success ☼ Claudius

[Claudius]

I think the fact that you are noticing some healing of the mental/emotional symptoms is a very, very good sign. I hope you don't give in to the pressures to take another med now which could undermine your progress so far. It seems to me this would be a bad time to do that, now that your system is finally showing signs of getting back into a healthy state. You don't want to throw yourself back into chaos now. You've got four years of healing behind you now, that has been hard work for your nervous system and brain, be gentle to them!

 

Is it possible to work a little bit, a part time job, and keep your spending small, and maybe contribute just a little bit from your savings, to buy yourself time for more healing? You might find at this point that a small job would actually be helpful. A little bit of stimulation and challenge might actually be good for you. But not too much. What do you think about this idea?

 

Hello Rhi,

Thanks for your warm words, and indeed I have the impression that healing still takes place and maybe, just maybe, the turning point is not so far away anymore Though I thought the same about 2 years ago... but then the waves were much deeper than they are now.

My lan is to stay away from any meds whil I still can ride it out and see improvements, how small they may be. I already take stimuation and challenge by doing ICT related courses and self study. I get mich satisfaction from it but am still pretty limited in my cognitive power and still hindered by the torturous body sensations. I really hope this will vanish and then I will start more projects. The problem is tha ICT is very difficult business and I do not have so much experience and most functions in this bracnhe are full time. But I keep hoping. Thanx for sharing your advices and we will one day be victurous

[Altostrata]

Claudius, what is ICT?

[Claudius]

Claudius, what is ICT?

Information and Communication Technology, so it means that I am a programmer/system administator

 

Btw, I got a mail back from charly G., he was very kind and gave some new hope

Edited September 8, 2013 by Altostrata
changed name to protect privacy

[Altostrata]

Oh, will Charly allow you to post his e-mail here? We'd very much like to hear from him.

 

Perhaps you can blank out his name and e-mail address?

[Claudius]

OK I will post his mails here, they are in Dutch so I will put them to Googls translater first. I changed my own name to Claudius:

 

 

1th mail:

Dear Claudius,

 

Sorry you had to wait so long for me, I've just uploaded an older song of mine and came to your message. I visit this site and facebook not often and find my peace indeed, but I recognize a cry for help.

Claudius you are recovering, but it depends on how you can change your life and otherwise organize. I think it's really a great performance that you have 4 years no longer used paroxetine. I must of course always mention that I am not a doctor and as such you can not give advice, make suggestions and then you'll understand what I mean.

Continue to believe in your recovery, but let go before anything wrong with that stress has to do. This is rule # 1. You can not function as you did before and if you accept that, comes the solution. You should find a different functionality, although a feature where you and your intellect can continue to rely on, but a living, working and social culture that you offer a different perspective which you your current situation is better and is more relaxed. .

The neurological symptoms you are experiencing do not have any impact on your intellectual abilities. Here you definitely do not worry about it. The damage is more in the emotional brain and the traumatic experience. Also you get over there as long as you continue to have a serious attention to protecting yourself against stressors. This will have to let go of things, which is what I finally was dragged through it has.

I hope I have something you can give them and look forward to your questions and hope I can answer them satisfactorily. Even though it seems hopeless, never give up, but change your strategy.

 

Sincerely,

charles

 

 

2nd mail:

Dear Claudius,

 

Thanks for your detailed and accurate description of your experiences. I get the impression that you are on the right track, it's hard when you are more sensitive nature, like me, especially if you do not the right people around you, the worst are conditioned by the former pharmaceutical marketing myth the "missing chemical in your brains' cling ... if they even know yet what it really put together ... but they lack the ability to distinguish the deception behind which to take and that is a frustrating and disappointing experience.

But it also teaches you what and how easy it is to manipulate people when an authority makes a statement, also how unsubstantiated. The only real hard evidence of what medical science has been that the substance serotonin in rat brains crushed in a test tube combines with an SSRI such.

Keep your strong, but pull back in time to situations that an internal stress due to conflict or competition. I'm about 7 to 8 years after full recovery, but changed by the experience. I could not until after about 10 to 11 years the changes as positive, but that was a different challenge that you yourself are going through and I think because you are well aware of your current situation you faster that process will continue than I had to do.

