Lakelander82: Sertraline general query and tapering info

[Lakelander82]

You’ve came along way Chessiecat, don’t have your starting dose because I’m on a smartphone so can’t see signatures but I’m sure you must be down 90% now. I’ll soon be down 80% but I’m ambivalent about my progress. In some ways I think I have made tremendous strides in other ways I think I’ve a lot of things to overcome. It’s a confusing, ambiguous process. Yes Powerback, some people just grate on me, especially my mother. I have a love /hate relationship with her. She’s a pedantic, very fussy, kind of a person, whereas I am not. I dislike people who are very particular about every little detail as I’m a rough and ready kind of person. My father and brother are so laid back they are practically horizontal and thus I don’t have the same friction with them, or my girlfriend for that matter. When you’re on edge, you can just anticipate a battle commencing with a person who grates on you - it then becomes a battle of wills, who can argue their position better. Sometimes I can’t be arsed with the controversy and just walk off for peace and quiet. 

[powerback]

2 minutes ago, Lakelander82 said:

You’ve came along way Chessiecat, don’t have your starting dose because I’m on a smartphone so can’t see signatures but I’m sure you must be down 90% now. I’ll soon be down 80% but I’m ambivalent about my progress. In some ways I think I have made tremendous strides in other ways I think I’ve a lot of things to overcome. It’s a confusing, ambiguous process. Yes Powerback, some people just grate on me, especially my mother. I have a love /hate relationship with her. She’s a pedantic, very fussy, kind of a person, whereas I am not. I dislike people who are very particular about every little detail as I’m a rough and ready kind of person. My father and brother are so laid back they are practically horizontal and thus I don’t have the same friction with them, or my girlfriend for that matter. When you’re on edge, you can just anticipate a battle commencing with a person who grates on you - it then becomes a battle of wills, who can argue their position better. Sometimes I can’t be arsed with the controversy and just walk off for peace and quiet. 

That's exactly correct ,just walk off ,I promised myself to stay away from triggering people after Christmas and its great ,my father is a huge trigger ,a decent quiet man but he finds problems in situations that wouldn't even be there ,I'm in a funk of resentment  with being raised by someone like this after I did some introspection the last couple of years . when I'm on edge I will do anything but be around my big triggers .its all about control with fussy people ,I want that were it belongs ,it appeases there own inner torment .I understand my fathers issue so it helps not take hes crap personally but in a wave its impossible.when he is in a dark mood its visceral ,you can feel the anger raging out of him or as Eckhart tolle calls it "the pain body ".  

I know all your troubles all so well ,you can always vent to me on PM if you like .

Take care .

[AliG]

L.L.  You will get there in the end. It's an extremely long and frustrating process and I found the neuro - emotions to be one of the hardest things to deal with, as they sometimes just seem to come out of the blue, with no warning. They tend to recede over time though, thank goodness. Maybe, exercise could help to release some of that pent up anger. That often seemed to work for me. I think you are doing very well. Keep up the good work.

Edited March 24, 2018 by AliG
spelling

[Lakelander82]

Thanks AliG. When times are hard I often find myself doubting myself and the tapering process, whether it’s windows and waves or something different. The sporadic eye watering, even though I’m not sad about anything in particular, really gets to me and it always follows a period of inner tension building up. Mindfulness and Meditation etc do not make iota of difference to the peaks and troughs, they come and go regardless. I could sit and stare at the trees and listen to the birds (ie live mindfully) until the cows come home but the tension periods, plus eye watering, would still occur. Tension often manifests in other ways, for example climbing a flight of stairs, and finding myself slightly breathless, my heart thumping and feeling nervy at the top, something which is extremely weird seeing as I can run 10K no problem! I even get periods of hysterical laughter when watching funny programmes on youtube, to the point where it boils over into anxiety and profuse sweating. 

I’m still getting out and about, I exercise, go to the shops, walk my dog, stay at my girlfriends over the weekend, so at least I’m not house bound/bed bound or agoraphobic, which is one thing to be grateful for. I’ve a small circle of people I’m happy to be in the company of but I’m staying within my comfort zone and not really mixing with strangers or really getting to know other people, apart from greeting strangers on my daily nature walks (its a small town, everybody says hello to one another). I can’t get out of my comfort zone precisely because of my waves, in other words I’m hamstrung by them. The same goes for applying for jobs etc, even the thought of out working among people fills me with dread. It’s tough to take when you’re highly educated and sitting at home doing nothing. The question is do you push ahead out of your comfort zone and risk further destabilisation or continue to wrap yourself in cotton wool? 

