zeromg: Effexor / venlafaxine withdrawal - panic

[zeromg]

18 hours ago, Altostrata said:

What we're going to ask you to do is to take your psychiatric drugs on a consistent schedule every day, and to stop the random experiments with other substances such as St. John's wort, energy shots, etc. and even overuse of caffeine.

 

As @Shep said, you may be making your own problems by ad hoc drug ingestion. We can't work with drug randomness.

 

Please continue to post your daily notes.

Okay I will do that. Do you know how long this depression is going to last? It's not going to be forever, is it?

[Shep]

5 hours ago, zeromg said:

Okay I will do that. Do you know how long this depression is going to last? It's not going to be forever, is it?

 

No, not forever. Benzos are depressing drugs for many people (they're central nervous system depressants). And withdrawal from benzos (and other psych drugs) can also cause a lot of fatigue and low mood.

 

But it fades out over time as you come off these drugs and go into the healing phase of recovery. 

[zeromg]

10 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

No, not forever. Benzos are depressing drugs for many people (they're central nervous system depressants). And withdrawal from benzos (and other psych drugs) can also cause a lot of fatigue and low mood.

 

But it fades out over time as you come off these drugs and go into the healing phase of recovery. 

I cant even think about tapering the benzos at this point. I am suffering badly from being off the ADs.

[zeromg]

The past 24+ hours:

 

Nov 12/2022 
5:30PM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 5, depression 7)
7:30PM (anxiety 3, depression 3) after doing relaxation exercises
9:10PM 0.75 mg risperidone, fish oil supplement, go to bed

Nov 13, 2022
3:00AM 50 mg diphenhydramine (anxiety 7, depression 3)
7:10AM 50 mg diphenhydramine (anxiety 8, depression 3)
7:40AM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 8, depression 3)
9:30AM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 7, depression 3)
9:45AM wake up completely, take supplements (anxiety 6, depression 3)
2:25PM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 7. depression 4)
3:45PM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 7, depression 4) 
6:05PM anxiety 4, depression 2 ( I attribute this to reading through the SA forum and not the lorazepam, which wasnt seeming to help at all. Reading the information just seemed to give me some calmness that I was really struggling to achieve today)

I have to admit that I did something stupid this past Wednesday night. I took a portion of an effexor capsule (12 beads out of the 33 in the capsule). This was before I had gotten an answer about whether I should reinstate and taper. I was feeling desperate. I had stopped taking the SJW that morning because of the anxiety and the suggestion to stop. Since I took the effexor, I've been suffering tremendously with rapid heartbeat and anxiety. The rapid heart beat seems to be subsiding as the days pass and i feel hopeful that it will pass completely with some more time. Please don't scold me for this stupid experiment. I know it was dumb and what I've been through is punishment enough. I think I have decided that I am done with antidepressants, that I won't reinstate and taper. Does this seem like the right decision? This experience scared the hell out of me. I know it could have been an interaction with the SJW too since I wasn't off of it for even 24 hours before taking the effexor. 

 

The good news is I haven't had any SJW, coffee, or energy shots since Wednesday. I intend to stay away from all three for good.

 

I need to stabilize a little then I'm going to try to stop the diphenhydramine and be more consistent with the lorazepam.  I am seeing a hypnotherapist on Wednesday. Does this seem like a good idea to you?

[zeromg]

Also, I want to thank you very much for the time and energy you've spent trying to help me. I know you are volunteers and I find it to be very generous of you to offer your support to people. It's wonderful to have someone to turn to other than medical doctors.

[FindRest]

9 hours ago, zeromg said:

I have to admit that I did something stupid this past Wednesday night. I took a portion of an effexor capsule (12 beads out of the 33 in the capsule). This was before I had gotten an answer about whether I should reinstate and taper. I was feeling desperate. I had stopped taking the SJW that morning because of the anxiety and the suggestion to stop. Since I took the effexor, I've been suffering tremendously with rapid heartbeat and anxiety.