 

All good!

 

Sincerely,

charles

[Altostrata]

Thank you for posting that, Claudius. We had all wondered what happened to Charly.

 

I am also finding for myself that I need to give up some former habits of thinking. For me, I need to let a lot of things go that I would be resentful and hurt over for a long time.

 

This is difficult but holding onto painful thoughts makes my symptoms worse.

[Claudius]

I see, same counts for me. I am a bit worried by his mention of 6-7 years of recovering. I can deal with the emotional stuff now, I have no delilitating anxiety and my ruminations are subsided to an acceptable and livable level, but the neuro stuff and the jolts still drive me crazy... And because I think that in my case any medcial treatment will be a dangerous experiment, I think I can only wait, wait and wait until the jolts have been subsided. I could be next month, or 3 years more...

Chary talks about accepting that you cannot do what you could before, but I am pretty afraid because I have to adapt to the demands of society, society will not adapt to me. We can only choose to find a less demanding job but those bills must be paid in the end... I realy REALLY hope that I get my strength back. Without the jolts I think I can much, much more than now.

[Altostrata]

Truly, you might try acupuncture again. It deals with those tiny electrical currents.

 

Do you have MDs practicing acupuncture where you live?

[Claudius]

I still work with a kinesiologist who also works on the acupuncturic "meridians". LAst week I visited him and he noticed improvements. Also during the treatments I feel the nerves inthe left chest reacting and moving in a strange way. Each time I think we are getting closer to it but it always comes back. Finding an acupunctirist working with the traditional needles won;t be a problem for me, but I think it will not add much to what my corrent therapist does. I want to continue with him at least to next year and maybe then try the needles again. But I deep inside feel that it is just damage that needs even mrpoe time to resolve. It feels like an neuropathic, electro-chemical disbalance, which also triggers the eye movements which do not really hurt but are surely a sign of still prevalent neurologic damage.

[Rhiannon]

Hi Claudius, just stopped by to say hello.

 

HUG! (unless that's rude in The Netherlands, in which case: Friendly and happy greetings in whatever form is appropriate!)

 

:-)

[Altostrata]

In the Nederlands, they rub noses. I saw it on TV.

[Claudius]

Thanx Rhi, and we do not really rub noses here... We do however have the strange habit to kiss each other 3 times when greeting

I had some better days, on Satusday walked 17 km and had a good dinner. Last days with my mum and pretty emotional, she is sorting old pictures and when I looked at myself as a kid on holiday in Italy with my parents, those are among my best memories. I could not hold back the tears that those days a gone for so long. I think there is still some kind of mourning process going on. And the still very nasty place in the chest always reacts on that, so also some strange emotional component.

Still a way to go, but after hearing the details of Charly G., I am even mroe determinded to hang on and overcome all this!

[Maybe]

Hello Claudius,

 

Good to hear that you have better days inbetween. There surely will be more and more in the months to come!

 

Did Charly really fully recover? For you wrote something like "not living like before". That somehow sounds like a limitation.

[Claudius]

Thanks MAybe. Charly wrote that he fully recovered and we all will. I think we will finally recover but for some at a large cost, not being able to work for years can have immense impact on people.

I think he means that we have to be very careful to avoid falling again in the trap putting purselves under so much stress (or let others do that) that you cannot handle it. I think he really means that we must avoid to let our true self get so twisted and suppressed that we need to turn to the meds. I see very clearly now what brought me to the meds and that it could have been avoided with the right insight and/or guidance.

He told to be fully recovered after 6-7 years and about 10 years to get something positive from the whole experience. But he added that me me/us that could be shorter because we have already so much support from sites like SA and knowledge about the issue. I guess in his time there was hardly any support available online.

[Maybe]

Ah, ok. Thank you for the clarification

[Claudius]

Today I walked 16 kilometers with my hiking club. Although I was even able to do this in my darkest w/d periods, I feel always good when I finished a hike. I am able to socialize and feel no anxiety. Only I still feel the terrible electrical jolts in the heart, my prevalent torturous symptom for a long time already... together with a basic feeling of having failed in life and career. But many people here will reconginze that so I am surely not alone... Just feel SOOO eager to leave thgis behind and hint for a new job, with new knowledge, new elan and new wisdom. Just those jolts really must be gone...

