Daisygirlsk: I'm at a total loss and desperate

[Shep]

Thanks for posting this, Daisy. You may want to add some epsom salts into your bedtime bath. Epsom salts contain magnesium, which is calming. You can even add in some lavender oil. 

 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

Ok should I skip the mag glycinate then for now and just do the baths? Dont want to overdo it. I find heat really helps the akathisia 

[Shep]

The only reason I mentioned the magnesium as problematic was because you introduced it at the same time you made a benzo timing change.

 

Later, once you're done making drug changes, if you feel a small amount of magnesium is helpful, it's one of the only two supplements we recommend (fish oil is the other).

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

One supplement at a time and at a small dose is the recommended way of introducing these. 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

Should I wait a few days after drug changes to try supplements or is there a general rule of thumb?

[Daisygirlsk]

Dec 23 2020

5am - woke up to teach. Choppy sleep

530 - 7 - teaching. Felt relatively well with just some intrusive thoughts. Did not have feelings of akathisia or panic. 

730 - laid back down in bed. Took .25mg ativan. Fell asleep off and on.

1030 - went to doctor.

11 - came home. Tired but ok. Fell asleep off and on until 130. Amazed I could sleep. 

3pm - started feeling akathisia symptoms in legs and dpdr. Drank a double chamomile tea

4pm - calming down.

530 - ate supper. Legs vibrating. Feel tired but wired. Feelings of akathisia 

7pm - ate 1tsp of turmeric in some yogurt and body stopped vibrating for two hours. Spent all evening on the phone. 

11pm - starting to feel quite anxious. 

1115pm - calming down. 

1130pm - took 0.75mg ativan 

[Daisygirlsk]

I had the best sleep I've had in at least a week last night so very grateful for that

[Shep]

15 minutes ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I had the best sleep I've had in at least a week last night so very grateful for that

 

Very glad to read this, Daisy. Did you reduce the Ativan yet or is this at the full dose? 

 

23 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

Should I wait a few days after drug changes to try supplements or is there a general rule of thumb?

 

Again, this is our recommendation:

 

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

 

On 6/27/2014 at 8:00 PM, Altostrata said:

Introducing a drug or supplement or changing a dosage very gradually gives you the ability to sample how it might affect you before you go too far. ALWAYS WAIT TO SEE THE RESULT OF A CHANGE BEFORE DECIDING WHAT TO DO NEXT. For many drugs, it takes 1-4 weeks to see the full effect of a change.
 

 

You just added in turmeric, so I'm not sure there's anything I can say to keep you from continuing to change your drugs or add in supplements. Do the best you can. 

 

[Daisygirlsk]

Turmeric is a supplement?  I had no idea. I just added it to food like a spice.  

[Shep]

Just now, Daisygirlsk said:

Turmeric is a supplement?  I had no idea. I just added it to food like a spice.  

 

Please see:

 

Curcumin or turmeric

 

Since you're not listing what you eat, if you thought it was just a spice and no different than food, why make a point of listing it in your journal? 

 

I'm not trying to argue with you, but simply understand. 

[Daisygirlsk]

I read in a thread alto saying that turmeric and ginger are fine to consume in withdrawal. 

[Daisygirlsk]

Someone had recommended it to me to reduce brain inflammation (she is also in withdrawal), so I thought it was important to mention in case it did for some reason affect later symptoms. That's the only reason I listed it.

[Shep]

9 minutes ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I read in a thread alto saying that turmeric and ginger are fine to consume in withdrawal. 

 

There's context - if you're in the midst of making other changes, then you don't want to add in anything new that could affect the results of the previous changes. If you're working with a staff member who has repeatedly gone out of her way to ask you to stop making changes in order to assess where you are, then adding in something complicates your narrative. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, Shep said:

Very glad to read this, Daisy. Did you reduce the Ativan yet or is this at the full dose? 

 

Please answer this question. 

[Daisygirlsk]

No I will start reducing it today

[Shep]

Okay. Let us know how you do. 

[Daisygirlsk]

Will do thank you

[Altostrata]

On 12/24/2020 at 4:00 AM, Daisygirlsk said:

I had the best sleep I've had in at least a week last night so very grateful for that

 

What is your current regimen? If this is working, I'd stick with it.

[Daisygirlsk]

My pattern seems to be that when I wake up at 5am to teach I feel quite well. From the evening ativan still? I've been splitting my ativan doses .75 at night and .25 in morning. I do want to taper ativan as I ultimately dont want to be on a benzo. I do decently well during afternoon. My symptoms always get the most severe at suppertime and early evening without fail. I'm not sure why that is but my sleep is slowly getting better so that helps a lot.

[Daisygirlsk]

Positive update:

Had a good sleep last night for once. Only jolted awake one time whereas up until now it was every half hour all night. I actually semi enjoyed my family christmas. Akathisia did not start brewing until around 6pm. Even then it was fleeting. Around 830pm I again started getting those horrible adrenaline surges and what feels like I'm being electrocuted. Bugs crawling on my legs. Intense suicidal urges. Tinnitus. But that also settled a lot after about half hour. And I havent even taken my evening ativan yet

 

[manymoretodays]

Oh Daisy, that's a really good update.  I'm so glad to hear some improvement.

 

Merry Christmas!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Daisygirlsk]

Thank you Merry Christmas!

[Shep]

13 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

My symptoms always get the most severe at suppertime and early evening without fail. I'm not sure why that is but my sleep is slowly getting better so that helps a lot.