 

Quote

 

The good news is I haven't had any SJW, coffee, or energy shots since Wednesday. I intend to stay away from all three for good.

It’s understandable why you are feeling anxiety and having a rapid heartbeat among other things. You made several big changes all on the same day (reinstated a relatively large dose of Effexor then stopped the next day, stopped SJW, stopped coffee and energy shots). It’s  much safer to change only one thing at a time. Your body has to be confused. 
 

Stabilizing for a very long time sounds like a good idea. I’d wait for a moderator to come along before changing anything else.

In the meantime, you may want to re-read your thread to see if there are any bits of wisdom in there that may help you now. I know this is a very scary time for you. Hugs.

 

[zeromg]

8 hours ago, FindRest said:

 

It’s understandable why you are feeling anxiety and having a rapid heartbeat among other things. You made several big changes all on the same day (reinstated a relatively large dose of Effexor then stopped the next day, stopped SJW, stopped coffee and energy shots). It’s  much safer to change only one thing at a time. Your body has to be confused. 
 

Stabilizing for a very long time sounds like a good idea. I’d wait for a moderator to come along before changing anything else.

In the meantime, you may want to re-read your thread to see if there are any bits of wisdom in there that may help you now. I know this is a very scary time for you. Hugs.

 

Thank you for your support. It is much appreciated.

[zeromg]

Nov 13, 2022

8:40PM 0.75 mg risperidone, fish oil supplement

 

Nov 14, 2022

4:50AM 0.25 mg lorazepam 

7:00AM 50 mg diphenhydramine 

8:00AM 0.25 mg lorazepam 

10:00AM morning supplements 

4:08PM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 6, depression 5)

7:05PM (anxiety 4, depression 3)

9:18PM (anxiety 2, depression 1)

11:20PM 0.75 mg risperidone, fish oil supplement (anxiety 1, depression 1)

 

[Altostrata]

Thanks for the notes, @zeromg It appears you are taking lorazepam frequently all day long, but not on a regular schedule? Att: @Shep

[Shep]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:17 PM, zeromg said:

I need to stabilize a little then I'm going to try to stop the diphenhydramine and be more consistent with the lorazepam. 

 

You've only been on diphenhydramine for 10 days, so this sounds like a good idea. Right now you're taking 50 - 100 mg a day (per your signature), so I would reduce to just 50 mg per day and see how you do. 

 

Set up a drug schedule and then stick to it. Otherwise, you may never stabilize enough in order to taper off and will likely end up increasing the sedating drugs, creating paradoxical alerting reactions. 

 

Write down the times of day, the drug name, and the dose. That will be your schedule, regardless of your symptoms. 

 

In a few weeks with a set schedule, you may be surprised how much easier this is. Chasing after your symptoms with drugs is an exhausting way to get through this. 

[zeromg]

Nov 15, 2022

4:15AM 0.25 mg lorazepam 

6:15AM 0.25 mg lorazepam 

9:05AM morning supplements (anxiety 8, depression 4) anxiety is high because I have an appointment at 10am. I barely slept last night 

9:18AM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 9, depression 5)

10:16AM 50 mg diphenhydramine. going to try to take a nap (anxiety 5, depression 4)

3:00PM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 6, depression 2)

9:30PM (anxiety 1, depression 1)

10:40PM 0.75 mg risperidone, fish oil supplement 

 

[zeromg]

8 hours ago, Shep said:

 

You've only been on diphenhydramine for 10 days, so this sounds like a good idea. Right now you're taking 50 - 100 mg a day (per your signature), so I would reduce to just 50 mg per day and see how you do. 

 

Set up a drug schedule and then stick to it. Otherwise, you may never stabilize enough in order to taper off and will likely end up increasing the sedating drugs, creating paradoxical alerting reactions. 

 

Write down the times of day, the drug name, and the dose. That will be your schedule, regardless of your symptoms. 

