Lakelander82: Sertraline general query and tapering info

[Lakelander82]

Alto would you have went with 11 mg also or was it too high? Im trembling with fear here. 

[Altostrata]

If you went off 12.15mg, if I were you, I'd go back to 12.15mg. You've destabilized, you can't keep tapering as though nothing happened.

 

It will take some time for your nervous system to settle down, with waves and windows. It could take a week, it could take months. Please let us know how you're doing.

[Lakelander82]

Thank you Alto, you are one in a million and should be knighted for your service to others. And i mean that in the most sincere way. 

[Altostrata]

You're welcome. 😊

[Lakelander82]

Alto i keep obsessing about everything and my panic levels are through thr roof. What can i do only wait? I never thought missing two days woukd do tgis to me. This is unreal. 

[Lakelander82]

Is sleep and rest better for this level of panic or up and at things , I don’t know.?  I find if i rest my head on the pillow i get racing and obsesseive thoughts. 

[Lakelander82]

I think im going to die with this panic, what if my heart gives up? Ive a massive knot in my chest, I’m sweating like hell and trembling,  the panic is the worst ive had ever had, all for  the stupid decision to give up for two days.my taper hasn’t been a bed off roses till date but it was bearable compared to this. Il take a low grade depression everyday compared to this panic which is off the scales panic. I keep on ruminating about which dose is the correct dose to reinstate at, if 12.15 is too much for my system or indeed too little. It’s  the last dose I was on before I gave up for two days. The doctor recommended 25mg, would that send me into complete oblivion? 

[Lakelander82]

Help someone, what happens if I took a higher dose. Would.i react badly? 

[Altostrata]

Did you take 12.15mg? If so, what happened?

[Lakelander82]

I don’t feel any better alto. I’m having panic attacks. This is hell. 

[Altostrata]

Did you take 12.15mg?

[Lakelander82]

Yes. This last few nights I’ve not sleep three hours, and I could usually sleep the clock round. What’s wrong with me Alto? I know Sertraline has a fairly short half life but some people can reinstate months after stopping and not half any problems- I only stopped for two days. I feel awful that I’ve ruined the whole taper with my stupidity and impulsiveness. 

[Altostrata]

Please stop asking what's wrong with you, as though you've never heard of the dangers of cold turkey.

 

When did you take 12.15mg? Try to be more forthcoming with essential information.

[Lakelander82]

I took 11mg for three nights then 12.15mg for a few nights but wasn’t settling down then  I stupidly took 25 mg on top of that for two nights because the doctor recommended it and I  went absolutely Beserk, I couldnt settle at all or get one wink of sleep, the racing thoughts were out of this world. I’m back down to 12.15mg now and definitely going to stay on it. If I missed three or four days of 12.15 is my body still expecting this dose even though Zoloft has a half life of only 24 hours or is it too much? Is there a chance 12.15 is too much for me, Alto answer me on this, would 12.15 be too much for me? Or do I need to stay on this dose because it’s the last dose I was stable on? 

[Lakelander82]

Please someone, i need reassurance that 12.15 mg is ok a dose to reinstate at? Is it what my brain is now expecting or does the half life of Sertraline mean you should start much much lower, like half your original dose. Its these paragraphs here thats confusing the hell out of me and making me panic further on reinstatement 

• Often a partial dose will relieve withdrawal symptoms. If, for example, you were taking 20mg Paxil and quit rapidly only a few days ago, 5mg or 10mg may be enough. Others find they need a higher dose.

 

How the person quit the drug and how long he or she's been off it. If you've just cold-turkeyed 20mg Celexa a few days ago, you might reinstate at closer to your original dosage, such as 10mg. (It may not be necessary to go back to 20mg,standard dosages tend to be overly powerful.)

 

 

Please someone help me moderators, I’m beyond desperate. The panic is unreal here.,

[Lakelander82]

This 12.5mg dose has Not worked at all, it has turned me into a gibbering wreck, my limbs are trembling all over with fear. I would have thought I would have got some relief but no, its making me worse. 

 

 

 

[Lakelander82]

Can a moderator please please put my mind at ease with answering this question, when reinstating an antidepressant is the reinstatement dosage based on what the last dosage was and what the brain can cope with in terms of a 10 percent taper or is it governed by the half life of the drug? Why would you for example start paxil at 5mg or 10 mg after only being off  20mg for a few days? Surely the person s brain would still be expecting 20mg?im debating whether my 12.15mg reinstatement dose is too much? 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Lakelander82

[Lakelander82]

Should I persist with this 12.15 dose and wait to i stabilise or cold turkey the rest? I don’t know if my brain and body is rejecting it but my whole body shakes at  night and I can’t get a wink of sleep. I took two nights of 11mg then a 12.15 mg dose then I stupidly added in 25mgfor another two nights based on the advice of a doctor  and now I’m back to 12.15mg? Should I stick it out and see if I can stabilise or cold turkey the rest? Would my body be rejecting it? 