[Altostrata]

Claudius, I had funny sensations around my heart for a long time. For me, it was bubbling or fizzing, sometimes something knocking against my heart (I know this sounds odd, as so many of our symptoms do). This sensation was usually accompanied by stomach gas and belching.

 

I think I mentioned this before, my acupuncturist, who has an MD and PhD in neurophysiology, said this sounded like activity of the vagus nerve, a part of the autonomic nervous system in the middle of the chest which sends signals to both the heart and stomach.

 

My symptoms eventually did quiet down. Perhaps the acupuncture helped. But my digestive system also improved at the same time.

 

Now, I am wondering, maybe one can affect this type of symptom with attention to the gut? We've got the SCD/GAPS/Paleo Diet discussion, this low-irritant diet seems to help sometimes with very severe symptoms.

 

Perhaps one can work from the gut up to the heart?

[Claudius]

This is interesting, my kinesiology therapist confirms that the nerve centers in the chest (the solar plexus) are unusually active and indeed the problems, jolts, tinglings and even the eye twitching seem to originate from this area. MAybe indeed the nervus vagus is involved here too. It is still very bad but on the days I feel it less I immedaitely fele way better. LAst days are rough again

Sometimes during the therpay sessions the area contracts with audible noises. And lying in bed and concetrating on the area, it reacts sometimes and immediately gives relief.

I have called a new acupuncturist (living in the same street as I do) and want to give it a try. If she is interested after hearing my story I am curious if acupuntcure will have any effect on it. Bacsuse I already spent thousands of bugs to pretty useless supplemenh therapies, I want to give it at most 4 times to look what it does.

By the way my ongoing problems seem to conentrate on the heart, stomach and intestines (apart from the psyvhotic anger and grief which is much less now) so I guess it all has the same origin, the nervus vagus and/or the serotonine system.

[Claudius]

Some update, now almost 4 years sick! But changes again... I feel the strange sensations in the chest coming mre and more to the surface, concentration is bad right now but feel in fact a bit stronger. For the first time I start to hesitate whether my current problems are still w/d or the infamous return of original issues.

And they are definately there. I talked a lot about my bullying past from about 22 yaers ago, but began to realize that the pattern of rejection and bullying is something that haunted me throughout my whole life, especially since adolescence. It was then that I started to develep intense sexual feelings for girls and discovered t my astonishment that they had virtually no interest in me. And while I had some short interactions with women, I still have to look back and countless rejections and indifference. I am not especially shy and certainly do not lack a sense of humour and always had friends, my physical lookings were always a problem for me. Some strange hair disease bothered me a lot since the age of 17 and made me target for a lot of insulting comments and jokes, not the least from women.

Of course this has nothing to do with Paxil, except for that the ongoing feeling of failing in finding love and sexual relationships took a great toll on my life energy and brought me to the pills.

I read the very disturbing debute novel "Whatever" (Extension du domain de la lutte) of Michel Houellebecq and though I never considered myself as depressive, I felt like when I finshed this novel...

I have started acupunture this week and felt some new tension building up. It is still in my body and I will try this new thing and hope to find a way to cope with the things I described above. For some reason btw I do believe that the real w/d is coming to an end but I get back someting that is still hard to handle.

[Barbarannamated]

Claudius,

I feel like a newbie here with still so far to go, however, I want to tell you that you always inspire me. Your honesty--whether a good or bad day--feels so...REAL and from the heart. After being numb for so long (me, that is), it feels good to connect, and you allow that to happen.

THANK YOU. Kiss kiss kiss!

Also good to read Charly G's letters. I believe he wrote a bit on the pineal gland/HPA axis/cortisol that I've not yet been able to digest.

 

I am tending to not like the term 'recover/y'. It implies going back to what i was and im seeing that was not a healthy person. also have alot of anger about how much of my life has been stolen from me.

RE: your physician cousin... Great! I believe it will be non-psychiatrists who eventually make a difference because prescribing psychotropics is not their bread and butter. I communicated with a GP in Canada who first told me of Healy's book. I never got her real name, but she seemed to be quite passionate, knowledgeable, and involved.

