zeromg: Effexor / venlafaxine withdrawal - panic

[Altostrata]

The anxiety may be an adverse effect of lorazepam. Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

[zeromg]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:46 AM, Altostrata said:

The anxiety may be an adverse effect of lorazepam. Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. Post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right. This can show if your symptoms are adverse effects from one of your drugs.

The anxiety fluctuates so much throughout the day, it's too hard to keep track of. Besides, I am not risking benzo withdrawal on top of how im already feeling. But thanks for your help. 

[FindRest]

9 hours ago, zeromg said:

The anxiety fluctuates so much throughout the day, it's too hard to keep track of. Besides, I am not risking benzo withdrawal on top of how im already feeling. But thanks for your help. 

I’m not sure what kind of help you are asking for right now. It’s hard being in withdrawals from an Effexor CT alone, much less experiencing possible adverse effects from your benzo and/or risperidone. Yet, the only way to get through this time is by doing the steps needed to help yourself or let others help you. 
 

I see others trying to help you. I also see your reluctance to provide the information they need in order to help you the best they can. How is this going to help things?

 

You seem adamant about not reducing your benzo use, even if it’s what’s increasing your symptoms. It seems like you don’t even want to find out if that’s the case. How does this help you?

 

In my experience, the only way to find out what is causing a particular symptom is by keeping daily records of them throughout the day in comparison to when you take your various medications. These records have been immensely helpful to me throughout my withdrawal.

Edited May 14, 2023 by FindRest

[Altostrata]

We need the daily notes to distinguish benzo effects from any other effects. If your present symptom pattern is acceptable, there is no need to go to the trouble of supplying daily notes or reducing any of your drugs.

 

Please let us know when you would like peer support for tapering.

[zeromg]

On 5/14/2023 at 8:12 AM, Altostrata said:

We need the daily notes to distinguish benzo effects from any other effects. If your present symptom pattern is acceptable, there is no need to go to the trouble of supplying daily notes or reducing any of your drugs.

 

Please let us know when you would like peer support for tapering.

May 17, 2023

12am anxiety 1/10, 0.75 mg risperidone

5am anxiety 7/10, 0.5 mg lorazepam, 25 mg hydroxyzine 

12pm anxiety 5/10, 0.5 mg lorazepam

2pm anxiety 4/10

8pm anxiety 2/10

11:30pm anxiety 1/10, 0.75 mg risperidone

 

I've noticed that, overall, even before getting of the antidepressants, the anxiety is worst in the morning and goes away almost completely by nighttime. I suspect you may be right and the risperidone could be causing this morning anxiety. I don't think it's the lorazepam because when the anxiety starts in the morning, it's about 17 hours after I've taken the most recent dose. 

Can I taper the risperidone and lorazepam at the same time?

 

[Altostrata]

Please continue daily notes, indicating how you feel before and after each dose.

[zeromg]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:28 PM, Altostrata said:

Please continue daily notes, indicating how you feel before and after each dose.

May 20

9PM anxiety 0/10, 0.75 mg risperidone 

 

May 21

4:15AM 25 mg hydroxyzine 

6:55AM 0.5 mg lorazepam 

9:25 anxiety 8/10

3:25 anxiety 7/10, 0.5 mg lorazepam 

5PM anxiety 5/10

7:45PM anxiety 1/10

9PM anxiety 0/10, 0.75 mg risperidone 

 

[Altostrata]

It appears that you are not taking your drugs at the same times each day. This may be causing some of your symptoms.

 

Please settle on a consistent dosing schedule for each of your drugs and continue daily notes, including your sleep pattern.

[Shep]

Quote

 

hydroxyzine Dec 2022 to mid-Apr 2023 50 mg

hydroxyzine 25 mg started on May 16, 2023

 

 

@zeromg Per your signature, you've made a 50% reduction in hydroxyzine one week ago. Why did you reduce it, especially at such a high taper rate? 

 

 

[zeromg]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:28 PM, Altostrata said:

Please continue daily notes, indicating how you feel before and after each dose.

May 22

5:30AM anxiety 7, 25 mg hydroxyzine 

7AM anxiety 7, 0.5 mg lorazepam 

10:45AM anxiety 6

2:15PM anxiety 7, 0.5 mg lorazepam 

4:50PM anxiety 5

7:25PM anxiety 3

9:30PM anxiety 1

[zeromg]

5 hours ago, Shep said:

 

@zeromg Per your signature, you've made a 50% reduction in hydroxyzine one week ago. Why did you reduce it, especially at such a high taper rate? 

 

 

I quit it completely in April then started up again a few weeks later at a lower dose. I quit it because I didn't think it was helping (and possibly causing anxiety based on something I read in a facebook support group) then started again out of desperation and realized it does help. 

[Kay]

Hi zeromg,

 

You poor thing you. For what it's worth, I've been doing a long term taper of venlafaxine too. I've done a long taper from 75mg down to 20mg and have been holding at 20mg for well over 3 years, waiting to stabilize. My symptoms are almost always worst on waking in the morning and gradually improve over the day. So you might consider your anxiety is wd from the ven. Just thought I'd add my experience here. Tho my symptoms are deep depression, rumination, anger, hostility, and crying. I never had depression before in my life until this withdrawal. My lifetime problem was anxiety due to family abuse. 