 

In a few weeks with a set schedule, you may be surprised how much easier this is. Chasing after your symptoms with drugs is an exhausting way to get through this. 

Ok I'll do that. I didnt know I was supposed to do it that way.  Was instructed to take it as needed (doctors, right?). 

[zeromg]

Nov 16, 2022 (morning times are approximate)
4:14AM 50 mg diphenhydramine
7:00AM 0.25 mg lorazepam 
8:30AM 0.25 mg lorazepam 
10:00 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety high because of appointment at 11am), morning supplements
3:15PM (anxiety 2, depression 2) had hypnosis appointment today, feeling better than usual
4:35PM 0.25 mg lorazepam (anxiety 4, depression 3)
11:20PM 0.75 mg risperidone, fish oil supplement 

[Altostrata]

So, you're taking lorazepam all day long until at night, when you take risperidone. You do realize that you are taking CNS depressants 24 hours a day?

 

What is it you want to do here? Our recommendations would be to reduce your drugs.

[zeromg]

I should start reducing now while I'm still in antidepressant withdrawal? The risperidone has always seemed to actually help the depression. 

[zeromg]

How do I taper risperidone? How do I taper lorazepam? Do I do them at the same time? 

[ChessieCat]

Tips for tapering off risperidone (Risperdal)

 

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first? - this is a link to a topic

Summary:  If you're not having an adverse reaction from the other medications, taper the most activating drug first. This is usually an antidepressant or stimulant (ADHD drug).

[Altostrata]

After a 4-year absence, you posted this:

 

On 11/5/2022 at 7:57 AM, zeromg said:

Depression has returned after discontinuing effexor and prozac

....

Over the past several years, I was able to taper off the lamictal with no problems. My anxiety improved significantly but it was still a major problem. I then I decreased the risperidone from 2 mg to .25 mg with almost no problems.  Last year, or maybe the year before, I started taking lorazepam. 

 

I used a natural medicine called kambo, and was able to stop the 37.5 mg effexor and 20 mg prozac with only very minor withdrawal symptoms. But after about 4 weeks off the drugs, I started having depression (which is strange because the pills never actually helped my depression. I learned to manage it in other ways). I am almost 12 weeks off the antidepressants which I am very happy about but I don't know what to do about this depression. Is this a withdrawal symptom?

....

 

 

At this point, your overuse of "brakes" such as lorazepam and risperidone and drug experiments is probably the most significant factor in your "depression" -- not withdrawal syndrome.

[zeromg]

On 11/19/2022 at 7:12 PM, Altostrata said:

After a 4-year absence, you posted this:

 

 

At this point, your overuse of "brakes" such as lorazepam and risperidone and drug experiments is probably the most significant factor in your "depression" -- not withdrawal syndrome.

So the risperidone and lorazepam are causing this depression but it's going to take years to get off of them? So I'll be depressed like this for years? I can't do that. It's really bad. I'm barely making it through each day. Do I have any alternatives?

[Altostrata]

I don't know if the risperidone and lorazepam are causing your "depression" but lethargy and depression are common adverse effects of those drugs, especially in combination. 

 

If your symptoms are adverse effects of the drugs, reducing the dosage will reduce the adverse effects.

 

There is no magic way to reduce the dosage other than reducing the dosage. Tapering reduces potential harm from withdrawal effects. Up to you if you want to do this.

[zeromg]

On 11/22/2022 at 3:08 PM, Altostrata said:

I don't know if the risperidone and lorazepam are causing your "depression" but lethargy and depression are common adverse effects of those drugs, especially in combination. 

 

If your symptoms are adverse effects of the drugs, reducing the dosage will reduce the adverse effects.

 

There is no magic way to reduce the dosage other than reducing the dosage. Tapering reduces potential harm from withdrawal effects. Up to you if you want to do this.

Why are you putting the word depression in quotation marks? Just wondering if im missing something.