 

Last comment... I see not wanting to live as something very different than wanting to die. Hard to explain but maybe someone relates.

 

Barb

[stan]

hi Claudius,

 

it is time to turn the page of past bullying and feeling inferior, it was your childhood and adolescence; as it was not funny for you, try to have a better life since now; constantly refering to past will not help you to built a new life, even a modest life

we cannot change the past (even very bad); so be busy with actual and future;

[Altostrata]

Yes, turn the page! Great way to visualize it. It's past history.

[Claudius]

Some update again, now at about the 50 months mark!!!

I am glad to announce some further improvements. the torturous jolts have lessened, they still occasionally pop up in a nasty way but overall my concentration power has increased a lot. I am involved in a new semi-volunatry Web programming project and things go ptretty well. Muy client is very pleased about my creative way of findong solutions and building her site. And I have some ongoing financial support and professional guidance form the insurance company who tend to believe my story and in my further and maybe final recovery, hopefully in 2012.

Also I issued a formal complaint at my GP's office, about 3 weeks ago I had an appointment and they were very kind to me and finally apeared to take me serious. They offered help in seeking contact with a prominent Dutch spychiatrist who does recognize the problems with the meds, but maybe it will not be necessary anymore.

THere are- however,sstill neurologocal problems and the nasty yinglings, but I am confident they will finally dissapear in time. My original issues are the worst part now, looking back at the many rejections in my life still hurts a lot. But this is not damage of the pills and therefore falls outside the scope of SA

THanks for listening and I want to offer some hope, big improvemnets can come after 4 or 5 years. For the people earlier in the process and feeling desperate as I did, please find some way to overcome the time, even if this means to live in a single room for some periode... I believe it is worth it! If I will heal, anybody will!

[Altostrata]

Oh, Claudius, I am so happy your symptoms and life are moving in a better direction!

 

It's good to hear you've convinced the insurance company, too.

 

May I suggest you pursue the consultation with the psychiatrist? I am sure you would have a very interesting conversation. And, if you judge him to be truly knowledgeable, he would be a welcome addition to our roster of sympathetic doctors, which is intended to be world-wide.

[compsports]

Hi Claudius,

 

I am so happy to hear about your improvements in light of how much you have suffered. Reading your post really made my day.

 

I can relate to the "rejections in life" issues as I experienced one of them last night. Another post.

 

Actually though, it was indirectly related to my being on the pills which led me to engage in actions that have been misunderstood. Is anything like that true for you?

 

CS

[Claudius]

Thanx CS for your reaction, when I talk about rejections I mostly mean things that happend before I went on the pills. Some of it is work/carreer-related but the most predominant issue was with girls/women. And I think this is what brought, aming some other things, my self-esteem and feelings of being in control to a bare minimum and finally paved the way to the pills. And this is what I get back now, though I am still without a job, my physical condition and congintive functions still improve and myu guess is that next year I will be ready for huting for a new job. And because I already work on some projects and did a lot of study activities last year, I think I will succeed. But finding some luck in a relationship after so many rejections is another part wich bothers me most right now. And this is indeed one of the infamous "original issues". But at the same time I am again in some kind of wave (while still able to wrk and study) so maybe some more positive update later

[Barbarannamated]

Claudius,

So good to hear of you making plans! That is such a hurdle for me, so you give me hope that one day I will again be able to engage brain and move - in any direction.

I don't know if this was intentional play on words, but you must coin "spychiatry"! Love it!!

And the rejections...I've been there many times. I believe that life events like this somehow sharpen the b***sh**t detectors within us and guide us toward healthy people. I have no solid evidence of that yet (aside from all of you!), but I can feel an internal shift. I hope that makes sense.

I was always a 'fringe person' trying to find where I fit. Now I'm glad I didn't fit in. I wish I had realized that many years ago!

Barb

[compsports]

Thanx CS for your reaction, when I talk about rejections I mostly mean things that happend before I went on the pills. Some of it is work/carreer-related but the most predominant issue was with girls/women. And I think this is what brought, aming some other things, my self-esteem and feelings of being in control to a bare minimum and finally paved the way to the pills. And this is what I get back now, though I am still without a job, my physical condition and congintive functions still improve and myu guess is that next year I will be ready for huting for a new job. And because I already work on some projects and did a lot of study activities last year, I think I will succeed. But finding some luck in a relationship after so many rejections is another part wich bothers me most right now. And this is indeed one of the infamous "original issues". But at the same time I am again in some kind of wave (while still able to wrk and study) so maybe some more positive update later

 

Thanks Claudius, now I understand.