[Lakelander82]

I’m getting absolutely poleaxed with withdrawal symptoms this last few weeks, mainly a low depressed mood together with intermittent anxiety. Didn’t help the fact that my brother, his wife and kids were back at the ranch (home house) for Easter and I had a insane dog running round after the kids and even more insane mother fussing and fretting over every little thing

 My mind is just down at the min, cognitively I’m very slow and sluggish. My eyes have no sparkle, they are dead in my head and for want of a better word I just feel like ****. 

[ChessieCat]

10 hours ago, Lakelander82 said:

I’m getting absolutely poleaxed with withdrawal symptoms this last few weeks, mainly a low depressed mood together with intermittent anxiety.

 

At the end of January when I returned to work I found out that my boss was leaving mid April.  I have since obtained and started a different volunteer role, just left the old role and I am working different days.  All of this has had an effect on me over the last few months similar to what you describe.  Doing anything takes all my effort.  At least I know what is causing it, so I am just accepting it and taking one day at a time.

 

Sounds like you have been way too stimulated!

[Lakelander82]

I think you hit the nail on the head with the overstimulation Chessiecat. If anything, under stimulation is better for us...but then we run the risk of boredom, so we’re between a rock and a hard place. I’m feeling better today though because I’ve been the swimming pool, done loads of laps and got rid of the tension out of my muscles. The tension in my muscles seems to have a strangle hold on my mood, and my mood doesn’t improve until the tension is dissipated. 

[powerback]

4 minutes ago, Lakelander82 said:

seems to have a strangle hold on my mood, and my mood doesn’t improve until the tension is dissipated. 

Hi L ,this very interesting ,its a great insight ,I must remember this .

[Lakelander82]

Thanks Powerback, I think a lot of us on here are exceptionally in tune with our body and the way our emotions/state of mind affect it and vice versa. We become very good at scanning ourselves, spotting what areas of our body hold the tension.  

I wish to Christ I would have a more positive update but I don’t...I have to tell it like it is. I’m finding it very hard to wake in the mornings, it’s like a trying to come out of a coma..I’ll wake briefly for less than 5 minutes then back to sleep for another hour, wake for 5 minutes then back to sleep etc. My brain just doesn’t want to fire up or get started in the early part of the day...it just feels like regular, run of the mill Depression to me.. either that or I’m hitting the wall big time wth this taper. My libido is returning to its ridiculously high levels as well, which is interesting because this is happening in conjunction with a major decrease in my mood. The whole thing gets you thinking about what the hells going on in your brain and whether you can really return to normal. 

[Lakelander82]

I looked up the ora plus on amazon in the UK and it is quite expensive but I may consider switching over to it from water because it may suspend the drug more uniformly than water (I’m guessing it’s more viscous than water). What are people’s thoughts on this? 

[ChessieCat]

If you are tapering Zoloft/sertraline, there is no need to use a suspension liquid because the tablet dissolves in water.  Other people have been successfully tapering by this method.

 

On 11/14/2011 at 11:18 AM, Altostrata said:

Make your own liquid
Many people make their own Zoloft liquid out of tablets and water.

 

[Lakelander82]

I need to rant a bit because this whole tapering process irks the **** out of me. Today I doubled the amount of water I disperse my Sertraline in (from 25ml to 50mls) because of concern about accuracy and also because of ease of use. I also inverted the process, in other words I took my dose via a syringe and not the usual “leftover” in the jar. Today I haven’t had a single wave, my mood has been good, my energy levels are good, my concentration is good, no tearfulness - which to me only points to one thing, I’ve taken more than my usual amount. This leaves me bewildered and to a certain extent downhearted about the whole thing...why would a simple change in technique, which in theory should give me the same amount of drug, cause such a change in mood? If these are withdrawal effects I’m feeling everyday, why would one accidental updose make me feel good again?  Tapering using your own DIY liquid is so temperamental and imprecise, you really can’t be sure what dose you’re getting, it could be way off each day. 

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Lakelander82 said:

I need to rant a bit because this whole tapering process irks the **** out of me. Today I doubled the amount of water I disperse my Sertraline in (from 25ml to 50mls) because of concern about accuracy and also because of ease of use. I also inverted the process, in other words I took my dose via a syringe and not the usual “leftover” in the jar. Today I haven’t had a single wave, my mood has been good, my energy levels are good, my concentration is good, no tearfulness - which to me only points to one thing, I’ve taken more than my usual amount. This leaves me bewildered and to a certain extent downhearted about the whole thing...why would a simple change in technique, which in theory should give me the same amount of drug, cause such a change in mood? If these are withdrawal effects I’m feeling everyday, why would one accidental updose make me feel good again?  Tapering using your own DIY liquid is so temperamental and imprecise, you really can’t be sure what dose you’re getting, it could be way off each day. 