[Altostrata]

Because what you call "depression" may be an adverse effect of your drugs. Has that not been clear?

[zeromg]

On 11/19/2022 at 7:12 PM, Altostrata said:

After a 4-year absence, you posted this:

 

 

At this point, your overuse of "brakes" such as lorazepam and risperidone and drug experiments is probably the most significant factor in your "depression" -- not withdrawal syndrome.

I've been taking the risperidone for over ten years and the lorazepam for one or two years. The depression I'm experiencing didn't start until September of last year when I stopped taking the antidepressants so I don't understand how the lorazepam and risperidone could be the cause of the depression I'm experiencing now. 

[zeromg]

On 11/18/2022 at 5:30 PM, ChessieCat said:

Tips for tapering off risperidone (Risperdal)

 

Tips for tapering off trazodone (Desyrel)

 

 

Taking multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first? - this is a link to a topic

Summary:  If you're not having an adverse reaction from the other medications, taper the most activating drug first. This is usually an antidepressant or stimulant (ADHD drug).

Where can I find tips for tapering off of lorazepam? I don't take trazadone. Is it recommended to start tapering another drug while I am still in antidepressant withdrawal? Also, the thread you posted about what to taper first doesn't cover benzos vs. antipsychotics. Which one should be tapered first?

 

[Shep]

16 hours ago, zeromg said:

Where can I find tips for tapering off of lorazepam?

 

We don't have a thread for tapering lorazepam, but we still advocate the 10% or less reduction rule. Please see:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Are you able to get a prescription for liquid lorazepam? Prescription liquid is the easiest way to taper this drug. 

 

16 hours ago, zeromg said:

Is it recommended to start tapering another drug while I am still in antidepressant withdrawal?

 

We recommend waiting until you're at a point sometimes called "withdrawal normal." This post explains:

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

16 hours ago, zeromg said:

Also, the thread you posted about what to taper first doesn't cover benzos vs. antipsychotics. Which one should be tapered first?

 

The drug that helps the most with sleep should be tapered last. 

 

 

[zeromg]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:39 AM, Shep said:

 

We don't have a thread for tapering lorazepam, but we still advocate the 10% or less reduction rule. Please see:

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Are you able to get a prescription for liquid lorazepam? Prescription liquid is the easiest way to taper this drug. 

 

 

We recommend waiting until you're at a point sometimes called "withdrawal normal." This post explains:

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

 

The drug that helps the most with sleep should be tapered last. 

 

 

So you're saying that I will get to a point of "withdrawal normal" without having to stop the risperidone and lorazepam? This is contrary to what Altostrata said which is that I won't improve until I get off the risperidone and lorazepam. 

[Shep]

I don't know, zeromg. If you're having a lot of side effects from your current drugs, that will only improve by tapering. However, if you taper too quickly for your nervous system to adjust, than your withdrawal symptoms may be worse than the side effects. 

 

Please update your signature to include your entire history, not just the past few months. This is what we need:

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

[Altostrata]

19 hours ago, zeromg said:

This is contrary to what Altostrata said which is that I won't improve until I get off the risperidone and lorazepam. 

 

Depends on what you mean by "improve". You are likely to continue to experience what you call "depression" as long as you are taking these two drugs.

 

Note you started lorazepam when you went off venlafaxine and fluoxetine, you date the start of your "depression" from then.

 

Which of your current symptoms do you associate with antidepressant withdrawal?

[zeromg]

On 4/24/2023 at 6:33 AM, Altostrata said:

 

Depends on what you mean by "improve". You are likely to continue to experience what you call "depression" as long as you are taking these two drugs.

 

Note you started lorazepam when you went off venlafaxine and fluoxetine, you date the start of your "depression" from then.

 

Which of your current symptoms do you associate with antidepressant withdrawal?