[Catina7]

Just thought I'd chime in here too, since I'm in the midst of trying to get off Venlafaxine as well.  The WD anxiety is the worst, but it does get better.  I've been holding at a 37.5 mg dose for over 1 1/2 years now.  I'm hoping to begin tapering again beginning in 2024 but am going to go much, much slower than I did before.

[Kay]

Thanks for commenting Catina7. 

[Kay]

Catina7 are your wd symptoms worst on waking/in am? 

[Catina7]

12 minutes ago, Kay said:

Catina7 are your wd symptoms worst on waking/in am? 

No, but I've heard many people say that it's worse in the morning and then it dies down in the evening.

[zeromg]

1 hour ago, Kay said:

Hi zeromg,

 

You poor thing you. For what it's worth, I've been doing a long term taper of venlafaxine too. I've done a long taper from 75mg down to 20mg and have been holding at 20mg for well over 3 years, waiting to stabilize. My symptoms are almost always worst on waking in the morning and gradually improve over the day. So you might consider your anxiety is wd from the ven. Just thought I'd add my experience here. Tho my symptoms are deep depression, rumination, anger, hostility, and crying. I never had depression before in my life until this withdrawal. My lifetime problem was anxiety due to family abuse. 

Thank you so much for your kind words. I agree that the anxiety is from ven withdrawal. My symptoms are also worst in the morning and get better as the day goes on. By nighttime, I'm usually feeling almost completely normal. It's very strange actually but I'm incredibly grateful that I get breaks from the symptoms like that. I was having deep depression until several weeks ago when the severity spontaneously and significantly decreased and has stayed at that low level ever since. I'm still dealing with sleep problems and horrific anxiety (there are other symptoms too but they are manageable). I hope and pray that you heal soon and that you are able to complete your taper with no further problems. 

[zeromg]

1 hour ago, Catina7 said:

Just thought I'd chime in here too, since I'm in the midst of trying to get off Venlafaxine as well.  The WD anxiety is the worst, but it does get better.  I've been holding at a 37.5 mg dose for over 1 1/2 years now.  I'm hoping to begin tapering again beginning in 2024 but am going to go much, much slower than I did before.

Yea, the withdrawal anxiety is horrific. It's nothing like regular anxiety, even though that was debilitating too. Thanks for the encouraging words. I hope and pray that you heal soon and that you get through the rest of your taper with no further problems. 

[Catina7]

28 minutes ago, zeromg said:

Yea, the withdrawal anxiety is horrific. It's nothing like regular anxiety, even though that was debilitating too. Thanks for the encouraging words. I hope and pray that you heal soon and that you get through the rest of your taper with no further problems. 

 

Thanks so much!  Yes, I've never experienced anything quite like it before, and I'm used to dealing with high levels of anxiety.  Hopefully we'll all fully heal in time!

[Kay]

Thanks very much Catina7 and zeromg for your responses. Wishing you the best. -K

[zeromg]

3 hours ago, Catina7 said:

 

Thanks so much!  Yes, I've never experienced anything quite like it before, and I'm used to dealing with high levels of anxiety.  Hopefully we'll all fully heal in time!

<3

[zeromg]

1 hour ago, Kay said:

Thanks very much Catina7 and zeromg for your responses. Wishing you the best. -K

<3

[zeromg]

On 5/22/2023 at 11:08 AM, Altostrata said:

It appears that you are not taking your drugs at the same times each day. This may be causing some of your symptoms.

 

Please settle on a consistent dosing schedule for each of your drugs and continue daily notes, including your sleep pattern.

I'm attempting to take the drugs at the same time every day as you instructed. I havent been completely successful though. 

May 23

12:05AM anxiety 1, risperidone 0.75 mg

5AM? 25 mg hydroxyzine 

7:20AM anxiety 8, 0.5 mg lorazepam 

8:45 anxiety 5

12PM anxiety 8

2:05PM anxiety 8, 0.5 mg lorazepam 

4:05 anxiety 5

5:20 anxiety 8

7:35 anxiety 3

9:30PM anxiety 0, 0.75 mg risperidone 

10:30PM asleep

 

[Shep]

16 hours ago, zeromg said:

I'm attempting to take the drugs at the same time every day as you instructed. I havent been completely successful though. 

 

There are only a few reasons why anyone isn't successful in taking these drugs at the same time of the day every day. These are:

1. Accidentally forgetting to take them at their assigned times. To fix this: Set a timer on your phone to alert you when to take them. 
2. Giving into waves and taking a drug early or taking an extra dose to get through the rough patch. To fix this: learn non-drug coping skills, including the "change the channel technique" to distract until it's time for your next dose.
3. You haven't set getting off these drugs as a priority. Considering you've been here since 2016 and we're still having to remind you of what you need to do, it may be you're not willing or not able to do what you need to do to get off these drugs. To fix this: Decide that this is what you want to do and set a timer on your phone and learn non-drug coping techniques and ways of distracting.

