Kernol: was doing well on my sertraline taper but now in hell and doc reinstated

[Kernol]

3 hours ago, Erell said:

Hello Kernol,

 

A window ! Wow ! 

Happy to read you had fun with friends and family 🤗

 

Are you still tapering Sertraline or holding ?

 

Hugs 

hi @Erell  am still tapering 5% every 2 weeks. I am on 11.96mg now. Yes I have had three windows since I started tapering in April so I hope this is a good sign even though the waves are bad ❤️

 

[Kernol]

12 hours ago, Altostrata said:

A window! Hurray! What is your drug schedule now?

hi @Altostrata yes I have had 3 windows now - the last being the longest! They are still tied to my cycle and my waves come from day 4 onwards like clockwork and are really bad but I am hoping that the windows are a good sign? I didn’t have a window in cycle before this one and strangely my wave was not as bad following the lack of window and Instead I got this longer window - it’s almost as if the more of a window I get the more I get hit by a wave when my progesterone falls.

 

my schedule now is I am on 11.96mg sertraline reducing 5% every 2 weeks. I also did some drops Of 0.25mg diazepam so I am now on 3.75mg - I will probably not drop this further for a while as it may have been why this wave has given me new symptoms such as bowel issues and joint aches - I don’t know perhaps it is too much for my system to cope with.

 

i made the most of my window though it was beautiful but it now feels like it happened to someone else as everything becomes mentally distorted again in a wave.....

[Altostrata]

Windows are a good sign! I hope you're out of the woods regarding the sertraline-diazepam interaction.

 

Are you feeling adverse effects from the diazepam?

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata when in a wave like now I feel all the same mental symptoms like an acid trip that I had before and become non functional plus I now have joint pains and bowel inflammation. I don’t know if this is from the sertraline or diazepam reductions. 
 

Thank you I  do hope windows are a good sign - is it normal for the waves to be so bad? It seems so odd that you can go from feeling nearly normal to this mental hell every month? The waves are not lessening at all in their intensity

[Altostrata]

Yes, that's the thing about waves. Very confusing and frustrating.

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I am after your valuable advice once again. I have deteriorated this last month beyond any month since I began tapering the sertraline. I have had no respite in 3 weeks and I am in a mental torture chamber of depression acid trip time travelling and strong electric anxiety. The nightmares are so bad I can’t sleep and my bruxism has got so bad again Teetg smashing down on one another even with mouth guard. My face has changed shape where my upper jaw is now protruding forward and I find it v difficult to open my jaw during day. 
 

I have been doing 5% every 2 weeks since April now on 10.36mg sertraline. I even realised that the windows I was getting were also chemical like something was calming my nervous system down and lifting my mood and it wasn’t the real state I would be in as I have also had some glimpses of my preexisting anxiety Condition this month and I know that is the real state of mind I would be in not this artificial calm state that I get during the windows- despite them being wonderful. 
 

my question is given the severity of my symptoms that have now Brought me to my knees and I am desperate - is there ever a case when someone can safely do more than 10% a month drop as I can’t do this for another year before I am even off it? I am so ill now (as Ill as I was in October last year when I dropped it to 8 and then updosed to 16) I just want to expedite this process but as safely as possible.
 

Thanks for any advice  

[ChessieCat]

On 8/15/2020 at 2:12 AM, Altostrata said:

I hope you're out of the woods regarding the sertraline-diazepam interaction.

 

Are you still taking the diazepam?

[Kernol]

3 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Are you still taking the diazepam?

hi @ChessieCat yes I am taking 3.75mg of diazepam. It is I believe my withdrawal from the sertraline that has been now going on for nearly 2 years in mental hell causes all these symptoms as I had come off it then put back on a huge dose so I guess kindled my system and I am just so tired it is too much to go on in this unbearable suffering for a long taper when I have nearly 2 years already like this. I also fear what my jaw will be like with another year tapering this at 10%. I am just wondering in my case if there is ever a way of doing this quicker? I am so desperate 

[Erell]

Hello Kernol,

 

I'm sorry you're struggling and hope you'll feel better soon ❤

 

I haven't understood all your drugs interactions, but if I'm right you tappered Sertraline in order to lessen an interaction between Sertraline and Diazepam.

Perhaps now 5% every 2 weeks is too much and your CNS needs a slower taper ?

I don't know if people with more experience will agree, will be interesting to see if they have a guess.

 

I really don't think there is a quick way to go off these drugs safely, or SA wouldn't exist.

However, it seems that long holds and slooow tapers win the race.

 

Please hang in there : you had a beautiful window recently, and even if this window doesnt feel "normal" it shows that your CNS can be calmer.