 

You're darn right, you will succeed.

 

CS

[Claudius]

@Barbara, "spychiatry" was really an unintended type, but indeed makes some sense! I remember a book I read decades ago as a kid about my hobby in those days (building electronical devices). THe author stated that building something that works from scratch and getting the confidence from that does more for your well-being than talking to a psychiatrist or some other "spy of the soul" (!). And that was in a time before SSRI's and very few people were on meds. But indeed is "spychiatry" not a wrong term in that light LOL! I have to add that in those thays the shrinks probably were more oriented to talking and less to prescribing...so things have gone really worse the last decades.

[Claudius]

Ugh... I am in something of a wave again! Not as hellish as it used to be, but the tinglings and feeling of "my nerves being in a knot in my chest" is back! I am still able to function on a few hours base but this is really the last thing that prevents me from feeling and acting "normal" again and it comes back and back... now at 50 months!!!

Surely I am a worst case scenario but I am still pretty confident I have seen the worst. But OMG it takes sooooo long!!! I really wonder how many people still have problems so far out!

[Maybe]

Don't despair! You had some really good days and weeks prior to that wave and I guess it will not be that long. You are on the road to full recovery

 

I reall do not understand why some do take that long and others do not, even if their wd was much more severe in some cases. It is a mystery...

[Claudius]

Thanks MAybe, and indeed I have good hope this wave will not be so long and severe as previous ones.

I hope you are doing better too, I read you had some really hard times recently.

[Maybe]

Well, it is not too good at the moment. Had two weeks that were overall ok and am now in up and down cycle again. I am looking forward to my chistmas holidays starting this Saturday. I really hope that I will be able to get some good relaxation during those 2 weeks.

 

Had some decent days last time I was at home.

 

Much more healing to you, Claudius

[miriza]

Please, please, please, stay away from amitriptyline (Elavil, a TCA), if you have not taken it yet. This is an evil drug, as evil as the SSRIs.

This drug should be called "El Evil." See reviews here: http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=12703&name=ELAVIL. This drug made me extremely rageful and impulsive especially in the mornings as soon as I woke up. It wasn't until I found many similar reviews on askapatient.com that it made me realize that drugs were my problem all along...drugs were making me ill. I was on 75 mg of Elavil and even people on 10 mg who were put on it for migraines complained about suicidal thoughts, rage, impulsivity.

 

Yes, a lot of people can stop taking the TCAs without major withdrawal problems, but that was not the case for me. I am struggling with the same mental/physical/emotional/soul symptoms as SSRI withdrawal. I am extremely ridiculously hypersensitive to psych meds, so I may be an exception, but just be aware that any psych drug is potentially dangerous.

[Claudius]

Thanks Miriza, and I have not taken any drugs since my last dose of PAxil more than 4 years ago and I have no intention to do so anymore. Though I am again in a wave, now at 50 months, I feel I am healing and will stay on the course. Maybe one year more, but I am determined to make it and do not touch any drug anymore. I have improved defintately a lot, even last year, and the remaining nasty stuff is still related to PAxil and will not be cured by another psych drug. No psychiatist will ever earn a penny on me...

[renee]

Hi there Claudius.I too have been trying to get off an antidepressant,cipralex for over 5 years.I tried many times to get off but only now relize I was doing it way to fast.The withdrawl was horrible each time.I felt totally rage and irritation each time.Now im doing it very slowly.I do have some thoughts about your situation.I know u feel really quilty for the things you did to your former bully.but i WOULD NOT i think you had ever right to be angry and try to get back at him.He deserved it all .You did not kill him so forgive yourself.bullys are evil people and I for one think that its awesome you stood up for yourself.There is nothing wrong with that.Know i know its not healthly to stay in an angry place forever but it does have a place.Its healthy and normal to feel angry after abuse.Dont feel bad for that.That is what could be keeping you stuck.