We can't do these things for you, zeromg. You no doubt are under the influence of multiple downers, which can hamper motivation, so you'll need to dig deep and decide it's of the utmost importance to set up the alerts for when to take your drugs and then learn the skills to get through the times of the day when you're symptoms ramp up. 

 

It takes about 21 days to develop a habit and about 90 days for that habit to become an ingrained part of your lifestyle. That's a short period time for pain to get a lifetime of gains by being drug free and healthy. 

 

[zeromg]

May 24

4:20AM Awake

5AM 25 mg hydroxyzine 

7:10AM 0.5 mg lorazepam

2:10PM anxiety 7, lorazepam 0.5 mg

3:33 anxiety 4

9:30 anxiety 2, risperidone 0.75 

10:30? Asleep

[Altostrata]

On 5/23/2023 at 5:21 PM, zeromg said:

Yea, the withdrawal anxiety is horrific. It's nothing like regular anxiety, even though that was debilitating too.

 

It's very possible the anxiety is not a withdrawal symptom but a result of your very irregular lorazepam dosing. 

 

On 5/22/2023 at 4:08 PM, Altostrata said:

Please settle on a consistent dosing schedule for each of your drugs and continue daily notes, including your sleep pattern.

 

We need you to do this -- take your drugs at the same times and same dosages each day. If you cannot do this, the staff cannot offer any counseling.

 

Taking drugs irregularly and making sudden changes, such as halving your hydroxyzine dose, may be causing some of your problems.

[zeromg]

May 25
3AM Awake, then asleep later
4AM 25 mg hydroxyzine 
5:25 Awake, then asleep later
6AM Awake, then asleep later
6:15 Awake, then asleep later
7:10 Awake
7:35 anxiety 9, lorazepam 0.5 mg 
8:35AM anxiety 6
2:22PM anxiety 7, 0.5 mg lorazepam
5PM anxiety 5
9:35 anxiety 2, risperidone 0.75 mg 
10:30? Asleep

[zeromg]

May 26

3:30AM Awake, then asleep later

4:20 25 mg hydroxyzine 

5:30 Awake, then asleep later

6AM Awake, then asleep later

6:50 Awake, anxiety 6, lorazepam 0.5 mg 

11:50 anxiety 5

2pm anxiety 5, lorazepam 0.5 mg 

3:15 anxiety 3

9:30 anxiety 0, risperidone 0.75 mg 

10:30 asleep

[Altostrata]

Please take your drugs on a consistent schedule. An hour's variance can cause problems.

[zeromg]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Please take your drugs on a consistent schedule. An hour's variance can cause problems.

Okay

[zeromg]

May 27
12AM Awake, then asleep 
3AM Awake, then asleep
4:30 25 mg hydroxyzine 
6:05 Awake
6:55 anxiety 7, lorazepam 0.5 mg 
9:15 anxiety 6
2PM anxiety 8, lorazepam 0.5 mg 
3:45 anxiety 6
6:55 anxiety 4
9:15 anxiety 1, risperidone 0.75 mg 
10PM asleep

 

I've been doing some reading and I think I'm actually experiencing akthisia, not anxiety.

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, zeromg said:

I think I'm actually experiencing akathisia, not anxiety.

 

Could very well be.  When I was at my worst, I think that's what I was experiencing.  It's terrifying and so hard to deal with.  Mine eventually did calm down, though, after some time.  I hope yours does too.  Sending you warm, healing thoughts today!  ❤️

[zeromg]

25 minutes ago, Catina7 said:

 

Could very well be.  When I was at my worst, I think that's what I was experiencing.  It's terrifying and so hard to deal with.  Mine eventually did calm down, though, after some time.  I hope yours does too.  Sending you warm, healing thoughts today!  ❤️

Thank you so much, Catina. I really needed your kind, encouraging words. I'm losing hope. Especially because akathisia is also a side effect of risperidone and lorazepam, which I also take. And my brain keeps telling me it won't end until I'm off of them, which will take years and will involve withdrawal symptoms of their own, and I can't feel this way for years. 

[Catina7]

1 hour ago, zeromg said:

my brain keeps telling me it won't end until I'm off of them, which will take years and will involve withdrawal symptoms of their own, and I can't feel this way for years. 

 

We don't know for sure what the future will bring, so just try to focus on the here and now.  I know it's easier said than done, but just take it one day at a time.  Try to find as many coping skills as you can and do them consistently.  You are not alone, that's for sure.  Sending big hugs for you. ❤️

[zeromg]

2 hours ago, Catina7 said:

 

We don't know for sure what the future will bring, so just try to focus on the here and now.  I know it's easier said than done, but just take it one day at a time.  Try to find as many coping skills as you can and do them consistently.  You are not alone, that's for sure.  Sending big hugs for you. ❤️

Thank you so much ❤️

[Altostrata]

The symptoms you report may be due to your inconsistent drug schedule. Please maintain exactly the same dosing schedule. Please include these spells of "akathisia" in your daily notes.