 

❤

[Kernol]

Hi @Erell thank you for posting and your comments. I am not sure if I do have an adverse reaction between the two drugs I think I just have a severe withdrawal from sertraline due to me being put back on it again and then down dosing and updosing myself last September when all the acid trip symptoms and bruxism etc started.

 

The problem is I held for 8 months after that and nothing got better I was just in waves within waves o never stabilised. So holds don’t work for me it seems and I just cannot face another year or more to taper off this if it is going to be this intense and I have already lived in this hell for nearly 2 years already. It’s truly barbaric and inhumane. ❤️

[Altostrata]

Have you tried holding on the sertraline dosage at this level? Your symptoms sound like withdrawal symptoms.

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I haven’t tried holding no as I held for so many months and nothing got better and I feel like I wasted 8 months Trying to stabilised and I  don’t want it prolong this even further. How long would you suggest I hold it for? 

[Altostrata]

It may be you are down to a low enough dosage of sertraline that it and diazepam can share your liver enzymes without fighting. Can we see what happens over a month?

[Kernol]

Ok thanks @Altostrata Iit has already been 2 weeks since my last drop so I will not do the next one and wait for 2 weeks to see if anything changes.

 

If this doesn’t improve anything - is there any way I can get off this drug quicker now I am at a lower dose? I know it isn’t standard practice and I understand why people go slowly if symptoms are just about tolerable Or bearable but I really can’t do another year or more before I am even off the drug doing these small increments. I don’t have enough left in me I want off it so I can hopefully start to heal from the damage it has done. When I look at the Bruxism that started a year ago and has never stopped even in the windows I had - it is just appears to be continuing to do so much damage all of this time I am taking it. 

[Altostrata]

I understand, Kernol. I wish I could figure out a way to get you stabilized properly. Your periods of windows indicate there's a relationship to the drug dosages.

 

I don't know what suddenly going off would do.

 

If you try holding for a bit and you feel better, you will know that your system is adapting to the new drug balance. That would not only be welcome but an indication to you about what rate of taper you can tolerate.

[Kernol]

Ok thanks @Altostrata I will see if things ease at all. I guess I wasn’t suggesting I jump off it now but I would feel a lot better if I thought I only had another 6 months to get off it as opposed to more than another year doing the 10% a month then maybe it is doable although I know it’s a delicate balance. I guess I feel so angry at myself that I was at 8mg this time last year and if I hadn’t updosed I would be off it by now. 

[Altostrata]

Please don't be angry at yourself. You've been incredibly tenacious. You are stronger than you know.

 

We can't tell the future. May be you can stabilize and not worry about how long it will take to go off, you'll be more in control.

[Erell]

Dear Kernol 

 

I utterly can understand the angry part. 

I feel angry at myself too.

However, I try to deal with this by viewing it as an Emotionnal Spiral : when we feel angry at ourselves, we are full of "what if". What if I had do this, what if I hadn't do this...

Well, the answer to what if is generally : nobody knows, because nobody can predict an hypothetical future. 

 

So this angry feelings build up with thoughts: I know how hard it is, but my best tip is to try to not engage with thoughts. Thoughts often lie. 

 

About holding : you may have held your Sertraline dose steady during 8 months, but in the meantime your CNS went through a lot of changes  : vortioxetine, Diazepam, Lorazepam.

All these changes might have upset your CNS.

Maybe now your body needs a long hold without drug changes. 

 

I understand too well the need to do something to get better,  but please hang in there. As Altostrata said, you are stronger than you know  ❤

[Kernol]

Thank you dear @Erell you are of course right we can never know what would have happened and it is pointless in me thinking this - I have to move forward. I am trying my positive affirmations every day that I will heal to drown out the noise of all the negative ones!

 

i will hold this taper for a month to see if anything eases - tolerable would be nice!!!

 

❤️

[Kernol]

21 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please don't be angry at yourself. You've been incredibly tenacious. You are stronger than you know.

 

We can't tell the future. May be you can stabilize and not worry about how long it will take to go off, you'll be more in control.

thanks @Altostrata I hope so too and of course you are right  I would not be anywhere near as concerned about the length of my Taper if it was tolerable. I do worry that I had these intense symptoms when I held for many months so my negative mind is telling me That holding will not help me now but let’s see 🤞 

[Altostrata]

You were holding at a substantially higher dose.

 

Please let's see what resting on drug changes does.

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I am getting more symptomatic as the weeks go by - I have not been this ill since Last year.  There has been no respite I am in survival mode for the last 6 weeks and I have even had to have rescue doses of lorazepam from the crisis team as I wanted to end my life. 
 

I just don’t know what to do - i feel I have to get off this sertraline I simply won’t survive another year of this doing a 10% taper. 
 

holding does not seem to help me at all. 

 

I am so desperate after 22 months of this.

