Kernol: was doing well on my sertraline taper but now in hell and doc reinstated

[Kernol]

On 5/20/2020 at 7:11 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Yes, I would do that. Please let us know of big changes in symptoms.

 

The female cycle involves the production of prostaglandins prior to menstruation. For many women, it's these hormones that cause the more disruptive symptoms. Ibuprofen dampens down prostaglandins. If you take it in advance of menstruation, it can lessen cramps and other symptoms. For you, the prostaglandin rise may start 10 days ahead of menstruation. A few days of ibuprofen at that time of month might help.

thanks @Altostrata I feel best from day 20 onwards so I am guessing that is because progesterone is at its highest from around this time  and My anxiety levels seem to lower until my period starts and then it changes and is now slowly amping up again. Perhaps this is why my semi-windows are so short. I have had low progesterone levels for a few years prior to withdrawal and now I am in perimenopause it is probably lower still.  I will do my next drop tonight.
 

Thanks for all your help as always 

[Altostrata]

Please do some stretching and hall walking.

 

Did we talk about fish oil and magnesium?

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I did start taking the fish oil but then I stopped and I can’t remember why I think I thought it was giving me an upset stomach but I am not sure if it was that. I don’t take magnesium but I do have Epsom salt baths and I have spinach in my smoothies with flax chia and pumpkin seeds daily but I don’t know if that’s enough magnesium? 

[Altostrata]

Epsom salts gives you magnesium through your skin.

 

Hang in there, Kernol.

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I have had a big change in symptoms the last few days. Extreme depression so bad I have had to spend most of the weekend in bed as it feels too unbearable to be awake. I don’t know if this is hormonal as o had a bad time last month in the early part of my cycle with depression although it wasn’t quite as severe as this or whether it’s all the small drops suddenly being noticed by my system? I’m scared as to what is happening 

[jozeff]

Hi kernol!

 

I'm so sorry to hear you are doing not good.

 

You have to keep the faith and stay strong!

 

Are you still on 15.67 mg?  If so you have been tapering very slowly after messing around with your dose. I have been in the same situation and struggling for almost 2 years and tapering slowly...... It's unbelievable how things can get messed up.

 

You are probably still having withdrawal symptoms from fluctuations in dose in 2018. You will will get there eventually you just have to stay positive even though it's very hard!

 

 

Stay strong!

 

 

Jozeff

[Altostrata]

If this is the same point in your cycle, it's likely this symptom is due to female hormones. Did you try ibuprofen? There may be herbs for pre-menstrual symptoms.

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata yes it was the same time Last month but it is after my cycle not before so not premenstrual so I am guessing ibuprofen wouldn’t work. Low estrogen possibly which Might be exacerbating the withdrawal drop? I know estrogen is supposed to increase serotonin. I don’t know 

[Altostrata]

Please disregard any theories connected with serotonin.

 

You are having symptoms from your hormonal cycle. Ibuprofen is an anti-prostaglandin. Prostaglandins are released at ovulation and other times in the menstrual cycle. See https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3297513/

[sunnysideup69]

Hey @Kernol, dropping by to say hello. Good to see you had some better days, I know you're feeling a bit worse again right now but it will pass. It's great that you've figured out that it's hormonal. Sending you good wishes from London xxx

[Kernol]

On 5/26/2020 at 5:55 AM, sunnysideup69 said:

Hey @Kernol, dropping by to say hello. Good to see you had some better days, I know you're feeling a bit worse again right now but it will pass. It's great that you've figured out that it's hormonal. Sending you good wishes from London xxx

thanks @sunnysideup69 I really hope it will pass and I hope you are doing ok? 

