterns of the ripples, and determine that the ripples came from that pebble.  If I throw a handful of pebbles into the pond, I cannot tell what is causing the disruption - only that there is a lot of it.  3 KIS's Keep It Simple, Slow, Stable

 

I hope some of this helps - please let us know how the reinstatement is going.

 

That was back in Feb. I was on 15mg for about two weeks before increasing because it stopped working. Then on 30mg for about a week then my doctor told me to go back down to 15. That's when I started having issues. But they went away after about a month of being back on 15mg. I've been trying to taper since April. 

 

 

I take vitamin b complex  because I'm on the bc pill and that depletes your vitamin b levels plus folate etc. Hopefully stopping it while on the pill will be ok.

[scallywag]

Nyx, thanks for clarifying what happened with the changes and when they occurred. It's important information and should be in your sig.