This is definitely a mind f*ck alrite  LL .for such a quick change in mood is interesting ,ive no answers but you logging this will help to understand this whole disaster of meds and coming off them .

Take care .

[FarmGirlWorks]

Just piping in here that I think you're right about the water being helpful with WD. I went to the pool/whirlpool/sauna last night at the gym after probably a month off and it definitely eased the painful tension in my shoulders and back. Which at least made me sleepy after a Very Bad Bad Day.

[Kostas]

1 hour ago, Lakelander82 said:

I need to rant a bit because this whole tapering process irks the **** out of me. Today I doubled the amount of water I disperse my Sertraline in (from 25ml to 50mls) because of concern about accuracy and also because of ease of use. I also inverted the process, in other words I took my dose via a syringe and not the usual “leftover” in the jar. Today I haven’t had a single wave, my mood has been good, my energy levels are good, my concentration is good, no tearfulness - which to me only points to one thing, I’ve taken more than my usual amount. This leaves me bewildered and to a certain extent downhearted about the whole thing...why would a simple change in technique, which in theory should give me the same amount of drug, cause such a change in mood? If these are withdrawal effects I’m feeling everyday, why would one accidental updose make me feel good again?  Tapering using your own DIY liquid is so temperamental and imprecise, you really can’t be sure what dose you’re getting, it could be way off each day. 

Hi, 

You are possibly experiencing a window, very well documented during withdrawal, and has nothing to do with the change in your process! 

In any case enjoy it as much as you can, and let's hope for the best. 

[Lakelander82]

You’re right Powerback, it is a mind ***. I’m reverted back to my normal process of taking what’s leftover in the jar - and I’m back to feeling depressed, constantly tearful and having no energy and being fatigued.  I’ve been feeling like this for over a month and a half now with no let up. I really don’t know what to do, I’m fed up, literally fed up with this tapering. There is no sign that any sort of healing is going on at all in my brain and body, I’ve kept rigidly to the 10% rule or less a month and I still feel like ****. I don’t think it was a window Kostas, it’s too much a coincidence that it occurred the day I changed my technique...Like I said, I’ve been feeling bad for a month and a half now. I don’t know if I should switch to cutting tablets and weighing instead because there’s too many variables with making your own liquid. 

Yes Farmgirl, I have found the water can Be soothing either swimming in it or simple just floating and relaxing.

[Lakelander82]

Is there really no other piece of advice from the moderators other than to stick it out? I have no windows anymore I just feel horrendous, day in day out. 

[merry]

Tiny updose?  Since that seemed to make you feel better?

 

I'm in the midst of a multi-month wave; some of my symptoms have reduced with the help of supplements from a functional medicine doctor.  (And I'm actually not convinced the remainder of symptoms are entirely due to withdrawal, but that's another story).

 

One helpful thing someone told me was that sometimes waves are the result of not just the previous drop but the cummulative effect of all of the drops.  So you could just do a tiny updose, hold, hold, hold some more....and then make a decision on how and when to make your next decrease.  After feeling so terrible, sometimes being functional can override everything else, including getting off the drug in a reasonable amount of time.

 

I'm really sorry you're suffering.

[Lakelander82]

I would be grateful if Alto could advise me on this. I done the most stupid, stupid, ridiculous thing over these last few days, I skipped my doses on Friday and Saturday, the only explanation I can give for this is that I had the feeling that my body was rejecting the Sertraline and that’s why I was feeling so rubbish everyday and I basically wanted to see how my body would cope without it. I then reinstated it today (Sunday) but at a lower dose of 11mg(I was due to cut now anyway) and I had the most horrendous anxiety and panic while out for the day. I had to get up and leave a restaurant even though our food was ordered and basically couldn’t wait to get home. Is missing the two days too much for me to stabilise again? I don’t know whether it was the actual missing of the doses that made me really anxious or reinstating them on the third day? Or a combination of them both? 

Oh by the way merry, thanks for chipping in with the suggestion. 

[Lakelander82]

Am I so undeserving of a response from the moderators? I feel like im losing it big time. I havent had anxiety like this in two years or more. Its hell. 

[Tarheel109]

I’m sorry to hear that you’re feeling poorly, Lakelander. I know that it’s easy for me to say, but I don’t think that you should take the lack of a response personally. 

 

We’re all basically navigating uncharted territory it seems. Hopefully, at some point we’ll all collectively build up anecdotal evidence to support others who are considering discontinuation.