 

You may be getting some interdose withdrawal as the morning Ativan leaves your system by the evening. 

 

Some people find they need to dose Ativan several times a day due to its short half life, so if it does get worse, you may want to divide up your Ativan from twice-a-day dosing to three times. 

 

5 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

Positive update:

Had a good sleep last night for once. Only jolted awake one time whereas up until now it was every half hour all night. I actually semi enjoyed my family christmas. Akathisia did not start brewing until around 6pm. Even then it was fleeting. Around 830pm I again started getting those horrible adrenaline surges and what feels like I'm being electrocuted. Bugs crawling on my legs. Intense suicidal urges. Tinnitus. But that also settled a lot after about half hour. And I havent even taken my evening ativan yet

 

 

It sounds like you may be stabilizing.

 

Instead of trying to rapid taper off Ativan to beat dependency, you  may want to continue taking it for the next several weeks. And then when you're a lot more stable, come off it using a very slow micro-taper. 

[Daisygirlsk]

I was thinking the same thing. I assume benzos are similar as antidepressants for tapering or no?

[Daisygirlsk]

Would a microtaper be 5%?

[Shep]

14 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

I was thinking the same thing. I assume benzos are similar as antidepressants for tapering or no?

 

Yes, they are very similar. I posted some research comparing them in this post here:

 

Which is more difficult to withdraw - ssri vs. benzo?

 

13 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

Would a microtaper be 5%?

 

Or even less than that. You can go as slow as your symptoms allow so you can have as functional a life as possible. 

 

Ativan comes in a prescription liquid that's concentrated, so you add it to water in order to micro-taper. That's one option for tapering. 

 

But I would wait several weeks to even attempt to taper. 

[Daisygirlsk]

The last two evenings I have felt 80% normal. Today I was in a wave triggered by a stressful conversation. I really feel like i am stabilizing on the ativan. I am scared of tapering benzos as i know the withdrawal can be totally brutal. What is a good timeline for me to stabilize and then start tapering? Should i wait a few weeks? Months? Thanks in advance.

[Shep]

4 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

What is a good timeline for me to stabilize and then start tapering? Should i wait a few weeks? Months? Thanks in advance.

 

Yes, at least a few weeks, possibly longer. 

 

Now is the time to really work on the non-drug coping skills. Also, since you're a teacher, if you don't have to work during the summer, you may want to target your taper according to your work schedule. 

[Daisygirlsk]

Ok thank you. Maybe a weird question but my doctor is so hesitant to prescribe benzos longer than a month. Is there a way to ensure I get them long enough to taper properly? I know most doctors dont believe its necessary to taper slowly and I am a bit nervous. 

[Shep]

You may want to find another doctor if your current doctor isn't agreeable to a long taper. Please see:

 

Recommended doctors, therapists, and clinics

 

You may also want to read the Canadian members' thread to see if there are any recommendations and if not, post to see if anyone can recommend a doctor: 

 

Canada members, please check in here

 

The FDA recently updated its guidelines for benzos. I posted about it here:

 

FDA requiring Boxed Warning updated to improve safe use of benzodiazepine drug class

 

You may want to print that out and show it to your doctor.

 

For tips on talking to doctors, please see:

 

How to talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal? What to expect?

 

[Daisygirlsk]

Thank you!

[Daisygirlsk]

One more question...since I'm stabilizing on ativan is this just masking the symptoms of akathisia and it will come back full force while tapering the benzo? Is it best to start tapering now? I honestly dont want to make any more mistakes 

[Shep]

15 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

One more question...since I'm stabilizing on ativan is this just masking the symptoms of akathisia and it will come back full force while tapering the benzo?

 

Yes, the benzo is masking the akathisia. That's why you started taking it. But the antidepressant withdrawal will get less intense over time. 

 

15 hours ago, Daisygirlsk said:

Is it best to start tapering now?

 

Please re-read your thread. 

[Daisygirlsk]

I'm so sorry to keep posting about this. I had really wanted to stop the benzo after one week use. I have now been using for two weeks. I really would much rather not be on a benzo and have to taper over months. I am so very afraid of having to now go through benzo withdrawal on top of antidepressant withdrawal. Could I do a 25% taper at this point and be off in 4 days or is that just a horrible idea?

[Daisygirlsk]

Dec 31 2020

2am - went to bed 

5am - woke up to teach. Only had one class so went back to bed at 6am and slept well until 10am.

10am - started feeling akathisia in legs

11am - took 0.25mg ativan

11:15am - went and laid down in moms bed and fell asleep again until 1230

Felt full body electricity all afternoon and some pretty intense anxiety

530pm - took 0.25mg ativan 

Felt very keyed up, tense, anxious, full body vibrations all evening despite trying to distract by talking to friends.

9pm - feel very afraid of building a tolerance to benzos, having the akathisia break through even on the ativan, have to do a long taper despite continuing akathisia, and then going through full benzo withdrawal once off..I want to be off now because I am so afraid.

11pm- .50 mg ativan

[Daisygirlsk]

I feel like my akathisia is getting so much worse as each dose of ativan wears off

[Daisygirlsk]

I keep reading about people having benzo withdrawal for years even after a slow taper. I've already been in adwd for almost 3 years. Beyond terrified 

[Daisygirlsk]

Will I just prolong my misery by staying on ativan? I'm just in a panic over this