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I think this is definitely withdrawal. Hormones may be playing into it but my mental symptoms such as perpetual high anxiety state and depression feel exactly like when this whole nightmare first started 19 months ago when I came off it the first time that rendered me completely non functional and having to take large doses of lorazepam to get through the day and that scares me a great deal as I haven’t felt this way for more than a year. I really thought I had got away with the 10% drop but it must have just caught up with me as I am getting worse each day. I did not do the drop yesterday - I don’t know what to do. I am petrified I am going to stay like this or get worse. I can’t even sleep or eat. I keep waking in intense panic all night through and when I do sleep I am having terrible nightmares and night sweats and my arms are numb plus the teeth clenching is so severe 

[sunnysideup69]

1 hour ago, Kernol said:

thanks @sunnysideup69 I really hope it will pass and I hope you are doing ok? 

 

Yes, am beginning to do better, thank you. Last week was great. This week is a tiny bit worse, but it's a very mild kind of 'wave', so things are going in the right direction. I'm following you and rooting for your recovery. You have invisible supporters  xxx 

[Altostrata]

Kernol, we had talked about the interplay between sertraline and diazepam. Think of your drug metabolism as a drain. Both drugs are trying to go through the same pipe. This causes them both to back up and it seems you get bad symptoms from too much sertraline.

 

When you reduce the sertraline, it relieves the crowding at the drain for maybe 4-7 days. Then both drugs push in and block the drain again.

 

That is why I suggested this:

On 5/7/2020 at 10:30 AM, Altostrata said:

I have also observed this pattern. I believe that your micro-tapering sertaline every 4 days may stay ahead of the curve. Theoretically, at some point, the diazepam-sertraline balance will be such that the sertraline is metabolized better and you won't get this bad reaction because it backs up.

 

With what tiny reduction of sertraline would you be comfortable?

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I had been reducing every 5 days at 0.25mg last time was Friday. I have become very unwell since then and progressively worse each day to the state I reached yesterday which is just a perpetual state of emotional pain anxiety and depression I cannot even leave the bed so I am not sure what another drop would do? It seems like my brain takes a long time to register my drops as when I came off the drug completely in Nov 2018 I was fine for several weeks before I started getting panic attacks and  then it went downhill from there to the exact same state I am in now. One thing really worrying me is I haven’t felt like this since then. I have had depression anxiety terror and all sorts of mental symptoms as you know but not this which feels exactly like my pre-existing illness which became so severe and why I always ended up on anti-depressants. This is what scares me the most. I feel like the windows I have had were some weird chemical flukes or honeymoon periods just like when I came off the vortioxetine. 

[Altostrata]

How much sertraline are you taking now? What is your drug schedule, with dosages?

 

Is there any change in your symptoms after you take sertraline?

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I am now on 14.75mg sertraline ( will update my signature) I do not notice any changes after taking it. I am still taking same schedule of diazepam As before:

 

9am 2mg Diazepam

1pm 1mg diazepam 

2pm 14.75mg sertraline 

6pm 2mg diazepam 

[Altostrata]

Hang in there, no changes for now, your system needs to adjust again.

[Kernol]

Ok Thanks @Altostrata 

[Terry]

Today is difficult.  Sertraline WD, covid19 restrictions, rioting and destruction in our cities, all contributing to increased anxiety and depression.  I'm trying to work on a project, but my heart isn't in it.

[Altostrata]

Kernol, how are you?

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata thanks for asking. I am in a bad way. I was having what I thought were windows but they were only happening to me during the second phase of my menstrual cycle when progesterone is produced. I have since researched this and realise that progesterone is cross tolerant to Benzos And I don’t know about anti depressants but it effectively masks my withdrawal symptoms for those days and I was feeling so good. Then every month once my cycle finished around day 3-14 I am plunged into hell again and the baseline appears to be getting worse. When I was having my last progesterone window I thought I was stabilising on the sertraline and so should concentrate on reducing the diazepam so I reduced it by 0.5mg on 4 June. I am now in such a state I can’t sleep at all as I am woken with adrenaline rushes every couple of minutes all night long, my body feels like it’s on fire, I cannot eat or function my mental symptoms are so bad I have had to take more diazepam just to survive. I have done a further cut in sertraline on Monday night to 14mg from 14.75mg as I thought there is little point in waiting. I can only hope that things improve again in the second half of my cycle this month although I am only on day 8. I don’t really know what to do.