[Songbird]

Hi Lakelander, I have not had time to read your whole topic, but from the most recent two pages, I would suggest sticking with your current dose for a while longer.  Your system needs some stability after all the changes.  I would not recommend cold turkey, especially as you've been successfully slow tapering up until now.  I think what you're experiencing is instability from the big changes recently, and you need to work towards stabilisation. 

 

Here is some more info: the rule of 3kis keep it simple keep it slow keep it stable

 

You don't need to do nothing and just wait for recovery, there are things you can do to help yourself to calm your system down.

 

Read or listen to Claire Weeks: The Dr Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system 

 

Also you could try some relaxation techniques such as progressive muscle relaxation, guided meditation, gentle yoga, etc.  You want to calm the sympathetic nervous system  (fight-or-flight response) and encourage the parasympathetic nervous system (relaxation response).  I think sometimes people think relaxation techniques won't do much, but they can be very effective, especially if you keep on doing them consistently over time.  If your system is in panic mode, I would do them several times a day.

 

Here is a topic with some more info:  guided meditations calming videos sleep hypnosis

[brassmonkey]

All the recent changes have thrown you into a bad wave, which is going to need a lot of time to run it's course.  Stick on this dose and don't change anything else until things stabilize, which could take several months.  In the mean time, as Songbird pointed out, there are several things that can be done to help make things a bit more tolerable. Please look through the forum for "self soothing techniques" there is a lot of information.

[Rabe]

Hi Lakelander...

I just wanted to say that it has taken 8 months for me to feel well enough to do a very small taper after the very rapid taper I had in September.  Brassmonkey, Altostrata, Shep and others told me to not make any other changes, I did that, and indeed things have stabilized 

which I could never have believed back then!  You will feel better!!!  Have also gotten help with other meds, interactions, how to adjust my doses, and much more... SO grateful! Hold tight and things will slowly settle!  Thinking about you!!!

[Altostrata]

Stop jumping around in dosage, that's what's causing your symptoms. Stay calm, you're agitating yourself and making bad decisions.

 

As we've said before, you're going to have waves and windows. The reason we go to so much effort to get people to taper gradually is to avoid really terrible symptoms. We are well aware they are frightening and can be be overwhelming, which is why we spent dozens of hours over 2 years coaching you on tapering.

 

Reading through this topic, it seems you have made jumps up and down in dosage several times. For us to be able to continue to coach you, you need to stop making ad hoc jumps in dosage. We simply cannot fix your mistakes for you. You have to stop making them.

[Lakelander82]

Hi all, im definitely staying on the 12.5mg now, no matter what. Those two 25mg tablets(which incidentally is the dosage three NHS GPS recommended, sent me completely off the scales, the worst OCD and panic ever. I then had a telephone conversation with a private GP on my dads private healthcare vitality scheme and he seemed more knowledgable and said to remain on the 12.15 mg like you all said. On the two days i took 25 mg i couldnt cry or anything to let it all out, all i could do was have heart palpitations sweat profusely and tremble like mad. I never got a winks sleep for two nights which is so unlike me. The best of it all was i wasnt remotely depressed during this period, just rudiculously agitated. Now im back on 12.15 mg i can cry it out and let the tension go and the panic isnt anywhere near as bad. I feel embarrassed now I created such a hoo-haa on here all because of my own stupid mistake.  I may have a degree in Pharmacy but none of the knowledge gained in that degree doesnt prepare you for panic that extreme - instead of concentrating so much on stupid pharmaceutical analytical techniques like HPLC or Raman spectroscopy, we should have been taught wbout these real life situations regarding the proper tapering of antidepressants and the consequences of going back up in dose. Sorry for any typos or spelling mistakes but my concentration is shot. Once again thank you all. 

 

Ps one more thing, is resting and sleep better for me in this condition or on my feet furiously looking for occupation to occupy my mind? 

 

Thank you 

 

 

 

 

[Lakelander82]

Its been a long while since i studied organic chemistry but the absurdity of the whole antidepressant thing is only really dawning on me now. Sertraline the drug I am on for example is a naphthalene derived drug. The Naphthalene molecule  is composed of two fused Benzene rings. Benzene itself is toxic to the human body and so is Naphthalene, with a whole host of adverse health effects attached to the use of it. Therefore why would Naphthalenes toxic effects to the human body be any less because you stick a few more functional groups on the molecule to make Sertraline???? 

 

The term I will use to describe the whole conspiracy is skullDRUGgery, and I will give anybody permission to use the term because I haven’t patented it....not yet anyway. 😆😆

[Rabe]

I don't even want to know more..already know the drugs have done some bad things to my body...icky stuff!

I find not over doing is best cause even though I may y feel like I can do LOT in the

moment, over taxing my already upended nervous system simply upends it more and leads to more symptoms.

Check out some of the self care reads...they would be helpful! Take care.

[Lakelander82]

Is sleep better for me in this state or up doing things? If I rest my head on the pillow I tend to ruminate over everything, what I done wrong in missing the two tablets,  how I’m never going to get better now etc. I don’t really know tbh. 

[powerback]

HI LL when your bad ide imagine distraction would be a good thing ,I get you about the rumination ,I'm a long-time listening to documentary's or podcasts but its getting very hard these days to get any that aren't aggravating or stimulating  ,others would disagree and say this is a sleep aid but it works for me ,maybe it is a source of my dreams or nightmares but lying there ruminating isn't pretty either  .