 

Although it sounds like torture, I’m hopeful that your current mindset will pass

[Lakelander82]

Thanks Tarheel, I’m feeling better now after a walk with the dog. Words to not do justice to how bad I felt yesterday in the restaurant and earlier today, I don’t exaggerate when I say I haven’t felt like that in over two years, possibly three. Sheer panic, a feeling of pure and utter doom, and a overwhelming need to return to the safety of home. Even the people in the restaurant seemed ever so strange and startling almost threatening. Since the beginning of my taper I haven’t  had those feelings in a public venue but yesterday they returned with vengeance.  This morning I may have been at home but I felt I was losing it big time as well, as if panic disorder was starting up again, nothing could settle me, it almost feels if there’s something wrong with my soul when I’m like that.  It’s pure stupidity on my own behalf for stopping cold turkey for a few days, lesson learned. 

 

[SquirrellyGirl]

My skins crawls at your description of your experience, Lakelander, because I have had that happen, too, most recently with trying CBD oil, and when you are in it it IS REAL and it feels like if it doesn't stop you won't survive, or at least that's how I felt.  Such a relief to have it pass.  These incidences make us tread more carefully going forward because we don't want that to happen EVER again!

 

SG

[Lakelander82]

Absolutely Squirrellygirl. I dont like to sensationalise things or create unnecessary fuss but the panic in those situations Is off the scales. I get to the point where I cant even engage in a conversation, in terms listening to whats being said by the other person or speaking myself...if i speak, it will be in a really weak, timid, voice and I’ll only be able to manage the most basic words like yes or no. I remember reading that in situations like that your confidence plummets to almost zero and that a 5 year old child could come and lead you by the hand to your car or where ever you want to go...this describes the experience precisely.  All this after missing two doses...ive a feeling i will have to taper down to miniscule amounts before i can finally jump off. 

[powerback]

Hi LL sorry to hear of this episode .pull on all your tools from previous experience .wishing you well .

About a year ago I had something similar on a job site and it was horrible ,I left  that morning and spent a few days in bed exhausted .

Take care and be extra kind to yourself .

[Lakelander82]

Is two days cold turkey completely enough to destabilise my system beyond redemption? I reinstated at 11mg( i was due a cut of 10% anyway from 12.15mg), please please somebody reply, im going through hell. I don’t want to develop panic disorder.

[wantrelief]

I am so sorry you are feeling so badly.  I am wondering if it makes sense to go back to the amount you were on (12.15 mg) prior to skipping the two days and stabilize there before making the cut to 11 mg.

[Lakelander82]

Thank you want relief for your reply. I might consider that , I really, really hope this doesn’t develop into panic disorder, I can feel what Claire weekes describes as personality disintegration already.

What would you recommend Alto? What’s you’re gut feeling in relation to the missing of two days, is it too long a time period to regain stability? I know Zoloft has a short half life but these effects are ridiculous. All I can think about is my stupid decision to stop for 2 days and how this has undone all my progress to date.

Thank you.

[Lakelander82]

What should I do? Is 11gs too high to reinstate after being off for two days? Pease please help, I’m going mad here, my legs are shaking like hell. 

[Lakelander82]

Please help me, please please help me moderators. I’m beyond desperate. 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Lakelander-- it's going to be okay, you've just given an overly sensitive system a big shock and it will need a while to calm down again. Reinstating to the slightly smaller dose shouldn't be a problem.  Reading through your signature it appears that you've been pushing the speed of your taper a bit fast.  The four weeks that we recommend is just that a recommendation.  Many people find that they have to go a bit slower.  It's going to take four to seven days for the drug to reach steady state in your blood, during that time your symptoms could be all over the place.  Once it reaches steady state then things can start to stabilize and that could take several week to several months, but it will happen. Once you've been sable for a month or so then you can reevaluate stating a new taper.

 

For right now try not to panic, keep things as they are and work on riding it out.

 

Brassmonkey

[Lakelander82]

Thank you Brassmonkey for replying, I’m beyond grateful to you- I needed some reassurance that what I was doing was ok. I have been tapering at 10 percent or less though every month, bar one, it hasn’t been a bed of roses my taper but it’s a damn sight better than how I currently am.  I’m really, really shocked that missing two days has done this to me, I never envisaged it at all. Some people skip a day or two without a problem and yet for me it sends me into an abyss.  My main symptoms now are jerky limbs, profuse sweating, a heaviness in my chest and palpitations as well as severe mental anguish. 

[Altostrata]

How long have you been taking 11mg, and how are you feeling now?

 

I'm not sure we told you this specifically, but we have repeated over and over never to skip a dose. Now you know why.

 

Please look into your impulse to cold turkey even though you knew it could be harmful. Please learn from this and forgive yourself.

[Lakelander82]

Been taking 11 since Sunday, is this ok?

[Lakelander82]

Feel my very nervy and panicky. Should I just persist with this seeing as I’ve taken it for three days now?

[Lakelander82]

I will curb my impulses from now on alto, can I recover from this though?