 

the strange part I can’t work out is why this has only started hopping in last 3 months? I am so grateful for the lessening of the symptoms during the progesterone time but so disappointed that those days are only short and rest of the month things deteriorate. 

[Terry]

Hello Kernol, I am so sorry to hear what you are going through.  I have been waiting to see a post from you, and concerned that maybe you weren't doing well.  This whole process is so terribly unfair.  I pray that you will receive some relief  soon.

 

You're in my prayers,

Terry

[Fluctibelle]

Hello Kernol,

 

I am so sorry for you!! it is an ongoing nightmare...but one day you will awake!

I am sure you will! please hold on

 

Best

Maria

[Altostrata]

That is interesting, Kernol. I wonder if you might benefit from a little progesterone supplementation? There are creams that you could use a tiny bit each day at those other times in your cycle.

 

At one time, I tried this, see

 

I think a very, very small amount, say the diameter of a green pea, might be a safe sample.

 

See

 

 

[Kernol]

Thanks so much  @Altostrata I am willing to try it! It’s unbelievable what has happened to me these last 3 months like I have been living 2 different lives. The windows during the progesterone phase were so wonderful I felt almost normal (apart from the intrusive memories and the teeth grinding etc) but so much calmer my mood lifted I could eat, even bake, had motivation to do the house up etc. and if I could do anything to stop the drop back into such an intense withdrawal where I feel completely deranged/depressed/pacing floors unable to eat sleep or function it would be fantastic. Even if it helped me sleep that would be something.
 

I wonder why I have only just started seeing this happen? Could it be that reducing the sertraline means I am producing more progesterone? I don’t know it’s just strange. 

[Kernol]

Oh my goodness @Altostrata this is exactly what Is happening to me! It now all makes so much sense 

[Altostrata]

4 hours ago, Kernol said:

I wonder why I have only just started seeing this happen? Could it be that reducing the sertraline means I am producing more progesterone? I don’t know it’s just strange. 

 

This may be due to your hormonal changes, which are progressing.

[Erell]

How are you doing dear Kernol ?

[Kernol]

On 7/9/2020 at 7:58 AM, Erell said:

How are you doing dear Kernol ?

hi @Erell how kind of you to check on me. I am still here wading through the waves. I did not get a progesterone window this month so it has just been one long wave. I continue with my taper and hope for the best. How are you doing? I hope you are doing well on your journey 

[Erell]

14 hours ago, Kernol said:

hi @Erell how kind of you to check on me. I am still here wading through the waves. I did not get a progesterone window this month so it has just been one long wave. I continue with my taper and hope for the best. 

Hi dear

How Nice it is to read from you !

You are so brave,  you inspire me ❤

Yes, we will reach the best

Take care

 

[Erell]

Hi dear !

How was July ?

Thinking of you 😙

[Kernol]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:58 AM, Erell said:

Hi dear !

How was July ?

Thinking of you 😙

hi @Erell sorry for my late reply I am in a bad wave this week - some new symptoms joint pains and tenderness with fatigue and the usual mental horror so I have been in survival mode.

 

the good news is that right before that I had my longest and best window (3 weeks!!) 😀and I made the most of it with lots of fun with friends and family and even went out shopping a few times which is massive for me. I do hope this is a good sign of healing even though the wave is now a bad one.

 

i hope you are doing well?❤️

 

 

 

[Terry]

Hi Kernol,

 

I've been wondering about you, so it's good to hear you've had a nice long window.  It sounds like you had some fun during that time.  Wishing you well during this current wave and hope it's brief.

 

Take care,

Terry

[Altostrata]

A window! Hurray! What is your drug schedule now?

[Erell]

Hello Kernol,

 

A window ! Wow ! 

Happy to read you had fun with friends and family 🤗

 

Are you still tapering Sertraline or holding ?

 

Hugs