Take care and keep at it ,this wave will pass and forgive your mistake . 

[Lakelander82]

Moderators I keep obsessing that I done the wrong thing reinstating, that the reinstating is causing me panic attacks and that my brain is rejecting it the sertraline. I keep obsessing about everything, did i absolutely do the right thing? I’m getting very little sleep now as well. 

[brassmonkey]

According to medicines.org.uk it will take the drug seven days to be become steady state in your blood.  So your blood plasma concentration will be fluctuating for several more days and that means that your symptoms will be unpredictable.  You have to allow enough time for this to happen and then allow more time to see how your body is reacting. As Alto, Songbird and myself said above, don't change doses for a long time and let your body do it's job in sorting everything out.  There are no quick fixes, you have to wait it out.

[Lakelander82]

Brass is it normal to have very cold limbs because of withdrawal? I’m very succeptibile to the cold which I never was before, it’s going right through to my bones. 

Also is crying a form of my body healing? 

[Lakelander82]

Please everyone, if I’m not sleeping, I’m very panicky, agitated, have I reacted badly to the reinstatement? I’m not sleeping now at all 

[Altostrata]

Are you taking 12.15mg or 12.5mg citalopram?

 

On 5/16/2018 at 11:44 AM, Lakelander82 said:

Is sleep better for me in this state or up doing things? If I rest my head on the pillow I tend to ruminate over everything, what I done wrong in missing the two tablets,  how I’m never going to get better now etc. I don’t really know tbh. 

 

If you can sleep, sleep is better. Go to bed and get up at regular hours.

 

11 hours ago, Lakelander82 said:

Moderators I keep obsessing that I done the wrong thing reinstating, that the reinstating is causing me panic attacks and that my brain is rejecting it the sertraline. I keep obsessing about everything, did i absolutely do the right thing? I’m getting very little sleep now as well. 

 

You sound like you have pre-existing health anxiety and you're making your withdrawal symptoms worse. You must get this in hand. I strongly recommend finding a cognitive behavior therapist (CBT) or learn meditation to turn your thoughts away from those that make you anxious.

 

I also strongly recommend you stop panicking. It's quite trying for the staff to keep reassuring you. We tell you there will be bumps but you're not taking them very well.

 

You need to learn how to reassure yourself. See

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

May I ask, was it something you read on this site that suggested you might quit citalopram at 12.15mg?

[Lakelander82]

I feel absolultely brain damaged at this stage, my mind is all over the place , i cant remember where i put stuff and get in a panic over the least wee thing. I keep on obssessing over and over and over again if a) i done the right thing reinstating after two days  and b) whether I reinstated at the right dose of 12.15mg or whether it was too much. I’m trying to occupy my mind by mowing the lawn, doing chores but my mind is still obsessing on the meds each time.  My parents think it’s all down to my persistent negative, obsessive thinking, I just think it’s the meds. I have them round the bend at this stage. I can cry multiple times every day and feel better after it so I don’t know whether this is beneficial or not. 

[Lakelander82]

On 5/18/2018 at 11:52 PM, Altostrata said:

Are you taking 12.15mg or 12.5mg citalopram?

 

 

If you can sleep, sleep is better. Go to bed and get up at regular hours.

 

 

You sound like you have pre-existing health anxiety and you're making your withdrawal symptoms worse. You must get this in hand. I strongly recommend finding a cognitive behavior therapist (CBT) or learn meditation to turn your thoughts away from those that make you anxious.

 

I also strongly recommend you stop panicking. It's quite trying for the staff to keep reassuring you. We tell you there will be bumps but you're not taking them very well.

 

You need to learn how to reassure yourself. See

 

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

May I ask, was it something you read on this site that suggested you might quit citalopram at 12.15mg?

Alto just to reiterate, its 12.15mg of sertraline im taking not Citalopram. Ive been on it now a week and 2 days, i really dont know what to think, whether its doing me any good or not. The panic is not as bad as it was but the rumination and obsessing about whether its right for me is driving me round the bend. Just for clarity, i had slowly tapered to 12.15mg, then i missed two days cold turkey and reinstated 11mg on the third day and took this for two/three days. As the anxiety wasnt getting better in upped the dose to my original dose of 12.15mg over two days and as it still wasnt getting any better i added in 25mg over two consecutive days.  Ever since,  a (week and two days) ive been back on 12.15mg. My only worry is that this is too strong for me, although the panic has subsided a bit. 

[Altostrata]

Were ruminating and obsessing problems for you before you started psychiatric drugs?

 

If so, you need to get this in hand via non-drug methods, or you won't be able to go off drugs. See Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

What makes you think that 12.15mg Zoloft is too strong for you?

[Lakelander82]

Because I read a few articles on this website saying if you stopped Paxil 20mg for a day or two, you should only resume at 5mg or 10mg? Is the same logic not applicable to stopping Sertraline 12.5mg for a few days, and then resumed? 

Yes Alto rumination would have been part of my makeup but never this level of OCD and anxiety over the dosage.