I've been on the lorazepam almost two years and the risperidone over ten years. I'm experiencing  a lot of symptoms but the worst ones are depression, anxiety, fatigue, and sleep problems. The depression has decreased a lot the past two weeks. 

[zeromg]

On 4/24/2023 at 5:02 AM, Shep said:

I don't know, zeromg. If you're having a lot of side effects from your current drugs, that will only improve by tapering. However, if you taper too quickly for your nervous system to adjust, than your withdrawal symptoms may be worse than the side effects. 

 

Please update your signature to include your entire history, not just the past few months. This is what we need:

 

How to Summarize Your Drug History in Your Signature

I wasn't experiencing severe anxiety, depression, fatigue, or sleep problems as side effects from the risperidone or lorazepam. These are the symptoms I'm suffering from now and they started when I discontinued the fluoxetine and venlafaxine in August 2022.

[Shep]

7 hours ago, zeromg said:

I've been on the lorazepam almost two years and the risperidone over ten years. I'm experiencing  a lot of symptoms but the worst ones are depression, anxiety, fatigue, and sleep problems. The depression has decreased a lot the past two weeks. 

 

Looks like the depression decreased after you stopped the hydroxyzine (your signature states - hydroxyzine Dec 2022 to mid-Apr 2023 50 mg). 

[Altostrata]

You've been taking risperidone for 12 years and lorazepam for a year. Over time, these drugs can behave differently. Your body ages and processes them differently. They can cause progressive small changes.

 

Long-term benzo use alone can cause "depression" as an adverse effect. This can creep up on you. For a time, you were taking a benzo all day long.

 

What times o'clock do you currently take your drugs, with their dosages? How long have you been keeping to this schedule?

 

Please describe your current sleep pattern. How has it changed in the last 3 months?

[zeromg]

7 hours ago, Shep said:

 

Looks like the depression decreased after you stopped the hydroxyzine (your signature states - hydroxyzine Dec 2022 to mid-Apr 2023 50 mg). 

Possibly but I think the depression stopped before I stopped the hydroxyzine. And it doesn't explain the depression in September, October, and November. So you guys don't think that depression can be a withdrawal symptom?

[Shep]

18 hours ago, zeromg said:

So you guys don't think that depression can be a withdrawal symptom?

 

What symptoms should I expect while tapering?

[Altostrata]

You're taking a boatload of drugs that may be causing your symptoms. Please read this topic from the beginning.

[zeromg]

On 4/26/2023 at 7:56 AM, Altostrata said:

You've been taking risperidone for 12 years and lorazepam for a year. Over time, these drugs can behave differently. Your body ages and processes them differently. They can cause progressive small changes.

 

Long-term benzo use alone can cause "depression" as an adverse effect. This can creep up on you. For a time, you were taking a benzo all day long.

 

What times o'clock do you currently take your drugs, with their dosages? How long have you been keeping to this schedule?

 

Please describe your current sleep pattern. How has it changed in the last 3 months?

It's weird I don't get notifications when you reply but I get them when other people reply.

 

For about two weeks I've been taking 0.5 mg lorazepam around 6am and 0.5 mg around 12pm. Before that it was more sporadic and sometimes I would take another third 0.5 mg in a day. Ive been taking 0.75 mg risperidone between 12am and 3am. Ive been doing that for a few weeks. 

 

I've been falling asleep the last few weeks around 10pm. I wake up around 12am, 2am, 4am, 630 and sometimes I am able to sleep until 830am. When I wake up in the night it takes 30 minutes to an hour to get back to sleep. This sleep schedule has been the past few weeks. Before that I can't remember exactly. My memory isn't that great. 

 

In the morning, i am still tired and start to fall back to sleep many times but get jolted awake by anxiety just as i start falling back to sleep (that has been happening the entire 7.5 months I've been in withdrawal).

 

The depression decreased significantly about 4 weeks ago and now I'm dealing with really bad anxiety. I'm not sure if it's worse than before or if I just notice it more because the depression isn't that bad.