 

is there ever a case when someone is so sick on the drug they are better off getting off it quicker as holding doesn’t seem to work for me and I just can’t face years of this 
 

 

[Erell]

Kernol 

 

I'm sorry to read you're struggling, send you much love ❤

 

I don't see it in your signature : what are your doses now ?

Since when are you holding ?

 

Hang in there, please remember this is possible : 

 

On 8/14/2020 at 10:30 AM, Kernol said:

 I have had three windows since I started tapering in April 

 

❤

[Kernol]

Hi @Erell I am on 11.36mg sertraline held since August 12th. I just get worse each week. It is too unbearable to even describe.  
 

it’s so strange I had a short 1 week window when I came off vortioxetine in November and then a big wave hit then I had 3 windows in the progesterone days of cycle when I started tapering the Sertraline in April but now it has been 2 cycles without any windows. It’s almost like my nervous system likes changes initially and then I suffer much later. I know holding and slow tapers are the way normally but  I just don’t have the fight left for years of this - I fight through every minute of every hour. 
 

Thank you and I hope you are doing well @Erell ❤️

[Altostrata]

Are you not still taking diazepam?

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata yes I am still taking 3.75mg of diazepam 

[Altostrata]

You've occasionally added lorazepam? What is your current symptom pattern?

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata

yes I have had to take lorazepam on 3 occasions because I was/ still am suicidal and I have also taken one today as symptoms so bad I couldn’t stand anymore. I hate taking it but it is the only thing that mutes down the symptoms a bit - the diazepam doesn’t touch them. I can take a lot but this is too much too brutal and relentless.  It’s continuous. 

 

symptom pattern is pretty much the same all day long no particular time of day when it is better so Absolutely no respite at all and nights my sleep is very bad. 
 

symptoms:

-electric plugged into socket acid trip type chemical anxiety in my chest so strong it makes me continuously nauseated and sometimes vomiting 

- doom/dread feeling darker like someone has just died throughout the day 

- derealisation / time travelling 

- intrusive memories of old dreams, places, people that come with doom/dread or acid trip feeling 

- agitation, pacing 
- suicidal ideation 

- deep depression

- chills, shivers, teeth chattering, tremors even in warmth 

- burning sizzling skin 

- burning brain 

- tingling head

-needles in head

- hot flashes 

- shooting nerve pains on torso 

-  restless leg syndrome every night 

- teeth smashing down every night 

- white flash of light in corner of left eye

-blurred vision 

- nightmares that I can only take to my grave they are so sickening 

-  visual  hallucinations on waking 

- auditory hallucinations in night 

- phantom smells on waking 

 

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata is there any hope for me to stabilise again from this? I had thought my sertraline tapers were going ok because I was having these windows even though bad waves in between  but now it is a total crash and I think it could be worse than September/Oct last year when I downdosed to 8mg snd updosed back to 16mg. 

 

 is it possible the tapers have just caught up with me now? I don’t know how to make this process easier but ever get off this drug as I never really stabilised when I held before for all those months. 
 

I feel so disheartened 
 

 

[Altostrata]

Because the additional benzo seems to help, it appears to me that 3.5mg diazepam is not enough to mask your withdrawal symptoms. Since you decreased diazapam in August, it's very possible you would feel the full effect of the reduction until some time in September. That's my best guess -- how about increasing diazepam to 4mg per day? That's not a lot of diazepam.

[Kernol]

Thanks @Altostrata I will try increasing the diazepam Although I think at this intensity of withdrawal from sertraline I might need more than 4mg to mask any of it as 1mg lorazepam was only muting it down a bit and that’s a lot stronger. 

[Altostrata]

Your record shows you were doing better in August on more diazepam. Indications are your symptoms may be benzo withdrawal from the crossover from lorazepam to diazepam in early 2019.

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata I don’t know - everything in me feels this is sertraline withdrawal. It seems to me when I went beneath 25 mg in August last year that is when things got much worse and now again on tapering it has destabilised again - I just can’t seem to get off these lower doses. 
 

I know I can’t be certain but I just feel it in my gut.

 

where do I go from here if it’s the sertraline as I suspect? 

[Altostrata]

I don't know how you would isolate sertraline from lorazepam withdrawal. You could have both.

 

Please update your signature with 2020 events.

[Kernol]

Hi @Altostrata thanks I have updated it now. Yes I could have both of course although I have done much more tapering of the sertraline in recent months than the diazepam. I don’t know if just feels v much like sertraline as there are some hallmark symptoms like the burning skin, chills, night terrors which I had when I first came off in Oct  2018 and I wasn’t taking a Benzo then  

 

I think I may have just gone too quickly on the sertraline taper and destabilised myself Yet again?  I hope things will lessen in intensity again 

[Altostrata]

Did you increase diazepam to 4.25mg?